Why do radiologists earn so much??

[osumc2014]

Random question, I read a poll, but I'm just wondering why they make more than surgery even (in some instances)?

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[Schemp]

Probably because their job sucks.

 

[empty p orbital]

Radiology is arguable the fastest expanding field in medicine. This is because they are, more than any other field, truly using the newest, most technologically advanced imaging machines in the world. And as technology continues to advance exponentially, radiology becomes an extremely lucrative and popular field of practice. Other specialties are relying more and more on radiological imaging to diagnose their patients. In the modern world where a physician's salary is closely correlated to the number of actual procedures he/she performs, it logically follows that a radiologist, who performs far more CT/MRI scans than a surgeon performs surgeries, would be near the top of the pack when it comes to compensation.

 

[empty p orbital]

Probably because their job sucks.

On the contrary, from everything I have heard and read, and from my personal friend who is a radiologist, it provides a relatively great lifestyle (as far as being a doctor goes, anyway)... more or less normal hours, plenty of family time, when you are on call you can often read images from home in your pajamas, and great compensation to boot.

Sure it may not be as "sexy" to tell your friends "I'm a radiologist" as it would be to say "I'm a pediatric neurosurgeon," but if long-term job satisfaction and quality family life is more important to you than prestige, then it is a great specialty.

 

[Slack3r]

On the contrary, from everything I have heard and read, and from my personal friend who is a radiologist, it provides a relatively great lifestyle (as far as being a doctor goes, anyway)... more or less normal hours, plenty of family time, when you are on call you can often read images from home in your pajamas, and great compensation to boot.

Sure it may not be as "sexy" to tell your friends "I'm a radiologist" as it would be to say "I'm a pediatric neurosurgeon," but if long-term job satisfaction and quality family life is more important to you than prestige, then it is a great specialty.

I believe he was saying the actual "job" sucks. Reading films all day hardly seems entertaining. But it pays well and the hours aren't crazy, so that's why people "enjoy" it. Although, if they cut imaging reimbursements I can guarantee the popularity of rads will drop through the floor.

 

[Schemp]

I believe he was saying the actual "job" sucks. Reading films all day hardly seems entertaining. But it pays well and the hours aren't crazy, so that's why people "enjoy" it. Although, if they cut imaging reimbursements I can guarantee the popularity of rads will drop through the floor.

Yeah, I think it's fair to assume that radiologist pay is going to take a pretty heavy dip (as will many other specialties) in the near future.

My point was indeed that doing the actual work sucks. I was being kind of glib, but personally I would really hate it. Staring at images all day worrying about whether I'm missing something important does not sound like something I would enjoy, regardless of pay or lifestyle. Even if those are your main priorities I think there are better specialty choices. But clearly many people disagree; it's all in what you like to do.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Yeah, I think it's fair to assume that radiologist pay is going to take a pretty heavy dip (as will many other specialties) in the near future.

My point was indeed that doing the actual work sucks. I was being kind of glib, but personally I would really hate it. Staring at images all day worrying about whether I'm missing something important does not sound like something I would enjoy, regardless of pay or lifestyle. Even if those are your main priorities I think there are better specialty choices. But clearly many people disagree; it's all in what you like to do.

Isn't that what you do as a doctor anyway? Stare at people and worry all day that you didn't miss a symptom that could mean something worse than what it is? Radiology sounds like a sweet job.

 

[Lokhtar]

Not for long.


$1 prize to anyone who can guess the name of the only specialty specifically singled out for cuts in the new healthcare bill.


And yes, I've read the whole bill. Go to Section 1146.

 

[phoenixsuns]

because you don't get paid for how hard you work, you get paid for having unique skills. and radiologists have some unique ass skills

(i am not implying that radiologists do not work hard)

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Is it anesthesiology?

 

[Poliscidoc]

Is it Rads? If so please wire the $1 to my bank in Switzerland.

 

[da8s0859q]

Not for long.


$1 prize to anyone who can guess the name of the only specialty specifically singled out for cuts in the new healthcare bill.


