Why are they so competitive?

[Lotsof77]

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I'm looking at this URL , which is for California ...

http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

... And I am confused as heck.

I know that these are the numbers from 2002-2003, and that they "may not be representative" of the whole Cali physician population, but com'on its only been 2-3 years, and they can't be that far off, relatively speaking ...

... So set me straight, plz : Why is gastroenterology, dermatology, ophthalmology, and emergency medicine so competitive? 😕 😕 😕 😕 😕

Com'on, they DON'T even MAKE the TOP 10 specialty, in terms of compensation. I believe #1, #2, and #3 are CT surgery, Neurosurgery, and Vascular surgery respectively...

... Does competitive = ease of finding job and =/= (not equal to) pay compensation after 3 yrs of practice?

 

[DrMom]

surgical specialties tend to have poorer lifestyles overall.

 

[Lotsof77]

So quality of life is a factor ...

... So then I'm extrapolating here a bit, but does this mean that competition for residency specialty is a function of the number of applicants to such fields as deemed by quality of life (DEMAND), the number of such spots available (SUPPLY), plus other factors not related to compensation?

 

[Boomer]

GI-procedural (high compensation) without the lifestyle of surgery.

Derm-9 to 5. No real emergencies. Very little "pro bono" work. Mostly insured patients. Enough procedures to boost income. Good lifestyle.

Optho-Money, money, money. MOOOONNNNEYY (in my best Pink Floyd voice). Again, lifestyle very good. Occasional emergency that gets you out of bed, but not as frequent as other surg types.

ER-shift work. Variety. Primary care with some procedures. NO CALL. When you leave, your work stays behind.

Those are the major good points that I can think of for the ones you mentioned.

 

[automaton]

it's a balance between money and effort. derm is the most competitive because you make a ton doing nothing. general surgery is less competitive because you make less money for working your ass off. family is least competitive because you work your ass off and buy groceries with food stamps.

GI: lots of money
ophthy: lots and lots of money, very few emergencies
derm: lots and lots of money, don't do squat
EM: good money but more importantly fixed hours, nice vacations, and no call. i guess it's exciting too for some people.

 

[Lotsof77]

Good Points you guys (and gal/mom/w/e) 👍

I am set straight.

I used to be very scared of neuroanatomy. Almost flunk the neuroanatomy section in undergrad anatomy. That was one of two stupidest ideas I've ever came up with, taking a third year course during second year.

Now that I've audited a course solely dedicated to neuroana, I find the basic stuff a breeze. I am even gaining a little interest in (haha) NEUROSURGERY!!!

Anyways, now that I've been warned of surgeons lifestyle, the only surgery i'll ever consider doing is neuro, for the love of it. But hey, what am I talking about... I'll be attending a Caribbean school. And NS is past impossible to attain coming from an IMG who isn't even a US citizen. Oh well. 🙁

 

[powermd]

I'm looking at this URL , which is for California ...

http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

... And I am confused as heck.

I know that these are the numbers from 2002-2003, and that they "may not be representative" of the whole Cali physician population, but com'on its only been 2-3 years, and they can't be that far off, relatively speaking ...

... So set me straight, plz : Why is gastroenterology, dermatology, ophthalmology, and emergency medicine so competitive? 😕 😕 😕 😕 😕

Com'on, they DON'T even MAKE the TOP 10 specialty, in terms of compensation. I believe #1, #2, and #3 are CT surgery, Neurosurgery, and Vascular surgery respectively...

... Does competitive = ease of finding job and =/= (not equal to) pay compensation after 3 yrs of practice?

Gee, I guess there must be more to life than money!

You must be a first or second year if you think financial compensation is the only factor that matters in making a specialty competitive. When you start spending 10, 12, 14, 24, or 30 hours straight in a hospital, day after day working in different specialties, then you will understand why CT surgery, neurosurgery, and vascular surgery are not fields that hoards of med students gravitate to. Most med students eventually warm up to the idea that having a life is more important than being in the top compensation bracket. Having said that, you are wrong about some of the specialties you mentioned being more competitive than the CT/NS/VS. Something you may not realize is that the population of people who pursue the most highly compensated fields self-selects for the highest achievers. Your average ER dude who loves medicine, but also loves time off, is not going to be turned on by a specialty that will have him spending 60-70 hours per week (or more) in the hospital doing a surgical subspecialty. Now your AOA plastics applicant who has kicked ass at everything he/she has ever done will have no problem slaving for 6-7 years at a killer program to become a plastic surgeon. There may be more people applying for ER, but I can guarantee you the average applicant to plastic surgery residency has much better paper credentials, making that field the more competitive one.

 

[Lotsof77]

Lol, I think the above post is outta context, since we were typing replies at the same time... But luckily, mine was posted first....

Anyways, I appreciate your comments. Thank you, have a nice day! 😉

 

[bigfrank]

The answer to your question will become more obvious to you as you complete the third year. I'm not trying to be snobby here, but you will see that Derm, while making less than the hard-core surgical specialties, will be compensated more per hour. So, again, lifestyle is a huge concern but so is your PER HOUR compensation.

