Why do people go to the carribean when they can do D.O?

[JaggerPlate]

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I'm not negative towards DOs. I just dislike this double-standard of being different yet being the same simultaneously. DO schools themselves talk about their different approaches. I think you're projecting generic negativity onto me, which is unfair. I mentioned before osteopathic medicine is a very good path, just not for me. What's wrong with that? Sure, getting asked what an osteopath is is a very superficial reason not to want to be a DO, but why does my reasoning matter? If I said I didn't want to go to UVA's med school because they are my school rival no one would give a crap, but I say I don't want to go to a DO school for just as silly of a reason and all-of-a-sudden I'm insecure?

I personally don't think DO is inferior or that there should be a negative stigma around it. I think it's great and I'm glad that DO schools exist because we need physicians. However, I think it's false to say there's no differences when the schools themselves promote those differences and every DO student I've ever talked to mentions them. What else do I have to go by but what the schools project and others tell me? I'm not attending both an osteopathic and an allopathic school, only an allopathic one so I have no way to personally experience any differences.

And DO schools do have lower stats. Last I checked, no DO school had an average MCAT over 30 and the average GPA hovers around a 3.3. I'm not trying to imply that that makes them inferior, just stating facts. Either these schools are looking for something different in their students or they're not..you tell me which is the case.
[/LIST]
http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_whatis

Sounds like they're toting something different to me.

1. I apologize if it seems like I'm projecting anger towards you ... it's not my intent.

2. I've always been a large component of the idea that it is okay to not go or apply to a DO school simply because you want the MD. Nothing wrong with that. You did the work, you're paying the money, if you want it ... get it. That was never my mentality, but I understand it ... and I'd never judge someone for it.

3. The stat thing is seriously something I don't want to get into. On average, DO stats are lower ... I personally think it's complicated, and the average is misleading, and I've stated it all out before - simply don't have the energy to do it again. But I'm not going to be one of those people who denies that, on average, DO stats are lower than MD stats ... I just don't agree that it's so cut and dry. Oh and, just FYI, schools like Western and UMDNJ have MCAT scores in the 28+ to 29 range that are creeping up each year.

4. Again, it's not surprising that the AOA/osteopathic.org is promoting it's "special difference." As myself and a few others stated ... they are the ones to benefit from it. The reason this idea is perpetuated is because, like I said, it's what allows the AOA to stay in business ... build new schools, profit, expand, etc. I truly don't know what students you've been speaking with ... but I find very, very few who stick with the differences mantra, and I agree the -separate, but equal when we want it ... but different when we also want it - mantra is annoying.

Frankly, at this point, I do have an interest in OMM, and I really can fathom the guy/girl who applies only to DO schools, becomes an OMM fellow, does a NMM/OMM residency, promoting that message or really treating patients differently ... but this is .01% of DOs. 99.9% of them practice identical to MDs, a lot even trained in ACGME programs -do you really think if there was such a core difference, DOs would be able to complete ACGME residencies and become BC in AMBS fields -, and most would probably roll their eyes if you asked them how they practice holistic, whole-patient, medicine as (for example) a BC radiologist who did an ACGME residency.

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

VTbuc, this point has been discussed with the arguments you're offering made and subsequently negated so many times. Why not do some reading on here before posting so that you can avoid repetition of debunked arguments?

We get it. You think having DO after your name is below you. But see, until you have something new to offer, nobody cares what you think.

 

[Bacchus]

You are aware that VT provides resources to VCOM, right? An up-and-coming osteopathic school on the research area of the campus.

 

[J1515]

Bull. Every freakin' DO or Pre-DO person I talk to tells me how osteopaths "view the patient as a whole" and "are less focused on numbers", etc. etc. There's differences, dude.

Excuse me? I'm 5 years ahead of you. You haven't set foot in medical school yet, be it allopathic or osteopathic. DOs do not treat patients as "a whole" any more than MDs do and as a future MD you should be offended if you hear someone say that. This is nonsense that the AOA feeds people to try to make the degree look attractive. The only reason why some pre-DOs talk about "DO schools less focused on numbers" is because they don't want to admit that most of them aren't as academically qualified as the students who got accepted to an MD school, be it grades or MCAT. Some of my classmates were brilliant and could've gone to MD schools as well. The majority openly admitted they couldn't break that 27 mark on the MCAT. Any DO student or pre-DO who tells you that holistic or "treat the whole person" nonsense is full of crap and has no clue what they are talking about. I have gone through 4 years of DO school and I've completed almost a year of residency. There is zero difference between the DO and MD curriculum (+OMM), there is zero difference between how they practice, and there is definitely zero difference in philosophy, despite what the AOA tries to tell people.

If there were no differences in curriculum or philosophy, there would be no reason for Osteopathic schools--they would all be Allopathic schools.

You can't just automatically convert every osteopathic medical school to allopathic with a snap of the fingers and expect a giant organization like the AOA to sit back and watch their jobs lost. That's not how the real world works.

