Why aren't there countless threads on Pharmacy Debt?

[StraightShooter]

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DISCLAIMER: I am not comparing careers, just wanted to compare debts, because at my school at least, most people talk about how they will make bank in pharmacy, take on less debt than med school. So it got me thinking and I wanted to discuss.

Just curious, we talk about medical school debt so often, and I was wondering why there aren't comparable threads in the pharm forum about debt?

I understand that its only 4 years of school(pharm), and usually if you want a hospital job, 2 years of residency. But most just do the 4 and make ~70K starting from what I've seen. And a lot more are opting out for residency.[Not trying to start a sky is falling argument]

Tuition for a state med school is $26,000/year for first two, then 37,000 the next two.
Tuition for a state pharmacy school is $25,000/year all 4 years.

Assuming room/board, food, etc, are all equivalent, the only real difference in cost is tuition.

So its a comparison of 100K to 126K. 26K is a good amount of change,granted these numbers will vary, this gives some basis... but still, just curious as to why I hardly hear pre-pharm students gripe about debt, whereas pre-med we are all very concerned.

 

[deleted307836]

The times I've perused the pharmacy forums, I've seen some interesting discussions on debt, the job market, compensation, and loans. I don't think they're neglecting it.

The pharmacy profession has a lot of problems with it that seem to be getting worse.

But really, why are you asking us? Most people here don't care about what's happening with pharmacy.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I'm pretty sure they're worried too.

 

[sinombre]

The times I've perused the pharmacy forums, I've seen some interesting discussions on debt, the job market, compensation, and loans. I don't think they're neglecting it.

The pharmacy profession has a lot of problems with it that seem to be getting worse.

But really, why are you asking us? Most people here don't care about what's happening with pharmacy.

I'm pretty sure they're worried too.

+1

Also, many medical students go to private schools, where tuition is close to 50k per year. We also have longer residencies where we'll be making a whole lot less than 70k (i.e. we won't be able to make significant payments on our loans), which means significantly more interest.

 

[yehhhboiii]

There are a ton of hidden costs to medical school like all those exams (Step 2 CS costing 1.2k lol) or you do an away at a different school for a month which costs several thousand. You're vastly underestimating the cost of medical school. Most state schools are around 34k while private schools are leaping towards 60k. You can only get like 40k per year of Stafford loans at 6.8% and above that, there's a 7.9% interest rate (absurd). Applying to residencies and attending all those interviews can easily cost thousands. Every time you move, you have to find housing and get furniture, etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Narmerguy]

DISCLAIMER: I am not comparing careers, just wanted to compare debts, because at my school at least, most people talk about how they will make bank in pharmacy, take on less debt than med school. So it got me thinking and I wanted to discuss.

Just curious, we talk about medical school debt so often, and I was wondering why there aren't comparable threads in the pharm forum about debt?

I understand that its only 4 years of school(pharm), and usually if you want a hospital job, 2 years of residency. But most just do the 4 and make ~70K starting from what I've seen. And a lot more are opting out for residency.[Not trying to start a sky is falling argument]

Tuition for a state med school is $26,000/year for first two, then 37,000 the next two.
Tuition for a state pharmacy school is $25,000/year all 4 years.

Assuming room/board, food, etc, are all equivalent, the only real difference in cost is tuition.

So its a comparison of 100K to 126K. 26K is a good amount of change,granted these numbers will vary, this gives some basis... but still, just curious as to why I hardly hear pre-pharm students gripe about debt, whereas pre-med we are all very concerned.

You're asking us to speculate why another forum doesn't talk about something that we know little or nothing about? 😕 Even the SDN pre-allo population isn't representative of most premeds in the country, I imagine the same is true for the pharmacy forums. Either way, I think we are in no position to try to speculate why another forum, with it's own particular culture, doesn't talk about things which we know very little about.

 

[futureczar]

There are several things wrong with your initial post.

1. Look of average salary for a pharmacist and then compare it to your 70k. Retail pharmacists in my area make 120k, and you can make that as a new grad.
2. Pharmacy is shift work (usually). This means that new grads can make 100k working 40 hours a week. If you need more money you can get another job to supplement your income. You also make more working evenings/weekends/overnigh. I know pharmacists that make 200k who work seven days a week.
2. Pharmacy school can be 6 years if you do it out of high school, and there are a lot of schools with the 6 year program so its pretty common for someone to be out of school at the age of 22-24.
3. Most hospital jobs do NOT require a 2 year residency. Doing two years is for people who want to specialize is a specific field and become a clinical pharmacist. Some hospitals may look to hire grads with one year of residency experience but this is not the norm.

