Why am I not making any money?

[meameame12]

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The problem is that I am subleasing at a LensCrafters, I have 3 locations, full-time doctors, etc etc. The offices are overall doing well (supposedly, on paper) but it always seems that we cannot save any money!

I am looking into hiring a bookkeeper--not an accountant for taxes or an office manager, I do have those, but someone who tracks the money coming in to the practice. Do most OD's hire them, and if so, are they worth it (ie have you noticed an improvement/better cash flow, and how?)

This has been very frustrating to our family, since both of us work very hard, long hours, and still have NO MONEY SAVED! I know people are going to comment and say to get out of corporate leases, blah blah. But I'm not looking for that kind of answer. I am unfortunately not able to start a practice from scratch, and don't have the funds right now to buy a private practice/optical.

I would like to know why is it that people constantly say that most new grads go into corporate to make lots of money? I have been doing this for 7 years now, and I find that it's not the case. Is private practice (ie optical) the better way to go?

Is anyone else having the same issues?

The 3 offices generate over $1 million in GROSS, which of course is very ficticious--not an accurate way of determining the net, not in my case, at least--which I would be happy if it was a decent amount. But the thing is, due to the high overhead (rent--mainly, and staff, CL costs, etc) and esp the extremely high associate ODs' salaries that they almost demand (or they simply won't be interested in working here) we bring home nothing--we can pay our bills, but still sre STRUGGLING to save.

That's another point--why do fresh OD's right out of school think they can demand the current market rate of pay that OD's with more experience get? When I graduated I was happy to be getting paid $350 per day--I thought I was going to be rich! Now they won't even accept $500 for an 8 hour day!! Where did they come from?!

Anyway, I would like to see if anyone shares the same frustrations and has any input or suggestions. That would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you
😕

 

[KHE]

The problem is that I am subleasing at a LensCrafters, I have 3 locations, full-time doctors, etc etc. The offices are overall doing well (supposedly, on paper) but it always seems that we cannot save any money!

I am looking into hiring a bookkeeper--not an accountant for taxes or an office manager, I do have those, but someone who tracks the money coming in to the practice. Do most OD's hire them, and if so, are they worth it (ie have you noticed an improvement/better cash flow, and how?)

This has been very frustrating to our family, since both of us work very hard, long hours, and still have NO MONEY SAVED! I know people are going to comment and say to get out of corporate leases, blah blah. But I'm not looking for that kind of answer. I am unfortunately not able to start a practice from scratch, and don't have the funds right now to buy a private practice/optical.

I would like to know why is it that people constantly say that most new grads go into corporate to make lots of money? I have been doing this for 7 years now, and I find that it's not the case. Is private practice (ie optical) the better way to go?

Is anyone else having the same issues?

The 3 offices generate over $1 million in GROSS, which of course is very ficticious--not an accurate way of determining the net, not in my case, at least--which I would be happy if it was a decent amount. But the thing is, due to the high overhead (rent--mainly, and staff, CL costs, etc) and esp the extremely high associate ODs' salaries that they almost demand (or they simply won't be interested in working here) we bring home nothing--we can pay our bills, but still sre STRUGGLING to save.

That's another point--why do fresh OD's right out of school think they can demand the current market rate of pay that OD's with more experience get? When I graduated I was happy to be getting paid $350 per day--I thought I was going to be rich! Now they won't even accept $500 for an 8 hour day!! Where did they come from?!

Anyway, I would like to see if anyone shares the same frustrations and has any input or suggestions. That would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you
😕

You didn't say if your wife was an OD as well but it sounds like your three locations are not busy enough to justify the expense of fully staffing them with ODs though your corporate lease may demand that.

If I were you, I would probably bag one, maybe even two of them and just you yourself work the one that is the busiest. Maybe hire someone for the day or two that you want off a week.

You also have to make sure that you stay on top of your insurance billings. Make sure that you are actually getting paid what you're supposed to get paid. Don't let AR pile up. It's easy to do. Do you have someone who submits claims for you or do you do it all? If it's someone else, stay on top of them.