I'll repeat: there was a difference 100 years ago when DOs broke away from mainstream medicine which consisted of treating the common cold or flu with Mercury, heavy metals, and other toxins. Medical technology and pharmaceuticals has greatly improved, and DOs jumped back on board about 50 years ago in order to have full and equal practice rights as MDs. The fields have merged. Of course the governing body of DOs (the AOA) wants people to believe we're distinct from MDs because otherwise they'd be out of a job! But those higher-ups in the AOA are the only ones who quote that crap about the "DO difference." Ask any graduate of a DO school if there is a difference. They will tell you no. Ask any pre-med any question about medical school and 99% of it will be wrong.

In fact, you're insulting the entire DO track by saying they're the same. The admission standards are quite lower, so be saying they're the same it's implying that DO is simply a lower-tiered allopathic school, right?

That's exactly what it has become. People who are ahead of you in this process have understood this now for a number of years. In fact plenty of current DO students openly admit they couldn't get into an MD school. This is one of the on going battles with recent graduates and the AOA - raising admission standards for DO schools. They have gotten considerably better over the past few years but is still lower than their allopathic counterparts.

If there's no difference between DO and MD, why the heck are people so passionate about going DO rather than MD?

Um, their not. I'm not sure what pre-meds you've spoken to. The majority of DO students used it as a backup when they couldn't get into MD schools and many freely admit this. Either you've been living under a rock for the past 4 years or you are really uninformed.

If DO and MD are the same, why did you go DO instead of MD?

Location, curriculum, and clinical affiliations for 3rd and 4th year. I got accepted to both MD and DO schools. I wanted to be in a specific geographic location and I liked my DO school's clinical affiliations/opportunities better than the MD schools I got accepted to. I had shadowed both MDs and DOs and knew there was zero difference in practice or philosophy. Some of my classmates chose DO for similar reasons. Some wanted to learn OMM. A good bunch didn't have the grades/MCAT to get into an MD school.

If I get asked twice if my lifetime, "what's an Osteopath?"...that right there is twice too many. I don't want that. Good for you if you do.

Again, your youth and naivety is shining through. First of all, you are acting quite insecure and are going to be in for a rude awakening when you get out into the real world. Second, I got news for you, you WILL be discriminated against by people no matter what. You might look mean, your hair might be too long/short, a patient might not like your religion or skin color, nationality, they might not like the way you talk, you might look too young or too old, tattoos, piercings, gelled hair, overweight, too tall (and scary). I've seen patients refuse to see doctors for the reasons above as well as tons of other ridiculous reasons. I can promise you you'll have plenty of patients who will refuse to see you over the years. The last thing you should be worried about is what somebody thinks of your school or degree. And just incase nobody told you, you will be sued at least once.

 

[VTBuc]

VTbuc, this point has been discussed with the arguments you're offering made and subsequently negated so many times. Why not do some reading on here before posting so that you can avoid repetition of debunked arguments?

We get it. You think having DO after your name is below you. But see, until you have something new to offer, nobody cares what you think.

I wasn't bashing DO. I was merely answered the threat topic. Isn't that what I was supposed to do? If I came across as having a sense of entitlement or having some kind of superiority complex, I apologize as that was not my intention. I was just stating that I can understand why some people would go Carribean over DO. Personally, I wouldn't...but I can understand why others would and that was what I was trying to get that across.

Having DO isn't below me. It's just not me. The same way PhD, J.D., or any other initials aren't for me. It doesn't mean that I think I'm better than them...it just means it's not for me.

 

[VTBuc]

You are aware that VT provides resources to VCOM, right? An up-and-coming osteopathic school on the research area of the campus.

Not sure what this has to do with anything I've said. VCOM students are great and I fully support their decision to attend there. I didn't apply because I didn't want to go there.

 

[VTBuc]

Excuse me? I'm 5 years ahead of you. You haven't set foot in medical school yet, be it allopathic or osteopathic. DOs do not treat patients as "a whole" any more than MDs do. This is nonsense that the AOA feeds people to try to make the degree look impressive. The only reason why some pre-DOs talk about "DO schools less focused on numbers" is because they don't want to admit that most of them aren't as academically qualified as the students who got accepted to an MD school, be it grades or MCAT. Any DO student or pre-DO who tells you that nonsense is full of crap and has no clue what they are talking about (much like you don't on this thread). I have gone through 4 years of DO school and I'm almost done with a year of residency. There is zero difference between the DO and MD curriculum (+OMM), there is zero difference between how they practice, and there is definitely zero difference in philosophy.

Sorry, but those people who are "full of crap" are all I've had to go by. I don't have the desire to go on SDN and read that deeply about a profession I'm not interested in. I do have an honest question, though. If the curriculum is identical, why do more DO's go into primary care?

Your youth and naivety are shining through. You can't just automatically convert every osteopathic medical school to allopathic with a snap of the fingers and expect a giant organization like the AOA to sit back and watch their jobs lost. That's not how the real world works.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking. Why would a brand new school chose to be osteopathic when there's no real difference? I'd imagine the same amount of resources are required to open both an MD and a DO school.

