Why do school reject people with above average stats?

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House.0

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So I am a re-applicant with a balanced 514 MCAT and ~3.75/3.6s GPA from Notre Dame

Of all the schools that rejected me with 512, 508 etc. median MCATS and around my GPA, if at least one of them admitted me I would have attended the school and technically that would have raised their school's MCAT score

so why does a school with a median MCAT of 509 reject people with higher MCATs that end up not getting into a single school? wouldn't they want the MCAT boost?
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I think it’s much more complex then “if someone had an above average MCAT let’s admit them”. They look for fit, EC’s, stats and if an interview is granted than that as well. So possibly those schools rejected because something other than your above average MCAT (also bc it’s an average I’m sure they admit people with MCATs just as high or higher than yours as well as lower). Yield protection also occurs-but without hearing it straight from the admissions committee, you have no way of knowing if it was yield or the app.
 
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LizzyM said:
Because they excude a sense of entitlement (i.e. "you'd be lucky to get me")??
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That’s it. Getting into medical school is a privilege regardless of one’s “stats.” OP, maybe you didn’t come across well in your essays, or your ECs are not enough...look critically at your application to see where else the issue lies.


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House.0 said:
So I am a re-applicant with a balanced 514 MCAT and ~3.75/3.6s GPA from Notre Dame

Of all the schools that rejected me with 512, 508 etc. median MCATS and around my GPA, if at least one of them admitted me I would have attended the school and technically that would have raised their school's MCAT score

so why does a school with a median MCAT of 509 reject people with higher MCATs that end up not getting into a single school? wouldn't they want the MCAT boost?
Click to expand...
No, we want people who will make good doctors
 
House.0 said:
So I am a re-applicant with a balanced 514 MCAT and ~3.75/3.6s GPA from Notre Dame

Of all the schools that rejected me with 512, 508 etc. median MCATS and around my GPA, if at least one of them admitted me I would have attended the school and technically that would have raised their school's MCAT score

so why does a school with a median MCAT of 509 reject people with higher MCATs that end up not getting into a single school? wouldn't they want the MCAT boost?
Click to expand...

Friend with 4.0/517 MCAT got rejected from one of our local state school's when their averages were 503 MCAT and 3.6 GPA. The reason was because he wanted to go into a specialized field and this school took pride in its family med/primary care. You need to seriously read up about the schools and look into what they truly want from their class (IS-biases, missions, diversity, high-stats vs well-rounded). If not, you're practically donating money to them. You're forgetting that it's not just about stats and how well-rounded you are. To quote @Goro, "4.0 robots are a dime a dozen." There's a reason that applicants with >3.79/>517 still have an 88% chance of acceptance.
 
House.0 said:
So I am a re-applicant with a balanced 514 MCAT and ~3.75/3.6s GPA from Notre Dame

Of all the schools that rejected me with 512, 508 etc. median MCATS and around my GPA, if at least one of them admitted me I would have attended the school and technically that would have raised their school's MCAT score

so why does a school with a median MCAT of 509 reject people with higher MCATs that end up not getting into a single school? wouldn't they want the MCAT boost?
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Weird personal statements.

Bad LORs.

Lousy ECs.

The fact that a single 514 isn't going to budge your 509 median MCAT one iota.
 
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House.0 said:
So I am a re-applicant with a balanced 514 MCAT and ~3.75/3.6s GPA from Notre Dame
Of all the schools that rejected me with 512, 508 etc. median MCATS and around my GPA, if at least one of them admitted me I would have attended the school and technically that would have raised their school's MCAT score
so why does a school with a median MCAT of 509 reject people with higher MCATs that end up not getting into a single school? wouldn't they want the MCAT boost?
Click to expand...

OP, are you from one of the miserable states such as Iowa, California, New Hampshire, Maine or Rhode Island? That might be your problem.

Notre Dame might be another problem. Notre Dame has very high admission standards and I have been told that ND has very tough curves in science classes. However, there are a lot of people out there who despise Notre Dame and there may be *****s in admissions offices who think of ND as a football factory. If you have to apply again, make sure you apply at Creighton, Saint Louis, Georgetown and Loyola. Are you getting my drift here?
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
OP, are you from one of the miserable states such as Iowa, California, New Hampshire, Maine or Rhode Island? That might be your problem.

Notre Dame might be another problem. Notre Dame has very high admission standards and I have been told that ND has very tough curves in science classes. However, there are a lot of people out there who despise Notre Dame and there may be *****s in admissions offices who think of ND as a football factory. If you have to apply again, make sure you apply at Creighton, Saint Louis, Georgetown and Loyola. Are you getting my drift here?
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"*****s"? Really? Ignorance is one thing, but spiteful ignorance is quite another.

Notre Dame is well known as an excellent premedical school, and its graduates have a very high rate of success in medical admissions.