And yes, I've read the whole bill. Go to Section 1146.

http://www.healthcarebillindex.com/HR3962/DIVISION_B/TITLE_I/SUBTITLE_B/PART_3/SEC_1146/

Fun.

 

[sshashid87]

Wasn't radiation oncology supposed to take a big hit as well? I read somewhere in the vicinity of 19%, but I could have been looking at a different bill...

 

[Doc187]

Were there fields that were virtually unaffected by the healthcare bill? I imagine something like plastic surgery, since most insurance doesn't cover it?

 

[empty p orbital]

http://www.healthcarebillindex.com/HR3962/DIVISION_B/TITLE_I/SUBTITLE_B/PART_3/SEC_1146/

Fun.

Just gonna push more doctors away from accepting Medicare patients...

 

[MossPoh]

Yeah, I think it's fair to assume that radiologist pay is going to take a pretty heavy dip (as will many other specialties) in the near future.

My point was indeed that doing the actual work sucks. I was being kind of glib, but personally I would really hate it. Staring at images all day worrying about whether I'm missing something important does not sound like something I would enjoy, regardless of pay or lifestyle. Even if those are your main priorities I think there are better specialty choices. But clearly many people disagree; it's all in what you like to do.

It also depends on what you do as a radiologist. My dad is one. He doesn't "stare" at images all day. He does various procedures, talks to patients about the procedures, talks to other docs about the diagnoses, etc. It was all very focused diagnostics without all the fluff for the most part.

I think there is this common perception that all you do is sit and stare idly at pictures all day, which is about as far from the truth as you can get. It is mentally exhausting and requires a huge database of medical knowledge. Some of them will even call to find out about lab, physical exam or history since other docs think they just stare at the picture and need nothing else to form a solid diagnoses.

Seriously, I've seen LOTS of radiologists with better bedside manner and patient communication than internists, fps, etc. There are some of them who are perfectly content sitting in a room and doing a mediocre job reading all day. There are also doctors who are perfectly content doing well-child checkups, treating HTN or diabetes or whatever else while staying in their office all day. There are surgeons that do JUST hernia repairs. In every field you go to there is going to be "boring" stuff and in every field there is someone that will be perfectly happy with that. Then there will be people who go out and do fellowships and work their arse off because they love treating a wide variety of things.

Bottom line, it isn't fair to say they just "stare" at images all day.


I posted this in another thread quite some time ago, but if you pursue what you love then the money really doesn't mean much. I had a talk about this very subject and was simply given the reply, "I am paid to friggin' do puzzles every day. You could cut my money in half and I'd still go to work because I love what I do."

Don't worry about the money. It'll only make you miserable. Many of the highest paid specialities also have the lowest satisfaction rates. This is probably because the best students follow the money since everyone tells them they need to, rather than simply pursuing what makes them happy.

P.S., reimbursement in Radiology has been going down LONG before this bill even came through. A full day used to be considered about 50-75 cases at the hospital in my town. The radiologists now have an "average" day of well over a 100 cases with about the same amount of money made. Two of the radiologists do over 150 cases a day fairly routinely. It doesn't help when other doctors don't rely on their clinical findings and nuke everyone in the scanner for verification either.

 

[radiodoc99]

Radiology is a skill which requires a long training and lots of hard work. Imagine being responsible for the anatomy of the entire human body and also having to deal with procedures in IR. It demands a lot of years and there are not too many training programs around. To be a board certified radiologist takes 5 years of residency and 3 board exams. Most read around 150 cases a day and as the field evolves they have to learn new technologies. More specialized skills = more pay. Neuroradiology is the hottest field.

 

[Nilf]

Radiology is a skill which requires a long training and lots of hard work. Imagine being responsible for the anatomy of the entire human body and also having to deal with procedures in IR. It demands a lot of years and there are not too many training programs around. To be a board certified radiologist takes 5 years of residency and 3 board exams. Most read around 150 cases a day and as the field evolves they have to learn new technologies. More specialized skills = more pay. Neuroradiology is the hottest field.