Since you appear to need help with reading comprehension, I'll repeat: there was a difference 100 years ago when DOs broke away from mainstream medicine which consisted of treating the common cold or flu with Mercury, heavy metals, and other toxins. Medical technology and pharmaceuticals has greatly improved, and DOs jumped back on board about 50 years ago. The fields have merged. Ask any graduate of a DO school if there is a difference. They will tell you no. Ask any pre-med any question about medical school and 99% of it will be wrong.

Sounds good to me.

That's exactly what it has become. People who are ahead of you in this process have understood this now for a number of years. In fact plenty of current DO students openly admit they couldn't get into an MD school. This is one of the on going battles with recent graduates and the AOA - raising admission standards for DO schools. They have gotten considerably better over the past few years but is still lower than their allopathic counterparts.

You are quite literally the first DO I have ever heard say this. Usually on SDN if someone says this all hell breaks loose.

Um, their not. I'm not sure what pre-meds you've spoken to. The majority of DO students used it as a backup when they couldn't get into MD schools and many freely admit this. Either you've been living under a rock for the past 4 years or you are really uninformed.

Location, curriculum, and clinical affiliations for 3rd and 4th year. I got accepted to both MD and DO schools. I wanted to be in a specific geographic location and I liked my DO school's clinical affiliations/opportunities better than the MD schools I got accepted to. I had shadowed both MDs and DOs and knew there was zero difference in practice or philosophy.

Fair enough. Again, I wasn't trying to argue or "prove you wrong"...it was an honest question.

Again, your youth and naivety is shining through. First of all, you are acting quite insecure and are going to be in for a rude awakening when you get out into the real world. Why did you want to be a doctor again? Second, I got news for you, you WILL be discriminated against by people no matter what. You might look mean, your hair might be too long/short, a patient might not like your religion or skin color, nationality, they might not like the way you talk, you might look too young or too old, tattoos, piercings, gelled hair, overweight, too tall (and scary). I've seen patients refuse to see doctors for the reasons above as well as tons of other ridiculous reasons. I can promise you you'll have plenty of patients who will refuse to see you over the years. The last thing you should be worried about is what somebody thinks of your school or degree. And just incase nobody told you, you will be sued at least once.

It doesn't have anything to do with discrimination. It just has to do with the personal goals I set in my own life. Again, my original post wasn't an attempt to bash osteopathic medicine, it was merely answered the thread question of why Carribean instead of DO? It's a lame and pretty childish reason, I'll admit. But it played a factor in my decision. Does that make me lame and pretty childish? Probably, but that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that I get to achieve what I want to achieve and kudos to you and everyone else who are doing the same.

 

[Cleavername]

I would likely rather travel to another country to get an MD than a DO. It's just my personal preference. Doesn't mean I'm ignorant or anything.



Do you have proof that it's much costlier to get an MD in the Caribbean than a DO in the US?

i am pretty sure it is much harder for a person to get a residency in the united states if they grduated from medical school in another country, even if it did follow the model of the US schools.

 

[VTBuc]

I'm really sad that arrogant, judgmental people are allowed to become doctors. My goal in becoming a physician is to heal and help people. I want to be a doctor who listens to my patients. How can we care for our patients if we think we are better than them, or better than other doctors for that matter? In becoming physicians we should strive to strengthen each other and our patients.

I'm a first year at an osteopathic medical school. I applied to both allopathic and osteopathic institutions and withdrew my applications from allopathic schools when I found out about the philosophy behind the D.O. initials. I was a strong applicant, but decided I wanted to be in school with like minded individuals. My fellow classmates are incredibly supportive of each other and will make amazing doctors...and it is not because they had outstanding MCAT scores (though many of them did). They care about people and want to practice medicine for all of the right reasons. We have MD faculty, in addition to our DOs. I respect both, and respect any doctor who can humble himself in a way that allows him to care for patients' mind, body and spirit.

Osteopathic medicine is not just about OMM...it is a philosophy. This philosophy is not unlike anything many MDs practice, but it is our approach to our patients that sets us apart. The body is a unit...with structure and function being entirely interrelated. DOs study the same medicine, but approach it differently...and approach patients differently.

I have great respect for MDs, and believe that any MD can adopt this same philosophy and employ it in their practice without attending a DO school. But for all of you applicants out there...DO school is about being with like minded individuals and approaching medicine from a particular philosophy with the patient at the center of it all. Regardless of what schooling you choose...the patient should always remain at the center, or maybe medicine isn't the field for you.

Thought I should quote this.

 

[J1515]

Sorry, but those people who are "full of crap" are all I've had to go by. I don't have the desire to go on SDN and read that deeply about a profession I'm not interested in. I do have an honest question, though. If the curriculum is identical, why do more DO's go into primary care?

