Why did my app cycle so poorly?

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Congrats you're going to medical school. To address the lack of success at those top schools, I'd have to imagine the interview is where you can find what went wrong.
 
That's a pretty nice turn out in terms of IIs!

I understand, however, where you are coming from in terms of wondering what happened about post interview acceptances. Honestly, I feel like it is very hard to get into these top schools unless you make some kind of special (and often times random) connection with your interviewer. Something that will make them go all the way for you.

For example, if you and your interviewer happen to be huge fans of the same sports team and your conversation ends up being a fun talk about the matter. This type of conversation would leave a positive impression that might get them to fight for you. At this stage in the game, the rest of the interviewees are extraordinary like you, and it is hard to filter the candidates. Thus, making these small sparks in the conversation make or break you.

I found these random connections in all of my top 10 acceptances, but was wait listed at the one where we never found this small random common topic. It could be a coincidence, but just my two cents.
 
The bold is probably the most lethal, but your essays probably were also a factor. Red flag LORs are rare, but conceivable.

laffytaffy7 said:
My guesses are:
1) Downward trend GPA, had a 3.85 going into senior year, but got 1 C and 3 B's senior year which brought it down.
2) PS/Essays just weren't put together well enough
3) Bad LOR
4) Too little clinical volunteering/shadowing

Note: I'm not bitter at my post-ii decisions. Had slipups at my top10 interviews. I just thought I'd get more II's, especially from the top 50 schools I applied to.

Any thoughts on what went wrong? Is the downward trend GPA that alarming or could it be something else?
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I think it is possible it was an interview problem, given that you had a prolific interview profile. You also have two post-interview decisions still pending, so I would wait and see what they say before anything else. While you have a strong applicant profile, it doesn't guarantee anything, and there are definitely people in your position going to schools that they didn't think they would be attending when starting out.

I don't think the GPA "decline" was really any sort of issue. A 3.79 is still a respectable GPA and a 0.06 drop is minuscule, especially if the lower grades were in harder upper level classes. With a 39+ MCAT and a still solid GPA, no one will be doubting your academic ability.
 
Eh, I don't think it's a poor cycle. Most of the top 10 schools have low post-interview rates (usually 20-25%) and they are also picky (they like to assemble interesting/unique pieces so you may have made it to the accept pile but not the final accept pile).
 
Receiving 6 interview invitations out of 15 applications is actually quite a strong showing, so odds are good it's not something pre-interview.

However, you did apply very top-heavy, so in the thin air, there's just no room for any errors... I suspect it was an 'adequate but not outstanding' interview performance like @Smoove suggests that dropped you into the 'let's not make any hasty decisions either way' pile.

But you have an acceptance at your state school, so you're going to be a doctor! And it's not over yet...
 
laffytaffy7 said:
First time poster here but longtime lurker. My application cycle has goon extremely poorly and I was wondering if any of you could point out what could be wrong in my app cycle.

Applied to 15 schools. Mostly Top 20 schools, a few top 50 schools, and 1 state school (top 70).
Received 3 II at top 10 schools, 2 top 50 school II, and 1 II at my state school.
Accepted to state school.
WL at 1 top 10 and 1 top 50 school
Rejected at 1 top 10 school
Still waiting on the other top 10 and top 50 schools.
Rejected pre-ii everywhere else.

3.79 sgpa and cgpa, 39+ mcat, HYPSM grad, 3 publications ( 1 first author), strong/interesting ECs + leadership experience, 120 hr clinical volunteering, 50 hr shadow, 1000+ hrs in interesting nonclinical volunteering

My guesses are:
1) Downward trend GPA, had a 3.85 going into senior year, but got 1 C and 3 B's senior year which brought it down.
2) PS/Essays just weren't put together well enough
3) Bad LOR
4) Too little clinical volunteering/shadowing

Note: I'm not bitter at my post-ii decisions. Had slipups at my top10 interviews. I just thought I'd get more II's, especially from the top 50 schools I applied to.

Any thoughts on what went wrong? Is the downward trend GPA that alarming or could it be something else?
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Best guess, you are not nearly as interesting as you think that you are.
 
