why can't i seem to get A's in any of my pre-med courses?

[bearpaw]

no offense taken or meant to be given. i didn't think you were bragging, but i just wanted to set straight a reason why certain schools are perceived to be better. a lot of people on this board try to imply that all schools are good and that state schools are the same as top privates, so while i have nothing else to do i figure i may as well combat that myth.

when i said don't brag, i meant that in a condescending and joking manner, not an insinuation that you were actually bragging. i was being a jerk, because that's funnier than being polite all the time. I know canadian students go US schools, my cousin went to havard, so i figured they all took the sat. That's how schools are compared in this country. you cannot compare schools otherwise.

you're right, i know nothing of UBC. but the burdeon of understanding is on you if you're applying to american schools to see how you measure up with US applicants.
goodluck.

---

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[IndyZX]

I remember I had around 89% on my BIO II but the professor gave me an A!

I'd have a solid 3.0 if 89s weren't rounded up.

 

[liverotcod]

Well, after two weeks of orgo there isn't much you can ask. If you go to the later exams, there is a very very heavy emphasis on synthesis questions and problem solving. Even more so in orgo II.

True. Having attended Harvard and a state school, I would have to agree with the rest of your statement, too. I would also agree that the average student at Harvard was equivalent in intellectual capacity (exercised or not) to the top students where I go now. For most of my Harvard days, I didn't exercise my intellectual ability, unfortunately.

 

[UCdannyLA]

I believe that an important factor is where you go to school.

I was getting the top scores on all science exams at Rutgers University (which is a pretty decent university, IMHO)

However I transfer to UCLA and I find myself having to study 2x as much just to get B+/A- level grades.

It's definitely not fair.

Some people boast of their 3.9 GPAs...but where did they go to school? Even renowned schools like Harvard and Yale have massive grade inflation.

If you have a 3.9 from schools with cutthroat competition and no grade inflation (i.e. Johns Hopkins, UCLA, UCBerkeley, U of Chicago, Columbia, etc.) then you get my respect.

It's weird. Had a 3.9 at Rutgers with ease...come to UCLA and would be happy to get a 3.6-3.7.

 

[Cerberus]

Leave it to premeds to turn this into a "my school is harder" pissing contest....

 

[Cerberus]

and I just looked at the MIT exam and it isnt any easier than the organic exams i've seen at my lowly state school.

 

[musiclink213]

i looked at hte MIT exams, they're nearly identical to the ones that i've taken at my school, which is nowhere near a top 20. the only difference is MIT likes to use the skeletal diagrams, and my prof. doesn't like them. so why do people consider MIT exams to be so hard?

 

[Nuel]

You have it easy. Although it varies class to class, most schools go by:
93-100 A
90-92 A-
87-89 B+
83-86 B
80-82 B-
77-79 C+
73-76 C
etc
For upper level science classesat my school, most are done on a bell curve. Although, I'm not sure if this is true for everyone.

UBC is in Canada.

Try schooling in UK and you will know how hard it is to score a 90 on properly taught course. Coming to America, it has been easier to get 90 or so.

 

[Nuel]

Talking about organic exams, my prof and I pulled of a final at Rutgers and I started laughing--perfect scores should have been abundant on that exam. On our exams, for instance, we were usually given an NMR, IR, UV and mass spec for some compound--no hints!!! We then had to figure the structure as well as constituent elements then synthesize that compound from a ground compound. I learnt organic the hard way that when I saw o-chem passages on the MCAT, I usually breathed a sigh of relief from genetics. Well, I had only 2 o-chem passages last April.

 

[kiki the alto]

I work as a tutor at my school's Learning Assistance Center, and I can tell you that getting A's is really hard in a lot of classes that premeds have to take. The classes themselves aren't that bad, but sometimes you drown in the sheer number of students in them. General Bio is a great example. I agree with one of the first responders who said to go bug the crap out of your profs and really spend time on it. They say that the key is to make sure you look at things at least four times before a test. Also, check out what's going wrong on your tests...you may know the stuff but you may have serious test issues.