No problem, and I apoligize if I came off as harsh. Some enter DO school interested in primary care (peds, IM, FP, OB/GYN). Some aren't as academically oriented to score as high on standardized exams (see low MCAT --> low COMLEX/USMLE scores --> less competitive specialty). Many go into IM (primary care) wanting to subspecialize in cardiology, pulmonology, allergy/immunology, heme/onc, nephro, endo, etc... Some purposely attend schools in places like Kirksville, MI because they like the idea of opening their own family practice in the boondocks where as an FP they can deliver babies, do colonoscopies, laryngoscopies, endoscopies, and other procedures. Others go to PCOM or NYCOM because they want to be near big city hospitals and perhaps specialize. These are generalizations I'm making and everyone has their own reasons.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking. Why would a brand new school chose to be osteopathic when there's no real difference? I'd imagine the same amount of resources are required to open both an MD and a DO school.

Unfortunately this isn't true. I can't get into the whole accreditation process for MD and DO schools nor am I an expert on the subject, but they are opened through different accrediting bodies. MD schools use the LCME and DO schools use COCA. If someone wants to open one of these schools, they need to go through one or the other accrediting body depending on it they want it to be a DO or MD school. They each have similar standards (with some minor differences - good and bad, mostly bad). For example, I remember reading somewhere that DO schools require a significantly smaller start up price, but I may be wrong so don't quote me on that.

You are quite literally the first DO I have ever heard say this. Usually on SDN if someone says this all hell breaks loose.

It's unfortunate that people can't speak the truth and be secure in their position. I'm just stating the blunt truth. I wish DO schools would elevate their academic standards a tad. I think we'd see a dramatic increase in the USMLE pass rates for DOs and a lot less of the "I'm a bad test taker" or "It's just one test, it doesn't mean I'll be a bad doctor" excuses. Instead of DO students getting defensive, they should kick@$$ on the USMLE or COMLEX and prove people wrong.

It doesn't have anything to do with discrimination. It just has to do with the personal goals I set in my own life. Again, my original post wasn't an attempt to bash osteopathic medicine, it was merely answered the thread question of why Carribean instead of DO? It's a lame and pretty childish reason, I'll admit. But it played a factor in my decision. Does that make me lame and pretty childish? Probably, but that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that I get to achieve what I want to achieve and kudos to you and everyone else who are doing the same.

Your personal goals are just that - personal. Nobody should argue with you if you are doing what you want to do. What I think some people took exception to were a few misconceptions you posted about the field. It's not a matter of being offended...it's a matter of trying to stop some of the common myths that get spread about DOs by pre-meds on SDN. One person says it on SDN, 10 other pre-meds read it and go and tell 20 of their friends as if it's fact, and the cycle goes on and on.

 

[J1515]

Thought I should quote this.

Trust me. That poster is a first year student. By the time he reaches residency in 3 more years he will realize he was lured into osteopathic medicine by a load of crap. There is no difference in practice.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I was just stating that I can understand why some people would go Carribean over DO.

Look at residency matching numbers ... it gets harder to understand.

 

[elgin]

s

 

[Old Grunt]

There seems to be some trials out there that tested OMT and otitis media. I can't find results to any of them. There are also records of grants distributed for that purpose.

Re: the flu

I found this letter to the JAOA that talks about the feasability of study today and outcomes from the past: http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/ful...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

All in all, I agree with you. It has its uses; but there are also some claims out there that are almost asinine.

An interesting concept on the 1918 flu is that the event proceeded anti-virals and the traditional treatment consisted of using ASA and cough syrups while the DOs used OMT alone. I am sure we are all aware of the paradoxical counter-effect of suppressing a fever in fighting off infection. Therefore, I am curious if the difference in numbers are due to OMT or suppressing fever?

It's an interesting question. Like I said, I would think that replicating this scenario today to see how OMT fares against standard anti-virals.

 

[basupran]

I originally applied to 15 US MD programs and 1 Caribbean MD program. I was waitlisted at an LCME (MD) school in the US and didn't get off. I decided to go to the Caribbean and subsequently transferred back to the US.

I chose a Caribbean MD and did not apply for a DO position because I didn't want to have to explain what a DO was for the rest of my life. It was a personal decision, not an issue of one being better. In the end, medical education is what you make of it.

 

[Ischemic]

This is why you don't apply or at the very least make island schools your very last option.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/medicine/article1061189.ece

I know the article seems very biased and uses extreme examples but it just shows the potential pitfalls that you're going to have to overcome if you go to island schools. I mean this is Ross, one of the three most established carib schools with connections here in the US. I shudder to think what the other 40-50 random carib schools do to their kids.

 

[Bacchus]

An interesting concept on the 1918 flu is that the event proceeded anti-virals and the traditional treatment consisted of using ASA and cough syrups while the DOs used OMT alone. I am sure we are all aware of the paradoxical counter-effect of suppressing a fever in fighting off infection. Therefore, I am curious if the difference in numbers are due to OMT or suppressing fever?

