Why do DO's hide their credentials from the public?

[dasta]

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I posted this originally under "do you tell people you are going to an 'osteopathic' medical school," but it occurred to me that perhaps it would better serve as its own thread. This is a question that has long puzzled me.

I understand the unwillingness to get into it with people who think DOs are chiropractors. We are a growing minority. If we don't advocate for ourselves, who will?

The world has been brainwashed through history that the only people who are true doctors are M.D.'s, thereby disenfranchising via word alone all those others who have also done doctoral work: DO's, OD's, PhD's, ND's, EdD's, chiropractors, ScD's, etc. When someone says doctor, people naturally think "medical doctor," hence M.D.

But, in my opinion, DO's are also responsible for their own obscurity through their behavior of hiding their credentials and avoiding explaining that DO's are medical doctors, too. At my doctor's office and in the surgery wards, all the DO's wear lab coats or scrubs that say "Dr. ____" while all the MD's wear lab coats that say "____ M.D." Why not say "____ DO"? I recently saw book by "Dr. Tom Yee", a DO, while all the other medical books written by MD's say things like "_____ M.D." Why? I saw a newspaper ad for a DO plastic surgeon. Dressed in scrubs, smiling, but no where on the ad does it say DO except in small print. His scrubs say "Dr. Craig ____." Why doesn't it say, "Craig ____ DO"?

As long as DO's hide their credentials the rest of the world is never going to know what DO's are and what they can do vis-a-vis MD's. Training more DO's helps but DO's have to do their part and let the public know who they really are, otherwise they will still labor in obscurity and misunderstanding. DO's should be proud to be medical doctors, because they are medical doctors.

 

[crys20]

i didnt know you could not put your degree on your coat. my plan was to just conveinently let my stethoscope or something big in my chest pocket obscure those last 2 letters after my name 😉

no agreed tho, be proud of your education! there are some quick and dirty ways of simply explaining osteopathic med i think.

 

[docbill]

my plan was to just conveinently let my stethoscope or something big in my chest pocket obscure those last 2 letters after my name 😉 QUOTE]

crys20... that is funnnyyyyy. See most people on here are guys. But recently I noticed your mdapplication and you are a lovely female.

So this makes your post 👍

 

[docbill]

I posted this originally under "do you tell people you are going to an 'osteopathic' medical school," but it occurred to me that perhaps it would better serve as its own thread. This is a question that has long puzzled me.


The world has been brainwashed through history that the only people who are true doctors are M.D.'s, thereby disenfranchising via word alone all those others who have also done doctoral work: DO's, OD's, PhD's, ND's, EdD's, chiropractors, ScD's, etc. When someone says doctor, people naturally think "medical doctor," hence M.D.

But, in my opinion, DO's are also responsible for their own obscurity through their behavior of hiding their credentials and avoiding explaining that DO's are medical doctors, too. At my doctor's office and in the surgery wards, all the DO's wear lab coats or scrubs that say "Dr. ____" while all the MD's wear lab coats that say "____ M.D." Why not say "____ DO"? I recently saw book by "Dr. Tom Yee", a DO, while all the other medical books written by MD's say things like "_____ M.D." Why? I saw a newspaper ad for a DO plastic surgeon. Dressed in scrubs, smiling, but no where on the ad does it say DO except in small print. His scrubs say "Dr. Craig ____." Why doesn't it say, "Craig ____ DO"?

As long as DO's hide their credentials the rest of the world is never going to know what DO's are and what they can do vis-a-vis MD's. Training more DO's helps but DO's have to do their part and let the public know who they really are, otherwise they will still labor in obscurity and misunderstanding. DO's should be proud to be medical doctors, because they are medical doctors.

Oh to this OP post.

Thanks for bringing up this stupid topic again. GOD forbid it has been a while since DO identity threads have been away. hmmm see the original post you did a few minutes before this one. Thank you for bringing it up again. Maybe you should right a letter to AOA and AMA to let them know exactly how you feel.

BTW... a question for you. an MBMS from other countries are they called MD in North America. Do they put Dr._Dick_Head on their coat.

The true fact is when you do an DO you are = to an MD. Hence, that is why you get to treat the same patients.