 

[Nuel]

and I just looked at the MIT exam and it isnt any easier than the organic exams i've seen at my lowly state school.

That exam is very very doable !!!

Of course I don't go to a top 50, but I think the difficulty of courses depends on the prof. I have had very easy classes and relatively hard-ass classes where an A was 80% and above--Multivariable calc comes to mind here.

 

[Fish3715]

Of course I don't go to a top 50, but I think the difficulty of courses depends on the prof.

This is true for the vast majority of classes at my school. I'll ask the upper-classmen should I take a certain class or not and the first thing out of their mouth is "who's teaching it?"

 

[kikkoman]

i looked at hte MIT exams, they're nearly identical to the ones that i've taken at my school, which is nowhere near a top 20. the only difference is MIT likes to use the skeletal diagrams, and my prof. doesn't like them. so why do people consider MIT exams to be so hard?

Take one. Sit down, and do it for 50 minutes. Grade it. That's why it is so hard.

It doesn't matter what orgo test you look at, they all "look" the same. Some are a lot harder to do.

 

[BananaSplit]

Can y'all stop the thread hijacking and get back to giving tips for the OP.

I had a rough time during my first year....partly due to poor time management, partly due to family issues out of my control. I didn't get a single A that first year. During my second year, I got a daily planner, and I scheduled time for everything. And I mean everything.

7:00 Wake up, take shower, brush teeth, etc. Grab breakfast.
8:00 Attend lecture, eat breakfast (You weren't supposed to eat in class, but I needed the food to stay awake)
9:30 Run errands, eat
12: Attend lab
4: Flexible time/ Buffer time
5: Eat/study O. Chem
6: Physics HW
8: Buffer
8:30 Watch TV
9:00 Research for paper
10:00: Eat snack/brush teeth
10:15: Review lecture notes (this can be re-reading and highlighting, or some people like to re-copy, or some people like to condense their notes)
12:00 Bedtime!

IMHO time management is the most important tool you have in college because nobody is going to tell you what and when you have to get something done. A lot of people make a schedule and then once they miss something, or go over the alloted time, they just say "Ah, screw it! I'll never catch up!" So the key is to have flexible time/buffer time to allow yourself to catch up, or if you don't have anything to catch up on, use it as a reward and do something fun.

My other piece of advice is to study in a place with NO DISTRACTIONS. Find a cubby in the library where you're unlikely to be bothered, where nobody will drop by to chat. I particularly like libraries that have nothing to do with my major or interests so I won't get bored and wonder around. Also, if you're easily distracted or annoyed by sounds (such as the humming of the air conditioning or the pencil tapping of the guy in the next cubby), I would suggest getting earplugs.

For years 2-4 of college, I had a great time and got great grades. I never felt guilty when I was out with friends because I had planned that time (and I never thought "Oh, I really should be working on my project." while I was out with them). And the greatest accomplishment of my college career was not just turning my grades around, but doing it while getting 7-8 hours of sleep/night, having a social life, and time for ECs.

 

[Offear]

About the MIT O-Chem exam... It looked about as equally hard to the ones we have here, at a state university (UW-Madison), albeit one of the best state U's IMHO, only we never have multiple choice anything on any of our exams.

And I really agree that most of pre-med classes are weed-out. The advisors here will straight out tell you that organic chem is weed out, and once you get past that and physics, you are in ok condition.

I actually can't wait to get to my upper level classes. ( Well, except for my psych classes, in which the entire department follows a set curve...every class. 15% A, 5% AB, 25% B, 10% BC, 30% C, 10% D, and 5% F) It's classes like that that really irritate me sometimes, because even if you do well on all of the exams, you just cannot get an A due to the professor only giving out so many of them. For instance, I took a psych class last year, and had a 93 (total points out of 100) at the end of the year. Because the class only had 60 people in it, only 9 could get an A and they had A's higher than my 93, so I ended up with an AB. No grade inflation here at all.

