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WildMed16

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So my fairly prestigious, well established Med school in the northeast decided today to email the AOA candidates of my third year class (top 25 percent) to invite them to apply. In doing so, they attached a spreadsheet that was supposed to have class information about the top candidates regarding their academic performance. What they failed to realize was that another tab in the spreadsheet contained the class ranking for every single individual in my class. Oops

So it turns out I'm not in the top 25 percent; and I'm OK with that. What I'm not OK with is the fact that what should be confidential information became very accessible to every one of my peers. Imagine how the bottom person must feel.

I'm not sure how to proceed regarding this matter. I feel like the administration F'd up fairly decently on this one.

How would you feel if you are in the bottom half of the class and that became public knowledge today? Suck it up or make a stink about it? Thoughts?
 
I'd just let it blow over. It's unfortunate, but since the info is already out there they can't do anything other than apologize.
 
That sucks, but at least everyone is suffering together (albeit that suffering is weighted by academic performance).

There's only 3 things a med school can do for you: give you an MD, charge you less money to give you an MD, and help you get a good residency. If you don't think you can get one of those out of this situation, I'd just let it go.
 
I'd just let it blow over. It's unfortunate, but since the info is already out there they can't do anything other than apologize.

Yup. That's probably what I'll end up doing. Fortunately, in my class one doesn't have to wait too long before everyone is bitching and moaning about even the most minor offenses i.e. I'll let someone else do the crying. It's a class syndrome which is probably common to many med school classes. In this case, I believe this is a fairly decent sized offense, so it shouldn't take too long.

As stated above, the info is out there. Can't do a damn thing about it - Just sulk today I guess.
 
Just curious... how many folks out there actually know classmates' class ranks?
I didn't think schools typically posted them, but I could be wrong...
 
This is illegal under FERPA and a serious mess up by the school. Someone will probably lose their job over this. Not sure if there is any way to get a financial award as a student, but there should be.
 
Just curious... how many folks out there actually know classmates' class ranks?
I didn't think schools typically posted them, but I could be wrong...

I've never heard of a school publishing class ranks. By the end of third year though you'll probably be able to peg someone into either top, bottom, or in-between.
 
So the plot thickens...

Today multiple emails were sent out to the AOA candidates regarding the release of the class ranking spreadsheet. The first email asked everyone to please disregard the email sent yesterday and delete any attachments that had come with it. The second email says that anyone who shares the spreadsheet is in direct violation of the honor code. Therefore, delete it now. Shadily enough, none of these emails were sent out to the non-recipients (myself) who are already irate about this happening.

I just got home and sitting in my email box is a class wide email from our dean explaining the situation and profusely apologizing. I'm honestly getting more and more pissed about this situation.

This is like a bank accidentally emailing out all the credit card numbers for their clients and then asking them to disregard the email; or a doctor's office emailing all the patients in that practice with confidential health info for every single one of the patients that the doctor has seen, and then saying, "oops." Can't undo that knowledge. Makes you feel a little self aware now when talking with folks who have definitely seen that email. Pretty big F up IMO. I feel like some repercussions could be on the horizon...

This sucks. /end rant
 
The second email says that anyone who shares the spreadsheet is in direct violation of the honor code.
Classic administration BS, right there. "We screwed the pooch, so it's your fault and your problem." Cute.
 
Classic administration BS, right there. "We screwed the pooch, so it's your fault and your problem." Cute.

Agreed. "Here's all this wonderfully personal info. My bad. But don't look at it, cause we'll expel you if you do."
 
Well, by definition, exactly half of your class is in the "bottom half." In medical school, where most people are over-achievers and smart anyway, being in the bottom half is not necessarily a sign of failure or doing poorly. In my class the separation between quartiles is extremely small and essentially boils down to a couple of questions per exam, almost.

Should that info have been made public to all? I guess not, it wasn't necessarily a nice thing to do. Is it a huge grievous offense which should cost someone their job? No. It's not THAT big a deal.