 

[meameame12]

I practice in NJ, so these new grads are quite demanding for being in the "New York area" --and my husband is in not an OD, but has a well-paying job. That's why we're so frustrated. Initially of course I had one location for several years, I was working most of the week, and hired someone 1-2 days. I got tired of not being able to stay home with the kids, had a newborn as well, and so decided to add another location so I could afford to hire OD's for additional days with the added revenue.

That seemed to be working ok, but then the so-called economic crash occurred. While I hear most OD's in my area weren't THAT affected by it, my offices really suffered. But I guess I need to do the additional work and hire someone to analyze all the numebrs. Since the gross didn't change too much, just that we don't seem to be keeping any more money. I have an office manager and other staff that do all the insurance billing (through an automated system) and that seems to be working pretty well.

Does anyone have experience hiring a bookkepper? If so, has that helped in any way?? And what was the outcome?

 

[meameame12]

You didn't say if your wife was an OD as well but it sounds like your three locations are not busy enough to justify the expense of fully staffing them with ODs though your corporate lease may demand that.

If I were you, I would probably bag one, maybe even two of them and just you yourself work the one that is the busiest. Maybe hire someone for the day or two that you want off a week.

You also have to make sure that you stay on top of your insurance billings. Make sure that you are actually getting paid what you're supposed to get paid. Don't let AR pile up. It's easy to do. Do you have someone who submits claims for you or do you do it all? If it's someone else, stay on top of them.

I appreciate your advice. That's what we're trying to do now, trying to find a victim for the slow practice, and perhaps consider selling another one with it, since no one seems interested in the slow one alone.

This has been really difficult, and has put so much stress in our lives. All of this is not worth it, esp when you can't even make enough to enjoy your life or save for your children. Would buying a private practice with an optical be better? We're contemplating that also, of course after selling all and getting out of the corporate lease all together. I definitely do NOT want to work for someone, that is not an option. Any ideas, anyone?

 

[drbizzaro]

the problem is that you are paying what those new grads are demanding.

the key is to tell them the best you can afford is 70k or 65k. you need to low ball them. if you accept their high demand, you will go broke. I know you were desperate to hire, but you'll eventually find someone who will take the bait.

And do not worry about OD's leaving, there are too many now, and you'll get another back in there if one leaves.

I practice in NJ, so these new grads are quite demanding for being in the "New York area" --and my husband is in not an OD, but has a well-paying job. That's why we're so frustrated. Initially of course I had one location for several years, I was working most of the week, and hired someone 1-2 days. I got tired of not being able to stay home with the kids, had a newborn as well, and so decided to add another location so I could afford to hire OD's for additional days with the added revenue.

That seemed to be working ok, but then the so-called economic crash occurred. While I hear most OD's in my area weren't THAT affected by it, my offices really suffered. But I guess I need to do the additional work and hire someone to analyze all the numebrs. Since the gross didn't change too much, just that we don't seem to be keeping any more money. I have an office manager and other staff that do all the insurance billing (through an automated system) and that seems to be working pretty well.

Does anyone have experience hiring a bookkepper? If so, has that helped in any way?? And what was the outcome?

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

LensCrafters O.D's ===> MUST accept Eyemed. This is a toilet bowl of vision insurances. I had to discount over 50% off my U and C's since I was over their allowable amounts.

New grads avoid...Eyemed, Davis Vision and Specterrible if all possible.

Good luck to you.

 

[optojake]

lol, "Specterrible"... it is ridiculously bad. never heard it called "Specterrible" though... i'll have to use that one. its sad that the "vision" insurances usually are the ones that reimburse the lowest.

and i would say 65k is a little low for new grads. i know coming out of optometry school in 12 months (and according to a recent article in Review of Optometry), i'm expecting between 70-76k. you also have to realize the amount that tuition has skyrocketed over the past few years too. its not uncommon for grads to have close to 200k in student loan debt. (however, anything over 80-85k base pay is pretty high).

 

[OD4eyes]

For eyemed CLE, make sure that your office is charging every contact lens exam as a premium fit & followup instead of standard, which is usually 90% of your fitting fee.