Seriously, I've taken two different stats classes now, and I really don't see why that damn bell curve is all that great. It can be really hard when you feel like your professors don't want you to do well.

 

[bearpaw]

Can y'all stop the thread hijacking and get back to giving tips for the OP.

I had a rough time during my first year....partly due to poor time management, partly due to family issues out of my control. I didn't get a single A that first year. During my second year, I got a daily planner, and I scheduled time for everything. And I mean everything.

7:00 Wake up, take shower, brush teeth, etc. Grab breakfast.
8:00 Attend lecture, eat breakfast (You weren't supposed to eat in class, but I needed the food to stay awake)
9:30 Run errands, eat
12: Attend lab
4: Flexible time/ Buffer time
5: Eat/study O. Chem
6: Physics HW
8: Buffer
8:30 Watch TV
9:00 Research for paper
10:00: Eat snack/brush teeth
10:15: Review lecture notes (this can be re-reading and highlighting, or some people like to re-copy, or some people like to condense their notes)
12:00 Bedtime!

IMHO time management is the most important tool you have in college because nobody is going to tell you what and when you have to get something done. A lot of people make a schedule and then once they miss something, or go over the alloted time, they just say "Ah, screw it! I'll never catch up!" So the key is to have flexible time/buffer time to allow yourself to catch up, or if you don't have anything to catch up on, use it as a reward and do something fun.

My other piece of advice is to study in a place with NO DISTRACTIONS. Find a cubby in the library where you're unlikely to be bothered, where nobody will drop by to chat. I particularly like libraries that have nothing to do with my major or interests so I won't get bored and wonder around. Also, if you're easily distracted or annoyed by sounds (such as the humming of the air conditioning or the pencil tapping of the guy in the next cubby), I would suggest getting earplugs.

For years 2-4 of college, I had a great time and got great grades. I never felt guilty when I was out with friends because I had planned that time (and I never thought "Oh, I really should be working on my project." while I was out with them). And the greatest accomplishment of my college career was not just turning my grades around, but doing it while getting 7-8 hours of sleep/night, having a social life, and time for ECs.

[bows down in awe] You truly are the biggest gunner I have ever seen. I am really in awe. Here was my schedule in college:

7am:sleeping
10am: woke up for a second, thought about looking at some porn, back to sleep
11am: awake. looks at girlfriend (whoever it is at the time). tells her to go to class. lies down, pretends to be asleep.
11:30: gf gone, gets out of bed, showers and stuff. no breakfast, we're late!
12:30: didn't actually leave, something came up. zone out.
2:30: ate something, somehow, somewhere. Now in library.
4:30: starts doing work
4:31: mad hungry
6:00: F this, goes to eat
7:00: back studying
9:00: going to take a 5 minute break
9:06: already home
9:07:looking at porn
9:10: calls girlfriend to come over
11pm: lies to girlfriend "i have to go do something", later am drunk somewhere
3 am: passes out. I talked to my parents everyday, usually between 11 and 3am. I have no idea what my mom was saying.

If I were going to the gym that day, replace studying with the gym. If it was a nice day, replace everything with "zoning out". if there was a test, i would go study again after 11pm and zone out woudl be replaced with studying.

If you want to get you s#@ together, go with the schedule the girl provided. sleep is key, but so is working. You need to have a schedule, that way you won't spend 3 hours folding your clothes. Or "checking you email". If you're a guy, i know, her schedule is impossible. In that case, basically try mine with this variant: when you have an exam, lets say on tuesday, that means you study on friday and saturday all day (but party at night), then study all day sunday and monday. You should pull one near all nighter (two or three hour sleep), if you do it on sunday you'll be fresh for tuesday.

The variant i added pulled my gpa from a 2.95 to a 3.8.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

Are you sure you're not a business major?