 

[Buck Strong]

Actually, I've seen alot of hospitals that give everyone the Dr. in front of their name, and makes no distinction between the MD and DO, i'm totally cool with that. But...

What I do have a problem with is the die hard DO's who keep repeating the AOA slogan of "treating the whole patient, not just symptoms", or "it's just like MD school, but we're learn OMM in addition to what the MD's learn" and etc., etc. Meanwhile, DO's are running as fast as they can to allopathic residencies, instead of AOA residencies where they can practice OMM. Also, I ran into a DO college buddy of mine last weekend and he was complaining to me about how hard it was to match in MD Ophtho, because there was a DO stigma. Well, last I checked, there was no OMM in ophtho, and treating the eye doesn't really involve treating the whole patient from head to toe. It seems that some DO's just sprout the slogans whenever it is convenient...which kinda irks me. Just my 2 cents...otherwise, you guys are doing a great job. 👍

 

[OSUdoc08]

I posted this originally under "do you tell people you are going to an 'osteopathic' medical school," but it occurred to me that perhaps it would better serve as its own thread. This is a question that has long puzzled me.



The world has been brainwashed through history that the only people who are true doctors are M.D.'s, thereby disenfranchising via word alone all those others who have also done doctoral work: DO's, OD's, PhD's, ND's, EdD's, chiropractors, ScD's, etc. When someone says doctor, people naturally think "medical doctor," hence M.D.

But, in my opinion, DO's are also responsible for their own obscurity through their behavior of hiding their credentials and avoiding explaining that DO's are medical doctors, too. At my doctor's office and in the surgery wards, all the DO's wear lab coats or scrubs that say "Dr. ____" while all the MD's wear lab coats that say "____ M.D." Why not say "____ DO"? I recently saw book by "Dr. Tom Yee", a DO, while all the other medical books written by MD's say things like "_____ M.D." Why? I saw a newspaper ad for a DO plastic surgeon. Dressed in scrubs, smiling, but no where on the ad does it say DO except in small print. His scrubs say "Dr. Craig ____." Why doesn't it say, "Craig ____ DO"?

As long as DO's hide their credentials the rest of the world is never going to know what DO's are and what they can do vis-a-vis MD's. Training more DO's helps but DO's have to do their part and let the public know who they really are, otherwise they will still labor in obscurity and misunderstanding. DO's should be proud to be medical doctors, because they are medical doctors.

Every time I've seen a DO in the hospital, it has said "_______, DO"

I've never seen a white coat that says "Dr. _____ "

This could be hospital policy, or just a mere coincidence.

The one time I've seen "Dr. _____" in the clinic, it said "osteopathic family medicine" below the name

 

[hotlikebutter]

Actually, I've seen alot of hospitals that give everyone the Dr. in front of their name, and makes no distinction between the MD and DO, i'm totally cool with that. But...

What I do have a problem with is the die hard DO's who keep repeating the AOA slogan of "treating the whole patient, not just symptoms", or "it's just like MD school, but we're learn OMM in addition to what the MD's learn" and etc., etc. Meanwhile, DO's are running as fast as they can to allopathic residencies, instead of AOA residencies where they can practice OMM. Also, I ran into a DO college buddy of mine last weekend and he was complaining to me about how hard it was to match in MD Ophtho, because there was a DO stigma. Well, last I checked, there was no OMM in ophtho, and treating the eye doesn't really involve treating the whole patient from head to toe. It seems that some DO's just sprout the slogans whenever it is convenient...which kinda irks me. Just my 2 cents...otherwise, you guys are doing a great job. 👍

OMM cant be used to treat everything, no intelligent osteopathic student or physician claims this. it is a modality and treatment no more than our education on calcium sparing diuretics. my point is all therapies have their use, when you try one therapy for all you become a magician not a clinician.

you are absolutely right though, the very best clinicians practice on a thin line between DO and MD education. they recognize the power of all proven therapies. Hardcore DOs are missing the big picture, but so are the hardcore MD's.

 

[JohnDO]

Not sure what hospital you've been at, but every DO that I've seen has had:

"Name, D.O."

If I'm not mistaken, hospitals sometimes have a policy on whether or not to put "Dr. John" or "John, D.O."