It's an interesting question. Like I said, I would think that replicating this scenario today to see how OMT fares against standard anti-virals.

This might be ignorance, but wouldn't it be somewhat difficult since the use of AVs needs to begin very close to the point of infection which is often hard to determine?

If the OMT could be attributed to the gains in health after infection, its been shown by animal experiments there are effective lymph techniques.

 

[VTBuc]

This is why you don't apply or at the very least make island schools your very last option.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/medicine/article1061189.ece

I know the article seems very biased and uses extreme examples but it just shows the potential pitfalls that you're going to have to overcome if you go to island schools. I mean this is Ross, one of the three most established carib schools with connections here in the US. I shudder to think what the other 40-50 random carib schools do to their kids.

In all fairness(and jest 😛), the guy is wearing a WVU hat...

 

[JaggerPlate]

I originally applied to 15 US MD programs and 1 Caribbean MD program. I was waitlisted at an LCME (MD) school in the US and didn't get off. I decided to go to the Caribbean and subsequently transferred back to the US.

I chose a Caribbean MD and did not apply for a DO position because I didn't want to have to explain what a DO was for the rest of my life. It was a personal decision, not an issue of one being better. In the end, medical education is what you make of it.

To be fair ... I don't think the transfer from Caribbean to US is a fairly common story. Was it an easy process for you? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[FrazzleSnazzle]

In all fairness(and jest 😛), the guy is wearing a WVU hat...

Judging by your username and your other thread about going to a brand new med school, I assume you're a Hokie?

 

[willen101383]

I'm attending an American MD School this fall. 🙄

Well I apologize for claiming you are going to a carribbean school. But at any rate I see you are going to a us MD school that hasnt even graduated a class yet. It shows the lengths certain people will go to in order to get that coveted MD.....and talk down on DO schools. I will never get it.....going to a MD school that has been around for 0 years...vs going to a DO school such as mine, or Jaggers...that have been around for well over 100 years, are respected institutions, and have thousands and thousands of alumni. But to each his/her own.

Good luck with your studies this coming year and be kind to your future colleagues...be they DO or MD

 

[JaggerPlate]

Well I apologize for claiming you are going to a carribbean school. But at any rate I see you are going to a us MD school that hasnt even graduated a class yet. It shows the lengths certain people will go to in order to get that coveted MD.....and talk down on DO schools. I will never get it.....going to a MD school that has been around for 0 years...vs going to a DO school such as mine, or Jaggers...that have been around for well over 100 years, are respected institutions, and have thousands and thousands of alumni. But to each his/her own.

Good luck with your studies this coming year and be kind to your future colleagues...be they DO or MD

118!!! Woot, woot!!

 

[Bacchus]

Well I apologize for claiming you are going to a carribbean school. But at any rate I see you are going to a us MD school that hasnt even graduated a class yet. It shows the lengths certain people will go to in order to get that coveted MD.....and talk down on DO schools. I will never get it.....going to a MD school that has been around for 0 years...vs going to a DO school such as mine, or Jaggers...that have been around for well over 100 years, are respected institutions, and have thousands and thousands of alumni. But to each his/her own.

Good luck with your studies this coming year and be kind to your future colleagues...be they DO or MD

I don't like his tone, but his school will do just fine, if not better than other new schools.

 

[VTBuc]

Well I apologize for claiming you are going to a carribbean school. But at any rate I see you are going to a us MD school that hasnt even graduated a class yet. It shows the lengths certain people will go to in order to get that coveted MD.....and talk down on DO schools. I will never get it.....going to a MD school that has been around for 0 years...vs going to a DO school such as mine, or Jaggers...that have been around for well over 100 years, are respected institutions, and have thousands and thousands of alumni. But to each his/her own.

Good luck with your studies this coming year and be kind to your future colleagues...be they DO or MD

I don't understand your point here. I never made any claims that DO was inferior or anything like that. If I hit a sore spot by saying I didn't want to be a DO then my bad, I guess? I don't think I ever "talked down on DO schools"...simply said it wasn't for me. In fact, I believe multiple times in this thread I've agreed that the quality of education is excellent at osteopathic schools. Not sure where your perceptions are based.

 

[VTBuc]

Judging by your username and your other thread about going to a brand new med school, I assume you're a Hokie?

Good guess. 🙂

 

[ahowardmd]

Come on guys, nobody here doesn't like D.O. because of OMM. They don't wanna go D.O. because the admissions statistics are lower and they don't want anybody thinking they got a bad GPA or MCAT.

If D.O. schools only accepted applications from people with a GPA of 3.8 or above and an MCAT of 37 or above, then PRE-MEDS would stop thinking D.O. schools were a terrible idea. In fact, I suspect alot of people would all of a sudden want to go to D.O. schools if that were to happen so when they told another pre-med what school they went to they'd sit there, smug, in knowing that the other pre-med now knows how smart and qualified he/she was.

