Why all the NEGATIVITY about USC??????????

[Toothguy80]

Hi, so my first choice is USC, but I hear so many bad things about it?

Why are people taking 5-6 years to graduate from USC?
Why does it take so long?

Is it their fault?
Please someone who actually goes to USC, explain this to me?

What do you guys do there?

I am under the impression that the first year is chill, second year you study your butt off for boards, third and fourth year you see patients, right?

How on earth does it take 5-6 years to graduate? So does that mean that you will end up with more loans?

Doesnt USC gurantee that you will work in their clinic or somewhere when you graduate? I heard that they will hook you up with a nice job, that's the only reason I want to go there, also, I want Dental School to be less stressful..
I hear UCLA and UCSF is stressful.

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[li1p0ptart]

omg there are like ten thousand threads about this.
but to answer your questions in short...

Too many requirements, too little chairs, but the school is working on changing that and it does NOT take 5-6 years it just takes a little bit longer than 4 for SOME people (most of the '07 class anyway)

Unless the student is being completely lazy and not trying to get any of his/her requirements done, it is not his/her fault. The school needs to take action into changing the way patients are assigned to students and the number of requirements that need to be completed to graduate, which, thanks to the senior and junior classes, is starting to be developed.

What do we do there? We study dentistry.......i dont get this question.

The first two trimesters are very relaxed. Summer trimester of first year you start to get busy. Then the rest is pretty much correct.

It doesnt. but if you take an extra trimester or extra few months than 4 years then yes you will end up with more loans

USC is less stressful that first year definitley than most schools. whether you look at this as a good or bad thing is up to you. If you use that "extra time" to read textbooks and study then its not a waste of time. If you go to the beach all day and do nothing then it probably is a waste of time.
I don't know about guaranteed work placement, although several people who have graduated do end up helping out with some of the labs/clinic/classes and stuff but i dont think they get paid much for that.

 

[cuneatus2]

Hi, so my first choice is USC, but I hear so many bad things about it?

Why are people taking 5-6 years to graduate from USC?
Why does it take so long?

Is it their fault?
Please someone who actually goes to USC, explain this to me?

What do you guys do there?

I am under the impression that the first year is chill, second year you study your butt off for boards, third and fourth year you see patients, right?

How on earth does it take 5-6 years to graduate? So does that mean that you will end up with more loans?

Doesnt USC gurantee that you will work in their clinic or somewhere when you graduate? I heard that they will hook you up with a nice job, that's the only reason I want to go there, also, I want Dental School to be less stressful..
I hear UCLA and UCSF is stressful.

H

 

[lionelhutz]

Doesnt USC gurantee that you will work in their clinic or somewhere when you graduate? I heard that they will hook you up with a nice job, that's the only reason I want to go there

no

 

[jackbauer!]

Doesnt USC gurantee that you will work in their clinic or somewhere when you graduate? I heard that they will hook you up with a nice job, that's the only reason I want to go there, also, I want Dental School to be less stressful..
I hear UCLA and UCSF is stressful.

Dental schools don't "hook you up" with nice jobs..

jb!

ps- you may want to rethink your answers to "Why USC?" before interviewing

 

[uclawill]

usc is fine.

its for some people and its not for some people becasue of its PBL based curriculum.

some people do not like the idea of it, or do not do good in it, therefore they start going postal on the forums.

however, USC is not a bad dental school at all, they have strict requirements which says alot about what they ask clinically from their students.

I would love to attend USC next year if I am accepted. I feel that I am one that will be able to take advantage and learn from a PBL based system where I can also go home and self-direct my studies for boards.

Theres nothing too much different about USC other than PBL.
Except for its 90k a year price, but to be honest with you if you are planning on being an agressive practitioner, this should not matter to you.

USC has huge network possibilities so your assumption that you will get a good job is correct. Though no one will be handing out free positions, I am sure a USC graduate would be embraced by another USC alumni practicing in the field of dentistry. bigger class = more graduates = more dentsits from usc out there.

