Why do DOs typically prefer allo residencies?

[MaximusD]

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Another case in point showing that you are the one who actually needs to learn something here. A D.O. doesn't need to take the USMLE to participate in the allopathic match/residencies. There are tons of allopathic residencies that are perfectly fine with accepting comlex scores. I never took the USMLE and I'm starting an allopathic IM residency this summer. And I got interviews from every single allopathic IM program I applied to, none of them asked me about USMLE scores.
Sure the super competitive ones are going to want to see those scores, but thats certainly not the norm.

I personally know animus and he definitely understands most of these points. I think you are mis-reading his post. Someone applying to MD residencies is MORE LIKELY to take the USMLE... I think you'd agree with that.

 

[Animus]

looks like we're goin down with this ship, animus.

Yeah, even when you admit you are wrong they continue to hate...at least there is still some good info coming out of this thread.

If nothing else I may have helped get information out of people because they were initially mad at me.

 

[bth7]

Agreed, you already corrected yourself. Why is this guy rehashing the issue?

 

[tkim]

lol maybe you misread my post. I totally submitted that I was incorrect. The language you are referring to is obviously backpedalling... are you getting a thrill out of calling me out when I was wrong? I admitted to it...damn.

"I suppose I stand corrected, then."

Sounds like a guy who's saying it, but not believing it.

Hey, I call it like I see it.

That's what people want - right? Straight-shooters? No mealymouthed hemming-and-hawing? There it is.

You know, for all the bashing premeds get from med students on up for passing anecdotal information around, the same crap happens with med students about preclinical, clinical, match, and residency info. Stuff that they haven't been through and have only heard or read of and are frequently utterly wrong about.

It wasn't cute when the premeds did it. It's a lot more annoying when med students do it, because by now as med students the first thing one would hope we've all learned is that bad info is worse than no info. It's hard to say "I don't know," in medicine, but the further you go through your training, the more important it is that you acknowledge this one simple thing.

Saving face frequently means someone isn't taking total responsibility for their actions, and more importantly, not learning a valuable lesson.

 

[MaximusD]

"I suppose I stand corrected, then."

Sounds like a guy who's saying it, but not believing it.

Hey, I call it like I see it.

That's what people want - right? Straight-shooters? No mealymouthed hemming-and-hawing? There it is.

You know, for all the bashing premeds get from med students on up for passing anecdotal information around, the same crap happens with med students about preclinical, clinical, match, and residency info. Stuff that they haven't been through and have only heard or read of and are frequently utterly wrong about.

It wasn't cute when the premeds did it. It's a lot more annoying when med students do it, because by now as med students the first thing one would hope we've all learned is that bad info is worse than no info. It's hard to say "I don't know," in medicine, but the further you go through your training, the more important it is that you acknowledge this one simple thing.

Saving face frequently means someone isn't taking total responsibility for their actions, and more importantly, not learning a valuable lesson.

Oh thank God you were here to save me from ignorance. You are truly a savior amongst medical students. 🙄

 

[group_theory]

Gentle reminder: play nice now

remember who the real enemy is now

A. AOA
B. MD
C. COMLEX
D. The "Man"
E. sonagram of the pelvis


*this sample COMLEX question was brought to you by the wonderful folks at National Board of Osteopathic Medical Examiners

 

[JadinSleeper]

Reasons why I, as a 4th year DO student, did not apply through the otseopathic match:

1. Quality of training: far and away the number one reason. No DO program could even touch the range of pathology, didactics, patient volume, specialists available, and resources compared to the allopathic university programs where I was offered interviews. This does not apply to every program in every specialty. Some of the DO EM and primary care programs are top-notch, and they are well-known. But the variability in the quality of the programs overall is concerning. There are some gems, but way to many questionable programs. Probably the safest bets are the dually accredited programs.

2. I hate OMT. I don't ever want to do it again. Enough said.

3. I want to be boarded by a mainstream, allopathic, board certification institution, not some no-name osteopathic derivative. And I don't want to have to pay $600 a year in AOA dues to maintain my osteopathic board certification.

4. Geography and selection: closest program to where I wanted to be was 300 miles away.

5. Prestige: yep, it's a factor. I'll admit it. I'd like to be interviewing for positions and have my residency be an asset to my CV, not a liability.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Reasons why I, as a 4th year DO student, did not apply through the otseopathic match:

1. Quality of training: far and away the number one reason. No DO program could even touch the range of pathology, didactics, patient volume, specialists available, and resources compared to the allopathic university programs where I was offered interviews. This does not apply to every program in every specialty. Some of the DO EM and primary care programs are top-notch, and they are well-known. But the variability in the quality of the programs overall is concerning. There are some gems, but way to many questionable programs. Probably the safest bets are the dually accredited programs.

