Whose side are you on? BMB or 5 minutes?

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I think it's cyclical.

I won't deny that I'm really glad I graduated in 2009, but I'm pretty sure things will upswing in a few years.
 
Don't take my word for it. Find it out youself. Talk to recent graduates. Create a pharmacist resume and apply to an area where you want to live and see if you get any reply. I know some people don't like my style but this is something you can verify yourself. There are plently of articles on the saturation. Here are a few:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...rning-out-too-many-grads/stories/201310270094
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/overdose-pharmacy-students

Also, take a look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) on pharmacist job outlook. Its 10 year projection went from 25% to 14% in just 2 years!

2012: http://money.cnn.com/pf/best-jobs/2012/snapshots/86.html
2014: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm

Meanwhile, the number of new graduates continue to grow and grow.
 
I'm on neither side. BMB makes really good posts about finances so I learn from those and can't think off hand about 5mintes' posts. I ignore the bickering posts and just appreciate the informative ones.
 
I will tell you what....I will quit pharmacy if you stopped going to the movie by yourself.
 
someone is bored this weekend no? not enough pharmacy hours for the topic creator? Maybe that supports bmb's position
 
Who cares? I've been paid for awhile and a have a nice stack so it doesn't affect me as much as a new graduate. If people want to go into a field that may be declining so be it. I'm not going to change anyones mind either way. I say the more new graduates the better 🙂
 
I didn't know I have so much power over the pharmacy world lol

You are giving me way more credit than I deserve. People are down because (1) they have 150-250 k in student loan debt; (2) they can't find full employment due to the saturation; (3) they hate what they do but they don't have any other option but to continue working.

These macro factors have nothing to do with me. This is like blaming the TV weather guy for the rain.
 
How about the ones who doubled their effort because they realized how bad it is out there? How about the ones who are working at two internships? How about the ones who are only borrowing the minimum student loan because they don't want to be in debt for the next 25 years?

How about the ones who decided to go into another profession because they realized pharmacy is no longer the same profession?

By your argument, we should stop discussing about the economy because it may make some people depress. It is a weak argument and more importantly, it doesn't change a damn thing.
 
I used to support 5min, thought it was cool that he was willing to lay it on the line and move to Alaska, enjoyed his pictures too. Ever since he moved though, not so much. Now he's just all about "I make $180k and BMB sucks." I don't the petty grudge thing he's got going.

BMB has solid financial advice, and offers a harsh view of the job market. Maybe he's overly pessimistic, but it's a good contrast to the professors preaching about fields of unicorns jobs (provider status, mtm, etc) for your entire graduating class of 250+ students. Yes, there are some opportunities, but they aren't gimmies. If I were a pre-pharm, I think BMB's posts would be much more valuable than a post by 5min.
 
In the limited context of this forum this argument appears to matter.

In reality it's two people disagreeing. They represent roughly 0.000000028384899% of the world population.
 
The poll should be asking who's grammar is worst... christ.
 
What happened to all of 5minutes' posts? They have been deleted. He has changed his SN to "whitesnows" LOL
 
It is cylical, the baby boomers will eventually retire and that's when we should start seeing the market shift back to high demand. However, we are producing pharmacists at a pretty fast pace now so perhaps it will shift back to a balanced market rather than how it was in the late 90s, early 2000s, so no BMW leases and $30k sign on bonuses. And automation will reduce the amount of positions available as well.

IMO, if you're good at networking and have connections at places, you'll have a job.
 
The job that I am doing now requires computer software experience. Without these experience, you will mostly be denied. In the current market, I have not come across many people who have the skills that I have. Therefore, I have job security. There is no doom and gloom for me personally.
 
Sparda29 said:
It is cylical, the baby boomers will eventually retire and that's when we should start seeing the market shift back to high demand. However, we are producing pharmacists at a pretty fast pace now so perhaps it will shift back to a balanced market rather than how it was in the late 90s, early 2000s, so no BMW leases and $30k sign on bonuses. And automation will reduce the amount of positions available as well.

IMO, if you're good at networking and have connections at places, you'll have a job.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this except seeing a shift back to high demand. It depends on the area of the US but I feel pretty confident that the job situation will continue to get worse with time because of new schools being built. Baby boomers will retire but not as soon as you'd think. A lot of older pharmacists want to keep working as much as possible to afford their lifestyle, spending, and fears of the stock market I guess.

I remember an earlier thread talking about how older pharmacists should have retired because if they stayed in the market they would've recovered their earnings and made more! I feel this is true but I think psychology of these older people were left out. I mean you're nearing retirement and it's practically wiped out and there's a huge sense of panic and no one knows what will happen next during 08-09 (in school then, didn't know what it meant to lose that much). You know you have a few years left so you delay retirement and try to recover that. Because of the stock market, you're uncertain and don't go back into it when you really should have. Middle-age pharmacists I know benefited greatly as they were younger, have years ahead of them, more job opportunities then, and can afford more risk. Those retiring can't afford to gamble. I mean is there anyone here who knows what it's like to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in like a month and be unable to touch or rescue that money? I imagine you'd be really scared to even think about the stock market. And then there's the older pharmacists who just enjoy working as well. So I wouldn't count on older pharmacists retiring and at most, it would bring a very short term increase in demand.

The sheer volume of graduates in new schools (there's new schools opening and current grads can't find work, where's the reasoning? NONE!) and expanding class sizes will increase saturation more. Year after year more grads I know are having incredible difficulty finding work, (it's a small amount but consistently growing). Also more are doing residencies or fellowships. We know residents are having a hard time finding work in most areas. Industry not too sure, heard talk of a bubble but it does have to come down at some point I feel. And mail order is killing a lot of stores. Rx volume is dropping. Obamacare helped to stave off some losses but not enough. Then there's automation. If there are jobs for new/recent grads, wages will have to fall too, I see ads on CL offering 30/hr now. Right NOW there are few jobs but you CAN find work NOW if you try real hard and network/connect well. But LATER (when?) network/connecting won't help as much but will still be important. And think that if there are new grads ready to replace you, there's less job stability and shorter careers.

