Why do well if not going to specialize?

[smthngintheway]

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Hi all,

I was just wondering if there is any point to doing well in dental school and being in the top of your class if you have no specific desire to specialize. Are there any other benefits? Could you get into a better GPR program or get a better job at a better practice or...??

I just don't want to stay in school until my thirties and want to start my friggin life already!!

 

[UCSFx2017]

I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to try their best in everything they do. Don't you want be as competent a doctor as possible? If you're going to skimp out on dental education, you're depriving just as much training from the patient as well. But yes, you could graduate at the bottom of your class and practice just as freely as the dentist who graduated at the top of his/her class. You have to apply for GPR and the residencies are still competitive. Because dentistry is a surgical profession, I think experience becomes more valuable than a limited four year education.

 

[djeffreyt]

Hi all,

I was just wondering if there is any point to doing well in dental school and being in the top of your class if you have no specific desire to specialize. Are there any other benefits? Could you get into a better GPR program or get a better job at a better practice or...??

I just don't want to stay in school until my thirties and want to start my friggin life already!!

GPRs will sometimes consider your grades, but it's not usually the most important thing in those programs.

The only reason to work hard in school if you aren't trying to specialize is so that you can be a better dentist. Being highly ranked in your class or getting good grades doesn't really always correlate with learning things well or learning more, but they usually do. It's surprising how much of school learning will eventually come back in one form or another when out in the real world of dental practice, but there is also a lot to learn about dentistry that is not normally part of the curriculum. Find what's important for you to learn and learn it well.

 

[Daurang]

You're overpaying way too much for what you're taught for your dental degree, so you might as well get as much out of it as possible. Your ranking gives you extra options but doesn't dictate your business accumen or guarantee your future business success.

 

[7 Iron]

You're overpaying way too much for what you're taught for your dental degree, so you might as well get as much out of it as possible. Your ranking gives you extra options but doesn't dictate your business accumen or guarantee your future business success.

True, but for that money we are getting training in a lot of mostly useless crap, like biochemistry.

 

[diasIItema]

Aim for A's and be satisfied with less. There's no need to get stressed out but there's also no reason not to pursue excellence. I probably study less than everyone in my class, but I rank near the top. A lot has to do with intelligence, but a lot has to do with focusing on what matters and not letting the minutia stress me out. I sleep very well and have a great social life relative to my classmates b/c I choose to live for the moment rather than four years from now. Seeing how I don't want to specialize, it's a win-win.

 

[Titus Times]

You ^^ are the epitome of what the OP was getting at, or at least what it would assume he was getting at.

So do you feel you have nearly as good a social life as you did in UnderGrad, if that is true then thats excellent and it might lend to your lower stress and higher performance when it comes test time.

 

[bigstix808]

Aim for A's and be satisfied with less. There's no need to get stressed out but there's also no reason not to pursue excellence. I probably study less than everyone in my class, but I rank near the top. A lot has to do with intelligence, but a lot has to do with focusing on what matters and not letting the minutia stress me out. I sleep very well and have a great social life relative to my classmates b/c I choose to live for the moment rather than four years from now. Seeing how I don't want to specialize, it's a win-win.

some people get it...some dont. i do think that the basic sciences that we learn are very relevant in our profession, as how any medical professional should see it. however, just like in ANY medical professional... experience is key. your complete grasp of the fundementals will only make you a better clinician. im not talking about the guy that can memorize tons of notes to take a test...but the guy (or gal, not being sexist) that can take said information and make actual clinical judgements on an actual patient. i have run in to wayyyy too many "top of the class" folks that can not to this day explain to me why we use a luting cement as opposed to a resin bonded cement (or the other way around) for some fixed work and not others. or plenty of folks that dont get how epinephrine reversal works, yet passed pharm, phys, biochem, with no probs.

i wouldn't care so much on the clinician that simply "passed the tests" to get the A. i want to know who the person that gave a damn to actually "learn" the material to be working on me in any context.

if you seek out knowledge to better your self and your talents you'll never fall on the bottom of the pile. and if you do, well, you might be in the wrong profession.

 

[Mackchops]

GPRs will sometimes consider your grades, but it's not usually the most important thing in those programs.

The only reason to work hard in school if you aren't trying to specialize is so that you can be a better dentist. Being highly ranked in your class or getting good grades doesn't really always correlate with learning things well or learning more, but they usually do. It's surprising how much of school learning will eventually come back in one form or another when out in the real world of dental practice, but there is also a lot to learn about dentistry that is not normally part of the curriculum. Find what's important for you to learn and learn it well.

This 👍

I will add that I know more than one person who figured out too late that they wanted to specialize. Keep doors open.

 

[DrJeff]

True, but for that money we are getting training in a lot of mostly useless crap, like biochemistry.