Lol... 'long training and lots of hard work'... Name one specialty which doesn't require that. '5 years of residency and 3 boards exams'... boohooo big deal, you're not the only one, I'm about to notch my third board cert. '150 cases a day... learning new technologies'... u funny.

Rads make bank because of combination of favorable reimbursement rates, influx of new technologies over the past two decades, and relatively few trainees churned out by training programs. All of these are likely to change.

I wish well to your specialty, but get over yourself. You are not the shizzle in the medical world. You are making bank because of unique historical, political, and economical millieu, not because you are so much more important than other doctors.

 

[FIREitUP]

It also depends on what you do as a radiologist. My dad is one. He doesn't "stare" at images all day. He does various procedures, talks to patients about the procedures, talks to other docs about the diagnoses, etc. It was all very focused diagnostics without all the fluff for the most part.

I think there is this common perception that all you do is sit and stare idly at pictures all day, which is about as far from the truth as you can get. It is mentally exhausting and requires a huge database of medical knowledge. Some of them will even call to find out about lab, physical exam or history since other docs think they just stare at the picture and need nothing else to form a solid diagnoses.

Seriously, I've seen LOTS of radiologists with better bedside manner and patient communication than internists, fps, etc. There are some of them who are perfectly content sitting in a room and doing a mediocre job reading all day. There are also doctors who are perfectly content doing well-child checkups, treating HTN or diabetes or whatever else while staying in their office all day. There are surgeons that do JUST hernia repairs. In every field you go to there is going to be "boring" stuff and in every field there is someone that will be perfectly happy with that. Then there will be people who go out and do fellowships and work their arse off because they love treating a wide variety of things.

Bottom line, it isn't fair to say they just "stare" at images all day.


I posted this in another thread quite some time ago, but if you pursue what you love then the money really doesn't mean much. I had a talk about this very subject and was simply given the reply, "I am paid to friggin' do puzzles every day. You could cut my money in half and I'd still go to work because I love what I do."

Don't worry about the money. It'll only make you miserable. Many of the highest paid specialities also have the lowest satisfaction rates. This is probably because the best students follow the money since everyone tells them they need to, rather than simply pursuing what makes them happy.

P.S., reimbursement in Radiology has been going down LONG before this bill even came through. A full day used to be considered about 50-75 cases at the hospital in my town. The radiologists now have an "average" day of well over a 100 cases with about the same amount of money made. Two of the radiologists do over 150 cases a day fairly routinely. It doesn't help when other doctors don't rely on their clinical findings and nuke everyone in the scanner for verification either.

QFT. You can't really blame physicians when considering the nature of physician liability is in America.

 

[MilkmanAl]

After starting med school and getting tested on a few radiographs of one type of another, you'll understand why radiologists make the big cash. Unless I'm looking at a shattered femur or a big-ass subdural hematoma, I have no clue what's in front of me. You can just forget about CT scans. I can usually tell you the organ or blood vessel, but picking out pathology? No way.

 

[AMEHigh]

After starting med school and getting tested on a few radiographs of one type of another, you'll understand why radiologists make the big cash. Unless I'm looking at a shattered femur or a big-ass subdural hematoma, I have no clue what's in front of me. You can just forget about CT scans. I can usually tell you the organ or blood vessel, but picking out pathology? No way.

Glad I'm not the only one 🙂

 

[Parts Unknown]

Rads make bank because of combination of favorable reimbursement rates, influx of new technologies over the past two decades, and relatively few trainees churned out by training programs. All of these are likely to change.
.