It seems that some DO's just sprout the slogans whenever it is convenient...which kinda irks me. Just my 2 cents...otherwise, you guys are doing a great job.

Perhaps. But remember this has always been the osteopathic modality (since 1892).

 

[Shodddy18]

Just have to echo what everyone else has said. Every DO I have seen has DO after their name. The only exception was in a hospital where all the docs had Dr. before their name... D.O.s and M.D.s.

 

[MSc44]

Not sure what hospital you've been at, but every DO that I've seen has had:

"Name, D.O."

If I'm not mistaken, hospitals sometimes have a policy on whether or not to put "Dr. John" or "John, D.O."
Perhaps. But remember this has always been the osteopathic modality (since 1892).

In the hospital which i worked this was done but really only t o distinguish between the DPT's, and the PhD's in nursing, DDS and DPM or other doctoral degrees. It was not done to distinguish between MD and DO as a matter of fact all Physicians had John Doe, MD on their lab coats wether they had an MD, DO, MBBS, etc...............i dont know why its such a big deal.......a physician is a physician

 

[crys20]

really, the DOs had MD on their coat??

 

[Taus]

Apparently that happens a lot in some hospitals, in exactly the same situation/rationale as described in the above post. It just goes to show that people in the real world could give a **** about MD vs. DO....they just want a good doctor...period.

 

[JohnnyOU]

Here at Norman Regional...we have about half-half DO/MD in the ER.

I asked one of the nurses if she knew the difference...she said "Nope...they're all really smart. But Dr. ****** can do this awesome stuff to everyone's backs and necks."

Apparently he's been doing some free OMM to the nurses and they loved him for it 😀

 

[group_theory]

The title is quite misleading. It should be "Why do some people choose to hide their DO credentials".

With such a small sample size in a purely observational fashion, one cannot conclude anything about general attitudes of practicing DOs or any particular trends.

(and people said EBM was useless) 🙂

Just stating the obvious =)

 

[gtleeee]

Most of this stuff about DOs hiding their credentials via "Dr X" on nametags as opposed to "XX D.O." and similar nonsense is submitted by pre-meds and med students who have probably heard one silly anecdote or another from some one and than assumed via their lack experience in the health care field that such a practice is commonplace. In 25 years...(since I started med school D.O. at KUMB in 1979), I have seen such a thing twice, with a degree left off a nametag in a hospital.

 

[Freshnstylin]

eh, you have a point but the same thing goes with MDs who refuse to accept the osteopathic practice as "real" medicine. You will have your extemes in every discipline. The best is to deal with the majority. From my experience, most DOs and DO students are excited about being doctors and having the opportunity to practice medicine. As well as most MDs embracing the osteopathic practice as real medicine. Most people in my class and even the 4th year students vying for residencies are not too worried about matching and would gladly take an osteopathic residency. I know I would...every group will have it's annoying outliers and pessimists...who cares. We are all out, hopefully, to practice medicine the best we can.

Actually, I've seen alot of hospitals that give everyone the Dr. in front of their name, and makes no distinction between the MD and DO, i'm totally cool with that. But...

What I do have a problem with is the die hard DO's who keep repeating the AOA slogan of "treating the whole patient, not just symptoms", or "it's just like MD school, but we're learn OMM in addition to what the MD's learn" and etc., etc. Meanwhile, DO's are running as fast as they can to allopathic residencies, instead of AOA residencies where they can practice OMM. Also, I ran into a DO college buddy of mine last weekend and he was complaining to me about how hard it was to match in MD Ophtho, because there was a DO stigma. Well, last I checked, there was no OMM in ophtho, and treating the eye doesn't really involve treating the whole patient from head to toe. It seems that some DO's just sprout the slogans whenever it is convenient...which kinda irks me. Just my 2 cents...otherwise, you guys are doing a great job. 👍

 

[yourworstnightmare]

I think it is a good point made that some DOs tend to downplay the DO title in lieu of "Dr". Perhaps it is easier to not have to explain or maybe they do have issues with it not being "MD". I have two friends who are DOs. One has an orthopedic practice and the other is in pain management. Both are excellent at what they do and yet their advertisments and stationary say Dr. M--- and Dr B-----. I can only think that they wish to downplay the "DO"..

