Why DO?

[BuffPremed]

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Hey everyone, I will be applying next year to many MD schools as well as DO schools. I was wondering why you all went/are going/aspiring for DO over MD? Also, why is the stigma of DO on SDN always DO should be used as a backup? I don't get it because MSUCOM is in the top 10 of Primary Care on US News. Anyone here want to shed some light on this situation? Because, IMHO, DOs and MDs should be looked at the same way as DDS's and DMD's in dental terms.

Also, the merger of the AOA and the ACGME good or bad for DOs?

 

[Apoplexy__]

Hey, I'm a DO student.

Also, why is the stigma of DO on SDN always DO should be used as a backup?

Mostly residency options -- particularly for competitive specialties.
-DO residencies are more likely to be lower quality
-All the name-brands are MD
-Program directors may be unfamiliar with evaluating DO's for admission and be hesitant to accept one. There may also be flat-out bias against DOs.
-Some specialties don't have osteopathic residencies (the main one I can think of is Pathology). If you want a specialty like this, you're forced to match into an MD residency
-In general, it's recommended you take at least Step 1 of both board exams as a DO. I may personally be taking all 3 Steps of both exams, for a total of 8 exams (Step 2 has two parts), thousands of dollars, and probably 100+ exam hours.

Plus, all the annoyance that comes with people confusing your degree for that of an optometrist's or your practice for that of a homeopath's.

Also, the merger of the AOA and the ACGME good or bad for DOs?

Hard to say. Here are some possible effects:
-More credibility, higher standards, and better quality for osteopathic residencies
-Greater entrance of DO grads into MD residencies, giving way to less bias and more familiarity (possibly alleviating some of the problems in the list above)
-More competition and less opportunity for osteopathic grads in residency
-Less osteopathic residencies available as some may close down when subject to MD residency regulations
-Greater clouding of the osteopathic identity (e.g. do MD grads get taught OMM at osteopathic residencies?)

Maybe another DO student can comment more on this.

 

[adriano710]

Hey everyone, I will be applying next year to many MD schools as well as DO schools. I was wondering why you all went/are going/aspiring for DO over MD? Also, why is the stigma of DO on SDN always DO should be used as a backup? I don't get it because MSUCOM is in the top 10 of Primary Care on US News. Anyone here want to shed some light on this situation? Because, IMHO, DOs and MDs should be looked at the same way as DDS's and DMD's in dental terms.

Also, the merger of the AOA and the ACGME good or bad for DOs?

MSU-COM is a top 3 DO school in the nation. Are you a MI resident?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

MSU-COM is a top 3 DO school in the nation. Are you a MI resident?

Haha just say top tier

 

[RTC19]

Also, why is the stigma of DO on SDN always DO should be used as a backup?

To answer this question, I want to echo everything kirbymiester mentioned, but also add that DO schools have a tendency to be more expensive than MD schools.

 

[Promethean]

To answer this question, I want to echo everything kirbymiester mentioned, but also add that DO schools have a tendency to be more expensive than MD schools.

Except when they are cheaper. LECOM is $30k at all campuses, making it the least expensive option for me, given that even my state school charges more than that. It isn't my first choice, but it is definitely the most affordable. There are a few schools that are even cheaper, if you are in state for them. West Virginia is $20k. Texas is around there.

 

[baxt1412]

because manipulation is like witchcraft that won't get you hung 🙂 no but really, it's an incredible tool.

 

[cliquesh]

Hey, I'm a DO student.



Mostly residency options -- particularly for competitive specialties.
-DO residencies are more likely to be lower quality
-All the name-brands are MD
-Program directors may be unfamiliar with evaluating DO's for admission and be hesitant to accept one. There may also be flat-out bias against DOs.
-Some specialties don't have osteopathic residencies (the main one I can think of is Pathology). If you want a specialty like this, you're forced to match into an MD residency
-In general, it's recommended you take at least Step 1 of both board exams as a DO. I may personally be taking all 3 Steps of both exams, for a total of 8 exams (Step 2 has two parts), thousands of dollars, and probably 100+ exam hours.

