Why are people so tentative about the 2015 MCAT?

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TangoDown

TangoDown

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I keep seeing people posting about how they want to fit in a billion courses in the course of a couple of semesters to avoid the 2015 MCAT. Now I know that it's going to have a psychology component as well as some Biochem. It also apparently has a new format.

Why are so many of these people trying to avoid it, hell or high water? Is it due to not having to invest time into taking Biochem/learning Biochem if one can take the 2014 MCAT?

I ask because I'll definitely be stuck taking the new, 2015 style MCAT given the fact that I couldn't make it into ANY science courses two semesters in a row (extreme impacting).

I apologize for the ignorance.
 
It's new. There are no materials or courses for it yet. People basically know nothing about it. Don't be surprised that people are apprehensive of the unknown.

Better to take it now when you know for sure of what you're up against.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
 
LaughingMan said:
From the people who've taken the 2013 Test--they all said the experimental passages were ridiculous.

That might be one reason?
Click to expand...

are you saying that the 2013 MCAT is getting harder, and some question types are shifting to more experimental-based ones, reflecting the types of questions on the 2015 MCAT?

or are you saying that the trial section has some crazy experimental things?
 
aspiring20 said:
are you saying that the 2013 MCAT is getting harder, and some question types are shifting to more experimental-based ones, reflecting the types of questions on the 2015 MCAT?

or are you saying that the trial section has some crazy experimental things?
Click to expand...

Experimental passages have always been on the MCAT. That's not new.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
 
It will also be a couple of hours longer. That in itself is a reason to try to avoid it if possible.

There will be new question types, and more questions to answer. The only bonus is that the writing sample (that nobody cared about anyway) is gone!

dsoz
 
The biggest problem I see is the lack of tested study materials for it. These will take a year or two to truly develop well. Of course, it is important to remember everyone will be in the same boat and Adcoms will be more than aware of the change.

Survivor DO
 
I'm trying my hardest not to get stuck with 2015. I'm seeing if I can squeeze by in Jan.


Sent from my iPad using SDN Mobile app.
 
Let's say you have to run an obstacle course in order to get into medical school. If you finish it you get accepted, but if you lose you don't and you waste time because you need to try again next year (let alone >6 hours taking the actual test), waste money for the test, and you also tarnish your application with a low score.

Now let's say that no one has ever run this obstacle course before. There are some pretty difficult hurdles you have to jump through, a ring of fire that might be too hot, and a bunch of mysterious obstacles you can't really prepare for. There is no one with any experience to guide you and no practice runs for you to take, so you are pretty much running this obstacle course dry.

Compare that to the MCAT now, which has many practice tests, is "tried and true", many people have already taken it and can give you study tips, advice, etc. Which would you rather take? If you had the choice, which would you choose?

Personally, I didn't take one psychology class in college...if I woulda had to take the 2015 MCAT, that woulda sucked.
 
Geebeejay said:
Let's say you have to run an obstacle course in order to get into medical school. If you finish it you get accepted, but if you lose you don't and you waste time because you need to try again next year (let alone >6 hours taking the actual test), waste money for the test, and you also tarnish your application with a low score.

Now let's say that no one has ever run this obstacle course before. There are some pretty difficult hurdles you have to jump through, a ring of fire that might be too hot, and a bunch of mysterious obstacles you can't really prepare for. There is no one with any experience to guide you and no practice runs for you to take, so you are pretty much running this obstacle course dry.

Compare that to the MCAT now, which has many practice tests, is "tried and true", many people have already taken it and can give you study tips, advice, etc. Which would you rather take? If you had the choice, which would you choose?

Personally, I didn't take one psychology class in college...if I woulda had to take the 2015 MCAT, that woulda sucked.
Click to expand...

If the 2015 crowd is hit with a completely different test, I would assume that scores across the board would reflect that - wouldn't they? If the acceptance rate is about the same in 2015, and the % of geniuses or people with photographic memories taking the MCAT is roughly the same (to factor in those who wouldn't have as much trouble with the new material as everyone else), then I would assume that the average baseline score could be lower.

Of course, scores could also be all over the place. I dunno.