You have a very strong application. Your LORs might be an issue, but since you received multiple interviews, I don't think that's the main problem. As others have pointed out, it's probably a matter of polishing up your interview skills. You can have a stellar application, but it's still important to do well in interviews. It's a skill you have to get the hang of regardless of where you stand. That said, congrats on your acceptance to med school!
 
laffytaffy7 said:
First time poster here but longtime lurker. My application cycle has goon extremely poorly and I was wondering if any of you could point out what could be wrong in my app cycle.

Applied to 15 schools. Mostly Top 20 schools, a few top 50 schools, and 1 state school (top 70).
Received 3 II at top 10 schools, 2 top 50 school II, and 1 II at my state school.
Accepted to state school.
WL at 1 top 10 and 1 top 50 school
Rejected at 1 top 10 school
Still waiting on the other top 10 and top 50 schools.
Rejected pre-ii everywhere else.

3.79 sgpa and cgpa, 39+ mcat, HYPSM grad, 3 publications ( 1 first author), strong/interesting ECs + leadership experience, 120 hr clinical volunteering, 50 hr shadow, 1000+ hrs in interesting nonclinical volunteering

My guesses are:
1) Downward trend GPA, had a 3.85 going into senior year, but got 1 C and 3 B's senior year which brought it down.
2) PS/Essays just weren't put together well enough
3) Bad LOR
4) Too little clinical volunteering/shadowing

Note: I'm not bitter at my post-ii decisions. Had slipups at my top10 interviews. I just thought I'd get more II's, especially from the top 50 schools I applied to.

Any thoughts on what went wrong? Is the downward trend GPA that alarming or could it be something else?
Click to expand...
I think you put your finger on it, PS/Essays weren't put together well, little clinical exposure.
If you didn't interview well, that may have sealed the outcome, regardless of your stellar stats.

When I review the MDApps of stellar applications with 10+ interviews to top schools, they still have schools that didn't interview them (for whatever reason), and even then they don't get 100% acceptances at all their interviewed schools. It is a very competitive environment, especially at top schools. I know you are disappointed in your outcome, but the clock is reset for medical school, learn from the mistakes, and start fresh. Residency applications may be only 3.5 short years away (when we get to do this all application process all over again for the MATCH!!)
 
I got 6 (I withdrew the 7th after I got my first acceptance) IIs (1 at a Top 10), 3 WLs, 1 rejection–from said Top 10, 1 acceptance, and 1 no-news yet. I'm not complaining.

It happens. Be happy you're going somewhere in the US, many–quite possibly even some of the people that were at your interview days–don't have that chance.
 
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bananafish94 said:
What exactly do you want people to do? Feel sorry that you didn't get any acceptances to top 10 schools? You got six interviews and an acceptance. Enjoy your success.
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This. What do you want people to say? I mean your guess is as good as ours. You were accepted to medical school. You had plenty of interview invites. Your stats are definitely good, if not great, but not unheard of. Your cycle went as expected. Enjoy the success and lay off the humblebrag threads.
 
laffytaffy7 said:
First time poster here but longtime lurker. My application cycle has goon extremely poorly and I was wondering if any of you could point out what could be wrong in my app cycle.

Applied to 15 schools. Mostly Top 20 schools, a few top 50 schools, and 1 state school (top 70).
Received 3 II at top 10 schools, 2 top 50 school II, and 1 II at my state school.
Accepted to state school.
WL at 1 top 10 and 1 top 50 school
Rejected at 1 top 10 school
Still waiting on the other top 10 and top 50 schools.
Rejected pre-ii everywhere else.

3.79 sgpa and cgpa, 39+ mcat, HYPSM grad, 3 publications ( 1 first author), strong/interesting ECs + leadership experience, 120 hr clinical volunteering, 50 hr shadow, 1000+ hrs in interesting nonclinical volunteering

My guesses are:
1) Downward trend GPA, had a 3.85 going into senior year, but got 1 C and 3 B's senior year which brought it down.
2) PS/Essays just weren't put together well enough
3) Bad LOR
4) Too little clinical volunteering/shadowing

Note: I'm not bitter at my post-ii decisions. Had slipups at my top10 interviews. I just thought I'd get more II's, especially from the top 50 schools I applied to.