YWNM 😳

 

[Munchkin6245]

I think a lot of premeds and med students a like have absolutely no clue on hospital policy. Before I was in med school I was a Med Tech. I worked at 3 different hospitals and did student rotations at 7 different health facilities. What is put on your coat is what the hospital policy makers decide. Unless they decide to let you choose, which I rarely found was the case. At one hospital my coat said MT(ASCP), at another it just said Medical Technologist. My degree is a BS in CLS but I've never had that put on my coat. I'm a certified scientist of clinical laboratory medicine, because I have two licences but of course when I say what I did I'd say I "worked in the lab". It seems that people in this forum are making a big deal about something that probably won't be a deciding factor whether or not you're going to be a doctor or not.

Here's my advice: Find something more useful to bicker about. You are wasting your time complaining when you could be doing something more useful for other people or for yourself.

When you get to med school, worry about school. When you get to choose a residency and a job, then find out what the hospital policy is on Name Tags. If you don't like it see if you can change it to what you want. Otherwise, don't work there. Remember, there is going to be a lot more that hospital policy is going to allow you to do or not to do other than a simple thing as a name tag. People make their own choices, and I think it's absolutely ******ed that students are complaining about it when it's probably not going to be in your control in the future anyways.

Now, back to Anatomy.

 

[novacek88]

I understand what you are saying but the problem is the osteopathic world doesn't do much in regards to creating residency programs particularly in specialized fields, and improving the ones that already exist.

It's a lot harder to assert your DO identity when most of us are being trained at allopathic programs and by allopathic doctors which is due to necessity and not choice due to the limited number of osteopathic programs. I know my programs is very DO friendly and gladly accepts osteopathic students into it. However, if we DO students started flexing our DO pride, we would annoy a lot of our allopathic colleagues and probably their policy of taking in osteopathic students would drop.

If you want the public to recognize DO's then we need to do more than start a letter writing campaign to television studios asking shows like ER to cast more DO's. If you want to the public to recognize, then why don't we start creating more osteopathic teaching hospitals in cities that lack osteopathic physicians? We should stop opening new schools each year and instead open more osteopathic residencies particularly in specialized fields. Why don't we focus on improving the quality and breadth of the residencies that exist.

So the next time you decide to complain that we aren't doing enough. Why don't you look to the AOA and you will get your answer as to why most DO's after graduation care very little about the AOA and the osteopathic mission in general. Most of us have realized the AOA is a self serving group that has no interest in truly improving the quality of programs aka SPEND MONEY. They only seek to earn more money by opening up new schools while depending upon allopathic hospitals and physicians to train us.

 

[njaqua]

I saw a commercial for the AMA last night and there were two MDs and one DO featured. I thought it was kind of cool. If we can get the name recognition and the equivalence of the degrees established then we can work on establishing a separate (but equal) identity.

 

[Dr Alo]

It all depends on what hospital you end up at. But I haven't heard of any DO's being switched or forced to wear MD after their names.

 

[Raggaman]

After a become a D.O., I will write MD after my name everywhere.

 

[(nicedream)]

I can see the attraction in not putting DO after your name simply in order to avoid confusion by potential and actual patients. I guarantee you when someone is looking in the phonebook for a dr they are looking for MD after the name or Dr. before it, and if they saw DO, the average person would not know it's a dr.


Vis-a-vis the AOA vs the AMA. The AMA is a great, professional, competent organization with the best of intentions for all its members, be they MDs or DOs. We as DOs are lucky to have them as our advocates. The AOA has shown itself to be woefully inept at accomplishing its stated missions, and at times its stated missions themselves are questionable. Just look at the publication The DO - I find it an embarassment.

 

[Portier]

I'm guessing, and I do mean guessing.....that if you PAID for an advertisment...let's say a road side sign...and put

JOE BLOW, Osteopathic Physician

you might be less successful in attracting new patients (at least here in Louisiana). In my experience they mistake Osteopathic for Orthopaedic...and bring you broken bones.

If you put

JOE BLOW, DO, Family Medicine Specialist

That might prompt more questions about whether or not you're a doctor.



If you put

Dr JOE BLOW, Family Medicine Specialist

Maybe that would work better...they'd assume you're an MD (Like Trapper John, Quincy, and that cute guy on ER), and come and spend their 40 dollars.

 

[dasta]

Well, I didn't realize that I would cause such a ruckus. I had intended to simply point out something that I observed at the hospital where I work, and connected it to that aspect of DO practice. And as far as having DO on their lab coats, at this hospital only "Dr." but it is apparently different at other places.

It's not that I don't like DOs, I want to be one someday myself. In the meantime, I'll shut up and go crawl back under the rock from which I came.

 

[(nicedream)]

Well, I didn't realize that I would cause such a ruckus. I had intended to simply point out something that I observed at the hospital where I work, and connected it to that aspect of DO practice. And as far as having DO on their lab coats, at this hospital only "Dr." but it is apparently different at other places.

It's not that I don't like DOs, I want to be one someday myself. In the meantime, I'll shut up and go crawl back under the rock from which I came.

Nothing to apologize for, I don't think you caused a ruckus. It's a valid point, and as I and some others said, there can be an inclination to using Dr. instead of DO for reasons of clarity to the layperson. It's not hiding credentials though, it's actually clarifying credentials (credentials being a licensed physician, not which letters you have).

 

[BACMEDIC]

I've been to a few hospitals and all the D.O.s were clearly marked as such.


On rotations this week I saw a doctor's bin and how he was advertised: It was Dr. XXXXXXXX

Under all the things he did it stated he was an M.D. Now I wonder why he was trying to hide his degree? Ya, you got it - this topic is just BS

 

[VentdependenT]

I just say I'm a nurse.

 

[BadVB750]

I just say I'm a nurse.

I like to ask for directions to the local super market.

 

[Shinken]

I don't know what the big deal is! Everyone knows what a Doctor of Optometry is! Why would a DO want to hide that?!?

 

[NTM]

Apparently that happens a lot in some hospitals, in exactly the same situation/rationale as described in the above post. It just goes to show that people in the real world could give a **** about MD vs. DO....they just want a good doctor...period.

You know, to procrastinate I like reading on the osteopathic website to see what others have to say about their field and it never amazes me how insecure so many people are. The truth is none of these threads would be created if you guys were proud of the "D.O." and you should be. What I have a problem with is when D.O.'s or future D.O.'s attempt to validate themselves with M.D.'s and a lot of times this deals with minimizing what a M.D. really means throughout the course of history. You seldom find other M.D.s talking about DOs the way you guys do on here, simply because MDs could care less and maybe its because they do not need to validate themselves at the expense of putting other professions down. You are right about people wanting a good doctor, where you are wrong is credentials do play an important part, it tells their patients who qualified they are and as a patient I would want the most qualified physician, who is a top tier doctor academically and based on solid scientific research to support the way he practices medicine. The truth is DO's do not do research nor are they academian focused. We had a DO come talk to my class once and he too did not reveal his credentials except for very small print and on his coat said "Dr...." So why dont you take pride in your chosen profession and quit feeling so inadequate.

 

[Taus]

relax buddy...and since when did doing academic research by an individual Doctor correlate to how well he or she performs as a clinician?

Personally...I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing research....helping people in face-to-face is where my interest lies....I can't understand how that will make me any less of a clinician...if it does...so be it....I'll leave the research to the people who are passionate about it...

 

[NTM]

relax buddy...and since when did doing academic research by an individual Doctor correlate to how well he or she performs as a clinician?

Personally...I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing research....helping people in face-to-face is where my interest lies....I can't understand how that will make me any less of a clinician...if it does...so be it....I'll leave the research to the people who are passionate about it...

Thats a scary thought especially when it is through research that allows the practice of medicine to continually evolve and through research that allows doctors to be able to provide to their patients the most up to date information - ever heard of EBM? Being a doctor just doesnt mean that you can call yourself "doctor" by any means possible and rest on these "achievmeents" but it means a lifetime of learning - didnt anybody ever tell you that buddy? To truly help the lives of others whose lives rest on your decisions, I think it best that you have all the information available before making any decision.

 

[Taus]

Evidenced Based Medicine...yes I'm aware of it....but I thought all that molecular bio/pharmacology/path/etc that I am and will be learning was just a joke. I've decided that I'm not going to be able to use that info and will have no idea how to treat a patient correctly because I wasn't the lab rat doing the bench work. I did not realize that staying up to date on current changes in the medical profession throughout the rest of my life was needed. I guess that I should cancel my subscription to JAMA asap. Thank you for enlightening me.

P.S. If I wanted to do research I would have gone for a PhD.

 

[NTM]

Evidenced Based Medicine...yes I'm aware of it....but I thought all that molecular bio/pharmalogy/path/etc that I am and will be learning was just a joke. I've decided that I'm not going to be able to use that info and will have no idea how to treat a patient correctly because I wasn't the lab rat doing the bench work. I did not realize that staying up to date on current changes in the medical profession throughout the rest of my life was needed. I guess that I should cancel my subscription to JAMA asap. Thank you for enlightening me.

P.S. If I wanted to do research I would have gone for a PhD.

I see one of your problems already, reading comprehension. Current research has nothing to do with changes in the medical profession, it has to do with keeping physicians competant and able to provide their patients with the most up to date information. Its sad to say that your patients will be more informed then you are now with Medline and Pubmed at the public's disposal. No you shouldn't cancel your JAMA, but maybe you should get the less challenging version, the one that excludes all of those confusing statistics, research findings, and big words. Come on, admit it, you just subscribed to JAMA to look important, even though you probably have never read one page of it. Thats alright though, atleast you can call yourself "doctor" in a couple of years.

 

[Taus]

haha...thanks for the laughs...I needed that...im out....enjoy the rest of your night

ps..i subscribed to JAMA so I had something good to read while on the can...

 

[gtleeee]

You know, to procrastinate I like reading on the osteopathic website to see what others have to say about their field and it never amazes me how insecure so many people are. The truth is none of these threads would be created if you guys were proud of the "D.O." and you should be. What I have a problem with is when D.O.'s or future D.O.'s attempt to validate themselves with M.D.'s and a lot of times this deals with minimizing what a M.D. really means throughout the course of history. You seldom find other M.D.s talking about DOs the way you guys do on here, simply because MDs could care less and maybe its because they do not need to validate themselves at the expense of putting other professions down. You are right about people wanting a good doctor, where you are wrong is credentials do play an important part, it tells their patients who qualified they are and as a patient I would want the most qualified physician, who is a top tier doctor academically and based on solid scientific research to support the way he practices medicine. The truth is DO's do not do research nor are they academian focused. We had a DO come talk to my class once and he too did not reveal his credentials except for very small print and on his coat said "Dr...." So why dont you take pride in your chosen profession and quit



NTM is a little punk second year student in Florida. Don't waste your time replying to his drivel. He's worthless.

 

[stookie]

I think the general public would accept DOs more readily if they were trained at Ivy League schools. Since these schools are top teir and are well known by the public, this would create a great amount of exposure for DOs. Also, I heard that Harvard is starting to teach OMT as a continuing medical education course for MDs who want to learn OMT. Is it true? This could be the break that osteopathic physicians have been waiting for. If so, all they have to do now is play their cards right, and expose the profession to the public. They will probally become widely accepted. but that's my opinion

 

[newbie04]

JAOA • Vol 105 • No 3 • March 2005 • 126-128

LETTER

Faith versus Evidence: The Real Question in Osteopathic Medicine?

John H. Juhl, DO
Gary L. Ostrow, DO, Clinical Assistant Adjunct Professor of Osteopathic Medicine

During the last decade, as DOs have increasingly disconnected from their heritage of OPP, allopathic groups are offering more manual medicine courses. Michael A. Seffinger, DO; R. Todd Dombroski, DO; and Carl W. Steele, DO, presented a workshop at a national meeting for the American Academy of Family Physicians (see Workshop Link ). In addition, S. Noone, Executive Director of the American Academy of Osteopathy, indicated that in August 2004, Jerel H. Glassman, DO, MPH, presented a manual medicine workshop at Harvard Medical School in Cambridge, Mass, that was sold out (oral communication, March 2005). Finally, the Association of American Medical Colleges will convene a special panel to write a Medical School Objectives Project special report regarding the importance of musculoskeletal education as part of the predoctoral curriculum at the nation's medical schools (S. Noone, oral communication, March 2005).

 

[NTM]

You know, to procrastinate I like reading on the osteopathic website to see what others have to say about their field and it never amazes me how insecure so many people are. The truth is none of these threads would be created if you guys were proud of the "D.O." and you should be. What I have a problem with is when D.O.'s or future D.O.'s attempt to validate themselves with M.D.'s and a lot of times this deals with minimizing what a M.D. really means throughout the course of history. You seldom find other M.D.s talking about DOs the way you guys do on here, simply because MDs could care less and maybe its because they do not need to validate themselves at the expense of putting other professions down. You are right about people wanting a good doctor, where you are wrong is credentials do play an important part, it tells their patients who qualified they are and as a patient I would want the most qualified physician, who is a top tier doctor academically and based on solid scientific research to support the way he practices medicine. The truth is DO's do not do research nor are they academian focused. We had a DO come talk to my class once and he too did not reveal his credentials except for very small print and on his coat said "Dr...." So why dont you take pride in your chosen profession and quit



NTM is a little punk second year student in Florida. Don't waste your time replying to his drivel. He's worthless.

Well, "Dr GTEEEE" I most definitely expected more from a 54 year old, mature individual, but I see your immaturity can't stop you from using such fighting words as "punk." Honestly, your words instantly uncover your own insecurities and inner inadequacies from your on plight with your degree. I never, ever insulted the D.O. profession, just questioned one's dismisal of the importance of research in the lives of clinicians. Yet, here comes grandpa chiming in about his inadequacies in his "safe zone." Let me guess you are one of those instead of having his credentials after his name just have Dr. GTEEEE? Grow up and dont you have something better to do than get on the "studentforum?"

 

[Shodddy18]

You know, to procrastinate I like reading on the osteopathic website to see what others have to say about their field and it never amazes me how insecure so many people are. The truth is none of these threads would be created if you guys were proud of the "D.O." and you should be. What I have a problem with is when D.O.'s or future D.O.'s attempt to validate themselves with M.D.'s and a lot of times this deals with minimizing what a M.D. really means throughout the course of history. You seldom find other M.D.s talking about DOs the way you guys do on here, simply because MDs could care less and maybe its because they do not need to validate themselves at the expense of putting other professions down. You are right about people wanting a good doctor, where you are wrong is credentials do play an important part, it tells their patients who qualified they are and as a patient I would want the most qualified physician, who is a top tier doctor academically and based on solid scientific research to support the way he practices medicine. The truth is DO's do not do research nor are they academian focused. We had a DO come talk to my class once and he too did not reveal his credentials except for very small print and on his coat said "Dr...." So why dont you take pride in your chosen profession and quit



NTM is a little punk second year student in Florida. Don't waste your time replying to his drivel. He's worthless.

That makes sense...

 

[tkim]

hmmm - lots of posturing here. time to close?

 

[Nate]

This one needs to be burned, not just closed.

 

[jhug]

So why dont you take pride in your chosen profession and quit feeling so inadequate.

He's actually got a great point...
i just finished one of the BEST rotations i could possibly dream of having and all i got from local DO's was "i hope they aren't being mean to our little OMS's there at that big, mean, academic hopsital" (misspelled for emphasis)
i found it profoundly depressing that these docs are so incredibly weak that they have to hold on to the oppressed, down-trodden, subjective role after all these years...

 

[NTM]

He's actually got a great point...
i just finished one of the BEST rotations i could possibly dream of having and all i got from local DO's was "i hope they aren't being mean to our little OMS's there at that big, mean, academic hopsital" (misspelled for emphasis)
i found it profoundly depressing that these docs are so incredibly weak that they have to hold on to the oppressed, down-trodden, subjective role after all these years...

Thank you. I understand why a lot of DO's may feel they have to defend themselves 24/7, but my initial point was to never degrade the importance of DO or MD's. My whole point was focused on patient care and providing the best care possible and in my opinion this requires the physician to be up to date with current research as well as being able to apply in his everyday practice. I know when we had to learn it I hated it, but since then realilze the importance of it in medicine as well as to the point that Im also involved in research. Without research how does medicine advance? Can you imagine where we would be now if not for the many wonderful medical advances over the decades? DO's are great, I go to a DO as my primary. So dont think Im a DO basher, believe it or not, I did choose to go into medicine to make a difference and to help people. So I could care less if you are a DO, PA, NP, or tech, be proud of your chosen profession as we all are needed in our own ways and without each one of our unique disciplines and philosophies tx becomes unidemensional. My beef goes out to the DO's who take their defense of their professional beyond that of a professional level and to that of a personal level as if they were trying to cover up for some inner inadequacies. (Yes, I have a doctorate in clinical psycholgy to). Bottom line, you dont have to burn this thread or stop it, you all have to quit being so defensive and have an educated discussion - think you have in u?

 

[oldManDO2009]

I have to keep learning after doctor skool???? I thought I got the AOA issued coloring book and as long as I colored inside the lines I was good to go!


hey did anybody notice the latest AMA commercial .... MDs & DOs side by side just like in the real world so get a grip people we all read the same journals

 

[Pharos]

I have to keep learning after doctor skool???? I thought I got the AOA issued coloring book and as long as I colored inside the lines I was good to go!


hey did anybody notice the latest AMA commercial .... MDs & DOs side by side just like in the real world so get a grip people we all read the same journals

Yes I did see this commercial - you are correct (one of the four docs shown was a DO).

 

[jhug]

hey did anybody notice the latest AMA commercial ....

total propaganda by the enemy!!! the AMA is trying to steal us by actually doing something to improve medicine and our future as physicians...
which ironically is something the aoa knows nothing about...they are too busy pushing important issues like making sure we all use O-MS and getting DO's on Everwood...or opening as many schools as possible without thinking that someday we'll all need do a residency!

 

[cornellmedic]

I think the general public would accept DOs more readily if they were trained at Ivy League schools. Since these schools are top teir and are well known by the public, this would create a great amount of exposure for DOs. Also, I heard that Harvard is starting to teach OMT as a continuing medical education course for MDs who want to learn OMT. Is it true? This could be the break that osteopathic physicians have been waiting for. If so, all they have to do now is play their cards right, and expose the profession to the public. They will probally become widely accepted. but that's my opinion

Probably. There seems to be a definite lack of IVY league graduates that go on to D.O. school. I personally know of...one. Probably because of the image that in ingrained while in undergrad. I know of many premeds at my school that were very competitive with one another. To most, it seems that numbers and titles are so important that they will do what they can to get the prestige that they feel they deserve. D.O schools are somewhat glazed over in the premedical planning committees. They were not even listed on my form to have committee letter of reccomendation letters sent out.
I think that there is some credibility to the rumor of harvard planning on incorporating OMT into the curriculum. I think I remember one of the professors at my school mentioning something to that extent. Sorry, I don't pay all that much attention to lectures.
-Big Red

 

[drusso]

I think that there is some credibility to the rumor of harvard planning on incorporating OMT into the curriculum. I think I remember one of the professors at my school mentioning something to that extent. Sorry, I don't pay all that much attention to lectures.
-Big Red

Some ACGME-accredited residency programs are experimenting with incorporating OMT into their education.

Fam Med. 2005 Nov;37(10):693-5.


Allopathic Family Medicine Residents Can Learn Osteopathic Manipulation Techniques in a 1-month Elective.

Leiber JD.

Malcolm Grow Medical Center Family Medicine Residency, Andrews Air Force Base, Md.

BACKGROUND: Graduating family medicine residents report a relative lack of confidence in managing musculoskeletal problems, and many primary care physicians desire more instruction in manual medicine. METHODS: We conducted a 1-month osteopathic manipulative treatment elective with five allopathic family medicine residents, utilizing multiple teaching and assessment strategies. RESULTS: Residents averaged 30 patient encounters each. Faculty graded their attainment of the knowledge and skills objectives at 3.9 and 3.8 on a 5-point scale, respectively. Residents reported unanimously that the course had reasonable expectations and fostered independent decision making and that they achieved the educational goals. CONCLUSIONS: After a 1-month elective, allopathic residents demonstrated competency in a defined set of osteopathic principles and skills.

Link to PDF