Regardless, I'm purely spitting conjecture. I understand and agree with the logic behind your post. I just don't think that the 2015 MCAT poses doomsday for the majority of applicants who are committed to study in specific ways for the MCAT (MCAT review books, SDN tips, etc.)
 
TangoDown said:
If the 2015 crowd is hit with a completely different test, I would assume that scores across the board would reflect that - wouldn't they? If the acceptance rate is about the same in 2015, and the % of geniuses or people with photographic memories taking the MCAT is roughly the same (to factor in those who wouldn't have as much trouble with the new material as everyone else), then I would assume that the average baseline score could be lower.

Of course, scores could also be all over the place. I dunno.

Regardless, I'm purely spitting conjecture. I understand and agree with the logic behind your post. I just don't think that the 2015 MCAT poses doomsday for the majority of applicants who are committed to study in specific ways for the MCAT (MCAT review books, SDN tips, etc.)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I think the problem for most people is that there might not be reliable MCAT books for that first year. Everyone is going to be finding out what exactly the passage questions are like. Unless Kaplan or Princeton Review or whoever gets some inside info beforehand they'll be guessing until 2015 just like everyone else. Sure they can put the general principle outlines in their books but they won't know how the questions will be worded until they actually see the questions.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Unfortunately I think the problem for most people is that there might not be reliable MCAT books for that first year. Everyone is going to be finding out what exactly the passage questions are like. Unless Kaplan or Princeton Review or whoever gets some inside info beforehand they'll be guessing until 2015 just like everyone else. Sure they can put the general principle outlines in their books but they won't know how the questions will be worded until they actually see the questions.
Click to expand...

So like I surmised, wouldn't the average for test scores be lower across the the board as a result?
 
The overall scores in 2015 could be normalized to prior test scores, but I would guess there will be greater variability and uncertainty for each individual since you can't prepare like before. Now you can try to reduce your risk with preparation.
 
I have no idea what the MCAT will be like in 2015.


And luckily, I don't have to worry about it 😀
 
i think the worst thing about the test isn't the new psychology section, I think that its the fact that all the sections are going to be like 1.5 times longer. Its gonna be like what the old written test used to be in length from what i remember. I don't know why they decided to make the sections longer in addition to adding another section. I'd rather they had keep the writing section in if the changes were going to be that drastic.
 
The average MCAT score is increasing across the board, and the number of applicants per US MD seat available is also increasing (i.e the # of applications is increasing at a greater rate than # of seats available).

Thus, to preserve the meaningfulness of the MCAT, it HAS to get harder, and given that adcoms are typically looking for more well-rounded applicants these days, the MCAT (in my opinion) will also be adjusted to have greater scope.

Thoughts?
 
Geebeejay said:
Let's say you have to run an obstacle course in order to get into medical school. If you finish it you get accepted, but if you lose you don't and you waste time because you need to try again next year (let alone >6 hours taking the actual test), waste money for the test, and you also tarnish your application with a low score.

Now let's say that no one has ever run this obstacle course before. There are some pretty difficult hurdles you have to jump through, a ring of fire that might be too hot, and a bunch of mysterious obstacles you can't really prepare for. There is no one with any experience to guide you and no practice runs for you to take, so you are pretty much running this obstacle course dry.

Compare that to the MCAT now, which has many practice tests, is "tried and true", many people have already taken it and can give you study tips, advice, etc. Which would you rather take? If you had the choice, which would you choose?

Personally, I didn't take one psychology class in college...if I woulda had to take the 2015 MCAT, that woulda sucked.
Click to expand...

I like this analogy. But from my understanding, I thought the only major changes to the new MCAT were the addition of the psychology section and elimination of the writing section. So couldn't one still depend on old test prep books for the other sections? Or are those changing as well (besides becoming longer)?

Honestly, I'm not too worried about the psychology section as I'm a social science major, so I have some experience in the subject area. Then again, I really have no idea what these questions are going to be like, and neither does anyone else, so it is, as you said, a challenge you can't really prepare for. :lame:
 
Witty Knitter said:
I like this analogy. But from my understanding, I thought the only major changes to the new MCAT were the addition of the psychology section and elimination of the writing section. So couldn't one still depend on old test prep books for the other sections? Or are those changing as well (besides becoming longer)?