 

[blazenmadison]

That's another point--why do fresh OD's right out of school think they can demand the current market rate of pay that OD's with more experience get? When I graduated I was happy to be getting paid $350 per day--I thought I was going to be rich! Now they won't even accept $500 for an 8 hour day!! Where did they come from?!

Thank you
😕

I'm a new grad. Where are you getting $500/day?? The average is 350-400/day. My classmates have gotten jobs in private practice for ~70-80k. Commercial practice associateships and OMDs are in the range of 100k. The best commercial salary is America's Best (or worst rather) for 120k with guaranteed burnout. One classmate got lucky with a private practice contract for 150k in N.C. (granted he passes N.C. boards).

I think the new grad demanding 500/day will soon find out he is in the minority.

 

[optojake]

i have to agree. 350-400 per day for a new grad is average. though 500 would be nice, lol...

 

[KHE]

I appreciate your advice. That's what we're trying to do now, trying to find a victim for the slow practice, and perhaps consider selling another one with it, since no one seems interested in the slow one alone.

Why do you need to find anyone? Just end the lease with 90 days notice and be done with it.

This has been really difficult, and has put so much stress in our lives. All of this is not worth it, esp when you can't even make enough to enjoy your life or save for your children. Would buying a private practice with an optical be better? We're contemplating that also, of course after selling all and getting out of the corporate lease all together. I definitely do NOT want to work for someone, that is not an option. Any ideas, anyone?

Something is definately right if you can't make money with three commercial leases. Without knowing much of your situation, I would still guess what I already did.....you've got yourself locked into a lease that requires far more coverage than the location actually needs and you're having to pay someone to cover a store that isn't generating any income.

I wouldn't look at private practice as the better option per se, though I do think that it is almost always the better option. Private practice requires a fairly different mindset than having a commercial lease and you gotta make sure you're cut out for it.

One way or the other I would bag at least one, possibly two of your commercial leases. Just end them. Don't you have a 90 day out clause?

 

[optsuker]

Agree with KHE's points.
You need to simplify. Drop 1-2 leases or pay the associates a straight %, not a fixed salary. If they're motivated, they'll work harder (and make you more $$).

Traditionally, commercial leases are the "easiest" to run, so I don't think I could advise you to enter PP, if you're can't turn a decent net in a CP.

Forget the "bookkeeper," you need to bring in a practice management consultant to tell you what you're doing wrong.

A site like ODWire will have a lot more OD's to consult with than a student site.

 

[JMU07]

lol, "Specterrible"... it is ridiculously bad. never heard it called "Specterrible" though... i'll have to use that one. its sad that the "vision" insurances usually are the ones that reimburse the lowest.

That's what we called it at the office I used to work at, lol. My doc didn't accept it. unfortunately, since we were at at Pearle he had to take the other crapshoots.

 

[JAZZEYE]

the problem is that you are paying what those new grads are demanding.

the key is to tell them the best you can afford is 70k or 65k. you need to low ball them. if you accept their high demand, you will go broke. I know you were desperate to hire, but you'll eventually find someone who will take the bait.

And do not worry about OD's leaving, there are too many now, and you'll get another back in there if one leaves.

This is supposed to be a "STUDENT Doctor Network"...and OD's talk about "low balling some dumb kids just out of school" because some will "eventually take the bait"..."take advantage".

All because some fellow OD can't manage her business and will "NOT work for anyone".
Tell her the truth...she sucks as a business person and better rethink working for somebody else who does know how to run a business...just hope they don't low ball her.
What a disgrace...this community just keeps sinking lower every year.
The most important thing students can learn here is... watch out for slime ball OD's.

 

[KHE]

What a disgrace...this community just keeps sinking lower every year.
The most important thing students can learn here is... watch out for slime balls OD's.

Regretably, it's basically true.

When I entered the field (yesterday was my 10 year anniversary) I thought I was entering a field of professionals that was going to be collegial and fraternal.

What I discovered is that many ODs (not all, but certainly way more than I expected) would screw you as soon as look at you.

🙁

 

[socal2014]

Exactly what I was thinking jazzeye.

I was especially shocked to see the OP refer to a potential associate as a victim.

 

[achirum]

Exactly what I was thinking jazzeye.