Any thoughts on what went wrong? Is the downward trend GPA that alarming or could it be something else?
Click to expand...

Honestly, my guess is that you may not be the best interviewer. Your stats are great and you have good ECs.

You did get a ton of interviews, roughly 40% which is incredible, which leads me to believe that you may have struggled in the interviews.

What's your state school?
 
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I think some of you are being a little too harsh on the OP. Given the app that is listed, OP was likely expecting more than 1 acceptance out of 15 applications. Sure, 1 state school acceptance is more than what many people have, but there is nothing wrong with expecting more with the application OP has listed. Telling the OP that they are "ungrateful" is along the lines of telling someone that went through medical school/residency/neurosurgery specialization and ended up receiving an attending position that paid only 100k/year that they should be grateful and not ask why they didn't make more. Sure, 100k is more than what a lot of people make - but it is on the lower end of what other neurosurgeons with similar training make and one would rightly wonder why.
 
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MemeFactory said:
I think some of you are being a little too harsh on the OP. Given the app that is listed, OP was likely expecting more than 1 acceptance out of 15 applications. Sure, 1 state school acceptance is more than what many people have, but there is nothing wrong with expecting more with the application OP has listed. Telling the OP that they are "ungrateful" is along the lines of telling someone that went through medical school/residency/neurosurgery specialization and ended up receiving an attending position that paid only 100k/year that they should be grateful and not ask why they didn't make more. Sure, 100k is more than what a lot of people make - but it is on the lower end of what other neurosurgeons with similar training make and one would rightly wonder why.
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Not quite the same since after residency+fellowship, a neurosurgeon can pretty much go to any location in the country and get a job (some paying a lot more than avg and some that aren't). Getting into med school is one of the major bottlenecks of this training path - so yes getting one acceptance warrants that the OP should be grateful. Many will not get an opportunity to go down this hellish path and become physicians.
 
The absurd sense of entitlement that you exude in your post simply because you graduated with a 3.79 GPA from "HYPSM" probably shone through in some of your interviews.

I think you grossly underestimate how difficult it is to get accepted to any "Top 70" allopathic U.S. medical school.
 
I know (not personally) an individual who has three degrees in Biochemistry, Neuroscience, and Chemical Engineering (U.S. News rank 4 since you seem pre-occupied with prestige) with a 3.91 GPA and "equivalent" MCAT of 37. His clinical experience outweighs yours by a factor of 5-10. He was a three time re-applicant to medical school due to a downward trend in GPA just like you, and he posted that he literally cried when he received an acceptance to one of his state medical schools (U.S News rank ~50) a month and a half ago. He recently also received an acceptance to Indiana (U.S. News rank 47).

This is a 3 time re-applicant with a stronger academic record (with a more diverse and expansive suite of degrees) who cried about a top 50 acceptance. Yet here you are disappointed about a "poor" cycle when you were accepted the first time around. Absurd.
 
Lol, top 70...

OP, you probably came off as too pretentious at your higher tier interviews. You came off as a bit of a prestige chaser here, that probably rubs off a bit in person too. Maybe you came off as arrogant care of the way you carried yourself, who knows. But work on it, and use this as a life lesson so that when you're applying to residency you don't make the same mistake again.
 
Y'all are being really annoying and obnoxious to OP. He asked a simple question. Maybe he was expecting more, but we don't need 5 posts in a row whining about the post, using words like "d-bag" and "*****." Seriously?

If I was met with this much hostility on a supposed help site, I'd get off immediately.

Please, write something constructive or don't write anything at all.
 
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^^ Totally agree with the above poster. Those bashing on the OP are not contributing anything useful by doing so. It's not mutually exclusive to have someone 1) extremely grateful that he/she has an acceptance and 2) curious about why he/she didn't get more acceptances a cycle.

The fact that the OP had 6 interview invites and only 1 acceptance (which is pretty low yield) imo gives him enough reason to ask where things went wrong. I would also guess it has something to do with interviewing skills tbh.