(Running joke)

 

[jacksonchan85]

I totally agree with you - it really does feel like profs are out to get you sometimes or TA's for that matter...no matter how hard you try, you don't get the marks...totally deflating and depressing
that's how I feel all the time

About the MIT O-Chem exam... It looked about as equally hard to the ones we have here, at a state university (UW-Madison), albeit one of the best state U's IMHO, only we never have multiple choice anything on any of our exams.

And I really agree that most of pre-med classes are weed-out. The advisors here will straight out tell you that organic chem is weed out, and once you get past that and physics, you are in ok condition.

I actually can't wait to get to my upper level classes. ( Well, except for my psych classes, in which the entire department follows a set curve...every class. 15% A, 5% AB, 25% B, 10% BC, 30% C, 10% D, and 5% F) It's classes like that that really irritate me sometimes, because even if you do well on all of the exams, you just cannot get an A due to the professor only giving out so many of them. For instance, I took a psych class last year, and had a 93 (total points out of 100) at the end of the year. Because the class only had 60 people in it, only 9 could get an A and they had A's higher than my 93, so I ended up with an AB. No grade inflation here at all.

Seriously, I've taken two different stats classes now, and I really don't see why that damn bell curve is all that great. It can be really hard when you feel like your professors don't want you to do well.

 

[bearpaw]

About the MIT O-Chem exam... It looked about as equally hard to the ones we have here, at a state university (UW-Madison), albeit one of the best state U's IMHO, only we never have multiple choice anything on any of our exams.

And I really agree that most of pre-med classes are weed-out. The advisors here will straight out tell you that organic chem is weed out, and once you get past that and physics, you are in ok condition.

I actually can't wait to get to my upper level classes. ( Well, except for my psych classes, in which the entire department follows a set curve...every class. 15% A, 5% AB, 25% B, 10% BC, 30% C, 10% D, and 5% F) It's classes like that that really irritate me sometimes, because even if you do well on all of the exams, you just cannot get an A due to the professor only giving out so many of them. For instance, I took a psych class last year, and had a 93 (total points out of 100) at the end of the year. Because the class only had 60 people in it, only 9 could get an A and they had A's higher than my 93, so I ended up with an AB. No grade inflation here at all.

Seriously, I've taken two different stats classes now, and I really don't see why that damn bell curve is all that great. It can be really hard when you feel like your professors don't want you to do well.

perhaps with 40,000 students, they don't care if you do well. take the exams. take all of them. so easy right? i didn't even look at it, i know its hard mofo. "oh yeah, i would have gotten that one right".

its an orgo test. you've taken orgo, you can recognize it. but that does not mean it will be easy. But if everyone at MIT can't get perfect, why does every average kid on this site think that they'd do ok on the test? MIT's math sat is 800-760, meaning over 25% had perfect math. If you didn't, i am sure these tests would be difficult for you. Enough that your state college A would be an MIT C-.

 

[IndyZX]

they should convert my AMCAS gpa to a 2.1 when i apply this year. its only fair to those kids with math SATS between 760-800...

 

[logos]

Look...these premed classes arent hard per se...however professors often make them harder than the material itself is. To combat this you need to know what kind of professor you have. If you have a prof thats really into having a perfect curve, then you need to be more detail oriented. Reading the prof. will give you a lot of information on what will be on the test. This is the value of attending class...I could learn all of the material for my classes from the book and never attend class if I wanted, but by going to class I can discern what the professor thinks is important and whats not and use that info to study less. My suggestion to the OP is to think about how you study the material for your classes. I've found that I do very poorly if I just study the material, however, if I study the material by quizzing myself, I do extreamely well. For bio. type "memorize it all" classes i just sit with my notes explaining them to myself...by the time i'm ready for the test...i could probably give a lecture on all of the materail because i've explained every detail to myself multiple times. For the math/gen chem/ochem/biochem type classes you need to get a ton of scrap paper and do problems/draw structures until you can do them without fail.