2. I hate OMT. I don't ever want to do it again. Enough said.

3. I want to be boarded by a mainstream, allopathic, board certification institution, not some no-name osteopathic derivative. And I don't want to have to pay $600 a year in AOA dues to maintain my osteopathic board certification.

4. Geography and selection: closest program to where I wanted to be was 300 miles away.

5. Prestige: yep, it's a factor. I'll admit it. I'd like to be interviewing for positions and have my residency be an asset to my CV, not a liability.

You said it dude, I will second all of the above.

 

[LizUMD]

nevermind

 

[Animus]

"I suppose I stand corrected, then."

Sounds like a guy who's saying it, but not believing it.

Hey, I call it like I see it.

That's what people want - right? Straight-shooters? No mealymouthed hemming-and-hawing? There it is.

You know, for all the bashing premeds get from med students on up for passing anecdotal information around, the same crap happens with med students about preclinical, clinical, match, and residency info. Stuff that they haven't been through and have only heard or read of and are frequently utterly wrong about.

It wasn't cute when the premeds did it. It's a lot more annoying when med students do it, because by now as med students the first thing one would hope we've all learned is that bad info is worse than no info. It's hard to say "I don't know," in medicine, but the further you go through your training, the more important it is that you acknowledge this one simple thing.

Saving face frequently means someone isn't taking total responsibility for their actions, and more importantly, not learning a valuable lesson.

I am going to respond because I am assuming part of this was directed at me.

First off, I do not see why you had to push the point with Max, he admitted he was wrong twice. There was no need to try and force the issue again, especially when afterwards you go on to talk about willingness to admit when you are wrong.

As for the med students comment, it may be true and I admitted early on that I was harsh. However, I backed my assumptions up with data I had seen, I just did not take everything into account. I later admitted from further information (thanks again for the 100th time BTH) what I had assumed was indeed incorrect and the true information surprised me as I am sure it did many others, EVEN those that have gone through the match as DO's. It is not like I came in here with my own opinion and started mouthing off without anything to back it up.

Not all of us have older siblings, other relatives or friends who have gone through this process, we get information from what we read or what we can confirm via others. I do not go around to threads like these and continue to post misinformation, in fact not many in this thread posted misinformation so why make it such a point of emphasis?

 

[schrute]

Why shot down? If it made it to the collective student govts, and since the AOA is there to represent the interests of its constituents...

Because it's the AOA's view that a joint match would severely cripple the DO post grad training. More applicants would probably apply DO (not having to fear being pulled out of the MD match) but would ultimately choose MD programs.

The whole thing is about autonomy, and the AOA tries to retain as much of it as it can. Any point the AOA secedes opens the flood gates: if a joint match, why not joint board exams? etc...

The AOA grips as strongly as possible the notion that DO training--especially post-grad training, which is a graduated extension of medical school training--offers something MORE, something unique...
if it doesn't, it nullifies its own existence.

It's politics, and it's BS, and everyone knows it, but until there's mass turnover in the AOA, nothing is going to change.

 

[tkim]

I am going to respond because I am assuming part of this was directed at me.

Actually, no, so I'm not going to address most of the rest of your post.

First off, I do not see why you had to push the point with Max, he admitted he was wrong twice. There was no need to try and force the issue again, especially when afterwards you go on to talk about willingness to admit when you are wrong.

Listen, when you tell someone "I suppose I was wrong", that's a backhanded way of saying "I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that I was right."

"I suppose." Come on. That's crap. That's lip service. That's appeasement while preserving ego.

"Sorry, I was wrong." How about that?

Try saying "I suppose I was wrong about that diagnosis" to an attending. You are either right or wrong. There's no "suppose". Own your words. Geeze.

 

[Animus]

Listen, when you tell someone "I suppose I was wrong", that's a backhanded way of saying "I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that I was right."

"I suppose." Come on. That's crap. That's lip service. That's appeasement while preserving ego.

"Sorry, I was wrong." How about that?

Try saying "I suppose I was wrong about that diagnosis" to an attending. You are either right or wrong. There's no "suppose". Own your words. Geeze.