Plus, all the annoyance that comes with people confusing your degree for that of an optometrist's or your practice for that of a homeopath's.



Hard to say. Here are some possible effects:
-More credibility, higher standards, and better quality for osteopathic residencies
-Greater entrance of DO grads into MD residencies, giving way to less bias and more familiarity (possibly alleviating some of the problems in the list above)
-More competition and less opportunity for osteopathic grads in residency
-Less osteopathic residencies available as some may close down when subject to MD residency regulations
-Greater clouding of the osteopathic identity (e.g. do MD grads get taught OMM at osteopathic residencies?)

Maybe another DO student can comment more on this.

I think that's a bit of overkill, hah.

I think the AOA/acgme merger is good in the long run. It will improve the quality of post graduate training for all DOs, and having one match will be great.

In the short term, I think we might see a decrease in DO specialists, particularly surgical subspecialties, because some AOA programs will not survive the merger.

 

[MedicineMan99]

If you understand the DO philosophy, the real question most pre-meds should be answering is:

Why MD and not DO?

 

[osteohack10]

I chose DO over MD because I appreciate a hands on approach and being given tools during my education to help me develop trusting relationships with a patient. Not that you absolutely won't get that at an MD program but there's certainly an emphasis on it in DO schools.

 

[WaterIsGood]

Oh bruhvah

 

[FutureDrB]

Except when they are cheaper. LECOM is $30k at all campuses, making it the least expensive option for me, given that even my state school charges more than that. It isn't my first choice, but it is definitely the most affordable. There are a few schools that are even cheaper, if you are in state for them. West Virginia is $20k. Texas is around there.

Texas is only $13K.

Da*m you TMDSAS, da*m you.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

If you understand the DO philosophy, the real question most pre-meds should be answering is:

Why MD and not DO?

I'm very Pro DO but there are obvious reasons people prefer MD schools.

There are also non obvious but valid reasons to go to DO school. That is why this question (why do) is asked. Also DO school's want to see you understand the differences.

 

[radkat101]

I'm from Texas, and matched to TCOM. It wasn't so much that I wanted MD/DO as much as I wanted to stay in state for the tuition. It's 20k for the first year after fees, and around 16k for years 2,3,4. I'm happy where I ended up and residency programs don't really seem to care much about the difference down here since TCOM is so old, and has residents all over. Most of us stay in Texas for residency. I do think that there are definitely parts of the country where DO bias exists and I've already heard 4th years who are trying to match in other places complain about it. Also some people really dislike OMM which takes away a lot of study time. Too early for me to have an opinion on that though. There are just so many variables to consider when choosing a school.

 

[BuffPremed]

I'm very Pro DO but there are obvious reasons people prefer MD schools.

There are also non obvious but valid reasons to go to DO school. That is why this question (why do) is asked. Also DO school's want to see you understand the differences.

I am seriously not trying to troll here. I am on an upward trend (4.0 for the last 4 semesters) and my GPA will only be going up. I'm afraid that my GPA will be a little low for MD (currently 3.62 cGPA/3.42 sGPA) so I am looking at DO schools. I am aware of the philosophy that DO schools carry and I am very interested in preventative medicine, as well as underserved medicine.

Why are you pro DO?

 

[Mr Kenobi]

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I am seriously not trying to troll here. I am on an upward trend (4.0 for the last 4 semesters) and my GPA will only be going up. I'm afraid that my GPA will be a little low for MD (currently 3.62 cGPA/3.42 sGPA) so I am looking at DO schools. I am aware of the philosophy that DO schools carry and I am very interested in preventative medicine, as well as underserved medicine.

Why are you pro DO?

because primary care physician so DO as well as other things

 

[RTC19]

Except when they are cheaper. LECOM is $30k at all campuses, making it the least expensive option for me, given that even my state school charges more than that. It isn't my first choice, but it is definitely the most affordable. There are a few schools that are even cheaper, if you are in state for them. West Virginia is $20k. Texas is around there.