Also, nothing wrong with saying he graduated from HYPSM. Just stating the facts and giving us more context.
 
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DingoPingo said:
Y'all are being really annoying and obnoxious to OP. He asked a simple question. Maybe he was expecting more, but we don't need 5 posts in a row whining about the post, using words like "d-bag" and "*****." Seriously?

If I was met with this much hostility on a supposed help site, I'd get off immediately.

Please, write something constructive or don't write anything at all.
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The quote below sounds like good and accurate advice
Mad Jack said:
Lol, top 70...

OP, you probably came off as too pretentious at your higher tier interviews. You came off as a bit of a prestige chaser here, that probably rubs off a bit in person too. Maybe you came off as arrogant care of the way you carried yourself, who knows. But work on it, and use this as a life lesson so that when you're applying to residency you don't make the same mistake again.
Click to expand...
 
I was previously under the assumption that SDN was full of gunners and top-notch students. After reading the comments on this thread, it's quite clear that SDN is populated with those who have the mentality of being thankful for participation trophies. They tell you to be grateful you got into your safety school when your application is above average for the top 10 schools. They'll probably tell you to be grateful you matched into your bottom-ranked residency program when you have a 270+ Step I and junior AOA from HMS. They'll also probably tell you that mediocrity is fine, and that nobody should have the audacity to demand more for themselves.

"Got into your state school? Withdraw from all your other schools and crawl on over to their admissions office and thank them for accepting you!"
"Someone's talking about how they got into a top 10 school? How dare they bully me, I only go to a top 88 school and now I feel inferior because they're talking about an accomplishment of theirs."

You all say "prestige *****", "prestige chaser", and yet you still apply to the same top 10 schools and know the list by heart.
 
Chelsea FC said:
The quote below sounds like good and accurate advice
Click to expand...

That is good advice in certain situations and may certainly apply to OP. However, I believe here it was condescending and an over-generalization of OP's behavior from a single post on an internet forum. OP seems very reflective of his/her own weaknesses and has not retaliated against any posts. Other than using the words "extremely poorly" instead of "somewhat disappointing," I do not see any evidence of pretentiousness or sense of entitlement.

Anyways, this thread is getting into a conflict that is not about OP's original question, which has already been answered by many posters already. It seems the consensus has something to do with those slipups at the interviews.
 
Cara Delevingne said:
I was previously under the assumption that SDN was full of gunners and top-notch students. After reading the comments on this thread, it's quite clear that SDN is populated with those who have the mentality of being thankful for participation trophies. They tell you to be grateful you got into your safety school when your application is above average for the top 10 schools. They'll probably tell you to be grateful you matched into your bottom-ranked residency program when you have a 270+ Step I and junior AOA from HMS. They'll also probably tell you that mediocrity is fine, and that nobody should have the audacity to demand more for themselves.

"Got into your state school? Withdraw from all your other schools and crawl on over to their admissions office and thank them for accepting you!"
"Someone's talking about how they got into a top 10 school? How dare they bully me, I only go to a top 88 school and now I feel inferior because they're talking about an accomplishment of theirs."

You all say "prestige *****", "prestige chaser", and yet you still apply to the same top 10 schools and know the list by heart.
Click to expand...
Well his overall application was clearly not above average for top 10 schools regarding that medical school application process factors in things like PS and LOR which OP said was not good and also his interviewing ability. His numbers where good enough but if it was all down to that medical school applications would be alot more predictable
 
Okay, I'll give my actual opinion on the matter. OP, I don't think anything went wrong with your application cycle. Your stats are phenomenal and if schools were worried about the C you got senior year, your letters of recommendation, or your essays, they wouldn't have invited you to interview. Simply getting an interview to a top 10 school is a tremendous achievement and nothing to shake a stick at. The fact that you haven't gotten into one of them does not mean that you are a bad interviewer--those schools have pretty bad post-interview acceptance rates from my cursory look at the MSAR. I think the main reason you didn't get more than one acceptance is that you applied mostly to the most selective schools in the country, where everyone has stats like that. I'm sorry if my previous post sounded at all vitriolic, because I did not mean it to sound that way. It's just that as someone with no acceptances I would not characterize your cycle as going "so poorly." Congratulations on all of your success, and good luck in medical school, wherever you end up going.
 
Ive resisted commenting but i feel i should..

You shouldnt define this as a poor app cycle. Disappointing? Sure. You're disappointed it didnt work out like you thought it would. Just keep in mind, it could be nothing about your app that "failed" you. Honestly, the sheer competition of the schools you applied to could just be it. Dont look at it as a failure, you got into med school, you ARE going to be a doctor. Just keep up the great work with your grades and kill step...and you will be able to overcome this disappointment.

tl;dr your cycle wasnt poor, things will work out for you wherever you go.
 
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vneuro said:
I know (not personally) an individual who has three degrees in Biochemistry, Neuroscience, and Chemical Engineering (U.S. News rank 4 since you seem pre-occupied with prestige) with a 3.91 GPA and "equivalent" MCAT of 37. His clinical experience outweighs yours by a factor of 5-10. He was a three time re-applicant to medical school due to a downward trend in GPA just like you, and he posted that he literally cried when he received an acceptance to one of his state medical schools (U.S News rank ~50) a month and a half ago. He recently also received an acceptance to Indiana (U.S. News rank 47).

This is a 3 time re-applicant with a stronger academic record (with a more diverse and expansive suite of degrees) who cried about a top 50 acceptance. Yet here you are disappointed about a "poor" cycle when you were accepted the first time around. Absurd.
Click to expand...

Love this post. 👍



Several sociologists and psychologists have called millenials the "generation of entitlement", a title which has rarely been more clear than this post. There are literally tens of thousands of applicants who get in NOWHERE each year and hundreds of thousands who dream of getting into medical school but changed paths because they were bad at Ochem or went to no-name universities where there were zero research options for undergrads or any one of a dozen other reasons.

I am an applicant looking at a potential FOURTH cycle. I would do ANYTHING to be accepted to the 135th ranked school.
 
3.8 HYPSM, 100th percentile MCAT, multiple pubs and 1000+ service hours.

3/~10 top schools interviewed?

That actually seems low to my (of course pretty amateur) WAMC senses. My money is on an off-putting tone or other flaws in essays/LOR, maybe also during interviewing going one for six.
 
Cara Delevingne said:
I was previously under the assumption that SDN was full of gunners and top-notch students. After reading the comments on this thread, it's quite clear that SDN is populated with those who have the mentality of being thankful for participation trophies. They tell you to be grateful you got into your safety school when your application is above average for the top 10 schools. They'll probably tell you to be grateful you matched into your bottom-ranked residency program when you have a 270+ Step I and junior AOA from HMS. They'll also probably tell you that mediocrity is fine, and that nobody should have the audacity to demand more for themselves.

"Got into your state school? Withdraw from all your other schools and crawl on over to their admissions office and thank them for accepting you!"
"Someone's talking about how they got into a top 10 school? How dare they bully me, I only go to a top 88 school and now I feel inferior because they're talking about an accomplishment of theirs."

You all say "prestige *****", "prestige chaser", and yet you still apply to the same top 10 schools and know the list by heart.
Click to expand...

I didn't know getting accepted into one med school is anywhere equal to "mediocrity" ...

I guess the alternative is to not be thankful for getting any IIs or acceptances ...

How does wanting to do as well as possible mean that getting something you perceive is lesser a bad thing?

I guess if your future patient didn't achieve their maximal recovery or didn't follow your regiment to the T, then they are living in mediocrity too...

Sigh...
 
Spinach Dip said:
Love this post. 👍



Several sociologists and psychologists have called millenials the "generation of entitlement", a title which has rarely been more clear than this post. There are literally tens of thousands of applicants who get in NOWHERE each year and hundreds of thousands who dream of getting into medical school but changed paths because they were bad at Ochem or went to no-name universities where there were zero research options for undergrads or any one of a dozen other reasons.

I am an applicant looking at a potential FOURTH cycle. I would do ANYTHING to be accepted to the 135th ranked school.
Click to expand...

C'mon now. Is it the OP's fault that many pre-meds crash and burn, or don't make it, or dreamed for so long of going to medical school and ended up not fulfilling that dream? Is it OP's fault that people have an unsuccessful cycle or two or three?

I definitely agree that calling an app cycle "extremely poorly" when one has received an acceptance doesn't make sense, but it's natural to feel disappointed to come up empty at top schools with near perfect stats and solid ECs. It's a matter of perspective. I'm a 3.7/33 applicant so I was very grateful just to get an acceptance this cycle. But if I were a 3.97/39 student like the OP, I admit I'd probably feel at least somewhat similar to what the OP is feeling (although I'm sure upon matriculation I would get over it).
 
Lots of hate going on in this topic, it should probably be closed.

I'm also hoping for my first acceptance but there's no need for 5+ posts insulting OP. However, there were some legitimate concerns about attitude, so I feel OP at least may have gotten something out of this.
 
Cara Delevingne said:
I was previously under the assumption that SDN was full of gunners and top-notch students. After reading the comments on this thread, it's quite clear that SDN is populated with those who have the mentality of being thankful for participation trophies. They tell you to be grateful you got into your safety school when your application is above average for the top 10 schools. They'll probably tell you to be grateful you matched into your bottom-ranked residency program when you have a 270+ Step I and junior AOA from HMS. They'll also probably tell you that mediocrity is fine, and that nobody should have the audacity to demand more for themselves.

"Got into your state school? Withdraw from all your other schools and crawl on over to their admissions office and thank them for accepting you!"
"Someone's talking about how they got into a top 10 school? How dare they bully me, I only go to a top 88 school and now I feel inferior because they're talking about an accomplishment of theirs."

You all say "prestige *****", "prestige chaser", and yet you still apply to the same top 10 schools and know the list by heart.
Click to expand...
If you didn't get in, you weren't good enough, period. There's more to a top-notch applicant than numbers.
 
eteshoe said:
Not quite the same since after residency+fellowship, a neurosurgeon can pretty much go to any location in the country and get a job (some paying a lot more than avg and some that aren't). Getting into med school is one of the major bottlenecks of this training path - so yes getting one acceptance warrants that the OP should be grateful. Many will not get an opportunity to go down this hellish path and become physicians.
Click to expand...

The point I was trying to make is that it's okay to expect different things based on what you have. It's okay for someone with 39+ MCAT/3.8 GPA to expect more in terms of medical school admissions success than someone with a 30 MCAT/3.5 GPA given that all else is equal. Sure OP should be grateful of his one acceptance, but he/she is also completely justified in asking why they did not receive more. Instead of helpful replies about what could have been the problem, OP got a bunch of bitter posts essentially telling him/her to shut-up and be grateful.
 
Cara Delevingne said:
I was previously under the assumption that SDN was full of gunners and top-notch students. After reading the comments on this thread, it's quite clear that SDN is populated with those who have the mentality of being thankful for participation trophies. They tell you to be grateful you got into your safety school when your application is above average for the top 10 schools. They'll probably tell you to be grateful you matched into your bottom-ranked residency program when you have a 270+ Step I and junior AOA from HMS. They'll also probably tell you that mediocrity is fine, and that nobody should have the audacity to demand more for themselves.

"Got into your state school? Withdraw from all your other schools and crawl on over to their admissions office and thank them for accepting you!"
"Someone's talking about how they got into a top 10 school? How dare they bully me, I only go to a top 88 school and now I feel inferior because they're talking about an accomplishment of theirs."

You all say "prestige *****", "prestige chaser", and yet you still apply to the same top 10 schools and know the list by heart.
Click to expand...

HMS doesn't even have AOA... Everyone is naturally attracted by prestige. If you exude pretentiousness and entitlement you'll make out to be a bad interviewee. If you had IIs to "top 10" schools you had a chance to get in but your personality and ECs weren't enough to seal the deal.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
An acceptance doesn't seem like a poor cycle to me. Congrats on becoming a doctor, now forget about everything else and get ready for medical school


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
I'm not saying I wouldn't be disappointed in similar circumstances. I understandably would be. However, I was just saying that I would never call it a poor cycle. A poor cycle means you're a reapplicant in a few months.
 
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