 

[pine88]

Until you actually go to a school and experience the CURRENT status of a program, you have no right to comment that a particular program is good or not. Any info you have is second handed at best which, if this were a court of law, it would be inadmissible. Now, the students here on SDN from USC who are talking negatively about USC could be disgruntled because they aren't doing as well as they feel they should have or they could have a legit complaint. That is not my place to decide. This website is here so people can get advice and you need to hear from them about their concerns. If there are students who enjoy the school and think the school is fine, the they should say so.

Now, to assume that just because you graduate from USC you are assured of a good job - you will be widely awakened upon graduation if the school truly has the reputation that is being given here in this forum. If the school has gone down hill as being said here, dentists are not going to put their own reputation on the line by hiring a lesser qualified, newly graduated dentist just because they graduated from their alma mater.

Now, nothing that I have said is giving my opinion about the school. I don't know the program. My comments are soley my opinions based on what has been said here on SDN defending those students who are dissatisfied with the school that their comments are from first hand experience compared to uclawill's 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand info.

Just a reminder: This is the Pre-Dental forum. None of us know what we are talking about.

That being said, it seems to me the main gripe USC students have with the school is the ridiculously low graduation rate. 18% are graduating on time. I'd be pissed too, especially paying so much for tuition. Here are the grad rates, taken from another thread:

YEAR: (below) Grad MONTH: MAY AUG DEC

--------- ------------------------------------

2003 78% 99% 100%

2004 71% 94% 99

2005 74 95 98

2006 34 84 88

2007 18 ? ?

Seems like people like the first 2 years, do well on part I of the boards, but feel the clinic is not run well. Class size has grown, and now people are having trouble getting chairs and patients. They feel the clinic is organized in a way that makes graduation requirements impossible to do in 4 years. Which seems to be the case when only 18% of the 2007 class is actually graduating.

Let me reiterate: I know nothing. I have no experience with USC. All I know is what I have read online. I am a peon. Please don't yell at me.

 

[pine88]

I fully realize this is PRE-dent, but I disagree that no one knows what they are talking about.

Sigh...what happens to irony or humor when it is lost on the internet?

 

[pine88]

 

[SirShagaLot]

What exactly are u guys talking about when u say "strict requirements"?

 

[pine88]

What exactly are u guys talking about when u say "strict requirements"?

Here's a quote from a dental thread:

"I truly believe that I will be more than a competent dentist when I graduate. However I am completely dissastified with the way the clinic operates. If UoP can graduate their students in 3 years, there is absolutely no excuse for USC's dismal graduation rate since we have a four year program. A senior told me that if I wanted to graduate on time that I would have to walk on the "dark side" , which she meant to not follow the rules.

For instance every pt is supposed to have the following done once a year: 1) DAta Collection- this take place in one appointment which includes for every pt ( diagnostic casts, perio probing, update xrays, E & I, Md Hx update). 2) Tx planning appointment ( Established updated Tx plan which takes 1 appt) 3) Perio Tx - can be 1 or more additional appointments

Many of my patients that have been transferred to me from upperclassmen have Tx plans that are 2 years old and haven't had a cleaning for 2 or more years, yet in order for me the work on the patient (ethically) I have to spend at mininmum 3 appoitments just to bring them up to date, before I can start any restorative tx. I currently have 50 pts to manage and if I was Treat every pt by the book, then that would take me 150 appointments + adding 10-20% additinal appointments due to cancellations that brings me to 180 appointments without doing any restorative work. We have 12 possible appointments that we can book per week, so that means that I can spend 15 straight weeks, working my butt off, but not getting any restorative therapy completed. With the mandatory rotations, lectures, presentations, clinic closures etc, it would easily take me more than 1 semester to bring my pts up to date.

However half of my patients I picked up through our Urgent Care Clinic, so in order to do any restorative work on these pt's it would take approximately 9 visits before I perform any restorative work. (1st appt the day I actually see them in the emergency clinic, 2nd appointment- taking our pt through the patient admitting clinic, 3rd appt- data collection, 4th appt- Tx plan, 5th-8th appt for quad Sc/rp, 9th appt periodontal re-evaluation/tissue check. I could skip the 5th-8th appointment by referring them to dental hygiene, but they book up so fast that it can take forever to get a patient out of there.