And of course, since D.O. schools would only take "smart, good" people who were obviously heading for great things even before they started going to the school, they'd continue heading for great things while in school, and do great things after school. They'd get into really competitive specialties at brand name institutions. And PRESTO! D.O. schools are now considered the place to go! Even though the damn schools haven't changed a bit...only their students have.

Face...ya'll don't dislike D.O. because of the school...you dislike it because of the students. (And no I don't think their students suck. I think they just scored a little less great is all)

ok...now at least two or three of you can tell me how wrong and ignorant i am. But don't expect to get a response out of me.

Have you read the thread you're commenting on? The last page or two or posts, if not the whole thread, agrees with you. DO schools are just low tier MD schools.

 

[Morsetlis]

If D.O. schools only accepted applications from people with a GPA of 3.8 or above and an MCAT of 37 or above

So you want all DO schools to be like WUSTL?

 

[Old Grunt]

This might be ignorance, but wouldn't it be somewhat difficult since the use of AVs needs to begin very close to the point of infection which is often hard to determine?

If the OMT could be attributed to the gains in health after infection, its been shown by animal experiments there are effective lymph techniques.

I don't think it would be that hard. You could gather your sample size by positive rapid flu tests who have been symptomatic for less then 48 hours (the cut-off for tamiflu efficacy) and then break them up into two groups, a control on tamiflu and the usual treatments and the experimental group on OMT then you could monitor how long they were symptomatic. Hypothesis would be that OMT beats control. Null hypothesis would be that it doesn't. You obviously couldn't blind the experiment and have an RCT, but I would think It would be an easy clinical trial.

 

[willen101383]

VT the post where you said "oh well I didnt grow up wanting to be a DO I wanted to be an MD," or whatever rubbed me the wrong way. You know what? I grew up wanting to be a PHYSICIAN....

Look, perhaps I jumped on you and your comment, and took it the wrong way. I apologize for that. No offense intended at all but you are going to a brand new school...and that comment implies that you think you are lightyears apart from anyone who goes to a DO school. Ive said this before and I will say it again. Although DO schools arent ranked some schools are much better than others. Do I think Rocky Vista is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Absolutely not. But Do I consider schools like ATSU, PCOM, NYCOM, KCOM, CCOM, and the other highly established schools on par with most MD programs in the US.....without a doubt. Hell, like others I PICKED my DO school over a very established MD program because I loved PCOM when I visited, I wanted to stay in Philly, and it just felt like home to me compared to the MD program.

The attitude on this forum regarding DOs and DO schools really sucks. Yeah people are competitive....I am too...but I am mature enough to be competitive without talking $hit about other individual's schools, or choices, or grades...or whatever. People on here are going to be doctors. We are going to take an oath to heal our patients. That should be a collaborative effort across the board, MD, DO, Carribbean MD. The journey may be slightly different, but the end profession is going to be the same.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I don't think it would be that hard. You could gather your sample size by positive rapid flu tests who have been symptomatic for less then 48 hours (the cut-off for tamiflu efficacy) and then break them up into two groups, a control on tamiflu and the usual treatments and the experimental group on OMT then you could monitor how long they were symptomatic. Hypothesis would be that OMT beats control. Null hypothesis would be that it doesn't. You obviously couldn't blind the experiment and have an RCT, but I would think It would be an easy clinical trial.

Dude, you're half way there ... finish the experiment for us! Thanks.

-Osteopathic Medicine

 

[JaggerPlate]

VT the post where you said "oh well I didnt grow up wanting to be a DO I wanted to be an MD," or whatever rubbed me the wrong way. You know what? I grew up wanting to be a PHYSICIAN....

Look, perhaps I jumped on you and your comment, and took it the wrong way. I apologize for that. No offense intended at all but you are going to a brand new school...and that comment implies that you think you are lightyears apart from anyone who goes to a DO school. Ive said this before and I will say it again. Although DO schools arent ranked some schools are much better than others. Do I think Rocky Vista is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Absolutely not. But Do I consider schools like ATSU, PCOM, NYCOM, KCOM, CCOM, and the other highly established schools on par with most MD programs in the US.....without a doubt. Hell, like others I PICKED my DO school over a very established MD program because I loved PCOM when I visited, I wanted to stay in Philly, and it just felt like home to me compared to the MD program.

The attitude on this forum regarding DOs and DO schools really sucks. Yeah people are competitive....I am too...but I am mature enough to be competitive without talking $hit about other individual's schools, or choices, or grades...or whatever. People on here are going to be doctors. We are going to take an oath to heal our patients. That should be a collaborative effort across the board, MD, DO, Carribbean MD. The journey may be slightly different, but the end profession is going to be the same.

Agree with the bold part. I don't think I ever once said 'I want to be an MD' when I was a kid. Lol.

However, I think VT just made a random, non-offensive comment in a high-octane thread and was pounced on. He essentially said "I want to go MD, just because I want the MD - DO schools are legit, don't hold it against anyone." I THINK. That's kind of what I gathered altogether, and I have no problem with that assessment.