Honestly, I'm not too worried about the psychology section as I'm a social science major, so I have some experience in the subject area. Then again, I really have no idea what these questions are going to be like, and neither does anyone else, so it is, as you said, a challenge you can't really prepare for. :lame:
Click to expand...

This was my understanding too. And I've read that the only psychology that will be on the test is Intro Psych stuff... Nothing too crazy and quite honestly a lot of intro psych is common sense. I've read that there will be at least one or two full length practice tests released before the 2015 test. So even though we won't have as many practice tests as the people taking it before 2015, I think we'll still have a good idea of what the test is like and what to study
 
Some medical schools might disregard certain sections even after 2015.
 
TangoDown said:
So like I surmised, wouldn't the average for test scores be lower across the the board as a result?
Click to expand...

It may be lower across the board, but the trouble is that most of us don't know who will thrive and who will prosper. In general, your performance only matters relative to what others are performing. So even if scores remained about the same or decreased slightly across the board, it's difficult for many future test takers to determine if their scores will still be above the "competitive" median or whether they'll be one of the ones who gets hammered by the new format.

Whereas now there are a lot of resources to identify our weaknesses and prepare for them, many future test takers could be worried that they won't know if they'll be weak on this section or how they could even strengthen it like they could the other sections. Thus the widespread fear that you could be one of the "casualties."

Witty Knitter said:
I like this analogy. But from my understanding, I thought the only major changes to the new MCAT were the addition of the psychology section and elimination of the writing section. So couldn't one still depend on old test prep books for the other sections? Or are those changing as well (besides becoming longer)?

Honestly, I'm not too worried about the psychology section as I'm a social science major, so I have some experience in the subject area. Then again, I really have no idea what these questions are going to be like, and neither does anyone else, so it is, as you said, a challenge you can't really prepare for. :lame:
Click to expand...

When you consider that the difference of 3-4 points on the MCAT can be quite substantial, even one new section is enough to significantly change the game if you aren't able to keep up. Though no one has a great idea of what the new section will be like, inevitably some will thrive and others will wither; no one wants to be in the latter group.

Personally I'm glad these changes are coming. Unfortunately, it's likely that the first 2-3 years there will be some growing pains as everyone tries to get accomodated with the new format. However, I imagine that it will probably initially be treated similar to how the new SAT was treated when college admissions staff didn't quite know how to incorporate the new SAT Writing section. Most schools put less weight on this section and substantially greater weight on the math/verbal sections because they knew how to evaluate those.
 
What about when adcoms have to compare people who took the current MCAT vs the 2015 MCAT? The old MCAT people would have an Advantage wouldn't they?
 
DrHart said:
This was my understanding too. And I've read that the only psychology that will be on the test is Intro Psych stuff... Nothing too crazy and quite honestly a lot of intro psych is common sense. I've read that there will be at least one or two full length practice tests released before the 2015 test. So even though we won't have as many practice tests as the people taking it before 2015, I think we'll still have a good idea of what the test is like and what to study
Click to expand...

I think there will be more biochem incorporated into the bio/organic section. That is another big change.

All the changes are outlined in this document. https://www.aamc.org/students/download/266006/data/2015previewguide.pdf

dsoz
 
Last edited:
A7X said:
What about when adcoms have to compare people who took the current MCAT vs the 2015 MCAT? The old MCAT people would have an Advantage wouldn't they?
Click to expand...
not necessarily, the people with the highest scores will have the advantage.
 
dsoz said:
I think there will be more biochem incorporated into the bio/organic section. That is another big change.

All the changes are outlined in this document. https://www.aamc.org/students/download/266006/data/2015previewguide.pdf

dsoz
Click to expand...

Yes I'd think that too. They were already starting to do that back when I took it (I remember they had basically no straight orgo questions on my test). I just think they're going to be more straightforward about it now and emphasize the fact that students should focus on more biochem. It's better IMO because you need to know basically no orgo for medical school but right now I'm having to relearn all this biochem for Step 1...sucks.
 
applemac123 said:
The average MCAT score is increasing across the board, and the number of applicants per US MD seat available is also increasing (i.e the # of applications is increasing at a greater rate than # of seats available).