Listen, in general, the most competitive people in medical school are usually the top tier students (for good reason), because many of them are fighting it out for specialties that are difficult to attain and have few spots. The crew in the upper ranks duking it out for derm/plastics/radonc/ophtho/ent will be at each other's throats constantly, gunning dirty. It's a minority of the class. If you're in the bottom half, chances are you're not competing for these anyway. Amongst people applying to more attainable, "normal" specialties, no one really gives a damn what your class rank is. Less competition = people care less.

Besides, you'd be surprised how accurately most of your classmates can estimate each other's rank to the quartile by the end of third year anyway. Everyone knows who the top dogs are, and everyone has some great, dead-on guesses about who makes up the bottom of the barrel. It's not a HUGE mystery.
 
So my fairly prestigious, well established Med school in the northeast decided today to email the AOA candidates of my third year class (top 25 percent) to invite them to apply. In doing so, they attached a spreadsheet that was supposed to have class information about the top candidates regarding their academic performance. What they failed to realize was that another tab in the spreadsheet contained the class ranking for every single individual in my class. Oops

So it turns out I'm not in the top 25 percent; and I'm OK with that. What I'm not OK with is the fact that what should be confidential information became very accessible to every one of my peers. Imagine how the bottom person must feel.

I'm not sure how to proceed regarding this matter. I feel like the administration F'd up fairly decently on this one.

How would you feel if you are in the bottom half of the class and that became public knowledge today? Suck it up or make a stink about it? Thoughts?

This is nuts. As hard as you will all try to look beyond whatever you saw on the spreadsheet, this forever affects how you and your classmates will look at each other. It's bad enough when people wear their test scores and grades on their sleeves (slyly inserting their stats into conversation). I personally HATE discussing grades and such - and avoided it as much as possible. I was "that guy" who usually sat there in the room silent and uncomfortable when my classmates would complain about unfair grading in previous classes or rotations. Secrecy was a great policy, because then no one knew whether I was getting creamed (moments in MS1) or hitting it out of the park (MS3).

Whomever sent the attachment out to your class was probably looking for a way to get fired from the job.
 
Should that info have been made public to all? I guess not, it wasn't necessarily a nice thing to do. Is it a huge grievous offense which should cost someone their job? No. It's not THAT big a deal.

Easier said than experienced. No, I don't feel like my social security number was released to the world for all to feast on, nor do I feel like my genetic profile was disclosed to my insurance company. I do, however, think that a breach of trust has occurred. When I sign my honor code and agree to uphold the values of my university, I believe that there should be a two way agreement, and that the university should also uphold its own values. When failure to uphold such standards occurs, there should be repercussions. Compared to law schools, I don't think class rank is such a big deal in overall ability to attain future employment. Even the last student on the class ranking list at an allopathic medical school will attain some form of employment. With that said, I do think that there are a handful of harmful effects that occur when those numbers become public knowledge.

Besides, you'd be surprised how accurately most of your classmates can estimate each other's rank to the quartile by the end of third year anyway. Everyone knows who the top dogs are, and everyone has some great, dead-on guesses about who makes up the bottom of the barrel. It's not a HUGE mystery.

This is definitely true. The people who are harmed most by this are the people at the bottom of the list. As I stated above, I don't think this necessarily prevents them in the long term from attaining a successful career in medicine. But I do think that there are enough stressors involved in 3rd year to begin with that we shouldn't have to deal with some ******* who couldn't figure out how to carefully handle potentially harmful information. It's aggravating and I think many folks here would feel similarly if their numbers had been posted for everyone to see. It doesn't happen at any grad school that I know of, and it kills the collaborative environment that the pass/fail grading system tries to facilitate in modern day medical education.
 
This is nuts. As hard as you will all try to look beyond whatever you saw on the spreadsheet, this forever affects how you and your classmates will look at each other. It's bad enough when people wear their test scores and grades on their sleeves (slyly inserting their stats into conversation). I personally HATE discussing grades and such - and avoided it as much as possible. I was "that guy" who usually sat there in the room silent and uncomfortable when my classmates would complain about unfair grading in previous classes or rotations. Secrecy was a great policy, because then no one knew whether I was getting creamed (moments in MS1) or hitting it out of the park (MS3).

Whomever sent the attachment out to your class was probably looking for a way to get fired from the job.