Three of the five largest non-profit hospital systems in the country are Catholic, so I would not fret too much about anti-Jesuit bias.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
OP, are you from one of the miserable states such as Iowa, California, New Hampshire, Maine or Rhode Island? That might be your problem.

Notre Dame might be another problem. Notre Dame has very high admission standards and I have been told that ND has very tough curves in science classes. However, there are a lot of people out there who despise Notre Dame and there may be *****s in admissions offices who think of ND as a football factory. If you have to apply again, make sure you apply at Creighton, Saint Louis, Georgetown and Loyola. Are you getting my drift here?
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Only apply to those schools with long-term volunteer commitments. I will also tell you the cycle is long. Although I got an early acceptance from my state school, I didn't get into my med school until a few weeks until orientation. Drop any expectations and spend this time making your application shine.
 
Med Ed said:
Three of the five largest non-profit hospital systems in the country are Catholic, so I would not fret too much about anti-Jesuit bias.
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Notre Dame isn't even Jesuit. It is Congregation of the Holy Cross. ND's pre-med advisor, Fr. James Foster, was a physician in private practice before becoming a priest in the Congregation of the Holy Cross. Rev. James K. - Foster, C.S.C. // Holy Cross at Notre Dame // University of Notre Dame

I consider him one of the best advisors in the business.
 
Are applicants from ND seen in any special light by adcoms? someone mentioned their tough curves - do adcoms familiar with ND take that into consideration when looking at their GPAs or something? just curious
 
What I don’t understand is- many schools are tailored towards a specific specialty branch, like primary care, specialty etc.

I have NO idea what kind of doctor I want to be, and every doctor I talk to tells me I won’t figure it out at least until year 3. Pulmonology was my original, and now I’m struggling between whether I would like to do primary care or Gen Surg/ENT. And I’m sure I’ll change my mind again.

And I’ve been a nurse 3 years. Spoken to and SEEN these doctors work. So how has someone with even less direct contact supposed to decide before actually working in those areas? Even graduating nursing school I had no idea I wanted to be an ICU nurse, until I worked as a nurse. I thought I wanted to be a WOC nurse. Actually working in an area gives you a level of understanding you could never get otherwise.


And none of this is even mentioning that you have to match to get your choice.
 
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hhap1234 said:
Are applicants from ND seen in any special light by adcoms? someone mentioned their tough curves - do adcoms familiar with ND take that into consideration when looking at their GPAs or something? just curious
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A special light? Not particularly, in my experience. There are a number of institutions comparable in rigor, so while Notre Dame is in good company, it’s still company.
 
RNtoMD87 said:
What I don’t understand is- many schools are tailored towards a specific specialty branch, like primary care, specialty etc.
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A subset are hardcore primary care, a subset are hardcore academic/research, but the majority serve the vast, undifferentiated middle.
 
Med Ed said:
A subset are hardcore primary care, a subset are hardcore academic/research, but the majority serve the vast, undifferentiated middle.
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What happens if you think you want to be primary care, go to one of those schools and decide you don’t like it? I’m sure there are aspects you could never imagine until you’re in it.
 
RNtoMD87 said:
What happens if you think you want to be primary care, go to one of those schools and decide you don’t like it?
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You change your mind.

LCME accreditation requires every school to be capable of matching its graduates into any field. Primary care schools are primary care schools mostly because of their admissions processes. Once you're in there is no way a gun can be pressed against your temple as you fill out your ERAS application.

Brody School of Medicine at ECU is a good example. A very large percentage of its graduates go into primary care fields, OB/GYN, and general surgery, which are the highest need specialties. Look at any of their match results, however, and you will see scattered orthopedics, ophthalmology, dermatology, etc.
 
Med Ed said:
"*****s"? Really? Ignorance is one thing, but spiteful ignorance is quite another.
Notre Dame is well known as an excellent premedical school, and its graduates have a very high rate of success in medical admissions.
Three of the five largest non-profit hospital systems in the country are Catholic, so I would not fret too much about anti-Jesuit bias.
Click to expand...

I've spoken with numerous adcom types and I can honestly state that many are perfectly ignorant about the varying rigor of American undergraduate schools. This, and their pathetic laziness, is the reason that many of these screw balls fail to normalize transcripts.
 
hhap1234 said:
Are applicants from ND seen in any special light by adcoms? someone mentioned their tough curves - do adcoms familiar with ND take that into consideration when looking at their GPAs or something? just curious
Click to expand...
No.
 