Thus, to preserve the meaningfulness of the MCAT, it HAS to get harder, and given that adcoms are typically looking for more well-rounded applicants these days, the MCAT (in my opinion) will also be adjusted to have greater scope.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's going to be that much harder (aside from being longer) but I do think part of the reason they do this MCAT format change thing every 13-14 years is because scores start moving up. A lot of MCAT prep is just being comfortable with answering the questions and the test formatting, so if you change that up every now and then you can throw enough people off their game to get your average scores back down once they start creeping up.
 
If I was planning on applying in the next 3 years, why wouldn't I take a no-writing, 3 section version instead of the unknown, longer 2015 version?
 
People are scared crapless, these days out aamcs barely predict our scores all that well due to the aamc increasing their difficulty. In 2015 there will be limited prep material and no one will know how to get a strong score except based on strong background knowledge.
 
aspiring20 said:
are you saying that the 2013 MCAT is getting harder, and some question types are shifting to more experimental-based ones, reflecting the types of questions on the 2015 MCAT?

or are you saying that the trial section has some crazy experimental things?
Click to expand...

People who take the 2013 MCAT have the option to volunteer to take a "trial section" at the end of the exam, which can include biochem, psych, and sociology questions. That's what is meant by experimental, not an "experimental" style of question.

Doctor Strange said:
Experimental passages have always been on the MCAT. That's not new.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
Click to expand...

The trial section is different from the experimental discretes and passages that have always been included in the exam.
 
Witty Knitter said:
I like this analogy. But from my understanding, I thought the only major changes to the new MCAT were the addition of the psychology section and elimination of the writing section. So couldn't one still depend on old test prep books for the other sections? Or are those changing as well (besides becoming longer)?

Honestly, I'm not too worried about the psychology section as I'm a social science major, so I have some experience in the subject area. Then again, I really have no idea what these questions are going to be like, and neither does anyone else, so it is, as you said, a challenge you can't really prepare for. :lame:
Click to expand...

This is the problem. I think most of us can agree that simply studying bio, phys, chem and orgo without any test prep or sample questions simply isn't enough. I think people are just worried about getting suckerpunched by this new test and ending up on the wrong side of a bad score. Maybe med schools will realize these problems and weigh this new section to be less important, but....maybe they won't
 
serenade said:
People are scared crapless, these days out aamcs barely predict our scores all that well due to the aamc increasing their difficulty. In 2015 there will be limited prep material and no one will know how to get a strong score except based on strong background knowledge.
Click to expand...

good thing you're taking the easy out and going DO huh? must be a relief.
 
not trollin. i wasn't trying to be sarcastic, i'm just saying its a relief. how is it a troll comment?! we had a little disagreement about delaying a few years to retake the MCAT for the MD route.
 
applemac123 said:
not trollin. i wasn't trying to be sarcastic, i'm just saying its a relief. how is it a troll comment?! we had a little disagreement about delaying a few years to retake the MCAT for the MD route.
Click to expand...

Omg but wait, this thread is about to get much more interesting. 😛opcorn:

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
 
I just took the MCAT a few days ago and my trial section was RIDICULOUSLY HARD. Mine was over biochem (which I'm in currently with near 100%), but the trial questions were off the wall. I was only completely sure on a couple of questions. Sure, with good prep books these questions might be just be as doable as the current MCAT, but when will they even come out?
 
sworzeh said:
I just took the MCAT a few days ago and my trial section was RIDICULOUSLY HARD. Mine was over biochem (which I'm in currently with near 100%), but the trial questions were off the wall. I was only completely sure on a couple of questions. Sure, with good prep books these questions might be just be as doable as the current MCAT, but when will they even come out?
Click to expand...

It must be ridiculously hard for people considering that Biochem isn't an official medical school pre-req to begin with. Same for psych!

:wtf:
 
Planes2Doc said:
It must be ridiculously hard for people considering that Biochem isn't an official medical school pre-req to begin with. Same for psych!

:wtf:
Click to expand...

