Who wants to settle a friendly domestic debate?

[runningmom]

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So I have 5 LORs - 2 from physicians (one MD, one DO both of whom I've shadowed and one is also my volunteer supervisor), 2 from profs (1 from my master's degree- management/non-science, the other from my A&PII prof), and 1 from my military reserve boss.

I'm debating asking for one or two more - though I've heard I'm starting to press the bounds of obnoxious once I enter the 6-7 LORs realm.

So with all that background - which would you recommend:

(A) Leave things be.
(B) Ask my calculus prof from undergrad - though he hasn't taught me in 12 years.
(C) Get one from my former military boss (he is active duty not reserve, higher rank, I'm sure would write a great rec)
(D) B and C above

Hubby says I should ask the military guy - I'm worried that I'm millitary heavy already since my Master's prof and both physicians are military in addition to my reserve boss (so 4 of 5). If I ask the undergrad prof, he won't remember me, so all he'll be able to say is that I took his courses (3 honors engineering calc courses) and got good grades. Obviously I can give him more background about what I've done for the last 12 years, but his basis for a recommendation is only those three courses.

Thoughts?

 

[FDoRoML]

Depends on where you're applying. Some schools require TWO letters from science professors who have taught you. Instead of calc, could you get another science prof? I know math kind counts (BCPM and all), but I think they may prefer science. If the schools you're interested in don't require it, don't even bother with the UG calc prof... it would not be likely to be a strong letter anyway.

I don't know if I hold any kind of record... but I had a crapload of LORs and made sure they were ranked from strongest to weakest (keep in mind many AdComs or interviewers might only glance through the first 1-2).

-Tenured faculty member with whom I collaborate on independent research projects (neuroanatomy)
-My PI of 8 years (neuroscience)
-An MD neurotologist I shadowed for a year
-An MD internist I shadowed for 8 months
-A Prof who taught me 2 science courses in my masters prog
-A Prof who taught me 1 lab course in my masters prog
-A Prof who taught me 2 business courses in my masters prog
(can you see a theme here-- it's been over 10 years since I was a UG... so that wasn't even a viable option for me!)
-A professional artist who connected me with organizations for whom I created paintings for charity
-The chair of my department

Oh, yeah... and for the DO schools where I applied:
-A DO orthopoed I shadowed for 3 months

So, no, as a non-trad you may be delving into the obnoxious, but it's really important to create a clear picture of your many facets. Big point here is, sure, go for the other military-related letter. Especially if it will be strong.

Keep in mind you'd like to have letters addressing or emphasizing different things...
1. physicians to discuss your professionalism, your relatability with patients, your general competence and personality, your aptitude for various aspects of medicine, etc. Ideally they would even step forward and say they'd like to have you as their personal physician.
2. profs who have taught you to discuss your performance as a student and your scholastic aptitude and attitude as they perceive it.
3. supervisors to discuss your work ethic, other facets of your personality like ability to handle complex tasks, multi-tasking, reliability, stability, management skills, etc. There's a special category in here for research supervisors if you did research-- they'd add your scientific/research aptitude and independent thinking ability skills to the mix.
4. any people who know and/or supervised your volunteer experiences to discuss your service, humanism, selflessness, etc.

So, I guess I kinda just said your hubby is right? Argh. My bad. 😀

Any questions... just PM any time.


FD

 

[runningmom]

Depends on where you're applying. Some schools require TWO letters from science professors who have taught you. Instead of calc, could you get another science prof?

Unfortunately, I am out of ideas on *HOW* to get another science prof LOR. My most recent course (the one I got the LOR from) was taken solely so I could GET a recommendation from a course that wasn't 10-12 yrs old. I finished most of my pre-reqs in college (1996 ChemE major) and the other biology courses were done at community college 6 yrs ago. The instructor I had for bio there has retired and no one at that college seems to know how to get ahold of her. So I'm stuck with either old science courses or another non-science from my masters. I'm taking biochem in the fall (because my first choice in state school ADDED IT for the 2007 app cycle!!! ARGHH!) - but that isn't soon enough for an LOR unless I get put on wait lists or want to beef up my "letter of intent" later.