I was especially shocked to see the OP refer to a potential associate as a victim.

Yes, I must say, pure lack of class.

Before taking on 3 leases, should have made sure you could handle one IMO. Don't look past yourself for the problem.

 

[Optogal]

What I don't get is why your expenses are basically 1 million a year. Where is this money going?

 

[JAZZEYE]

Regretably, it's basically true.

When I entered the field (yesterday was my 10 year anniversary) I thought I was entering a field of professionals that was going to be collegial and fraternal.

What I discovered is that many ODs (not all, but certainly way more than I expected) would screw you as soon as look at you.

🙁

KHE...you have been saying that for years...
and it has kept me aware that its open season on you while your trying to get established.
Animosity if anything has grown,
shaky economy,
big box gets more and more control,
paranoia about over crowding,
new schools open... more paranoia about over crowding
greedy or desperate OD's willing to cannabilize their young.
It is what it is.
I thought and still do think,
its a priviledge to have a career in Optometry,
I'm not what you would call naive...
but I expected a little camaraderie,
a liitle class,
I don't know...
It is what it is.

 

[hello07]

you were happy getting 350 when you worked for someone and "ow they won't accept 500 for a 8 hr day" Where did they come from?

I'll tell you where they came from: When you have someone providing clinical competency at there best along with professionalism, a pleasant attitude, friendly,warm, affable, courteous and very confident as a doctor/ optometrist and pts see this you know what? that's money for you dear. If someone examines 20-25 more or less pts a day, busts their butt in an efficient manner and makes money for you; than what is wrong w/ compensating them 500 or 600 a day only for the sake of the argument and only for the sake of the argument?

Management side, business owners, opticians like to work OD's to the bone but like to eat everything themselves. I got a story for you- you're an Od and should be on OD's side not big wigs side. Grow up sale your stores and concentrate on ONE work it and pay yourself as little or as much as you want

You're a disgrace -it's comments like yours that I roll my eyes backwars when I have to hear stupid comments. They byusted their butt in undergad and OD school...............pay them. Your not any better than these opticins that have a GED.

I'm sorry but I'm ticked off!

 

[JAZZEYE]

you were happy getting 350 when you worked for someone and "ow they won't accept 500 for a 8 hr day" Where did they come from?

I'll tell you where they came from: When you have someone providing clinical competency at there best along with professionalism, a pleasant attitude, friendly,warm, affable, courteous and very confident as a doctor/ optometrist and pts see this you know what? that's money for you dear. If someone examines 20-25 more or less pts a day, busts their butt in an efficient manner and makes money for you; than what is wrong w/ compensating them 500 or 600 a day only for the sake of the argument and only for the sake of the argument?

Management side, business owners, opticians like to work OD's to the bone but like to eat everything themselves. I got a story for you- you're an Od and should be on OD's side not big wigs side. Grow up sale your stores and concentrate on ONE work it and pay yourself as little or as much as you want

You're a disgrace -it's comments like yours that I roll my eyes backwars when I have to hear stupid comments. They byusted their butt in undergad and OD school...............pay them. Your not any better than these opticins that have a GED.

I'm sorry but I'm ticked off!

Now thats inspiring. 👍

 

[Od_IT]

"That's another point--why do fresh OD's right out of school think they can demand the current market rate of pay that OD's with more experience get?"

Because we are new and improved.

 

[hello07]

JAZZEYE, inspiring or not I speak my mind and the truth. Let's be honest. When you got a great personality and pts love you, trust you and feel confident about your clinical skills - they buy they spend $$$$..Whe you're able to address their chief concern glasses, CL's no matter how easy or difficult the fit, dilate, tx ocular disease and speak to them make them understand the health of their eye and so forth.......that equates with purchasing glasses and spending 3-4-6-7 hundred bucks glasses. If you examine X ammt of pts and you put X amt of dollars thousands in their register they love you. Opticians corporations....etc they use you, that's all. it's a business for them. You're part of the link no matter how good you might be they don't care. $$$$$ the bottom line is what they care.

Now, you have a colleague of ours, mind you an OD talking crap......in regard to compensation. Have her work and pay her 200..........if she can't deal with fairness. But NO , she's as bad a corporate America.................you'll learn and go thru alot once you are out there.