As far as the top 20 or whatever being better than other schools...frankly...after seeing a couple of those ochem tests...dosent seem any harder than my state school....they just have to do more memorize and regurgitate than we do. Our tests usually center around synthetic problems...a blank page with a molecule in the corner....you just do a retrosynthetic analysis and show a synthesis at the bottom of the page. But you'll have variation like that everywhere....some profs focus on knowing all of the details...others on understanding and using the material.

 

[Offear]

perhaps with 40,000 students, they don't care if you do well. take the exams. take all of them. so easy right? i didn't even look at it, i know its hard mofo. "oh yeah, i would have gotten that one right".

its an orgo test. you've taken orgo, you can recognize it. but that does not mean it will be easy. But if everyone at MIT can't get perfect, why does every average kid on this site think that they'd do ok on the test? MIT's math sat is 800-760, meaning over 25% had perfect math. If you didn't, i am sure these tests would be difficult for you. Enough that your state college A would be an MIT C-.

Damn, someone is wearing his sassy pants today. If you read what I actually said, I never said that I would do well on that exam. O-Chem is not my forte. All i said was that it was comparable difficulty. And I'm pretty sure that unless you have attended college here, you would not know what it is like.

Congrats to the kids that went/go to MIT, it's an awesome school. But not everyone can go to MIT or Harvard, etc, or even want to for that matter. Some people have responsibilites that keep them close to home that are not school related. Some people can not simply afford a private school that has a tuition that is more than twice their state university's tuition. Some people just don't think that a school like that is a good match for them. All of those apply to me, and I'm sure those reasons apply to other people, as well.

And what you said to OP about his schedule, if that works for him, it's what works for him. Everyone is different! Who are you to flame him if that's what makes him successful? That was the point of this thread, to offer advice to someone and instead it has just turned into a giant arguement about what school is better than the next and people flaming each other.

And BTW, it's approximately 29,000 undergrads here, not 40,000. About 45, 000 including all of the grad schools, med school and law schools.

 

[omarsaleh66]

Hey here are some tips to ace premed and med school classes.

1. Go to lecture and just actively listen. Many times we are so busy taking notes that we dont absorb anyhting in class. Luckilly in med school, u get scribes so u dont have to take notes, but if u can just listen and get notes from a friend this can help alot.

2. Start studying early, a little bit everyday instead of cramming. U can retain alot and the day before the exam should just be easy review.

3. Have a little list, "Sh1t I dont know or I gotta memorize" so when u are lookin at stuff for the second , third time and still not remembering it, write it down so u can look at it right before the test so u dont forget it. Each time u see this list, it should get shorter and shorter

4. make sure u see everything one last time before the test. Like the day before. Recall is important. U might have known it 3 weeks before, doenst mean ull remember it before the test.

5.If u have a test every month, then review the first week material that frist weekend, then week 1 and 2 the second weekend, week 1,2,3, the third weekend, and so on, so by the test u've seen the material so many times, u can teach that ish.

6. Do as many practice problems, tests, as u can, This teaches u alot more than u think, after a while u can predict answers to the real tests becuase u have taken so many tests. Learn from the practice tests, and see why u are getting this stuff wrong.

7. Integrate.. premed subjects are all related, make links in ur head and then u'll truly understand everything and its gonna be so easy


these are some tips that med students use to get A's so Im sure u will kill the premed classes and have an easier time when u start med school

later

Omar

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

Enough that your state college A would be an MIT C-.

That's why the guy with an A from the state school gets a better MCAT score than the guy with a C- from MIT, right?

 

[lealf-ye]

The MIT Orgo exams are confidence boaster. They are too easy.

 

[canada]

The MIT Orgo exams are confidence boaster. They are too easy.

wow, the exams are easier than what we get at mcgill. i thought they would be harder! what a surprise!

 

[DD214_DOC]

Oh my god, the MIT exam is almost exactly like the ones I have been taking for a semester. The only difference being we didn't get practice exams posted online before the tests.