Ok I will agree with you, although Max did submit twice, he did cop out a bit. In the end Max you are sissy.


Goodluck on the test, although I am going to beat your sorry ***, foo! 😆

 

[theraball]

Reasons why I, as a 4th year DO student, did not apply through the otseopathic match:

1. Quality of training: far and away the number one reason. No DO program could even touch the range of pathology, didactics, patient volume, specialists available, and resources compared to the allopathic university programs where I was offered interviews. This does not apply to every program in every specialty. Some of the DO EM and primary care programs are top-notch, and they are well-known. But the variability in the quality of the programs overall is concerning. There are some gems, but way to many questionable programs. Probably the safest bets are the dually accredited programs.

2. I hate OMT. I don't ever want to do it again. Enough said.

3. I want to be boarded by a mainstream, allopathic, board certification institution, not some no-name osteopathic derivative. And I don't want to have to pay $600 a year in AOA dues to maintain my osteopathic board certification.

4. Geography and selection: closest program to where I wanted to be was 300 miles away.

5. Prestige: yep, it's a factor. I'll admit it. I'd like to be interviewing for positions and have my residency be an asset to my CV, not a liability.

Then why'd you choose osteopathic to begin with? Were you misled into believing that OMM was a good and useful skill, and that osteopathic residencies were good and an "asset to my CV"? What happened in medical school to make you change your mind? Really, I'm just curious.

 

[homeboy]

Then why'd you choose osteopathic to begin with? Were you misled into believing that OMM was a good and useful skill, and that osteopathic residencies were good and an "asset to my CV"? What happened in medical school to make you change your mind? Really, I'm just curious.

Snidely inferring that there's something inherently wrong with critical analysis of one's professional training does nothing to address the shortcomings of the AOA.

 

[bth7]

Then why'd you choose osteopathic to begin with? Were you misled into believing that OMM was a good and useful skill, and that osteopathic residencies were good and an "asset to my CV"? What happened in medical school to make you change your mind? Really, I'm just curious.

I think this is THE most important question in this forum. What happens to osteopathic students between their freshman and senior years? What do they learn or what experience do they have they causes this shift?

 

[theraball]

Snidely inferring that there's something inherently wrong with critical analysis of one's professional training does nothing to address the shortcomings of the AOA.

The guy says he "hates" OMT and you dismiss me as being snide? I thought I was talking to the previous poster, not you.

I would still like to know how a person can be so dismissive of his osteopathic education after choosing osteopathic medical school in the first place. Was it really that bad??? 😕

I would offer this humble advice: live with your decision, make the most of it, or else admit you made a mistake going into osteopathy and don't just blame the AOA and the whole profession for your own misgivings and unhappiness.

OK, so I'm a clueless first year. But I still haven't heard a compelling reason for the merger of DO + MD. It's probably not a perfect system as it stands, but I really like the osteopathic-specific stuff personally and I am very glad to be going this route, with all respect to our MD colleagues. I chose this route and if along the way I find that things aren't as rosy as they seem, well, I'll work to help improve things. However I'm not going to go throwing the baby out with the bath water. DO and OMM will remain in my vocabulary.

 

[bth7]

OK, so I'm a clueless first year. But I still haven't heard a compelling reason for the merger of DO + MD. It's probably not a perfect system as it stands, but I really like the osteopathic-specific stuff personally and I am very glad to be going this route, with all respect to our MD colleagues. I chose this route and if along the way I find that things aren't as rosy as they seem, well, I'll work to help improve things. However I'm not going to go throwing the baby out with the bath water. DO and OMM will remain in my vocabulary.

That's awesome, I hope your attitude stays with you ALWAYS. All I can say is wait till the middle of your third year, beginning of your forth year. That seems to be about when the shift happens for a lot of people.

bth

 

[homeboy]

The guy says he "hates" OMT and you dismiss me as being snide? I thought I was talking to the previous poster, not you.

I would still like to know how a person can be so dismissive of his osteopathic education after choosing osteopathic medical school in the first place. Was it really that bad??? 😕

I would offer this humble advice: live with your decision, make the most of it, or else admit you made a mistake going into osteopathy and don't just blame the AOA and the whole profession for your own misgivings and unhappiness.