Majority tend to be fair but.......................watchout......if they can get over on you 99.99999% WILL...... mark my words and this post!

 

[JAZZEYE]

JAZZEYE, inspiring or not I speak my mind and the truth. Let's be honest. When you got a great personality and pts love you, trust you and feel confident about your clinical skills - they buy they spend $$$$..Whe you're able to address their chief concern glasses, CL's no matter how easy or difficult the fit, dilate, tx ocular disease and speak to them make them understand the health of their eye and so forth.......that equates with purchasing glasses and spending 3-4-6-7 hundred bucks glasses. If you examine X ammt of pts and you put X amt of dollars thousands in their register they love you. Opticians corporations....etc they use you, that's all. it's a business for them. You're part of the link no matter how good you might be they don't care. $$$$$ the bottom line is what they care.

Now, you have a colleague of ours, mind you an OD talking crap......in regard to compensation. Have her work and pay her 200..........if she can't deal with fairness. But NO , she's as bad a corporate America.................you'll learn and go thru alot once you are out there.

Majority tend to be fair but.......................watchout......if they can get over on you 99.99999% WILL...... mark my words and this post!

I agree with you 100% Doc, and I appreciate that you remember what its like knocking on the door.
I thought $500 a day didn't sound that exorbitant,
there may be some justification for holding back full compensation until you see what your getting for your money,
but at some point if your satisfied that you have a good associate that you can be proud to practice with,
then pay them what their worth.
OD's should not even be thinking how long can I low ball an OD or "just get another one"... as a way of doing business.
It doesn't even make any practical sense.

 

[hello07]

I agree with your comments. Perhaps you don't throw that kind of money right out but if there pulling thru for you as you said, then no reason to low ball them, especially if it's colleague to colleague.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

Remember this: Greed............it always gets you. When you get greedy, and "you're caught in" no matter what the situation it gets you. Finished, Done. Our colleague should wake up.....................do what is right!

 

[362.04]

The problem is that I am subleasing at a LensCrafters, I have 3 locations, full-time doctors, etc etc. The offices are overall doing well (supposedly, on paper) but it always seems that we cannot save any money! ...
....Anyway, I would like to see if anyone shares the same frustrations and has any input or suggestions. That would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you
😕

Dear meameame,

You have a lot of concerns her, but I perceive that you are blaming one where many might the source.

1. Do you hold the master lease or do you sublease from a master lease holder?
2. Your office manager should possess rudimentary bookkeeping skills. If not, why not install a practice management program where you can audit better the cash flow. I think you might be able to identify where the cash is going. A bookkeeper might not be able to do that as well. Usually forensic accounting requires an accounting degree.
3. In microeconomics, if your marginal revenue is less than marginal cost, then your costs are way out of line. In a different way, that extra $1 of revenue is costing you $1.25 in costs. If that's true, then a $500k office might make more "take home" than a $1MM.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

...It doesn't even make any practical sense.

Exactly! Those ODs & other doctors in the "low ball club" must be blind to think that patients do not recognize a "revolving door" style practice. You definitely kill your word of mouth referral that way!

I agree, after a 90day probation, full compensation should be given. If you want a $200/day doc then advertise for one. But just remember you often times get what you pay for...

Graduating from OD school and being told all 4 years that you will command six figures from the gate, combined with high student debt is a big reason for the $500/day.

 

[optojake]

graduating in less than a year, i am drowning in a DEEP ocean of debt. and while on paper, an inexperience OD should make 200-300 a day, that just isnt going to pay the bills.

and like i told my wife when she saw an eye exam at walmart for $29... you get what you pay for. and that includes hiring a new OD.

 

[Kane2000]

What's all the fuss about pay here? $300/day equates to about $75,000/year. For a new grad that is alot. I'm a veterinary student and grads in our profession get around $45-55,000/ year. Even experienced vets can't earn more than 120k/year.

I always wonder how optical stores manage to keep paying their staff so much because majority of their income comes from spec sales. My partner is an optometry student and she always brags about how she'll be earning way more than me.