RNtoMD87 said:
What happens if you think you want to be primary care, go to one of those schools and decide you don’t like it? I’m sure there are aspects you could never imagine until you’re in it.
Click to expand...
I go to a school with a with a strong focus on primary care. Like, it's their whole shtick. And even here the ultimate goal is only to have 50% of students go into primary care (as opposed to the national average of ~20%). I actually assumed I was DOA when I said in both my secondary application and my interview that I was interested in more procedural specialties like EM or surgery, but they still accepted me. A large number of my classmates have similar stories.
 
gonnif said:
Lets clarify the mindset that most applicants get wrong. Everyone starts this process as rejected. You are waiting for an acceptance. There is this presumption that applicants have the requisite grades, mcat, EC, etc and therefore should be accepted. The simple truth in this Olympic class event where all the competition is good but only the first 3 get medals.
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Yes we are well aware. Thank you.
 
Med Ed said:
In what capacity?
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As a citizen and a taxpayer.

You look at this OP and you can see in a flash two basic problems. First, nobody knows what admissions committees want. Everything is stated in generalities. What counts as clinical volunteering? What counts as research? It is all terribly vague. No one could ever manage any kind of organization in a competitive market this way. Everything is just a whim. It's straight out of Kafka.

Second, including osteopathic schools, there are now over 170 medical schools in the U.S. and Puerto Rico. Why haven't they pooled their resources to create a data base and an algorithm to normalize transcripts to predict medical school success? The data, including undergraduate GPAs, MCATs, average SAT and ACT scores, Step 1 and Step 2 scores, already exist.

Instead of actually using the data they have, adcoms waste their time reading personal statements that are often ghost written. They then put people through these nonsensical interviews that are a happy hunting ground for sociopaths. I'm sure the adcoms all get a big ego rush while they dangle acceptance letters in front of salivating applicants.

The OP has a perfect right to be frustrated. If he has the stats he claims, he should be in medical school next fall. There's a good chance he won't get in and he still won't know the reason.
 
Because the admissions process is bull****. Admissions committees think they know what they're doing but they really don't. I interviewed at my med school in October. Got waitlisted with a 36 MCAT and didn't get in till June! One of my classmates interviewed in Dec with an MCAT of 29. Got accepted in January. Guess what? Just FAILED Step 1.

All this to say OP that its unpredictable. Dont listen to anyone who tells you "oh you didn't get im because you didn't have this blah blah". I don't buy that. You clearly have the scores and extra stuff. The whole process is just BS.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
Instead of actually using the data they have, adcoms waste their time reading personal statements that are often ghost written. They then put people through these nonsensical interviews that are a happy hunting ground for sociopaths. I'm sure the adcoms all get a big ego rush while they dangle acceptance letters in front of salivating applicants.

The OP has a perfect right to be frustrated. If he has the stats he claims, he should be in medical school next fall. There's a good chance he won't get in and he still won't know the reason.
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What adcom hurt you? Lol
I disagree completely on the interview portion. That is the most critical part of figuring out if someone should be a physician, not “if he has the stats, he should be in med school.” Not everyone with a 520 mcat and X amount of hours will make a good physician. Many people can take exams but are completely socially and emotionally inept.


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OrthoTraumaMD said:
What adcom hurt you? Lol
I disagree completely on the interview portion. That is the most critical part of figuring out if someone should be a physician, not “if he has the stats, he should be in med school.” Not everyone with a 520 mcat and X amount of hours will make a good physician. Many people can take exams but are completely socially and emotionally inept.


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Click to expand...

Nah. People can fake interviews easy for a day. I know plenty of psychopaths who pit on a good face for a day.
 
LBJLA23 said:
Because the admissions process is bull****. Admissions committees think they know what they're doing but they really don't. I interviewed at my med school in October. Got waitlisted with a 36 MCAT and didn't get in till June! One of my classmates interviewed in Dec with an MCAT of 29. Got accepted in January. Guess what? Just FAILED Step 1.

All this to say OP that its unpredictable. Dont listen to anyone who tells you "oh you didn't get im because you didn't have this blah blah". I don't buy that. You clearly have the scores and extra stuff. The whole process is just BS.
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This. This. This. You have nailed it.
 
House.0 said:
So I am a re-applicant with a balanced 514 MCAT and ~3.75/3.6s GPA from Notre Dame

Of all the schools that rejected me with 512, 508 etc. median MCATS and around my GPA, if at least one of them admitted me I would have attended the school and technically that would have raised their school's MCAT score

so why does a school with a median MCAT of 509 reject people with higher MCATs that end up not getting into a single school? wouldn't they want the MCAT boost?
Click to expand...

cuz muh affirmative action makes numbers irrelevant.

apply as a so-called "person of color" next time and you will probably get a full-ride to one of those schools
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
By talking to these goobers face to face.
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How did you do this? Travel to medical schools and ask for them? Send out emails asking to meet for coffee? Go to meetings and walk around asking random people "Are you an admissions committee member?"
 
LBJLA23 said:
Nah. People can fake interviews easy for a day. I know plenty of psychopaths who pit on a good face for a day.
Click to expand...

The process is not perfect, no process is, but most good interviewers can spot someone who is “off.” I’ve seen plenty of them. The alternative is to have no interviews—psychos could get in even more easily then.


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