 

[maoeris]

Can y'all stop the thread hijacking and get back to giving tips for the OP.

I had a rough time during my first year....partly due to poor time management, partly due to family issues out of my control. I didn't get a single A that first year. During my second year, I got a daily planner, and I scheduled time for everything. And I mean everything.

7:00 Wake up, take shower, brush teeth, etc. Grab breakfast.
8:00 Attend lecture, eat breakfast (You weren't supposed to eat in class, but I needed the food to stay awake)
9:30 Run errands, eat
12: Attend lab
4: Flexible time/ Buffer time
5: Eat/study O. Chem
6: Physics HW
8: Buffer
8:30 Watch TV
9:00 Research for paper
10:00: Eat snack/brush teeth
10:15: Review lecture notes (this can be re-reading and highlighting, or some people like to re-copy, or some people like to condense their notes)
12:00 Bedtime!

IMHO time management is the most important tool you have in college because nobody is going to tell you what and when you have to get something done. A lot of people make a schedule and then once they miss something, or go over the alloted time, they just say "Ah, screw it! I'll never catch up!" So the key is to have flexible time/buffer time to allow yourself to catch up, or if you don't have anything to catch up on, use it as a reward and do something fun.

My other piece of advice is to study in a place with NO DISTRACTIONS. Find a cubby in the library where you're unlikely to be bothered, where nobody will drop by to chat. I particularly like libraries that have nothing to do with my major or interests so I won't get bored and wonder around. Also, if you're easily distracted or annoyed by sounds (such as the humming of the air conditioning or the pencil tapping of the guy in the next cubby), I would suggest getting earplugs.

For years 2-4 of college, I had a great time and got great grades. I never felt guilty when I was out with friends because I had planned that time (and I never thought "Oh, I really should be working on my project." while I was out with them). And the greatest accomplishment of my college career was not just turning my grades around, but doing it while getting 7-8 hours of sleep/night, having a social life, and time for ECs.

You don't need that much time to succeed. I supported myself all through college. For the most part I did alright. Here are some things that worked for me...
1)schedule classes that balance each other. I'm not a hard core science perosn and need extra time to understand what I am learning so buffer your schedule with fun classes, humanities etc.
2)try to take classes with people you study well with.
3) if you like the subject you tend to do better in it, do you like the subject, or at least part of it. Find something fun about it.
4)do research, actually applying the science helped me since I need hands on experience to really understand why and how.
5) remember some classes only test rote memorization, so get out those notecards if you have to
6)also I know poeple who took classes part time, some people can't handle a full load, who knows maybe work, family stress etc. Just remember medical schools see your overall GPA. I knew people who applied and got in, even though they took more time to finish. This allowed them to mature and really develop their study skills, and now they are in medical school and wil be doctors.

Good luck!

 

[Cerberus]

MIT orgo myth exploded (can we get this on myth busters?)

 

[Premedtomed]

Woah, wait a minute...what constitutes an A at your school? An A starts at 80% at my school, UBC. Actually, I believe 80-84% is an A-, 85-89 = A, 90-100 = A+.

90-100 is an A

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS - SOUTH PARK

 

[Cerberus]

90-100 is an A

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS - SOUTH PARK

THEY TOOOOOK OURRRR JOHHBBBSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[vixenell]

Anyway, I've found that the best way to get decent grades is to not have a roomate, or having a nice quiet place to study, without a television, or internet to distract you. I've found a nice little cubicle/office thats hidden away in the stacks in the library, which is where I am most productive when it comes to studying.

I definitely put in the two hours for every hour spent in class; not necessarily because it takes that much time to understand it, but its helpful in keeping the material fresh in my head. I always review notes immediately after class, especially in my major classes. It helps me also to type up (for bio) or rewrite my notes within 24 hours of class, since I have a somewhat photographic memory. I also read (or at least attempt to skim) the material that is going to be covered in class, and write notes on it on the left side of my notebook (back of page), while writing lecture notes on the right; this helps with pulling all of the information together when I'm rewriting/studying.