With these 50 pts, I only have 1 that is Tx planned for class II amalgams, for which we need to take 3 competency exams on, I don't have any full denture cases ( I think we need 7 arches to graduate).

Obviously I won't be able to see all of my currently assigned pts, so I am trying to figure out which ones I can drop or transfer.

So far I have treated every pt by the book, per USC standards, but I feel mounting pressure to "walk on the dark side" so that I can have a chance at graduating on time.

Out of the 17-18% who graduated on time, I would like to see how many of them have gone to extraordinary measures to graduate on time i.e. paying for their pt's procedures, placing ads in the LA TIMES, doing dental work on their family members. Both of my friends are having family fly in from out of state just so they can meet some of their graduation requirements."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=407981



Another quote from a USC student:

"Actually, clinically USC is a top program. The graduates from this school are usually very skilled and proficient. That is not the problem and is not what were pissed about. Its the intransigence of the clinical higher ups and the fact that they continue to make it almost impossible to graduate on time. The 18% on-time graduation rate is real. The school doesn't seem to give a damn. But things should be changing. ASB recently took the classes petition to the board of trustees, they were pretty upset. Dean Slavkin and the clinical deans were there and I hear they were sweatin bullets. One of the ASB council members described it as "like swattin a hornits nest". The Board of Trustees are now wanting to meet with the class of 08 to look into it more thoroughly. I think that they have called a class meeting for this Wednesday, so well see what happens. I think this could finally force some change at this school."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=399349

 

[pine88]

Here's another:

"[Problems leading to low graduation rates:]
1. Not enough faculty coverage for the number of students that are permitted to be on the clinic floor
2. The majority of the faculty that is on the clinic floor does not have the authority to sign off on fixed work so you end up prepping a crown with one faculty in one appt take a final impression on your 2nd appt and then send the lab work out. Then you spend a day or two trying to track one of the five faculty who do have the authority to sign it off only to have them tell you that there needs to be adjustments made. Then you bring the patient back but unfortunately the faculty who can sign off is rarely ever teaching on the clinic floor. Do this 5 + times until your patient gets completely fed up and doesn’t want to come back.
3. So many requirements: 30 fixed (crowns), 9 removable arches, etc..
4. Soo many comp exams on live patients who must qualify for these exams. The faculty grading are nearly impossible to pass, and it is soooo hard to find pt’s that qualify. Every day we are bombarded by seniors emailing us looking for compable crowns. They are more like begging us for these crowns.
5. Again not enough faculty to sit your patient down and do the work
6. Last week attempted to take a final impression of a crown. RDA left early (the person who takes the impressions). Tried to get the material needed from the dispensary but guess what they were all out. Brought patient back tonight only to beg every single faculty on the clinic floor to please cover me. I explained that I don’t need there assistance I have everything signed off. I just want to get a final impression. But after one hour of running around that didn’t happen. Had to send my pt. home. Apparently, 2 faculty just decided to cancel their night chairs, and of course nobody bothers to tell the poor dental students!!"
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=377807

 

[pine88]

Here's the latest post about USC. If it's true, that's pretty crazy...

"I just received information that USC will be temporarily shut down for the 2009-2010 school year for a full academic revamping. Current students will be appropriately transfered to local dental schools during the closing. At least thats a start. This news was distributed in a memo today and should be making its rounds soon. I will update SDN when I get more concrete information."

 

[starfishbear]

BS!

Here's the latest post about USC. If it's true, that's pretty crazy...

"I just received information that USC will be temporarily shut down for the 2009-2010 school year for a full academic revamping. Current students will be appropriately transfered to local dental schools during the closing. At least thats a start. This news was distributed in a memo today and should be making its rounds soon. I will update SDN when I get more concrete information."

 

[li1p0ptart]

Here's the latest post about USC. If it's true, that's pretty crazy...

"I just received information that USC will be temporarily shut down for the 2009-2010 school year for a full academic revamping. Current students will be appropriately transfered to local dental schools during the closing. At least thats a start. This news was distributed in a memo today and should be making its rounds soon. I will update SDN when I get more concrete information."

uh i think as a current dental student i would know about this before whoever said that..