The influx of new trainees has been going on for awhile. Data from the NRMP:

Number of diagnostic radiology positions offered in the match (% filled):
1990 - 429 (99.7%)
1991 - 438
1992 - 456
1993 - 458
1994 - 438
1995 - 550 (73.5%)
1996 - 710
1997 - 692
1998 - 683
1999 - 722
2000 - 716 (98.5%)
2001 - 738
2002 - 788
2003 - 848
2004 - 855
2005 - 884 (99.5%)
2006 - 882
2007 - 902
2008 - 928
2009 - 944
2010 - 949 (99.6%)

 

[Nilf]

The influx of new trainees has been going on for awhile. Data from the NRMP:

Number of diagnostic radiology positions offered in the match (% filled):
1990 - 429 (99.7%)
1991 - 438
1992 - 456
1993 - 458
1994 - 438
1995 - 550 (73.5%)
1996 - 710
1997 - 692
1998 - 683
1999 - 722
2000 - 716 (98.5%)
2001 - 738
2002 - 788
2003 - 848
2004 - 855
2005 - 884 (99.5%)
2006 - 882
2007 - 902
2008 - 928
2009 - 944
2010 - 949 (99.6%)

The key word is 'relatively' few trainees. As opposed to pathology.

 

[Geekchick921]

Lol... 'long training and lots of hard work'... Name one specialty which doesn't require that. '5 years of residency and 3 boards exams'... boohooo big deal, you're not the only one, I'm about to notch my third board cert. '150 cases a day... learning new technologies'... u funny.

Rads make bank because of combination of favorable reimbursement rates, influx of new technologies over the past two decades, and relatively few trainees churned out by training programs. All of these are likely to change.

I wish well to your specialty, but get over yourself. You are not the shizzle in the medical world. You are making bank because of unique historical, political, and economical millieu, not because you are so much more important than other doctors.

Holy jumping Jesus. Nilf made a post in pre-allo that wasn't about trying to convince us all to do anything but medical school.

REPENT!!! The end is nigh!

🙂

 

[TheRadiologist]

Probably because their job sucks.

Well, I have been one for many years and I do not think my job sucks.

I would still go into this specialty even if I was making a lot less money. It may not be for you, but how much real experience do you have with radiology? Most non radiologists do not have an accurate appreciation of how challenging and complex the specialty is.

I know many radiologists and have yet to find one that wished he/she had gone into something else.

 

[pineappletree]

I don't know what all the fuss here is about



I shadowed one for a day, and he was just amazing. He was seeing patients in and out all day. He preformed a few delicate biopsy procedures on the neck, used his imaging devices to coordinate a fluid injection into someone's pelvic joint, and personally consulted with many patients on their X-rays.
He was taking phone calls all day as well, as different hospitals were inquiring about their patient's X-rays.

But the long and short of it is, it is a highly specialized skill. Looking at X-rays is pretty much an art form, if you don't have the training you can't read it.


Perhaps you guys are insinuating that radiologists don't work hard for their money.
But jeez the guy took a 15 minute lunch break and never slowed down


All I know is that i absolutely loved it
I would consider radiology my dream job

 

[Parts Unknown]

The key word is 'relatively' few trainees. As opposed to pathology.

I was commenting on the change over time, not the absolute number. Although one can infer that after 20 years of steadily increasing trainees, if reimbursement takes a big hit the job picture will rapidly become very bleak.

Edit: And even then I'm not sure what you mean. Pathology currently has significantly fewer trainees than radiology (although the number has also increased in the last 20 years, a dip around 2000 notwithstanding).

Pathology positions offered in the match (% filled):
1990 - 486 (60.1%) = 292
1995 - 438 (83.8%) = 367
2000 - 335 (73.4%) = 246
2005 - 526 (91.4%) = 481
2010 - 503 (96.2%) = 484

 

[docelh]

Don't radiologists can $ued a lot?

 

[Parts Unknown]

Don't radiologists can $ued a lot?

I have the website for you.

 

[45408]

After starting med school and getting tested on a few radiographs of one type of another, you'll understand why radiologists make the big cash. Unless I'm looking at a shattered femur or a big-ass subdural hematoma, I have no clue what's in front of me. You can just forget about CT scans. I can usually tell you the organ or blood vessel, but picking out pathology? No way.

You get better. I just routinely made an effort to review any of my patients' imaging, and it helped a lot. I would still never be able to pick out a zebra, but I can often find the pathology. Unless it's in the uterus/adnexa. I can never figure out gyn problems on CT.

 

[morning]

Holy jumping Jesus. Nilf made a post in pre-allo that wasn't about trying to convince us all to do anything but medical school.