You've heard this before but I'll belabor the point........what is good is all the money in the world if you don't have time to spend it??!!??

 

[Blade28]

The recent trend in residency applications is for med school seniors to favor lifestyle over pure earning power. "Lifestyle" fields such as derm, rads, gas, etc. are receiving more applications every year, while other fields (OB/GYN, peds, surg, etc.) tend to have lower applicant numbers. Then again, this year's Match had most programs filling in most areas, so maybe there are also an excessive number of applicants now as well.

 

[Lotsof77]

what is good is all the money in the world if you don't have time to spend it??!!??

Good point. Besides the point, but I recall Arnold Schwarzenegger saying that there is little left in what he makes after his wife gets through with it. 😛

Anyways, that'll probably be my scenario in the future too...

Lol, I still can't get it out of my head....

Our Only Option : To Take A Fit : Vanish , Get Valium And Hallucinate

O lfactory nerve - CN I
O ptics nerve - CN II
O culomotor nerve - CN III
T Trochlear nerve - CN IV
T Trigeminal nerve - CN V
A bducens nerve - CN VI
F acial nerve - CN VII
V estibulocochlear nerve - CN VIII
G lossopharyngeal nerve - CN IX
V agus nerve - CN X
A ccessory nerve - CN XI
H ypoglossal nerve - CN XII

Pretty cool, huh? Only I didn't invent it...

 

[backrow]

Lol, I still can't get it out of my head....

Our Only Option : To Take A Fit : Vanish , Get Valium And Hallucinate

O lfactory nerve - CN I
O ptics nerve - CN II
O culomotor nerve - CN III
T Trochlear nerve - CN IV
T Trigeminal nerve - CN V
A bducens nerve - CN VI
F acial nerve - CN VII
V estibulocochlear nerve - CN VIII
G lossopharyngeal nerve - CN IX
V agus nerve - CN X
A ccessory nerve - CN XI
H ypoglossal nerve - CN XII

Pretty cool, huh? Only I didn't invent it...

you can do better than that.....i seem to remember one referring to female anatomy that was quite popular 😀

 

[Lotsof77]

Lol, do tell ...

 

[Mediculous]

Oh, Oh, Oh, To Touch And Feel A Girl's Vagina, AH!

O lfactory nerve - CN I
O ptics nerve - CN II
O culomotor nerve - CN III
T Trochlear nerve - CN IV
T Trigeminal nerve - CN V
A bducens nerve - CN VI
F acial nerve - CN VII
A uditory nerve - CN VIII
G lossopharyngeal nerve - CN IX
V agus nerve - CN X
A ccessory nerve - CN XI
H ypoglossal nerve - CN XII

 

[Lotsof77]

Lol, that's sick. I think I'll stick with the other one, thank you.

 

[NIQ]

Surprised cardiology isn't on the list. Also very good pay and they're doing more and more procedures.

 

[Lotsof77]

Surprised cardiology isn't on the list. Also very good pay and they're doing more and more procedures.

It is, under Internal Medicine Specialties ---> Cardiology at 300,500 mean.

 

[heldicus]

Oh, Oh, Oh, To Touch And Feel A Girl's Vagina, AH!

O lfactory nerve - CN I
O ptics nerve - CN II
O culomotor nerve - CN III
T Trochlear nerve - CN IV
T Trigeminal nerve - CN V
A bducens nerve - CN VI
F acial nerve - CN VII
A uditory nerve - CN VIII
G lossopharyngeal nerve - CN IX
V agus nerve - CN X
A ccessory nerve - CN XI
H ypoglossal nerve - CN XII

alternate: ...to touch and feel virgin girls' vaginas and hymens (makes use of vestibulocochlear)

And on the topic of dermatology and emergencies, to quote from Scrubs: "Move it people! Dermatologist coming through, skin emergency! Move!"

 

[nala]

Oh, Oh, Oh, To Touch And Feel A Girl's Vagina, AH!

O lfactory nerve - CN I
O ptics nerve - CN II
O culomotor nerve - CN III
T Trochlear nerve - CN IV
T Trigeminal nerve - CN V
A bducens nerve - CN VI
F acial nerve - CN VII
A uditory nerve - CN VIII
G lossopharyngeal nerve - CN IX
V agus nerve - CN X
A ccessory nerve - CN XI
H ypoglossal nerve - CN XII

I learned: Oh, Oh, Oh, To Touch And Feel A Genuine Virgin At Home
learned it 8 years ago - still remember it!

 

[UCSBMed1]

I learned: Oh, Oh, Oh, To Touch And Feel A Genuine Virgin At Home
learned it 8 years ago - still remember it!

Does anyone still use these mnemonics after 1st year anatomy? I've found taking neuroanatomy, neurology, and seeing patients (i.e. doing neuro exams) that these CNs are ingrained in my head--with actual facts about the nerve and not some corny line. Sorry if I rained on anyone's fun, just wanted to know if any other 2nd years and beyond still use these...

 

[Discobolus]

One of my friends gross lab partners was named Virginia. So we often used the mnemonic "Oh, Oh, Oh, to touch and feel Virginia's glorious vagina and hooters"