Since I've only got 2 TV shows that I watch regularly, I record those when they air, then watch the tape either after I'm studying that night or that weekend. That way, it becomes more of a reward than an excuse. I also make sure that I keep up other non-academic routines, like running, playing pool, setting up a weekly movie night, or whatever it takes, so that I won't ever feel like I need to play catchup around exam time.

I've got tons more OCD study tips to share if you're interested. I'm a lot like BananaSplit when it comes to the dayplanner; only I write it all on the mirror on the back of my door. I have a tendency to lose planners. I also agree with maoeris about balancing your courseload, but that definitely came back to bite me in the rear, when I had two 20 page papers due during the week before finals (while also having three science/math exams that week as well).

 

[DORoe]

THEY TOOOOOK OURRRR JOHHBBBSSSSSSSSSSSS

That's it everyone back on the pile!

 

[kikkoman]

MIT orgo myth exploded (can we get this on myth busters?)

Here's Orgo II, if you guys want to take a look:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Chemistry/5-13Organic-Chemistry-IISpring2003/Exams/index.htm


I think its odd that people are using these exams to try to lump MIT orgo (and thus the classes of other top schools) as "easy" because the problems at first glance don't look difficult. Do them in the time allotted, and compare how you do against the average if you really want to determine whether they are "easy" or not. Otherwise it's pretty meaningless and self-congratulatory.

Some other schools have very tough orgo programs as well - northwestern comes to mind. Again, if you look at those tests, you won't see a shocking difference - but if you get down and try to do them, lots of things trip you up.

 

[Cerberus]

Here's Orgo II, if you guys want to take a look:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Chemistry/5-13Organic-Chemistry-IISpring2003/Exams/index.htm


I think its odd that people are using these exams to try to lump MIT orgo (and thus the classes of other top schools) as "easy" because the problems at first glance don't look difficult. Do them in the time allotted, and compare how you do against the average if you really want to determine whether they are "easy" or not. Otherwise it's pretty meaningless and self-congratulatory.

Some other schools have very tough orgo programs as well - northwestern comes to mind. Again, if you look at those tests, you won't see a shocking difference - but if you get down and try to do them, lots of things trip you up.

I looked at those exams too and they differ from the exams I had because:

A) they require more memorization
B) they require less thought

The exams at my school were similar in that there were a bunch of mechanisms/products but we had more synthesis problems and a lot of "Why?" problems. I'd say 45% of our exams were "why does X do this, why would Y do this, explain why Z normally does Q but in this situation does W".

 

[Noeljan]

Athough I think that some material is not as relevant in premed courses, I feel that the curve is far too low at my school. I really don't think it is fair that someone can get 200 points less than me and still get an A in Organic. I think there should be some room for error, but people should have to put in more effort than that. I have my bachelors finished in Nursing, and now finishing my bio degree(with minor in chem), and although people seem to knock nursing courses the expectations and standards were far higher than any "pre-med" science. A C was a 70, B 84%, and an A was a 92%. It did not matter what the class average was. You had to really devote yourself to your studies to earn that A.

 

[Pre-Med-Guru]

Those practice tests were not too bad, I have not taken Orgo in over a year and I could do most of them. That means MIT sucks and Michigan rules. BTW MIT has always been one of the more overrated schools when it comes to non engineering/computer education. To get back to original post q, To study and get As, you need to study as long as you get As, no shortcuts. If you use oldtest you are a cheater, don't do that, learn the material and expect the toughest q and you will do well. Good luck.

 

[kikkoman]

Those practice tests were not too bad, I have not taken Orgo in over a year and I could do most of them. That means MIT sucks and Michigan rules. BTW MIT has always been one of the more overrated schools when it comes to non engineering/computer education. To get back to original post q, To study and get As, you need to study as long as you get As, no shortcuts. If you use oldtest you are a cheater, don't do that, learn the material and expect the toughest q and you will do well. Good luck.