 

[Old Grunt]

Dude, you're half way there ... finish the experiment for us! Thanks.

-Osteopathic Medicine

LOL.

A.) I hate research.

B.) The burden of proof, my friend, the burden of proof.

Sincerely,

- A mediocre allopathic medical student

 

[willen101383]

Agree with the bold part. I don't think I ever once said 'I want to be an MD' when I was a kid. Lol.

However, I think VT just made a random, non-offensive comment in a high-octane thread and was pounced on. He essentially said "I want to go MD, just because I want the MD - DO schools are legit, don't hold it against anyone." I THINK. That's kind of what I gathered altogether, and I have no problem with that assessment.

I am sure you are right. Just like you...I am sick of hearing the typical DO bashing posts on SDN and depending on my mood, I may respond harshly.

 

[JaggerPlate]

LOL.

A.) I hate research.

Laugh. +1

 

[JaggerPlate]

I am sure you are right. Just like you...I am sick of hearing the typical DO bashing posts on SDN and depending on my mood, I may respond harshly.

Yeah ... I think I've become immune. I'll correct some of the laughable comments, but I can't bring myself to care about the opinion of pre-meds most of the time.

 

[willen101383]

Yeah ... I think I've become immune. I'll correct some of the laughable comments, but I can't bring myself to care about the opinion of pre-meds most of the time.

Ive been trying really hard...but yeah depending on how my workday is going I may shoot a snippy post back at someone's arrogant post. Oh well.....back to watchin tv 🙂

 

[VTBuc]

VT the post where you said "oh well I didnt grow up wanting to be a DO I wanted to be an MD," or whatever rubbed me the wrong way. You know what? I grew up wanting to be a PHYSICIAN....

Look, perhaps I jumped on you and your comment, and took it the wrong way. I apologize for that. No offense intended at all but you are going to a brand new school...and that comment implies that you think you are lightyears apart from anyone who goes to a DO school. Ive said this before and I will say it again. Although DO schools arent ranked some schools are much better than others. Do I think Rocky Vista is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Absolutely not. But Do I consider schools like ATSU, PCOM, NYCOM, KCOM, CCOM, and the other highly established schools on par with most MD programs in the US.....without a doubt. Hell, like others I PICKED my DO school over a very established MD program because I loved PCOM when I visited, I wanted to stay in Philly, and it just felt like home to me compared to the MD program.

The attitude on this forum regarding DOs and DO schools really sucks. Yeah people are competitive....I am too...but I am mature enough to be competitive without talking $hit about other individual's schools, or choices, or grades...or whatever. People on here are going to be doctors. We are going to take an oath to heal our patients. That should be a collaborative effort across the board, MD, DO, Carribbean MD. The journey may be slightly different, but the end profession is going to be the same.

My comment doesn't imply anything. Read it for what it says because that's all I meant to portray. I want an MD, that's it. That's all I said. I didn't say anything about DO being inferior and I think it's complete crap that you will say something like "I am mature enough to be competitive without talking crap about other individual's schools" yet you feel it's okay to call me out for going to a brand new school like it's a negative thing. Ditch the double standard, bud.

Well I apologize for claiming you are going to a carribbean school. But at any rate I see you are going to a us MD school that hasnt even graduated a class yet. It shows the lengths certain people will go to in order to get that coveted MD.....and talk down on DO schools. I will never get it.....going to a MD school that has been around for 0 years...vs going to a DO school such as mine, or Jaggers...that have been around for well over 100 years, are respected institutions, and have thousands and thousands of alumni. But to each his/her own.

Good luck with your studies this coming year and be kind to your future colleagues...be they DO or MD

^^Hypocrisy at its finest.

It's not my job to sit here and be apologetic for DOs. It doesn't need defending so excuse me for not sugar-coating my reasoning for not applying DO. I wanted an MD. I never implied that DOs aren't as good or don't make good physicians and if that is what you got from my post it means that maybe you need to start looking at people as individuals(as your school montra probably says) and stop lumping them into categories and taking your frustration on anyone who doesn't beat the DO drum.

I don't think I'm light years ahead of anyone...so stop saying that crap. I'm a freakin' senior in college who hasn't stepped foot into medical school...I don't know the first thing about practicing medicine and I won't pretend to. You're taking your frustration from other people's comments out on me just because you chose to make some irrational implication out of my original post.

 

[VTBuc]

Agree with the bold part. I don't think I ever once said 'I want to be an MD' when I was a kid. Lol.

However, I think VT just made a random, non-offensive comment in a high-octane thread and was pounced on. He essentially said "I want to go MD, just because I want the MD - DO schools are legit, don't hold it against anyone." I THINK. That's kind of what I gathered altogether, and I have no problem with that assessment.

That, my friend, is exactly what I was trying to say. 😎

 

[JaggerPlate]

That, my friend, is exactly what I was trying to say. 😎

Yeah, I gotcha. It's really probably not anyone's fault. You mention the letters D and O in the pre-allo forum, and you better slip into the flame suit and prepare to snap, as a precaution, at all responses.