Maybe I could hang a sign on my neck saying "Will Work for Science LOR" and stand on the street corner?

 

[samenewme]

Unfortunately, I am out of ideas on *HOW* to get another science prof LOR. My most recent course (the one I got the LOR from) was taken solely so I could GET a recommendation from a course that wasn't 10-12 yrs old. I finished most of my pre-reqs in college (1996 ChemE major) and the other biology courses were done at community college 6 yrs ago. The instructor I had for bio there has retired and no one at that college seems to know how to get ahold of her. So I'm stuck with either old science courses or another non-science from my masters. I'm taking biochem in the fall (because my first choice in state school ADDED IT for the 2007 app cycle!!! ARGHH!) - but that isn't soon enough for an LOR unless I get put on wait lists or want to beef up my "letter of intent" later.

Maybe I could hang a sign on my neck saying "Will Work for Science LOR" and stand on the street corner?

How many of the schools you're applying to DO require two science LORs? Mine didn't. Don't borrow trouble--check it out. This problem may not even apply to you!

If it does, work with the calc prof and send a big fat resume and personal statement so you can check off the Science/math box, as long as math counts for those schools that want the two science letters.

 

[notdeadyet]

If it does, work with the calc prof and send a big fat resume and personal statement so you can check off the Science/math box, as long as math counts for those schools that want the two science letters.

Math LOR do not qualify as Science prof LOR.

On the upside, OP, many schools that are nontrad friendly give some leeway to folks who've been out of school for a number of years. I was in a similar position (solved by a postbac) and was told that it shouldn't be a problem if you have a reasonable excuse.

One workaround as well is to have the instructor for the lab component of your science class write a LOR, if you had one.

 

[mdadmit]

Hello! I am a former Harvard premed advisor and current Stanford resident and thought I could lend some help.

I'd like to offer an option "E." I would obtain the military letter from the higher ranking official and swap that out for the military reserve boss. That way you have 5 recs (which I would argue is the upper limit). It looks like you already have one science and one humanities rec so that's great. I would NOT go back and ask an undergrad prof at this point because, as you say, they will not remember you. It's always better to have a glowing rec from someone who really knows you well than two lines from a famous prof. The only reason to do this is if 2 science recs are absolutely required by the school - check on it before going through all the hassle. And some schools will take math as a science but you have to ask specifically.

As for the military question. Since you are in the military, one can only expect the majority of recs to be from military personnel. Don't sweat it.

Hope that helps,

mdadmit

So I have 5 LORs - 2 from physicians (one MD, one DO both of whom I've shadowed and one is also my volunteer supervisor), 2 from profs (1 from my master's degree- management/non-science, the other from my A&PII prof), and 1 from my military reserve boss.

I'm debating asking for one or two more - though I've heard I'm starting to press the bounds of obnoxious once I enter the 6-7 LORs realm.

So with all that background - which would you recommend:

(A) Leave things be.
(B) Ask my calculus prof from undergrad - though he hasn't taught me in 12 years.
(C) Get one from my former military boss (he is active duty not reserve, higher rank, I'm sure would write a great rec)
(D) B and C above

Hubby says I should ask the military guy - I'm worried that I'm millitary heavy already since my Master's prof and both physicians are military in addition to my reserve boss (so 4 of 5). If I ask the undergrad prof, he won't remember me, so all he'll be able to say is that I took his courses (3 honors engineering calc courses) and got good grades. Obviously I can give him more background about what I've done for the last 12 years, but his basis for a recommendation is only those three courses.

Thoughts?

 

[runningmom]

Thanks for all the advice. Looks like the group consensus is: go with the military boss and probably use that one more liberally than the other one. Since they all goto Interfolio, I can pick and choose which get sent where.

I'm still not certain how to find out if a school requires 2 science profs. Most of their websites don't post it, there is nothing in MSARs. I've called a few admin offices and gotten less than certain responses. One of the schools I'm applying to specifically says it *does* require 2 science and 1 non-science on their website, but then when I asked the question directly of the admin director, I was told given my "non-trad" history, only one prof (science preferred) was required. So go figure.

So now the only problem is: I have to utter those dreaded words: "Honey, you were right."