 

[pine88]

Yeah, it sounded pretty crazy. I was hoping a USC student would come on and comment

 

[starfishbear]

Well i hope pine88 is getting this information from a credible source because if not then he or she is losing his or her own crediability and 588 posts that he has done as a senior member.

 

[bruinpredent]

If you look at the post just before you, li1p0ptart said "uh i think as a current dental student i would know about this before whoever said that.."

I think she is a current student at USC based on what she said.

she IS a current student, and a very credible one at that. people, this is how rumors start....all it takes is one baseless statement from someone who only has 1 or 2 posts and suddenly the whole world is coming to an end, yea?

come on...

 

[bruinpredent]

The comment that pine88 quoted came from a posting that was submitted last night on the Dental Forum by 2007Doc. No idea if this info has been verified, but pine88 wasn't the rumor starter.

i was refering to 2007doc, hence the comment about only having 1 or 2 posts

 

[TypoDont]

uh i think as a current dental student i would know about this before whoever said that..

This little poptart here is a 2010, don't be so naive girl, the higher ups would never let you know about crap unless it leaked from ASB or SOME Faculty. This school is a total mess..damn! Gotta run, must start the clinical struggle one more day.

 

[uclawill]

Until you actually go to a school and experience the CURRENT status of a program, you have no right to comment that a particular program is good or not. Any info you have is second handed at best which, if this were a court of law, it would be inadmissible. Now, the students here on SDN from USC who are talking negatively about USC could be disgruntled because they aren't doing as well as they feel they should have or they could have a legit complaint. That is not my place to decide. This website is here so people can get advice and you need to hear from them about their concerns. If there are students who enjoy the school and think the school is fine, the they should say so.

Now, to assume that just because you graduate from USC you are assured of a good job - you will be widely awakened upon graduation if the school truly has the reputation that is being given here in this forum. If the school has gone down hill as being said here, dentists are not going to put their own reputation on the line by hiring a lesser qualified, newly graduated dentist just because they graduated from their alma mater.

Now, nothing that I have said is giving my opinion about the school. I don't know the program. My comments are soley my opinions based on what has been said here on SDN defending those students who are dissatisfied with the school that their comments are from first hand experience compared to uclawill's 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand info.

Um thanks for the personal attack there buddy.


in anycase, Ive visited the school, have 1 cousin and a uncle thats graduated from there, and my fiance is going there next year

all i did was tell you what I knew, and you did the exact same thing but made me sound like i was talking out of my ass

I did not say you were assued of a good job, but you will be a dentist, graduated from 1 of 3 dental schools in southern california. There are alot of networking opportunities to be had while in school and even after.

 

[li1p0ptart]

This little poptart here is a 2010, don't be so naive girl, the higher ups would never let you know about crap unless it leaked from ASB or SOME Faculty. This school is a total mess..damn! Gotta run, must start the clinical struggle one more day.

the higher ups? are you saying they would let the upperclassmen know first? why would they do that? shouldnt everyone who is going to be forced to move schools have the right to know at the same time? Dont be silly just because you *may* be graduating next year and dont feed into this rumor. =P

 

[pine88]

If you look at the post just before you, li1p0ptart said "uh i think as a current dental student i would know about this before whoever said that.."

I think she is a current student at USC based on what she said.

Yes exactly. I picked up on that subtle clue, plus she has posted frequently on the dental forum. I know she is a USC student, so I was saying "good, I'm glad you posted something.
Sorry to spread the rumors from the dental to the predent page, but I had been waiting for someone to comment on the original comment and noone was, so I wanted to see if anyone would respond to the repost. And it worked. And now we know for sure that it is a bunch of lies. Ah, closure.

 

[pine88]

The comment that pine88 quoted came from a posting that was submitted last night on the Dental Forum by 2007Doc. No idea if this info has been verified, but pine88 wasn't the rumor starter.

Thank you. Yup just passing on crap I found on the dental page. My apologies.