REPENT!!! The end is nigh!

🙂

There's still time.

 

[Parts Unknown]

I don't understand the verbiage in this bill at all. I don't understand the part about current utilisation being 50% now, and going to 75% starting in 2011. If utilisation is expected to increase, wouldn't radiologist salaries increase accordingly?😕

It's a bit counterintuitive. Here:

http://www.auntminnie.com/index.asp?sec=ser&sub=def&pag=dis&ItemID=86493

Simply put, the equipment utilization rate represents CMS' estimate of the amount of time imaging equipment is in use in outpatient settings: Under the 50% rate, a piece of equipment is estimated to be used 25 hours during a 50-hour workweek.

The factor is a key component of the formula Medicare uses to calculate reimbursement for the technical component for all its services, including cost per scan in diagnostic imaging. It's based on the supply and demand principle -- the more imaging equipment is used, the lower CMS sets its reimbursement levels, and vice versa.

"Reimbursement and equipment utilization are inversely related," said Michael Mabry, executive director of the Radiology Business Management Association (RBMA) in Fairfax, VA. "When utilization goes up, Medicare's reimbursement per scan goes down."

 

[da8s0859q]

I don't know what all the fuss here is about ... I shadowed one for a day, and he was just amazing.

Well, there is a difference between interventional and diagnostic rads.

The dx guys just sit in the dark and count their money. 🙂

 

[docelh]

So cynical... They have incredible empathy for their radiographic images.

 

[MilkmanAl]

You get better. I just routinely made an effort to review any of my patients' imaging, and it helped a lot. I would still never be able to pick out a zebra, but I can often find the pathology. Unless it's in the uterus/adnexa. I can never figure out gyn problems on CT.

Nowhere to go but up, I suppose. That's one thing I'll definitely have to work on come next year.

 

[petyr_baelish]

It's a bit counterintuitive. Here:

http://www.auntminnie.com/index.asp?sec=ser&sub=def&pag=dis&ItemID=86493

Thanks!

I heard that interventional radiology may be phased out as other specialties, like OB/GYN, take over cases like ectopic pregnancies. So their problem may not be earning less because they will cease to exist.

Hopefully someone who is qualified to answer surfs the pre-med forum.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Thanks!

I heard that interventional radiology may be phased out as other specialties, like OB/GYN, take over cases like ectopic pregnancies. So their problem may not be earning less because they will cease to exist.

Hopefully someone who is qualified to answer surfs the pre-med forum.

As long as there is money in certain procedures, there will be turf wars over who should do them. The pendulum may swing from year to year, but I wouldn't anticipate IR ceasing to exist any time soon. If anything it will just continue to evolve as technology and reimbursement shift through the coming years.

 

[45408]

Nowhere to go but up, I suppose. That's one thing I'll definitely have to work on come next year.

You're not in your clinical years? I wasn't any good at imaging until M3 rolled around. It's also very different to be able to scroll through a CT yourself rather than look at one single image. If you give me a single axial image through the abdomen, there are quite a few small structures I can't identify. Even a radiologist wouldn't be able to distinguish some veins from lymph nodes in a single image. It starts making a lot more sense when you get the entire scan to work through.

 

[Lokhtar]

Just gonna push more doctors away from accepting Medicare patients...

No imaging services on the elderly? Yea. Good luck finding enough customers with that, especially if a bunch of people start doing it.

 

[OHMAN0125]

Thanks!

I heard that interventional radiology may be phased out as other specialties, like OB/GYN, take over cases like ectopic pregnancies. So their problem may not be earning less because they will cease to exist.

Hopefully someone who is qualified to answer surfs the pre-med forum.

LMAO!!! U really have no idea about radiology or ob-gyn.

 

[MisterVeil]

because you don't get paid for how hard you work, you get paid for having unique skills. and radiologists have some unique ass skills

Actually, I would assume GI docs have the best ass skills. 😉

 

[da8s0859q]

Actually, I would assume GI docs have the best ass skills. 😉