The biggest problem with pharmacy currently is oversaturation. There was a huge demand 10 years back and a lot of new schools opened. Now the market is being flooded with pharmacists.

 

[Carboxide]

Trust me, we ARE worried. But in a lot of areas, we are better off than med students because our residencies - if we do them - are simply shorter. 7 years of not being able to pay down loans is a LOT worse than 2 (max).

Also, your 70k figure is way off. 6 figures is expected and depending on the area, starting can be ~120k/yr plus OT. (We don't work for free....we get paid time and a half for hours over 40 in retail and hospital staffing. Clinical pharmacists are typically salaried, though.)

My debt is closer to 200k than 100k, and yeah - it's not something I'm thrilled about. But the latest I'll be pulling a paycheck is 2 years after graduation - and I'll probably be making more than a PCP or peds doc at that point. I'll just be able to pay a bunch down hopefully before I want to have a family/etc.

 

[notbobtrustme]

The concern with med school debt has more to do with specialty choice rather than paying it off. Pharmacists, for the most part, hit a ceiling and stay there. Physicians can choose their ceilings and this has implications for the rest of the healthcare landscape. Why earn 150k/year when you can earn 300k/year?

 

[chillaxbro]

Pharmacy will be replaced by robot pill dispensers in 15 years anyway
Doctors will be replaced by Watson in 20 years

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Trust me, we ARE worried. But in a lot of areas, we are better off than med students because our residencies - if we do them - are simply shorter. 7 years of not being able to pay down loans is a LOT worse than 2 (max).

Also, your 70k figure is way off. 6 figures is expected and depending on the area, starting can be ~120k/yr plus OT. (We don't work for free....we get paid time and a half for hours over 40 in retail and hospital staffing. Clinical pharmacists are typically salaried, though.)

My debt is closer to 200k than 100k, and yeah - it's not something I'm thrilled about. But the latest I'll be pulling a paycheck is 2 years after graduation - and I'll probably be making more than a PCP or peds doc at that point. I'll just be able to pay a bunch down hopefully before I want to have a family/etc.

You seem a lot more optimistic about the job market than most of the pharm people I've talked to. Obviously, I don't know your specific situation, but I don't think it's fair to say that this is the norm for most new grads.

 

[Carboxide]

You seem a lot more optimistic about the job market than most of the pharm people I've talked to. Obviously, I don't know your specific situation, but I don't think it's fair to say that this is the norm for most new grads.

It is still the norm for new grads who get a job. The job market is down for pharmacy...but most salaries have not decreased. I don't know anyone who graduated last year from my school who went jobless.

 

[KnuxNole]

Why would there be a pharmacy threads on a medical school board? You shouldn't be surprised 😛

 

[thesauce]

Trust me, we ARE worried. But in a lot of areas, we are better off than med students because our residencies - if we do them - are simply shorter. 7 years of not being able to pay down loans is a LOT worse than 2 (max).

Also, your 70k figure is way off. 6 figures is expected and depending on the area, starting can be ~120k/yr plus OT. (We don't work for free....we get paid time and a half for hours over 40 in retail and hospital staffing. Clinical pharmacists are typically salaried, though.)

My debt is closer to 200k than 100k, and yeah - it's not something I'm thrilled about. But the latest I'll be pulling a paycheck is 2 years after graduation - and I'll probably be making more than a PCP or peds doc at that point. I'll just be able to pay a bunch down hopefully before I want to have a family/etc.

This is contradictory

 

[Carboxide]

This is contradictory

You're right. I have heard a lot of horror stories of peds docs making <100k and didn't fact check...looks like they tend to start out around 140 or so.

 

[45408]

You're right. I have heard a lot of horror stories of peds docs making <100k and didn't fact check...looks like they tend to start out around 140 or so.

That's averaging out the country, and you have to realize that desirable places to live can offer lower salaries. Nobody has to twist a pediatrician's arm to come work in SoCal, so the salaries there (which has a high COL) will actually be lower. $120K could easily be more than they're making.