Dont be silly just because you *may* be graduating next year. =P

Ooo, them's fighting words

 

[TypoDont]

the higher ups? are you saying they would let the upperclassmen know first? why would they do that? shouldnt everyone who is going to be forced to move schools have the right to know at the same time? Dont be silly just because you *may* be graduating next year and dont feed into this rumor. =P

First of all, I don't believe that rumor to be true, second; you are not an upperclassmen; if something happened to them, they would be notified; however you are a 2010 with no experience in anything except waxing and playing with plastic teeth. I truly believe that you wouldn't be notified squad except where your next PBL session is going to be. I am not feeding up into this rumor, I'm merely making you understand that YOU as a freshman turning sophomore will not be notified crap that happens internally in at the upperlevel. You guys weren't even included in the petition for a change that is being submitted to the USC Board Committee; thanks to us (Class of 2008) and the 2009 you guys "may" have the opportunity to graduate on time.

Sorry for venting this, but people like this girl upsets me to my stomach.

 

[pine88]

(I appreciate your input poptart. Just my 2 cents)

 

[li1p0ptart]

First of all, I don't believe that rumor to be true, second; you are not an upperclassmen; if something happened to them, they would be notified; however you are a 2010 with no experience in anything except waxing and playing with plastic teeth. I truly believe that you wouldn't be notified squad except where your next PBL session is going to be. I am not feeding up into this rumor, I'm merely making you understand that YOU as a freshman turning sophomore will not be notified crap that happens internally in at the upperlevel. You guys weren't even included in the petition for a change that is being submitted to the USC Board Committee; thanks to us (Class of 2008) and the 2009 you guys "may" have the opportunity to graduate on time.

Sorry for venting this, but people like this girl upsets me to my stomach.

I understand that we may not be notified BEFORE everyone else, the main thing I was trying to say was that its way too close to the next year for the school to suddenly announce to everyone that it will be closing. I do appreciate the fact that you guys are working to change things at the school, but as NavyDDS stated, why would we sign something we really don't know much about yet. I'm sure were we in your position we would be signing as well.

Thanks to pine88 and NavyDDS2010 for understanding me.

TypoDont, I really don't want there to be any animosity between us seeing as how we do go to the same school and may unknowingly run into each other from time to time (well at least I won't know and you may not recognize me from the pic) so I apologize for upsetting you to your stomach, I don't know how I could have with what I was talking about. I would also appreciate it if you stopped acting as though you are better than me just because you happened to enter dental school a few years before I did.

 

[MaxAnn]

One of these days, USC, Howard, and some other dental school that is poorly run will be nationally exposed. It might take 60 minutes or some national newspaper to do it. It may take another 10 or 20 years, but when it does occur, and it will, people's eyes will be opened.

Despite the intermittent personal attacks and forays into comedy, the forums do a good job of informing people who would otherwise have no idea what to expect in their medical education, one that is increasingly costly both financially and time wise.

No one believed conditions were that bad at Walter Reed until they saw it.
(Anyone who had lived in the DC area and wasn't blind, deaf, and dumb had heard this before).

The point is that any organization that is poorly managed is doomed until respective leadership takes a new course or is removed altogether.

The main problem with dental schools is that turnover in staff and administration is slow because recruitment is stagnant. Whereas a military establishment, will experience change in leadership (turnover) much more quickly.

 

[TeethVader]

One of these days, USC, Howard, and some other dental school that is poorly run will be nationally exposed. It might take 60 minutes or some national newspaper to do it. It may take another 10 or 20 years, but when it does occur, and it will, people's eyes will be opened.

Despite the intermittent personal attacks and forays into comedy, the forums do a good job of informing people who would otherwise have no idea what to expect in their medical education, one that is increasingly costly both financially and time wise.

No one believed conditions were that bad at Walter Reed until they saw it.
(Anyone who had lived in the DC area and wasn't blind, deaf, and dumb had heard this before).

The point is that any organization that is poorly managed is doomed until respective leadership takes a new course or is removed altogether.

The main problem with dental schools is that turnover in staff and administration is slow because recruitment is stagnant. Whereas a military establishment, will experience change in leadership (turnover) much more quickly.

Very true; the Class of 2008 here at SC are actually trying to work with the administration and keep things internal. However, if things don't get resolved they will go public (LA Times, NBC etc) and procede with the lawsuit against the school. I think, this is the year USC Incompetent administration will get spanked by us, their clients. As of now, crap stinks at USC

 

[Columbia07]

TeethVader,

Did you guys make any progress at the board meeting? Also, how can you form a lawsuit against a school for low graduation rates? (not trying to sound like a jerk).