OK, so I'm a clueless first year. But I still haven't heard a compelling reason for the merger of DO + MD. It's probably not a perfect system as it stands, but I really like the osteopathic-specific stuff personally and I am very glad to be going this route, with all respect to our MD colleagues. I chose this route and if along the way I find that things aren't as rosy as they seem, well, I'll work to help improve things. However I'm not going to go throwing the baby out with the bath water. DO and OMM will remain in my vocabulary.

Thank you for the “humble advice,” mr. first year. I’ll tell you what: come back to me after finishing all four years and offer some advice based on your experience, not some idealistic notion of what osteopathic medicine is.

Living with your decision is one thing. Being able to call a spade a spade is another.

How ‘bout I offer YOU some advice: personal pride to have gone the “DO route” doesn’t automatically validate the presumptions you have about a profession you’re less then a year into. And criticizing authorities like the AOA doesn’t invalidate your decision, but it does show that people are able to think for themselves and make judgment calls based on experience, not what is spoon fed to them.

 

[RockfordWF]

why do DOs typically go for MD residencies as a preference? Any benefit if a DO goes for a MD vs DO residency? Does this also mean that say a DO wants to go into ortho he/she has 2 chances to get an ortho residency, one MD and one DO?

Half of my classes skipped the DO match and will only do the MD match.

I'll tell you why I did it for emergency medicine:

-There are no DO residencies in Texas, where I am from.
-All DO residencies are 4 years, most MD residencies are 3 years.
-Most MD residencies are at Level I trauma centers
-Most DO residencies are at community hospitals
-MD residencies have more academic connections and have more credibility
-You will have greater job opportunities, since you will be more highly recruited by the MD physician groups

 

[theraball]

Thank you for the “humble advice,” mr. first year. I’ll tell you what: come back to me after finishing all four years and offer some advice based on your experience, not some idealistic notion of what osteopathic medicine is.

OK, I will.

🙂

 

[J1515]

-Most DO residencies are at community hospitals

I suggest you look at a few in the northeast.

 

[bth7]

Half of my classes skipped the DO match and will only do the MD match.

I'll tell you why I did it for emergency medicine:

-There are no DO residencies in Texas, where I am from.
-All DO residencies are 4 years, most MD residencies are 3 years.
-Most MD residencies are at Level I trauma centers
-Most DO residencies are at community hospitals
-MD residencies have more academic connections and have more credibility
-You will have greater job opportunities, since you will be more highly recruited by the MD physician groups

👍
Note that he is referring to EM residencies. I'm sure that people's reasons for other specialties would be different but vary slightly. But in general, I think this is a good reflection of some of the more common reasons why people make the choice.

bth

 

[DrWBD]

To add my brief $0.02 to the original question, the reason is twofold:

1. In any given geographic area, the vast majority of osteopathic residencies are inferior to ACGME-accredited programs in that same location. This is an unfortunate reality of having an antiquated GME system based largely in community hospitals.
2. most osteopathic students are smart enough to see through the AOA propaganda machine and realize point #1.

 

[justletmeinplz]

Wow. Interesting thread.

From the looks of it, some people aren't thrilled with some aspects of their DO education. I've got a question for y'all. I was unable to get into a decent MD school despite having a pretty good academic record. 3.41 sci GPA and 32 MCAT. I have since chosen to go DO, knowing that I will have to just "grin and bear it" when it comes to OMM. I also anticipate having to study my *** off to do well on the USMLE, as I'm relatively certain I want to pursue an ACGME residency. I know several DOs and they are all fine physicians. I have no problems being a DO. I plan on using DO school as a means to eventually practice "traditional" medicine. (Apparently, as are many others.) Do you think this a mistake? Would those of you have recently finished or are about to finish DO school do it over again knowing what you do now?
Maybe I'm just misinterpreting some of the cynicism in this thread, but it's got me a little concerned. This is the type of question answered poorly in the pre-osteo section, so any responses from those "in the know" would be appreciated.

Maybe I should have started another thread.... Sorry OP.

 

[Tophcrock]

My experience, take it as you will.

I interviewed at two medical schools, my state allopathic school and KCOM. After suffering through an interview with a very "full of himself" third year for the allopathic school, I was more than happy to choose KCOM.

I interviewed four IM residencies, 3 allopathic and one osteopathic. I enjoyed all programs, only did an out rotation at the osteopathic institution and loved it...it was a good fit for me. I had letters and phone messages from 2 of the allopathic residencies saying without really saying that they wanted me to show up come July, but I chose the osteopathic residency. It is a medium sized hospital that serves a low socio-economic patient base and the didactics are intense. They also have a few fellowships, although I'm not planning on going that route right now. Good and bad residencies exist on both sides of the spectrum, I picked what fit me best. If I thought I was getting inferior training, I wouldn't go, plain and simple.