Vet clinics make 95% of their income from medical/surgical consults and surgeries so I suppose there is less profitability there in comparison to a pair of specs. My gf's OD friends have told her it costs only around $50 for an optical store to buy a good pair of specs from china and they sell it for around $300-500, so a large profit margin I suppose. The downside is optoms have to endure opticians, whereas vet nurses would never question a vet.

The point is stop complaining about your salaries.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

What's all the fuss about pay here? $300/day equates to about $75,000/year. For a new grad that is alot. I'm a veterinary student and grads in our profession get around $45-55,000/ year. Even experienced vets can't earn more than 120k/year.

I always wonder how optical stores manage to keep paying their staff so much because majority of their income comes from spec sales. My partner is an optometry student and she always brags about how she'll be earning way more than me.

Vet clinics make 95% of their income from medical/surgical consults and surgeries so I suppose there is less profitability there in comparison to a pair of specs. My gf's OD friends have told her it costs only around $50 for an optical store to buy a good pair of specs from china and they sell it for around $300-500, so a large profit margin I suppose. The downside is optoms have to endure opticians, whereas vet nurses would never question a vet.

The point is stop complaining about your salaries.

Grab a calculator next time...

That actually is $72,000/yr, which really means ~$50K. And that's not accounting for school loans, malpractice, medical insurance, disabilty, etc.

I'm not saying everyone deserves the top 5% of high pay but everyone is not worth the same, especially if they're bringing in much more than $300/day in revenue! Why not just open a sweat shop with those rates??? Sheesh!

 

[Mixin Marc]

I agree with you 100% Doc, and I appreciate that you remember what its like knocking on the door.
I thought $500 a day didn't sound that exorbitant,
there may be some justification for holding back full compensation until you see what your getting for your money,
but at some point if your satisfied that you have a good associate that you can be proud to practice with,
then pay them what their worth.
OD's should not even be thinking how long can I low ball an OD or "just get another one"... as a way of doing business.
It doesn't even make any practical sense.

i agree.

500.00/day is what we should all be paid.

500.00/day x 5 days a week x 52 weeks/year = $$ 130,000.00

We should all get paid 130K at minimum. Maybe 165K or 200K!

 

[JAZZEYE]

i agree.

500.00/day is what we should all be paid.

500.00/day x 5 days a week x 52 weeks/year = $$ 130,000.00

We should all get paid 130K at minimum. Maybe 165K or 200K!

Amount of income is relative to where you live.
$130k in South Dakota is not a $130k in New York.

Income is not the absolute barometer of success,
your earning rate divided by your time,
must always be figured into the equation.
Personal satisfaction is priceless.

The OP mentioned she practices in North Jersey...
I believe NJ has one of the highest property tax rates in the country,
property ownership will be the most important investment you make in your lifetime,
when someday you begin adding up your net worth.
Dealing with North Jerseyans on a daily basis... oyyy! yea your right... maybe $165k -$200k is more reasonable.

 

[stonegoat]

I don't pay fixed daily rates...but rather a percentage of gross. I think paying for performance is better than the same pay whether you bust your butt or not. Work hard, take walk-ins, and establish positive and meaningful relationships with your patients and the money will follow.

Not all ODs are the same. Some stuggle to see 15 patients/day and fail to impress their patients. They don't make the big $$. Others are superstars, see lots of patients, who leave with a smile on their face. They have lots of potential to make money.

 

[KHE]

I don't pay fixed daily rates...but rather a percentage of gross. I think paying for performance is better than the same pay whether you bust your butt or not. Work hard, take walk-ins, and establish positive and meaningful relationships with your patients and the money will follow.

Not all ODs are the same. Some stuggle to see 15 patients/day and fail to impress their patients. They don't make the big $$. Others are superstars, see lots of patients, who leave with a smile on their face. They have lots of potential to make money.

I can only speak for myself but I would not enter an employee relationship that was based on production, for a number of reasons.

First of all, I did that once and all that happened as that the practice owner directed the lower paying vision plan patients and welfare cases my way.

Secondly, if I'm going to "bust my butt" it's going to be for my own practice, not to help grow someone elses.