It's almost guaranteed that schools will require biochemistry, psychology, and sociology by 2015.
 
applemac123 said:
not trollin. i wasn't trying to be sarcastic, i'm just saying its a relief. how is it a troll comment?! we had a little disagreement about delaying a few years to retake the MCAT for the MD route.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with the fact that on more than one occasion, in more than one thread, you sarcastically allude to people going the DO route in a tone that oozes disdain and pretentiousness.
 
Personally, I'm interested in a test where there won't be large amounts of students with Kaplan classes, etc... Sometimes I think those are the problem. People pay thousands to get an upper hand when they may not be the better student or future doctor. Luckily, I won't have to go through this but the results could be interesting. I think the test should be broken out anyway into aptitude and then specific material and separate the scores. Problem solving and abilities to answer universal questions is valuable in the workplace, especially in medicine, but something that many 4.0 students don't have.
 
jr93 said:
Personally, I'm interested in a test where there won't be large amounts of students with Kaplan classes, etc... Sometimes I think those are the problem. People pay thousands to get an upper hand when they may not be the better student or future doctor. Luckily, I won't have to go through this but the results could be interesting. I think the test should be broken out anyway into aptitude and then specific material and separate the scores. Problem solving and abilities to answer universal questions is valuable in the workplace, especially in medicine, but something that many 4.0 students don't have.
Click to expand...

If this test actually tested relevant life-skills, then I see your point about Kaplan classes.

Otherwise, it tests abstract things that have no bearing on your abilities as a physician. So in that case, people will continue to take these classes.
 
Planes2Doc said:
If this test actually tested relevant life-skills, then I see your point about Kaplan classes.

Otherwise, it tests abstract things that have no bearing on your abilities as a physician. So in that case, people will continue to take these classes.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they will because the classes work. That's kind of my point. I think many people are coached to good scores because they have the resources. Personally, I'd rather have an uncoached, natural 30-32 than someone that went crazy with prep work and got a 35-36. I think doctors should be good problem solvers with natural abilities. I say this because I've been an engineer for a long time and went back to school to enter medicine and met way too many 3.9 or 4.0 students who got coached to a good MCAT score but have terrible problem solving skills and probably couldn't have pulled a 3.3 in engineering. Really, I'm just interested in the results when people are on a semi-level playing field because I think "coached" scores have gotten out of hand.
 
TangoDown said:
That has nothing to do with the fact that on more than one occasion, in more than one thread, you sarcastically allude to people going the DO route in a tone that oozes disdain and pretentiousness.
Click to expand...

I think you're confusing me with someone else. No idea what you're talking about.
 
applemac123 said:
I think you're confusing me with someone else. No idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

In one thread, you attacked someone for going to a CC and implied that DO was their only chance.

Then in this thread, you say that DO is the easy way out.
 
TangoDown said:
In one thread, you attacked someone for going to a CC and implied that DO was their only chance.

Then in this thread, you say that DO is the easy way out.
Click to expand...

not arguing over the internet, but I think you are a little sensitive ol chap. MD adcoms (read LizzyM's posts) have noted many times that CC classes are looked upon unfavorably. DO tends to be a bit more lenient and draws a much more diverse class.

i don't think anyone will disagree with me here. have people gotten in that have graduated from CC? sure. but that number is a miniority and its definitely an uphill battle.
 
applemac123 said:
not arguing over the internet, but I think you are a little sensitive ol chap. MD adcoms (read LizzyM's posts) have noted many times that CC classes are looked upon unfavorably. DO tends to be a bit more lenient and draws a much more diverse class.

i don't think anyone will disagree with me here. have people gotten in that have graduated from CC? sure. but that number is a miniority and its definitely an uphill battle.
Click to expand...

Outstanding conjecture. And the passive aggressiveness really adds to your credibility as a mouthpiece for admissions standards in regards to transfer students.

Until you provide me with any quantifiable, wholly relevant statistics that prove that transfer students are at a universal disadvantage and that the majority of people who transfer to universities and graduate with similar marks to those who went to Uni for all 4 years will get into medical school at a much lower rate, then everything that you claim is just that - a claim.
 
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