I believe there are three kinds of osteopathic students...1) those who are die hards, hard core devotional to the entire osteopathic philosophy 2) those who go and just consider themselves medical students, no school is better or worse (this is where I lie although I am extremely happy with my education in Kirksville, it has prepared me well) 3) those who wish they could change their eventual letters to MD, who just whine and moan about the people in charge and make excuses to justify their rants. The AOA has been like they are for awhile. For those who are unhappy, they should have researched their decision before they began year one.

 

[bravotwozero]

The AOA has been like they are for awhile. For those who are unhappy, they should have researched their decision before they began year one.

The fact that the AOA's policies have 'been like they are for a while' is not a valid justification of them, nor does it mean that people in the osteopathic medical profession shouldn't scrutinize them.

 

[JadinSleeper]

Then why'd you choose osteopathic to begin with? Were you misled into believing that OMM was a good and useful skill, and that osteopathic residencies were good and an "asset to my CV"? What happened in medical school to make you change your mind? Really, I'm just curious.

I applied only to osteopathic schools. To make a long story short, the AACOM method of computing GPA (which allows for retakes of classes) left me with a very high GPA. The AMCAS method gave me a very low GPA. (I was a non-trad who had a not-so-glorious first attempt at undergrad many years ago). My GPA would not have even got me an interview at an MD school, although my MCAT was 30 - good, but not spectacular.

I knew about OMM and I wasn't excited about it to begin with. What I didn't expect was for it to be pushed so hard and shoehorned into everything we learned. The zealousness of the OMM faculty and the 5th year fellows was repulsive to me. The OMM department existed as a separate entity outside of the other pre-clinical departments - that is to say, outside the bounds of the scientific method. There is definitely an element of "it works because we say it does" and any implication that a technique might be ineffective or a placebo would be met with an invitation to withdraw a become "an MD treating symptoms"

Now, the rest of my education was great. I was totally pleased with pharmacology, anatomy, etc etc. But the contrast between the basic science portions and the nebulous OMM classes and labs was just too stark to ignore. Medicine may be an art, but ultimately it is an art founded on science, not on dogma.

I used to get really irritated memorizing tender points and HVLA positioning when there was a huge anatomy, or pharm test coming. Nothing motivates your studying like wasting time memorizing non-EBM pseudo-science when you should be working on real material.

I'm proud to be a DO. As of this spring, I'll be an American trained physician, which has opened the doors to residencies I never thought I could get into. I'm very proud to represent my school. But I'll never do OMT professionally again. Being a DO is so much more than a bunch of manipulative techniques.

As far as the osteopathic residencies, all I can say is wait until you're a 3rd year. Gauge the opinions of the attending docs you work with. Visit the DO residencies and compare them to the MD residencies you get offered interviews to. I think you'll see what I mean.

 

[Tophcrock]

The fact that the AOA's policies have 'been like they are for a while' is not a valid justification of them, nor does it mean that people in the osteopathic medical profession shouldn't scrutinize them.

I completely agree, it is our right to do just that. However, scrutinizing a professional organization and coming up with real solutions is different from those who use the "AOA attitude" as a crutch to fuel their "wish they were MD" tirades. I too have quite a few difference of opinions when it comes to a certain number of AOA policies and beliefs, but that doesn't mean I am going to jump ship.

 

[homeboy]

I believe there are three kinds of osteopathic students...1) those who are die hards, hard core devotional to the entire osteopathic philosophy 2) those who go and just consider themselves medical students, no school is better or worse (this is where I lie although I am extremely happy with my education in Kirksville, it has prepared me well) 3) those who wish they could change their eventual letters to MD, who just whine and moan about the people in charge and make excuses to justify their rants. The AOA has been like they are for awhile. For those who are unhappy, they should have researched their decision before they began year one.

I think stereotyping mindsets of osteopathic students into 3 categories is a bit narrow minded. Sure there are people in your 1st, 2nd and 3rd categories, but there's plenty of people who are both perfectly happy with the route they've taken but don't hesitate to criticize where criticism is warranted.

You can't lump every critic into a category of "whiners and moaners"...that's a cop out to any legitimate complaints people have.