Unfortunately, the mouth on any patient that is alive, is attached to the rest of their body, and the drugs that you use on them and the materials that you place in them can have various interactions with organ systems and other drugs, etc that are far from the mouth, and YOU need to learn how to deal with that.

And has been said too in this thread in other posts, it's amazing how much of the stuff that you have to learn in dental school, where at the time you seriously question it's relevance to what a you think a dentist does, you actually do end up using as you begin to experience what a dentist actually does

 

[Dent4GA]

Asking any person from the street if they would prefer a dentist that did well in his classes, or someone that just skimped on by, I'm sure they would prefer the A student. It would probably also scare a patient that you would rather not put that much effort into your dental education.

 

[mixoma]

If you are a 100% sure you are not interested in specializing like I was you should do the following. Study just enough to know the information in the meaningless classes like biochem to pass the class and pass boards (still a grip of studying), but dont kill yourself like most people. Take time to enjoy your family or personal time and dental school wont be as bad for you as most of your classmates. Also since you are going to be a GP make sure you get a good clinical experience by doing extra cases and assisting in the residency programs available at your school in your spare time, this is a great way to expand your knowledge and get a feel for the scope you would like to practice. There is a tone of GPR programs and grades dont matter for 99% of these programs. This is what I did and dental school was not that bad for me. I learned alot clinical wise at my program as I was not stressing about the tests we had that week, and instead taking on larger cases or scrubbing in on a sinus lift with a perio resident.

 

[UCSFx2017]

True, but for that money we are getting training in a lot of mostly useless crap, like biochemistry.

It's that kind of thinking that further pushes dentistry into the slippery slope of vocationalism. That simplicity-based mindset says, "just tell me what I need to know and nothing more; keep everything snappy, practical, and up-to-date, with nothing theoretical and irrelevant. Students, the educational consumer, can be astonishingly ambivalent, leading to the observation that education is the only business in which the clients want the least for their money. The tendency, by the way, to simplify and to pragmatize by offering useful information eviscerated of any real understanding or true knowledge is nothing new...the problem with such an approach is that it encourages acceptance of flawed assertions as true and tends, in the long run, to move one away from truth than toward it. The phrases 'This works well in my hands' or 'I do it this way and I never had a problem' are commonly heard in dentistry. When they are, they do not represent the voice of a man or woman of science." Quoted from Dr. Bertolami.

 

[smilesdh5]

So many people would like to be in your position. Dont take opportunities for granted. I am currently a hygienist, and trust me patients can tell if you love and enjoy your profession..You should never strive to become mediocre!😕As others stated do the best you can and get all you can out of your education, you are certainly going to pay for it! Plus you dont want your coworkers-Hygienist to exceed your own knowledge..hint hint*😉 Doctors are our leaders and we follow their lead.Best wishes to you*

 

[KSDental]

You should definitely give your best effort in dental school for every class. You will be using this knowledge for the rest of your career and this will be the best time to learn it. Dental school is very competitive so you have to work hard to keep a respectable rank. While grades don't perfectly correlate with aptitude, there definitely is a correlation.

Additionally, I don't agree with the belief that only clinical classes matter. Without a strong foundation in the sciences a dentist cannot properly diagnose or treatment plan. Without these skills, hand skills are useless.

 

[djeffreyt]

I can tell you I didn't always work hard for every class in school. I was a middle of the road student along with my social life and student leadership. Since getting out into the real world of dentistry, there are quite a few things I wish I was better at. I'm perfectly happy with my hand skills and my patient interaction skills, but man, sometimes I wish i didn't have to pretend to need something in order to dip out of the room to look up a medication I am unfamiliar with. Sometimes as I read an article on a new product, I wish my dental materials knowledge and bio-compatibility knowledge was a little sharper.

One thing I do find I have been lucky to have is a great group of friends who are dentists. Guess who I call when I encounter problems I am not always sure of the answer to...kids who were in the top of my class who went on to various specialties.

Like the time the mom told me her kid was hurting but swore he was allergic to tylenol and ibuprofen and couldn't swallow pills...well crap...Hello every pediatrician and pedo dentist and oral surgeon I know...what the hell do i prescribe?

Or when I decided to I and D for the first time in my life without anyone else around on a friday evening and couldn't get any purulence to come out...Crap, I called my lifelines again.

Or my first sequestrum diagnosis, or the lady who came in with more medications than I knew existed, or the dental product rep that made me feel like a dunce....

Being a doctor came with a lot more responsibility than I ever expected when I started down this road less than a decade ago.