Exactly! Thanks for actually seeing this for what it is
 
Well, by definition, exactly half of your class is in the "bottom half." In medical school, where most people are over-achievers and smart anyway, being in the bottom half is not necessarily a sign of failure or doing poorly. In my class the separation between quartiles is extremely small and essentially boils down to a couple of questions per exam, almost.

Should that info have been made public to all? I guess not, it wasn't necessarily a nice thing to do. Is it a huge grievous offense which should cost someone their job? No. It's not THAT big a deal.

Listen, in general, the most competitive people in medical school are usually the top tier students (for good reason), because many of them are fighting it out for specialties that are difficult to attain and have few spots. The crew in the upper ranks duking it out for derm/plastics/radonc/ophtho/ent will be at each other's throats constantly, gunning dirty. It's a minority of the class. If you're in the bottom half, chances are you're not competing for these anyway. Amongst people applying to more attainable, "normal" specialties, no one really gives a damn what your class rank is. Less competition = people care less.

Besides, you'd be surprised how accurately most of your classmates can estimate each other's rank to the quartile by the end of third year anyway. Everyone knows who the top dogs are, and everyone has some great, dead-on guesses about who makes up the bottom of the barrel. It's not a HUGE mystery.

Oh I see. The name of the game is to say something stupid. Like something that demonstrates that one has no life experience. OK Ill give it a shot: Looks dont matter. People will judge you for your inner beauty.

How'd I do?
 
Allow me to summarize:

Did the administration screw the pooch? Yup

Are people seriously harmed? Can't say. Most will probably be fine, some will be upset

Was it toolish of the administration to threaten honor code violations for their screw up: Yup

Is there anything you can do about it? Nope.

Let it slide, life goes on.
 
They definitely messed up but unless you have douches that won't shut up about it/let it go then it should blow over.

Like other posters said people can usually guess right the general area someone's class rank is.

If someone judges you b/c of your class rank then you really shouldn't care what they think
 
Allow me to summarize:

Did the administration screw the pooch? Yup

Are people seriously harmed? Can't say. Most will probably be fine, some will be upset

Was it toolish of the administration to threaten honor code violations for their screw up: Yup

Is there anything you can do about it? Nope.

Let it slide, life goes on.

There is one thing you can do about it: report it to the feds. FERPA violations are serious, and the school can lose its federal financial aid and grants if they have multiple violations.
 
So my fairly prestigious, well established Med school in the northeast decided today to email the AOA candidates of my third year class (top 25 percent) to invite them to apply. In doing so, they attached a spreadsheet that was supposed to have class information about the top candidates regarding their academic performance. What they failed to realize was that another tab in the spreadsheet contained the class ranking for every single individual in my class. Oops

So it turns out I'm not in the top 25 percent; and I'm OK with that. What I'm not OK with is the fact that what should be confidential information became very accessible to every one of my peers. Imagine how the bottom person must feel.

I'm not sure how to proceed regarding this matter. I feel like the administration F'd up fairly decently on this one.

How would you feel if you are in the bottom half of the class and that became public knowledge today? Suck it up or make a stink about it? Thoughts?

Yeah it sucks, but your class rank will have little/nothing to do with how good of a physician you will eventually be. Let it blow over.
 
There is one thing you can do about it: report it to the feds. FERPA violations are serious, and the school can lose its federal financial aid and grants if they have multiple violations.
Uh...and you'd want to make that happen to a school you attended why? 😕
 
No updates today. Looks like things will most likely just blow over with this royal screw up

They definitely messed up but unless you have douches that won't shut up about it/let it go then it should blow over.

Trust me, there's most definitely enough douches in my classes who will cry for some time to come about this.

There is one thing you can do about it: report it to the feds. FERPA violations are serious, and the school can lose its federal financial aid and grants if they have multiple violations.

As a private institution, I have a hard time believing that my university receives that much federal aid. I could be totally wrong on that, but that's my guess.

Yeah it sucks, but your class rank will have little/nothing to do with how good of a physician you will eventually be. Let it blow over.