I kill you.

 

[Goober]

Nice to see that another thread in the preallo form degenerate into the submoronic level.

 

[liverotcod]

My advice to the OP is simple, 4 steps:
1) Know the material before it's taught in class. I.e. read the chapter carefully.
2) Go to class and pay attention.
3) Study the day's topics before 48 hours pass.
4) For science classes, do more than the recommended/required number of problems/practice. For humanities, do not procrastinate papers/research.

 

[Pre-Dent-David]

I hate organic at my school(Also I just plain dislike my school). The tests are reasonable in material coverage and depth, but the questions are exactly the same as homework and notes. This causes the average to be significantly inflated. Also another thing I hate is that when I am errantly marked wrong I do not recieve points back ever. Other people recieve points, but I dont.WTF Also it is rumored that all of a sudden at the end of the semester, after all labs were finished the professor decided to change the lab grading scale to make the A cutoff 5% higher than currently. This is an extremely shady thing to do in my opinion. If the scale is subject to change you should tell the students at the START of the semester. Not even the TA's were aware of this!

Should have tried harder in hs so I could have gotten into a real school and not had to deal with this bull****.

PS. The professor does not put notes online which is another thing I hate, but I guess I cant expect everyone to be tech savvy enough to do this.

 

[aphistis]

I hate organic at my school(Also I just plain dislike my school). The tests are reasonable in material coverage and depth, but the questions are exactly the same as homework and notes. This causes the average to be significantly inflated. Also another thing I hate is that when I am errantly marked wrong I do not recieve points back ever. Other people recieve points, but I dont.WTF Also it is rumored that all of a sudden at the end of the semester, after all labs were finished the professor decided to change the lab grading scale to make the A cutoff 5% higher than currently. This is an extremely shady thing to do in my opinion. If the scale is subject to change you should tell the students at the START of the semester. Not even the TA's were aware of this!

Should have tried harder in hs so I could have gotten into a real school and not had to deal with this bull****.

PS. The professor does not put notes online which is another thing I hate, but I guess I cant expect everyone to be tech savvy enough to do this.

Is the grading scale listed in the class syllabus? If it is, and he didn't reserve the right to adjust the scale, I'd lean on him. Go up the food chain if you need to; the whole point of distributing a syllabus is to let the students know what to expect. It's worthless if you don't adhere to it.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

I hate organic at my school(Also I just plain dislike my school). The tests are reasonable in material coverage and depth, but the questions are exactly the same as homework and notes. This causes the average to be significantly inflated. Also another thing I hate is that when I am errantly marked wrong I do not recieve points back ever. Other people recieve points, but I dont.WTF Also it is rumored that all of a sudden at the end of the semester, after all labs were finished the professor decided to change the lab grading scale to make the A cutoff 5% higher than currently. This is an extremely shady thing to do in my opinion. If the scale is subject to change you should tell the students at the START of the semester. Not even the TA's were aware of this!

Should have tried harder in hs so I could have gotten into a real school and not had to deal with this bull****.

PS. The professor does not put notes online which is another thing I hate, but I guess I cant expect everyone to be tech savvy enough to do this.

Dude, if that happened to me, I'd take it up with the Dean of Academic Affairs (if it affected my grade). They will take care of such things. The teacher cannot all of a sudden change things at the end and not tell you... the syllabus is a LEGAL CONTRACT. It really is. I highly recommend you take it up with them if it affected your grade. I've fought and won 2/2 when they pulled quick ones in other classes. They can't do that just because they're Organic Chemistry teachers.

As for that MIT exam, that beast looked very hard in my opinion and I've been top percentile in both Orgo's...

 

[fun8stuff]

Yes. The MIT exams are a nice reassurance that my little state schools isn't so bad after all... at least no when it comes to organic.