 

[Tophcrock]

I think stereotyping mindsets of osteopathic students into 3 categories is a bit narrow minded. Sure there are people in your 1st, 2nd and 3rd categories, but there's plenty of people who are both perfectly happy with the route they've taken but don't hesitate to criticize where criticism is warranted.

You can't lump every critic into a category of "whiners and moaners"...that's a cop out to any legitimate complaints people have.

In my opinion, whiners and moaners are separate from critics. Those with legitimate complaints and ideas can fit into any category. I guess you could find my categories narrow minded, I'm totally okay with that, but I find them rather broad in their spectrum.

 

[bth7]

Wow. Interesting thread.

From the looks of it, some people aren't thrilled with some aspects of their DO education. I've got a question for y'all. I was unable to get into a decent MD school despite having a pretty good academic record. 3.41 sci GPA and 32 MCAT. I have since chosen to go DO, knowing that I will have to just "grin and bear it" when it comes to OMM. I also anticipate having to study my *** off to do well on the USMLE, as I'm relatively certain I want to pursue an ACGME residency. I know several DOs and they are all fine physicians. I have no problems being a DO. I plan on using DO school as a means to eventually practice "traditional" medicine. (Apparently, as are many others.) Do you think this a mistake? Would those of you have recently finished or are about to finish DO school do it over again knowing what you do now?
Maybe I'm just misinterpreting some of the cynicism in this thread, but it's got me a little concerned. This is the type of question answered poorly in the pre-osteo section, so any responses from those "in the know" would be appreciated.

Maybe I should have started another thread.... Sorry OP.

Yes, I'd do it again. Of course.

All DO's practice the same kind of medicine as MD's.

There's problems in allopathic medicine too. You have to keep all this stuff in perspective. Seriously.

bth

 

[Moniker]

I interviewed at two medical schools, my state allopathic school and KCOM. After suffering through an interview with a very "full of himself" third year for the allopathic school, I was more than happy to choose KCOM.

you withdrew your application from 1 of the 2 schools you got interviews from based on ONE bad interviewer? wow. i don't recommend this for anyone else, for the record.

 

[ShyRem]

Moniker, part of the interview is for the school to represent itself to you. I withdrew from a school based solely on the interview as well when I was applying. It was painfully obvious from the interview that I would NOT be happy there. And, might I add, it was for similar reasons as Tophcrock.

Why people choose one school over another, or why they withdraw is a personal choice for personal reasons. I know several people who wouldn't have cared what the school itself was like, they wanted to be a certain place for other reasons and were willing to put up with anything to live there. It's a choice.

 

[Moniker]

Moniker, part of the interview is for the school to represent itself to you. I withdrew from a school based solely on the interview as well when I was applying. It was painfully obvious from the interview that I would NOT be happy there. And, might I add, it was for similar reasons as Tophcrock.

Why people choose one school over another, or why they withdraw is a personal choice for personal reasons. I know several people who wouldn't have cared what the school itself was like, they wanted to be a certain place for other reasons and were willing to put up with anything to live there. It's a choice.

agreed. your personal choice about whether a school feels right to you is paramount.

 

[Tophcrock]

agreed. your personal choice about whether a school feels right to you is paramount.

but it sounded like that one person (interviewer) was the only reason. i don't think it's that crazy to say it's a bad idea to withdraw from the only other school you got an interview at based on how you got along with one person (unless it was the dean or something). sure it's a personal decision, but pretty risky, unless you've already got an acceptance from the other one.

i can see your point. it's like don't put all your eggs in one basket. i already had acceptance from KCOM which definitely made the decision easier. however, if i weren't married at the time, it wouldn't have mattered if it was my only school i had an interview to, i probably would have worked and/or researched for a year and tried again...but that's how strongly that interview rubbed me the wrong way and i know that way of thinking is not for everyone.

 

[DrWBD]

My experience, take it as you will.

I interviewed at two medical schools, my state allopathic school and KCOM. After suffering through an interview with a very "full of himself" third year for the allopathic school, I was more than happy to choose KCOM.

Because there's no such thing as an osteopathic student full of himself 🙄

Hopefully you won't decide you want to do GI or Cards-as coming from an osteopathic IM program you'll have pretty much zero chance of getting an ACGME fellowship in those areas and you'll be competing for the same five spots as the rest of your osteopathic peers.