This goes without saying. The point of this thread was to vent about something that pissed me off. No, it doesn't make that much of a difference, but being more towards the bottom of that list, I feel slightly more self conscious talking to folks at the top who I know have seen it. The truth is that the list is 6 months old at this point. It doesn't include any clinical evals from 3rd year, so there are most likely some big changes. Regardless, there's a lot of ego involved in med school; everyone has worked their butts off to get there. I am far from a gunner and I've been very average so far as a med student. With that said, something like this was completely preventable and totally unnecessary. It shows lack of care in handling personal information, and I think that's something that all health care professionals have to take seriously.

Uh...and you'd want to make that happen to a school you attended why? 😕

I agree. Definitely have no intention of biting the hand that feeds me my MD. Not worth the trouble for something that has ultimately been an ego buster, and not much else. Nonetheless, I think it will have a lasting impact in some way or another.
 
Uh...and you'd want to make that happen to a school you attended why? 😕

You probably wouldn't, but if they are careless with information that is the penalty. It's a way to make them take the problem seriously. Keep in mind that this wouldn't happen with the first violation. Rather, they would probably receive a nasty letter from the government, maybe an investigative visit. It would be an excellent motivator to make the policy and personnel changes necessary to ensure that this doesn't happen again.
 
You know, it's bad enough that your administration made a mistake, but the fact that they underhandedly tried to shuffle the consequences off on you guys (students) in general is the biggest sign of doucheyness that there is. Rage on dude, because if I were in that position, forget angry, I would be turning green and becoming huge. That kind of info is just as private as a medical record - aside from those who are allowed to see it, it's for your eyes only.

I'm really sorry this had to happen to you. Unfortunately the way the world works, like it or not, people judge the hell out of each other, and this is just providing fodder.
 
That's really beat. You all deserve apologies from the entire faculty. Someone should lose their job. I hope something good comes of this. Use this as an excuse to do something nice for yourself.

-C.J.
 
You know, it's bad enough that your administration made a mistake, but the fact that they underhandedly tried to shuffle the consequences off on you guys (students) in general is the biggest sign of doucheyness that there is. Rage on dude, because if I were in that position, forget angry, I would be turning green and becoming huge. That kind of info is just as private as a medical record - aside from those who are allowed to see it, it's for your eyes only.

I'm really sorry this had to happen to you. Unfortunately the way the world works, like it or not, people judge the hell out of each other, and this is just providing fodder.

And just when I was starting to find peace with this situation, the thread gets bumped back up 😉

I definitely agree with your sentiment, Arc, especially the Hulk coming alive! It's weird, but I feel like it's been a pervasive thing this week. On my current rotation, I work with three other students. We've all discussed this issue ad nauseum. We get together with everyone on the rotation (about 25 students total) once a week for didactics. Nobody mentioned a thing this past week about the email. Not sure if it's becoming a little taboo to discuss, but it certainly crossed my mind a few times throughout the afternoon.

I think this whole issue strikes a note in many of us about the modern paradigm of medical education. The A,B,C system has been replaced by the Honors, High Pass, Pass system. They are one and the same, and are only used to differentiate people from those who have done well and those who have done really well. I would argue that the system is unnecessary. Some of the top business schools in the country such as Stanford and Harvard have largely eliminated those systems because they acknowledge that if you're good enough to get into the school, then you don't need to be consistently competitive with each other. There needs to be a cooperative environment, as 90% of medical specialties require a team environment that thrives when everyone is jiving together.

By third and fourth year, I strongly believe that the Honors, High Pass (Excellent), and Pass system are even more flawed. I don't know a single person who isn't busting his or her butt right now in their clinical rotations. EVERYONE is trying their best for the patient and for themselves. With that said, what seems to make the difference in making that cut from HP to Honors is not necessarily a better skill set or knowledge base, but more of a strong personality and an ability to do or say the right thing at the right time. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE third year and it's great to be out of the lecture hall and into the hospitals. What I don't like about third year is the fact that I feel like I'm always being graded, and there is an unspoken, unacknowledged competition with peers to make that next cut from HP to Honors.

As for this ranking list email, there hasn't been a single word from the administration this past week. They are largely trying to let it blow over. The rumor is that they are tracking who has emailed that list around. I'm not even sure that's possible, but what do I know? I'm basically willing to just let it go, as I lack the time and energy right now to really make a big stink about it. Ultimately, that list never should've existed in the first place.
 
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