That's only my personal philosophy. I have no problem with bonuses above a certain production level...that can certainly be beneficial for everyone involved but a straight percentage is not something I would ever do.

 

[stonegoat]

I can only speak for myself but I would not enter an employee relationship that was based on production, for a number of reasons.

First of all, I did that once and all that happened as that the practice owner directed the lower paying vision plan patients and welfare cases my way.

Secondly, if I'm going to "bust my butt" it's going to be for my own practice, not to help grow someone elses.

That's only my personal philosophy. I have no problem with bonuses above a certain production level...that can certainly be beneficial for everyone involved but a straight percentage is not something I would ever do.

I should have qualified that I guarantee an annual income of $100K for a minimum of 212 days work. That's a daily minimum rate of ~$472. I pay 23% of gross, and with that my associate has had some days where he has made ~$1200....I would say that's worth "busting your butt" for.

 

[achirum]

I should have qualified that I guarantee an annual income of $100K for a minimum of 212 days work. That's a daily minimum rate of ~$472. I pay 23% of gross, and with that my associate has had some days where he has made ~$1200....I would say that's worth "busting your butt" for.

Indeed.

 

[KHE]

I should have qualified that I guarantee an annual income of $100K for a minimum of 212 days work. That's a daily minimum rate of ~$472. I pay 23% of gross, and with that my associate has had some days where he has made ~$1200....I would say that's worth "busting your butt" for.

See, for me, it's not.

If you pay 23% of gross and he's making $1200, then that means that he grossed around $5500 for you. If I have the ability to gross that, I'm going to work for myself.

Now yes, I "get" that you have invested in and created the practice and it's not like you just open your doors and gross $5500 a day but I stand by my philosophy. If you're going to bust your butt, might as well bust it for yourself.

 

[achirum]

See, for me, it's not.

If you pay 23% of gross and he's making $1200, then that means that he grossed around $5500 for you. If I have the ability to gross that, I'm going to work for myself.

Now yes, I "get" that you have invested in and created the practice and it's not like you just open your doors and gross $5500 a day but I stand by my philosophy. If you're going to bust your butt, might as well bust it for yourself.

touche'

 

[stonegoat]

See, for me, it's not.

If you pay 23% of gross and he's making $1200, then that means that he grossed around $5500 for you. If I have the ability to gross that, I'm going to work for myself.

Now yes, I "get" that you have invested in and created the practice and it's not like you just open your doors and gross $5500 a day but I stand by my philosophy. If you're going to bust your butt, might as well bust it for yourself.

I guess you an I are different people. No matter who I work for, or what the job is, I bust my butt, and I always have. I liked working for a % as it was a challenge just to see how well I could do.

As for an associate working for him/herself...many or most will eventually do just that. But often in the first few years, it's good to cut your teeth in another practice before commiting to your own...and why not bust your butt while doing it??

 

[socal2014]

I guess you an I are different people. No matter who I work for, or what the job is, I bust my butt, and I always have.

Well said. I guess this is what distinguishes the average OD and the superstar OD's.

 

[KHE]

I guess you an I are different people. No matter who I work for, or what the job is, I bust my butt, and I always have.

Never said I wouldn't work hard for someone else because if a job is worth doing it's worth doing right but I always knew I wanted to be an owner and as such, if I'm going to be going the extra mile, it's not going to be to grown someone ELSE's business.

I liked working for a % as it was a challenge just to see how well I could do.

Nothing wrong with that but if you're going to challenge yourself to see how well you can do, you might as well make all the money instead of splitting it with some other owner OD.

As for an associate working for him/herself...many or most will eventually do just that. But often in the first few years, it's good to cut your teeth in another practice before commiting to your own...and why not bust your butt while doing it??

Any OD who plans well and engages themselves during school can easily learn just about all they could working for someone else for about 6 months. Anything more than that, you're just making the other guy rich. As long as you're all content to do that, have at it. Otherwise, strike out on your own.

 

[JAZZEYE]

This has turned into one of the more interesting threads I've seen on SDN in quite awhile...

 

[Oogilily]

This has turned into one of the more interesting threads I've seen on SDN in quite awhile...

Agreed!