Thanks and good luck!

 

[bruinpredent]

TeethVader,

Did you guys make any progress at the board meeting? Also, how can you form a lawsuit against a school for low graduation rates? (not trying to sound like a jerk).

Thanks and good luck!

theres clearly more to the story than just low graduation rates...

 

[TeethVader]

TeethVader,

Did you guys make any progress at the board meeting? Also, how can you form a lawsuit against a school for low graduation rates? (not trying to sound like a jerk).

Thanks and good luck!

This comes from QCKidd, Class of 08 student:
Nothing so far. The directors and deans are actually pissed and "disappointed" with the students for trying to do something about continually bending over and taking it up the backside. I guess their - daddy's going to punish you if you disobey me - has worked pretty well for them in the past. They also like to fall back on the ol' reliable: vague non-committal answers about things that may happen somewhere in the distant future. If that doesn't work they usually either blow us off or tell us that we can do something. Which usually involves us spending a lot of time and effort leading to no real changes. That way, when the class finally realizes its totally screwed and that faculty have just pawned us off and diverted our attention, its actually to late for us to do anything because graduation time is already upon us and we are completely sick of this place anyways and just want to get the he!! out.

If you have different admission choices Columbia, try exploring those, you STILL have a choice. Us 08's and 09's are screwed.

 

[bionerd]

This comes from QCKidd, Class of 08 student:
Nothing so far. The directors and deans are actually pissed and "disappointed" with the students for trying to do something about continually bending over and taking it up the backside. I guess their - daddy's going to punish you if you disobey me - has worked pretty well for them in the past. They also like to fall back on the ol' reliable: vague non-committal answers about things that may happen somewhere in the distant future. If that doesn't work they usually either blow us off or tell us that we can do something. Which usually involves us spending a lot of time and effort leading to no real changes. That way, when the class finally realizes its totally screwed and that faculty have just pawned us off and diverted our attention, its actually to late for us to do anything because graduation time is already upon us and we are completely sick of this place anyways and just want to get the he!! out.

If you have different admission choices Columbia, try exploring those, you STILL have a choice. Us 08's and 09's are screwed.

It seems like there are some VERY bitter feelings towards USC by current upperclassmen. Why don't you guys take just it public already (LA Times, NBC, etc) and get the reform process going. With an administration like that...you know it'll take years for them to change (if they ever will). But just curious, if there IS a lawsuit...what would be the basis? Fraud?

 

[bmrboy19]

There is a lawsuit...but it's not about money from what I understood. It was about them changing their current system, not completely but to a more manageable system.

 

[Columbia07]

Bmrboy,

Didn't your brother recently graduate from SC' Dental? What did he say about the current situation? From what I understand, the problem is with the clinic and how it's managed. Thanks. See you in a few months!

 

[seansk]

First of all, I don't believe that rumor to be true, second; you are not an upperclassmen; if something happened to them, they would be notified; however you are a 2010 with no experience in anything except waxing and playing with plastic teeth. I truly believe that you wouldn't be notified squad except where your next PBL session is going to be. I am not feeding up into this rumor, I'm merely making you understand that YOU as a freshman turning sophomore will not be notified crap that happens internally in at the upperlevel. You guys weren't even included in the petition for a change that is being submitted to the USC Board Committee; thanks to us (Class of 2008) and the 2009 you guys "may" have the opportunity to graduate on time.

Sorry for venting this, but people like this girl upsets me to my stomach.

"people like this" is actually one of the coolest people I know at USC and sits right behind me lab...She always seems to get things done and very efficiently too! People like this work well with everyone else in the lab and does a good job of standing up for what she believes in!

sounds like an upperclassman is bitter again, how typical! don't worry Mr "dont" you'll be a doctor one day! and all this will be soon forgotten! yes i'm a class of 2010 and i play with plastic teeth!! get over yourself and go get your requirements finished instead of sitting in front of the computer answering every person's little comment about USC!