 

[DrMagic]

They should just have all the schools named MD, and have certain schools, or all the schools teach some electives in OMM. That way nobody has to worry about the issue anymore. If you feel like adding another tool to your toolbox you can do that with an elective.

 

[Morsetlis]

^ That would ignore the entire history of DO schools.

 

[osteohopeful09]

this thread is a cluster****, and only seems to be breeding bad karma.

1.) Some kids can't get into DO schools,. DO schools are actually harder to get into than Carib schools. believe me, I've done the whole DO application thing. most students who COULD go to DO would, but those that cant have to use the Caribbean.

2.) there is nothing "wrong" with caribbean schools, if it is the only way to achieve your dream of practicing medicine. Is your dream to be a dermatologist, and nothing else in the world would ever make you happy? THEN, going Caribbean is a mistake. If you want to be a physician, and genuinely care about helping people, no matter what the method, then Carib. is a fine route, esp. if any other US MD/DO school wouldn't give you the time of day.

3.) for the people saying "stay behind and apply for a few more years"...that is a pretty naive way of looking at things. if you have a 3.0 GPA, it will take YEARS of extra undergrad classes to boost that up. As we get older, we dont have time like that to devote to something that still isn't definite.

While I'm glad I got into DO school, if I *had* to do Caribbean, I would devote myself fully to it, and strive to be the best student in my class. If I had to become a specialty that wasn't the "lifestyle" choice-du-jour, then screw it. I want to be a physician above all else.

 

[JaggerPlate]

They should just have all the schools named MD, and have certain schools, or all the schools teach some electives in OMM. That way nobody has to worry about the issue anymore. If you feel like adding another tool to your toolbox you can do that with an elective.

That simple huh??? Email the AOA and tell them to disband, then email the LCME and tell them they have to site check and approve 28 schools. Then call all the DO residency programs and tell them they now have to be approved for ACGME accreditation. THEN ... we might be 1/8th there.

It's a complex issue ... and it will never happen. Going DO is a good option, if it's not for you, or you want the MD, then go for it. God bless. But let's not sit around dreaming up ways to make DO schools disappear or start offering electives in OMM at all Allo schools, etc.

 

[Siggy]

Edit: I fail for not checking post dates.

 

[carboxylWill]

The one DO I met gave me his business card, and it read: "Doctor _____ ______" instead of
____ _____ DO. That really put me off. The general public mostly don't know what a DO is, and I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my career explaining it to them, or feeling like I have to hide my degree. Since I'm mostly interested in non-competitive residencies, and I know I can hack it, I'd rather have the MD.

 

[mgobluefan]

Any chance I could chat with your friend? I have an interview with Ross on 06/23/10 and could use some qualified info.

Thanks!
MGoBlueFan

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

The one DO I met gave me his business card, and it read: "Doctor _____ ______" instead of
____ _____ DO. That really put me off. The general public mostly don't know what a DO is, and I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my career explaining it to them, or feeling like I have to hide my degree. Since I'm mostly interested in non-competitive residencies, and I know I can hack it, I'd rather have the MD.

Why did it put you off? Only MDs can say Doctor ________?

 

[jvesco22]

Why did it put you off? Only MDs can say Doctor ________?

probably because they usually used the M.D. after their name whereas the DO he was talking about left his title of "D.O." off the end of the card.

 

[Lisa D]

I've done tons of research on Carribean Medical Schools recently. The one I'm looking into is SABA. It is actually cheaper than US medical schools (one of the BIG reasons I am looking into the Carribean). The program is rather exotic as well: 20 months on the Island then another 18 month clinical rotation at one of the affiliated hospitals in the US... ANOTHER reason I am looking into the Carribean.

To say that the only reason people attend med school in the Carribean is because they cannot get in anywhere in the US is ignorant. That person needs to get THEIR facts straight...

I would likely rather travel to another country to get an MD than a DO. It's just my personal preference. Doesn't mean I'm ignorant or anything.



Do you have proof that it's much costlier to get an MD in the Caribbean than a DO in the US?

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

I've done tons of research on Carribean Medical Schools recently. The one I'm looking into is SABA. It is actually cheaper than US medical schools (one of the BIG reasons I am looking into the Carribean). The program is rather exotic as well: 20 months on the Island then another 18 month clinical rotation at one of the affiliated hospitals in the US... ANOTHER reason I am looking into the Carribean.

To say that the only reason people attend med school in the Carribean is because they cannot get in anywhere in the US is ignorant. That person needs to get THEIR facts straight...

hahaha. That's a good one. Why don't you do some reading here (and elsewhere) and learn a little about the odds of success coming from carib vs. US medical schools and correct your own ignorance.

You're right: most people go to school in the Caribbean because they can't get into U.S. schools. There are a few people like you, though, who are stupid enough to go there without that justification.