 

[RockfordWF]

Because there's no such thing as an osteopathic student full of himself 🙄

Hopefully you won't decide you want to do GI or Cards-as coming from an osteopathic IM program you'll have pretty much zero chance of getting an ACGME fellowship in those areas and you'll be competing for the same five spots as the rest of your osteopathic peers.

Nothing precludes him from doing an ACGME IM residency and then an ACGME fellowship....

 

[DrWBD]

I had letters and phone messages from 2 of the allopathic residencies saying without really saying that they wanted me to show up come July, but I chose the osteopathic residency.

Nothing precludes him from doing an ACGME IM residency and then an ACGME fellowship....

He's doing an AOA IM residency.

 

[RockfordWF]

He's doing an AOA IM residency.

I assumed from his title that he is a medical student. I didn't look at his post history, however.

 

[MaximusD]

Ok I will agree with you, although Max did submit twice, he did cop out a bit. In the end Max you are sissy.


Goodluck on the test, although I am going to beat your sorry ***, foo! 😆

I think that in the end the exam beat both our asses haha

 

[Tophcrock]

Because there's no such thing as an osteopathic student full of himself 🙄

Hopefully you won't decide you want to do GI or Cards-as coming from an osteopathic IM program you'll have pretty much zero chance of getting an ACGME fellowship in those areas and you'll be competing for the same five spots as the rest of your osteopathic peers.

Yeah, that factored into my decision as I would say I'm about 95% sure that I don't want to do a fellowship. I don't have anything against osteopathic fellowships, but like you alluded to, there just aren't that many.

 

[theKirk]

I am a 3rd year, soon to be fourth, and in talking to my classmates, it appears there will be a majority of folks not entering the DO match at all.

And while I can't speak for everyone, my main reason is certainly location.

My question is, is it possible to not enter the DO match, have a bad Allopath match, unsuccessful scramble, and then "post-scramble scramble" into one of the DO programs that didn't fill?

Being new to this process, I didn't know if the timeline of doing that would even jive, or if that was an illegal move, or what.

Anyone?

 

[ShyRem]

This year's scramble had DO spots fill AWFULLY quick after the ACGME date of "you have NOT matched". I believe there were several EM DO spots that were gone within the first hour or so after the "you have NOT matched" allo message. So I would say an attempt to scramble to a DO spot after an unsuccessful scramble for an ACGME spot would be less than desirable. But doable if you don't mind whatever's left. IM, FP, TR....

 

[theKirk]

I am a 3rd year, soon to be fourth, and in talking to my classmates, it appears there will be a majority of folks not entering the DO match at all.

And while I can't speak for everyone, my main reason is certainly location.

My question is, is it possible to not enter the DO match, have a bad Allopath match, unsuccessful scramble, and then "post-scramble scramble" into one of the DO programs that didn't fill?

Being new to this process, I didn't know if the timeline of doing that would even jive, or if that was an illegal move, or what.

Anyone?

Oh, I should also add that I am interested in EM and the fact that allopath programs i am interested in are 3 year and all the DO programs are 4 year weighs heavy on my decision too.

 

[Old_Mil]

What I didn't expect was for it [OMM] to be pushed so hard and shoehorned into everything we learned. The zealousness of the OMM faculty and the 5th year fellows was repulsive to me. The OMM department existed as a separate entity outside of the other pre-clinical departments - that is to say, outside the bounds of the scientific method. There is definitely an element of "it works because we say it does" and any implication that a technique might be ineffective or a placebo would be met with an invitation to withdraw a become "an MD treating symptoms"

Now, the rest of my education was great. I was totally pleased with pharmacology, anatomy, etc etc. But the contrast between the basic science portions and the nebulous OMM classes and labs was just too stark to ignore. Medicine may be an art, but ultimately it is an art founded on science, not on dogma.

I used to get really irritated memorizing tender points and HVLA positioning when there was a huge anatomy, or pharm test coming. Nothing motivates your studying like wasting time memorizing non-EBM pseudo-science when you should be working on real material.
But I'll never do OMT professionally again. Being a DO is so much more than a bunch of manipulative techniques.

👍

 

[Gpan]

I have a question. If one tries to match into an allo residency program, but is unsuccessfully so, one is likely to miss the good osteo programs by that time. My question is what happens when one doesn't match in any program at all. Can that person recover in the next year match? Does that look bad on this person's resume? In short, does one have to match into a program after one's 4th year of med school? What kind of option can one have?

 

[Gpan]

👎laugh: