Why did you pick a top/ivy school?

[Euxox]

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Anyways, I just feel down about my choice in colleges. Don't think he has much more to offer.

I see two issues here:

1. You need to learn to like your college. U Chicago is not only one of the best universities in the country, but also one of the best in the world. There are third-world nations where tens of thousands of students spend years in cram school studying for entrance exams so that they can get one of the few hundred seats at their top national university that doesn't even have electricity in all of the lecture halls or running water in the dorms. Yes, U Chicago is difficult, but you should look at the difficult curriculum as a challenge that needs to be overcome and understand that this challenge is bringing out the best in you by pushing you to work harder. You should not view the rigorous curriculum as a curse that has already sealed off the path to medical school.
   
2. I understand that struggling with grades can hurt your confidence, and you will need to find a way to build it back up, but acting condescending towards other posters on this forum is not the way to do it. Neither is self-pity. The clock is ticking: you only have a few years to bring your grades up, and every moment you spend whining about it/putting other people down is a moment that is wasted.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

I'm not saying that isn't true. It is, you have to work to get As. But unless they give out no As, there's no way they make the material as hard. Professors have to make exams ridiculous here, or else there would be all 100's.

I'd be interested to know what the average MCAT score for accepted students from your institution (University of Chicago as I recall) is. I have seen 35 as the average score for accepted students from Harvard College and MIT and 33 from Princeton, Penn, etc. This is, of course, hearsay and by no means a rigorous proof of what I attempt to show (i.e., that the overall quality of students from the top 10-20 schools is very strong, but overstated by students such as yourself.) Also, note the underlined 'accepted' here, it is not improbable that the average score for applicants from these institutions is the same or lower.

If you could find this information for me, I'd be very grateful.

Edit: typos

 

[Ace-Co-A]

You should know me better than that Ace, I'm just having some fun.

Indeed, my friend, I beg your pardon.

 

[Mad Jack]

Someone got butthurt. I'm only addressing UChicago-like hardness. 10 percent get As?..... So what if the whole class is not as smart?

You make me miss the sophistication and eloquence of streampaw. She was all the troll you'll never be. Anyways, sorry you're so buttfrustrated about your school.

 

[Sephiroth]

I went to one of the more well-known state universities, and I would definitely contend that competition is just much easier. I saw a post early in the thread about non-ivy honors program with 2200 average SAT; I don't know what that school is, but I can tell you that at my school the honors program wasn't even close and you'd be hard-pressed to find many kids with SATs over 2200. Of course you can't perfectly correlate standardized test scores with grades, particularly because they don't measure how well you study, but it's hardly meaningless, and highschool GPAs factor into admissions too. So yes, I'd say that in the large majority of cases, a median student at H/Y/P/C/C would, keeping the class load and amount of effort constant, outperform 90% of students at a typical state university. While LizzyM has stated that they do consider institution, it's hard to say just how much they do and the extent to which it offsets a lower GPA. Just be glad you're applying to med school which gives more holistic consideration, and not applying to law school where raw GPA is extremely important.

I have a proposed solution for the issue of grades being non-comparable across universities, though I'm sure a lot of people will hate it. Anyone remember those AP exams from high school? How supposedly a score of 5 meant you performed about as well as a typical college student that got an A in the class? Well I say let's make exams like that for all the basic intro/gen ed courses that are relatively constant across universities, which will then be given as a final exam, and graded with respect to all exam takers across the country. They'd probably need higher granulation than the 5 point scale though, but this would actually compare you to everyone else, not just your class, which may be more or less competitive than others. Go on and rip it apart.

 

[Aerus]

I have a proposed solution for the issue of grades being non-comparable across universities, though I'm sure a lot of people will hate it. Anyone remember those AP exams from high school? How supposedly a score of 5 meant you performed about as well as a typical college student that got an A in the class? Well I say let's make exams like that for all the basic intro/gen ed courses that are relatively constant across universities, which will then be given as a final exam, and graded with respect to all exam takers across the country. They'd probably need higher granulation than the 5 point scale though, but this would actually compare you to everyone else, not just your class, which may be more or less competitive than others. Go on and rip it apart.

In my high school, if you can pull off a B- in a class, you were pretty much guaranteed to get a 5 on the AP exam. If you get a 3 or a 4, it was most likely due to a bad test day. It was almost unheard of (assuming you pass the class) to get below that.

 

[asw98]

For me, my school was the cheapest of all of the schools I got into. I received a full-tuition merit scholarship at another school, but that still was several thousands dollars more expensive than my current school. To be honest, I never really considered the difficulty of the school as I was pretty confident in my abilities. Also, I didn't start out as pre-med, so I wasn't concerned about my grades. Actually, I originally thought I wasn't smart enough to be a doctor, which is why I was I started off as a chemistry major (don't know why I thought getting a Ph.D. in Chemistry was easier than becoming a doctor…)

 

[Sephiroth]

In my high school, if you can pull off a B- in a class, you were pretty much guaranteed to get a 5 on the AP exam. If you get a 3 or a 4, it was most likely due to a bad test day. It was almost unheard of (assuming you pass the class) to get below that.

Really? Wow, that's a pretty competitive highschool, at least compared to mine. I could understand it for some of them - I think for calc AB and stats I only needed about half the allotted time and got in plenty of nap time during the test - but for a lot of them I'd be surprised if an overwhelming majority of the class got 5's unless this was some very selective private school. And AP Spanish wrecked me (good thing there's an SAT subject test for that too). But yeah, that's why I said that would need more granulation than the 5 point scale.

 

[wiloghby]

I'd be interested to know what the average MCAT score for accepted students from your institution (University of Chicago as I recall) is. I have seen 35 as the average score for accepted students from Harvard College and MIT and 33 from Princeton, Penn, etc. This is, of course, hearsay and by no means a rigorous proof of what I attempt to show (i.e., that the overall quality of students from the top 10-20 schools is very strong, but overstated by students such as yourself.) Also, note the underlined 'accepted' here, it is not improbable that the average score for applicants from these institutions is the same or lower.

If you could find this information for me, I'd be very grateful.

Edit: typos

MIT is fairly open about data. It's actually rather mind-blowing when you read it...

http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/premeddata.pdf

For MIT students, the average accepted MCAT is a 36 and the average accepted GPA is a 3.8/4.0

I'm not going to interpret that data, but there it is...wield it as you will.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

MIT is fairly open about data. It's actually rather mind-blowing when you read it...

http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/premeddata.pdf

For MIT students, the average accepted MCAT is a 36 and the average accepted GPA is a 3.8/4.0

I'm not going to interpret that data, but there it is...wield it as you will.

Thanks for checking on that, man. I'm shocked that the GPA is that high.

 

[Lucca]

Thanks for checking on that, man. I'm shocked that the GPA is that high.

As am I! MIT is *more* than an engineering school nowadays though so lets not discount the diverse body of super smart, talented young people there and not just the super smart, talented engineers.

 

[Aerus]

Really? Wow, that's a pretty competitive highschool, at least compared to mine. I could understand it for some of them - I think for calc AB and stats I only needed about half the allotted time and got in plenty of nap time during the test - but for a lot of them I'd be surprised if an overwhelming majority of the class got 5's unless this was some very selective private school. And AP Spanish wrecked me (good thing there's an SAT subject test for that too). But yeah, that's why I said that would need more granulation than the 5 point scale.

It was actually a public school. :O

 

[PurpleLove]

I'd be interested to know what the average MCAT score for accepted students from your institution (University of Chicago as I recall) is. I have seen 35 as the average score for accepted students from Harvard College and MIT and 33 from Princeton, Penn, etc. This is, of course, hearsay and by no means a rigorous proof of what I attempt to show (i.e., that the overall quality of students from the top 10-20 schools is very strong, but overstated by students such as yourself.) Also, note the underlined 'accepted' here, it is not improbable that the average score for applicants from these institutions is the same or lower.

If you could find this information for me, I'd be very grateful.

Edit: typos

I think I need to email a premed adviser, can't find it.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

I think I need to email a premed adviser, can't find it.

Eh... don't let it distract you. It's not a big deal.

 

[Medstart108]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/3/grade-inflation-mode-a/

http://www.examiner.com/article/gra...ssue-at-harvard-university-and-the-ivy-league

http://tusb.stanford.edu/2010/02/grade_inflation_exists_it_suck.html

It's easier to get As at an Ivy than my local state U, where teachers are apathetic, lectures contain around 200 students, and courses are curved to have 10% Fs, 25% Ds, 30% Cs, 25% Bs, and 10% As. At Harvard, pay your fees and you'll get your Bs, work a bit and you'll score As- the hardest part is getting in. At a lot of state universities, you have to excel to get an A, because the teachers only hand them out to students that earn them.

If you went to MIT or one of the other schools that is known for having a difficult grading scale, that's a different story. They're great schools if you want to be a scientist or engineer, but will make medical school admission a bit more challenging. Since many students don't realize they are going to become physicians until they are a year or more into undergrad, this ends up really shooting some of these kids in the foot.

Anyway, enjoy your meal troll.

The top 10% at your local state school probably would be 50th percentile at Harvard to be honest.

 

[Mad Jack]

The top 10% at your local state school probably would be 50th percentile at Harvard to be honest.

It's really an apples to oranges thing IMO. Different students from different backgrounds learning different material from teachers with different motivations utilizing different resources. I've already admitted I was just having some fun with the topic- I hate people that complain, be it about "my state makes it sooooo hard to get into med school," "being Asian/white makes it sooooo hard to get into med school," or "my undergrad institution makes it soooo hard to get into med school." Grade inflation is a very real issue at most schools that exists to differing degrees from department to department. That's what the MCAT is for- it's the ultimate equalizer, showing just how much you actually retained and how well you can apply that hard-earned knowledge.

 

[sourdoughllama]

It's really an apples to oranges thing IMO. Different students from different backgrounds learning different material from teachers with different motivations utilizing different resources. I've already admitted I was just having some fun with the topic- I hate people that complain, be it about "my state makes it sooooo hard to get into med school," "being Asian/white makes it sooooo hard to get into med school," or "my undergrad institution makes it soooo hard to get into med school." Grade inflation is a very real issue at most schools that exists to differing degrees from department to department. That's what the MCAT is for- it's the ultimate equalizer, showing just how much you actually retained and how well you can apply that hard-earned knowledge.

Yeah except the same MCAT for different demographics or states means different acceptance rates. There is no great equalizer because there are biased elements throughout the whole system which the MCAT tries to account for but doesn't really accomplish it well.

 

[PurpleLove]

Yeah except the same MCAT for different demographics or states means different acceptance rates. There is no great equalizer because there are biased elements throughout the whole system which the MCAT tries to account for but doesn't really accomplish it well.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yeah except the same MCAT for different demographics or states means different acceptance rates. There is no great equalizer because there are biased elements throughout the whole system which the MCAT tries to account for but doesn't really accomplish it well.

Academically it is the best equalizer. You can compare students from the same school that both got As, people who are of the same SES to one another, those who went to different schools but had the same grades, etc. No tool is perfect, but much like with LizzyM scores in regard to admission, it is the best tool we've got.

 

[MDforMee]

The top 10% at your local state school probably would be 50th percentile at Harvard to be honest.

IMO more like top 3-5% or even less. I wouldn't hate on a Harvard kid for having a 3.8, though. They're probably pretty bright and hard working.

There are so many state school kids with 3.8s... when they review your app, you'll be compared against something like 20 state school 3.6+'s and 1 Ivy 3.6. Where do you think the problem is?

 

[metview]

I'd be interested to know what the average MCAT score for accepted students from your institution (University of Chicago as I recall) is. I have seen 35 as the average score for accepted students from Harvard College and MIT and 33 from Princeton, Penn, etc. This is, of course, hearsay and by no means a rigorous proof of what I attempt to show (i.e., that the overall quality of students from the top 10-20 schools is very strong, but overstated by students such as yourself.) Also, note the underlined 'accepted' here, it is not improbable that the average score for applicants from these institutions is the same or lower.

If you could find this information for me, I'd be very grateful.

Edit: typos

I go to an Ivy (inside top 10) and the average MCAT for applicants is between 34-35 and the accepted average is 35.

 

[Lucca]

IMO more like top 3-5% or even less. I wouldn't hate on a Harvard kid for having a 3.8, though. They're probably pretty bright and hard working.

There are so many state school kids with 3.8s... when they review your app, you'll be compared against something like 20 state school 3.6+'s and 1 Ivy 3.6. Where do you think the problem is?

Im at a state school and top 4% here (in my college of sciences) is 3.96. That's functionally perfect and there are NOT that many of those students. Top 20% is 3.7.

 

[PurpleLove]

IMO more like top 3-5% or even less. I wouldn't hate on a Harvard kid for having a 3.8, though. They're probably pretty bright and hard working.

There are so many state school kids with 3.8s... when they review your app, you'll be compared against something like 20 state school 3.6+'s and 1 Ivy 3.6. Where do you think the problem is?

 

[PurpleLove]

Im at a state school and top 4% here (in my college of sciences) is 3.96. That's functionally perfect and there are NOT that many of those students. Top 20% is 3.7.

The whole percentages is quite stupid.
Look up Northeastern Illinois. Even if the top 2% only got As there (hahaha), those top 2% wouldn't be as smart as most Harvard students.

 

[Oso]

why are we still talking about this?

The whole percentages is quite stupid.
Look up Northeastern Illinois. Even if the top 2% only got As there (hahaha), those top 2% wouldn't be as smart as most Harvard students.

you're really living up to your avatar, Regina.

 

[Boolean]

The whole percentages is quite stupid.
Look up Northeastern Illinois. Even if the top 2% only got As there (hahaha), those top 2% wouldn't be as smart as most Harvard students.

GPA != Intelligence.

 

[deleted535750]

The whole percentages is quite stupid.
Look up Northeastern Illinois. Even if the top 2% only got As there (hahaha), those top 2% wouldn't be as smart as most Harvard students.

Do you feel bad that you may have peaked in high school? That there are better people than you at your top school who are showing you that you aren't all that (someone ALWAYS gets the A, so why not you?). While kids who went to state schools who you thought "they don't have a future, but now I'm going to be a doctor because I'm going to a top school " are working hard to improve themselves, make themselves better to create a better application for medical school than they had for undergraduate.

 

[PurpleLove]

Do you feel bad that you may have peaked in high school? That there are better people than you at your top school who are showing you that you aren't all that (someone ALWAYS gets the A, so why not you?). While kids who went to state schools who you thought "they don't have a future, but now I'm going to be a doctor because I'm going to a top school " are working hard to improve themselves, make themselves better to create a better application for medical school than they had for undergraduate.

Uhm no, I just think there isn't equality amongst schools as far as the GPA thing goes.
And I am moving up. I got pretty good grades last quarter (almost 3.4 Science now), I will get into medical school and I will still think it's unfair.

 

[deleted535750]

Uhm no, I just think there isn't equality amongst schools as far as the GPA thing goes.
And I am moving up. I got pretty good grades last quarter (almost 3.4 Science now), I will get into medical school and I will still think it's unfair.

Yeah, the system is flawed! Just look at the faculty at UChicago like I did just now. Though many faculty went to top schools for undergraduate, it looks like a lot of faculty went to state schools (not UC Berkeley, UCLA etc.) and not top private schools for their undergraduate. UChicago MUST be a bad school, it's letting people who went to not top schools for undergraduate RUN a top school!!

 

[PurpleLove]

Yeah, the system is flawed! Just look at the faculty at UChicago like I did just now. Though many faculty went to top schools for undergraduate, it looks like a lot of faculty went to state schools (not UC Berkeley, UCLA etc.) and not top private schools for their undergraduate. UChicago MUST be a bad school, it's letting people who went to not top schools for undergraduate RUN a top school!!

Cept I never said people who go to state schools are dumb. I said the GPA component of an application is very flawed. And that smart people at some state schools will have way higher GPA's than the same level of smart people at deflating schools, while working less hard.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Can we like... not do this again?

 

[PurpleLove]

Can we like... not do this again?

Nope, because instead of answering my questions, people replied to why they went to state schools (which I can assume why and don't change my mind easily) or other things I clearly did not ask.

 

[XmedBarney]

Nope, because instead of answering my questions, people replied to why they went to state schools (which I can assume why and don't change my mind easily) or other things I clearly did not ask.

Uhhhhhhh....... The more interesting question is "why did you"? Please enlighten us.

 

[MDforMee]

Nope, because instead of answering my questions, people replied to why they went to state schools (which I can assume why and don't change my mind easily) or other things I clearly did not ask.

You're discovering -- how I did -- that a lot of people from mediocre undergrads get defensive when you bring up topics like this. Search my post history for some of the things I'm talking about, lol

 

[geneexpression]

I'm a post-bacc who went to a mediocre undergrad and came out with a 3.95 GPA. U mad? Don't be. My GPA won't get me into an Ivy because I don't stand as high of a chance at rocking the MCAT coming from a non-science background. Wah.

 

[Gifted Hands]

You're discovering -- how I did -- that a lot of people from mediocre undergrads get defensive when you bring up topics like this. Search my post history for some of the things I'm talking about, lol

Uh no I think they get defensive when you assume their schools are mediocre without any supporting evidence other than it's not a "top school." You know what they say about those who assume...

 

[PurpleLove]

I'm a post-bacc who went to a mediocre undergrad and came out with a 3.95 GPA. U mad? Don't be. My GPA won't get me into an Ivy because I don't stand as high of a chance at rocking the MCAT coming from a non-science background. Wah.

Post-baccs are easy and hah, needed to do a post-bacc?

 

[PurpleLove]

Uh no I think they get defensive when you assume their schools are mediocre without and supporting evidence other than it's not a "top school." You know what they say about those who assume...

Uh, like I said. I'm not talking out of my ass. I have more than enough proof to be able to see the differences.

 

[Gifted Hands]

Post-baccs are easy and hah, needed to do a post-bacc?

Really??? Stop trollin it's kind of sad at this point.

 

[PurpleLove]

You're discovering -- how I did -- that a lot of people from mediocre undergrads get defensive when you bring up topics like this. Search my post history for some of the things I'm talking about, lol

Right, they think they're smart haha. With their plug-in questions and not having to do ****. Well I guess that's the good thing about going to a top school. You get the hardest of the hard.

 

[geneexpression]

Post-baccs are easy and hah, needed to do a post-bacc?

Because I wasn't pre-med as an undergrad, not because I needed a GPA boost. Hence the 3.95 GPA. Lol you can't even read.

 

[Gifted Hands]

Uh, like I said. I'm not talking out of my ass. I have more than enough proof to be able to see the differences.

And what proof is that? Your friends at community college? The world is bigger than your little bubble.

 

[PurpleLove]

And what proof is that? Your friends at community college? The world is bigger than your little bubble.

My friends/tutorees at community colleges, sucky colleges (Northeastern/Western/Northern/etc), mediocre private schools (Loyola/Depaul), and top schools (Northwestern/U Chicago).

 

[XmedBarney]

Right, they think they're smart haha. With their plug-in questions and not having to do ****. Well I guess that's the good thing about going to a top school. You get the hardest of the hard.

😀

I think you need the hard thing.

 

[Gifted Hands]

My friends at community colleges, sucky colleges (Northeastern/Western/Nothern/etc), mediocre private schools (Loyola/Depaul), and top schools (Northwestern/U Chicago).

I just can't... You are a beautiful troll. Seriously I'm shocked you've stuck around this long. Just for sh*ts and giggles have you ever been outside of Illinois?

 

[PurpleLove]

I just can't... You are a beautiful troll. Seriously I'm shocked you've stuck around this long. Just for sh*ts and giggles have you ever been outside of Illinois?

Nope. So I know it all. I DO my friends' work for them. Especially my borderline ******ed friend who couldn't pass pre-Algebra and got a B in Chemistry by sitting there with her thumb in her ass. Her online homework and plugging in random letters got her a B. LOLLLLLLLL.

 

[Boolean]

Nope. So I know it all. I DO my friends' work for them. Especially my borderline ******ed friend who couldn't pass pre-Algebra and got a B in Chemistry by sitting there with her thumb in her ass. Her online homework and plugging in random letters got her a B. LOLLLLLLLL.

You know, if you stopped doing other people's homework you'd likely have a higher GPA

 

[PurpleLove]

You know, if you stopped doing your friends homework you would likely have a higher GPA.

It was the summer before I entered college.







Hence some schools being easy as ****. My public high school education allowed me to get all 100's on online homework at "good universities".

 

[Gifted Hands]

Nope. So I know it all. I DO my friends' work for them. Especially my borderline ******ed friend who couldn't pass pre-Algebra and got a B in Chemistry by sitting there with her thumb in her ass. Her online homework and plugging in random letters got her a B. LOLLLLLLLL.

Nice. So why aren't you at Harvard? Or better yet why can't you get an A to save your life? Maybe if you spent less time doing your friends HW and showing everyone how smart you are, you'd have the grades to back up your superiority complex. #JusSayin

 

[Gifted Hands]

You know, if you stopped doing other people's homework you'd likely have a higher GPA

Beat me to it!