I won't go w/the rhetoric on this board, I'm sure you guys are more pleasant in person but I can see where BMB is coming from based from what I've seen and where it's heading, especially w/new schools and older schools expanding class size (probably to compete, saturate, and outmuscle new schools or just more $$$). Repetition is boring but new users, pre-pharms who see it may start to question their decision (they're naive come on, not everyone knows the whole world by 18-20) and at least w/BMB constantly rambling and hopefully word of mouth, they can make a better informed decision than that garbage/misinformation from Yahoo or BLS.

Also agree w/5min that you can't always be pessimistic, but you do have to be realistic and that's not always easy for some. Reality is us newer grads have to accept the new job climate unless there's serious change, especially in pharmacy education. And it's not just pharmacy suffering but all professions. No grass is green these days for the near-long-term future. But being negative won't solve problems and sometimes you just have to accept and be happy w/what you've got and that means for many new grads now, means making less or not working where you want to. Don't get caught up thinking money and job prestige is everything. Money is important but not everything. I believe making more money and having a job not looked down on just means having to be a little less envious and feel a sense of superiority or validation that everything you do must always be right. But does it get you happiness? Most cases I'd say no and I don't think it's healthy to live a life obsessed about salary, job title or status. Just be humble, work hard, improve lives, keep an open mind, and enjoy it time to time.
 
As a current pharmacy student, I'm more inclined to believe in the rainbows and sunshine outlook. Reading BMB's posts taught me things may not be as advertised. 5mins posts tell me mobility and adaptability may be necessary for a breakthrough, then life can be good. From both of them I learned to never take things for granted and fight hard for the good life.

Why take sides when there is valid information from both? I find the whole drama quite amusing though. Pass me the beer and popcorn please.
 
Reirrac said:
As a current pharmacy student, I'm more inclined to believe in the rainbows and sunshine outlook. Reading BMB's posts taught me things may not be as advertised. 5mins posts tell me mobility and adaptability may be necessary for a breakthrough, then life can be good. From both of them I learned to never take things for granted and fight hard for the good life.

Why take sides when there is valid information from both? I find the whole drama quite amusing though. Pass me the beer and popcorn please.
Click to expand...
Do you believe in a person who have been there and done that or the person who sit on the internet all days? If anyone in this forum who is qualified for a tough life it will be me. Yet, these difficulties give me motivation to strive high and above people. I promise your life will be more interesting after you accomplish great things. I now make $100/hours and plus ton of OTs. Imagine how exciting I am! I know someone that will help me to get to a better pay job later. That can bring my salary above $250k easily. Wow, I love pharmacy. This is the only career I know that can help me to make that quick of the money in the shortest amount of time.
 
fewaopi said:
Also agree w/5min that you can't always be pessimistic, but you do have to be realistic and that's not always easy for some. Reality is us newer grads have to accept the new job climate unless there's serious change, especially in pharmacy education. And it's not just pharmacy suffering but all professions. No grass is green these days for the near-long-term future. But being negative won't solve problems and sometimes you just have to accept and be happy w/what you've got and that means for many new grads now, means making less or not working where you want to. Don't get caught up thinking money and job prestige is everything. Money is important but not everything. I believe making more money and having a job not looked down on just means having to be a little less envious and feel a sense of superiority or validation that everything you do must always be right. But does it get you happiness? Most cases I'd say no and I don't think it's healthy to live a life obsessed about salary, job title or status. Just be humble, work hard, improve lives, keep an open mind, and enjoy it time to time.
Click to expand...

Money is very important in this age in fact. Money answers all things. But I do agree with you that ultimate money won't make you happier. However, the US dollar can collapse anytime. The war may break out. Look at your horizon and see what is happening in the world. There is no doubt some major things gonna happen to the world. You are better to pay off your loan as soon as possible. Buy the house paid off if you can. Then, you will be in a much better shape compared to the rest of the world. Plus, being a pharmacist you are more likely valued by the world in the coming turmoil time. When healthcare is needed even more when war breaks out. I suspect healthcare demand will spike up when all of these things happen. Buckle up yourself, sharpen your skills and wait for the opportunity. I am doing just that. In stead of letting depression rule your life, stand up and be courage to change the world. You can change your life, but first you must know there is no room for depression, there is no time for it. You either act now or it will be too late. Mark my words! You see I have passed the depression time. I am on the next level of courages. I can do all things. I am determined to strive high and above all things. So today, you either let depression rule your life, or be courage , stand up and pass thru these difficulties. The other side is green and peace.

Add: If you want to be realistic, stop allowing yourself to be depressed or talk about the problems. Start thinking about the solutions. Map out your life, have a plan and detail where you want to go to accomplish your goals, how you can improve your skills, and expand your networking. And also know this: Problems always exist in every culture, age, industry, and economy, that is why companies hire people who can provide the "Solutions", and who can solves the problems. Are you that person who knows what most people don't know? If you do, you will stay at the top. Don't be like people who complain the inevitable. The schools will always pop up, people will continue to apply for pharmacy. What you are trying to do on SDN is like peeing in the sea. Would you rather spend 24 hours/day on SDN to tell people about the problems or would you take care of yourself first? Listen, there are gonna be some people (pharmacists) suffer from this market for not doing anything. I am sorry but that is life. Some of you will lose your jobs, and be eliminated, removed from the market. All you have to do is make sure you are not one of them. Follow my example, and you will make this profession move forward, and your country proud of hard working people.
 
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