 

[Bereno]

I can tell you I didn't always work hard for every class in school. I was a middle of the road student along with my social life and student leadership. Since getting out into the real world of dentistry, there are quite a few things I wish I was better at. I'm perfectly happy with my hand skills and my patient interaction skills, but man, sometimes I wish i didn't have to pretend to need something in order to dip out of the room to look up a medication I am unfamiliar with. Sometimes as I read an article on a new product, I wish my dental materials knowledge and bio-compatibility knowledge was a little sharper.

One thing I do find I have been lucky to have is a great group of friends who are dentists. Guess who I call when I encounter problems I am not always sure of the answer to...kids who were in the top of my class who went on to various specialties.

Like the time the mom told me her kid was hurting but swore he was allergic to tylenol and ibuprofen and couldn't swallow pills...well crap...Hello every pediatrician and pedo dentist and oral surgeon I know...what the hell do i prescribe?

Or when I decided to I and D for the first time in my life without anyone else around on a friday evening and couldn't get any purulence to come out...Crap, I called my lifelines again.

Or my first sequestrum diagnosis, or the lady who came in with more medications than I knew existed, or the dental product rep that made me feel like a dunce....

Being a doctor came with a lot more responsibility than I ever expected when I started down this road less than a decade ago.

This is a great post. I think a lot of people forget that it is important to stay diligent and to continue to learn after they graduate. In order to be a better practitioner, you need to keep on learning. 👍

 

[UCSFx2017]

I can tell you I didn't always work hard for every class in school. I was a middle of the road student along with my social life and student leadership. Since getting out into the real world of dentistry, there are quite a few things I wish I was better at. I'm perfectly happy with my hand skills and my patient interaction skills, but man, sometimes I wish i didn't have to pretend to need something in order to dip out of the room to look up a medication I am unfamiliar with. Sometimes as I read an article on a new product, I wish my dental materials knowledge and bio-compatibility knowledge was a little sharper.

One thing I do find I have been lucky to have is a great group of friends who are dentists. Guess who I call when I encounter problems I am not always sure of the answer to...kids who were in the top of my class who went on to various specialties.

Like the time the mom told me her kid was hurting but swore he was allergic to tylenol and ibuprofen and couldn't swallow pills...well crap...Hello every pediatrician and pedo dentist and oral surgeon I know...what the hell do i prescribe?

Or when I decided to I and D for the first time in my life without anyone else around on a friday evening and couldn't get any purulence to come out...Crap, I called my lifelines again.

Or my first sequestrum diagnosis, or the lady who came in with more medications than I knew existed, or the dental product rep that made me feel like a dunce....

Being a doctor came with a lot more responsibility than I ever expected when I started down this road less than a decade ago.

This is a great post. I think a lot of people forget that it is important to stay diligent and to continue to learn after they graduate. In order to be a better practitioner, you need to keep on learning. 👍

I agree. Great post!

 

[kyak]

If you are a 100% sure you are not interested in specializing like I was you should do the following. Study just enough to know the information in the meaningless classes like biochem to pass the class and pass boards (still a grip of studying), but dont kill yourself like most people. Take time to enjoy your family or personal time and dental school wont be as bad for you as most of your classmates. Also since you are going to be a GP make sure you get a good clinical experience by doing extra cases and assisting in the residency programs available at your school in your spare time, this is a great way to expand your knowledge and get a feel for the scope you would like to practice. There is a tone of GPR programs and grades dont matter for 99% of these programs. This is what I did and dental school was not that bad for me. I learned alot clinical wise at my program as I was not stressing about the tests we had that week, and instead taking on larger cases or scrubbing in on a sinus lift with a perio resident.

I'll agree that life balance is important, and many students miss out on that. Kill themselves for 4 years, then are surprised to find out that their DSchool straight A's did not prepare them for a career in the same way that UGrad straight A's got them to DS. They obsess over maintaining a GPA, often at the expense of real learning.

Learning, of course, is why we're in school in the first place (NOT A 4.0 GPA)

But mixoma- to say that there are "meaningless classes" is to imply a lack of value in that knowledge we gain in understanding mechanisms- the theory, the why. I'll agree that there are big components of the curriculum that seem irrelevant, but I would rather be over- rather than under-exposed to material.

It's about priorities. Make it a priority to become a good clinician, a community leader, to build the practice you want to be in, to build your skill sets and competencies. Keep your grades up, but work that into those other priorities. Hint: it won't always be on the very top, unless you're a robot. Patients get edgy with robo-dentists, typically preferring a f*&#@!ng human being instead.

Grades usually correlate with learning. Usually.

And scrub in on as many of those sinus lifts /OS cases as you can while in school...the GPA-obsessed, residency-or-bust, gunner-type will rarely fight you for them, because they're too busy memorizing every step of glycolysis again At the end of the day you will have LEARNED far more than them. As a patient, I'll pick THAT dentist any day.