Huh. I never knew that! I retract my original statement.

 

[CharmanderMD]

I literally couldn't touch the "Why DO?" question until I started reading books about the history of osteopathic medicine. I just wrote a dramatic (comedic) secondary essay about my quest to answering this question.

 

[doreegon]

Hey Charmander. I'm currently reading The Textbook of Family Medicine (McWhinney and Freeman 3rd edition) to prep for interviews. The text is really a survery of the history of the bio-psycho-social approach and "whole-person" medicine as it applies to family medicine. It is the best summary of the "What and why DO?" that I've found, and it's under $50 (disclaimer, a digital version is available from Pirate Bay).

Highly suggest reading it. It is a little heady; I was a dual major in philsophy so this is a turn on to me, but will be a turn off for some people.

 

[Goro]

It's an open secret that the majority of my students have applied MD first. I submit that instead of thinking that "oh they couldn't get into an MD school, it should be thought of similar to someone who goes to Drexel because they couldn't get into U Penn. A medical school is a medical school.

But a sizable number of my students have stats equal to matriculants in many MD schools, and they applied to both, and go here. For them, it was less a back-up than an alternative, just like picking, say, Drexel or Jefferson.

Still others like the DO philosophy and applied only here. A good number of them have high MD caliber stats and turned down MD schools to come here. others had medical problems that DOs fixed that MDs couldn't.

I was wondering why you all went/are going/aspiring for DO over MD?

Again, think of it as less of a backup and more as alternative choices. That, plus there's a lot of ignorance among pre-meds; the last bastion of anti-DO prejudice in our country. But it's changing. even in the pre-allo forum, I less more comraderie than a few years ago.

Also, why is the stigma of DO on SDN always DO should be used as a backup? I don't get it because MSUCOM is in the top 10 of Primary Care on US News. Anyone here want to shed some light on this situation? Because, IMHO, DOs and MDs should be looked at the same way as DDS's and DMD's in dental terms.

Will be good; this will open up more ACGME slots for DO grads. The AOA never would have agreed to this otherwise.
Also, the merger of the AOA and the ACGME good or bad for DOs?

 

[Promethean]

I think my biggest problem with this question is that my sincerest answer is: "Well, why not?"

I just don't see the need to justify choosing DO, as if MD were the default choice and DO is a variance that must be explained.. I get it that I need to be able to communicate intelligently about my reasons for picking a specific school, but my deeper reasons for DO are really just a reprise for my reasons for medicine. I feel like having to come up with reasons MD and DO are different and why one fits me better is like trying to describe the differences between two photos of the same object. The differences are minor and largely superficial, but I must strain to find them because that is what is being asked of me.

 

[studentp0x]

It's an open secret that the majority of my students have applied MD first. I submit that instead of thinking that "oh they couldn't get into an MD school, it should be thought of similar to someone who goes to Drexel because they couldn't get into U Penn. A medical school is a medical school.

But a sizable number of my students have stats equal to matriculants in many MD schools, and they applied to both, and go here. For them, it was less a back-up than an alternative, just like picking, say, Drexel or Jefferson.

Still others like the DO philosophy and applied only here. A good number of them have high MD caliber stats and turned down MD schools to come here. others had medical problems that DOs fixed that MDs couldn't.

I was wondering why you all went/are going/aspiring for DO over MD?

Again, think of it as less of a backup and more as alternative choices. That, plus there's a lot of ignorance among pre-meds; the last bastion of anti-DO prejudice in our country. But it's changing. even in the pre-allo forum, I less more comraderie than a few years ago.

Also, why is the stigma of DO on SDN always DO should be used as a backup? I don't get it because MSUCOM is in the top 10 of Primary Care on US News. Anyone here want to shed some light on this situation? Because, IMHO, DOs and MDs should be looked at the same way as DDS's and DMD's in dental terms.

Will be good; this will open up more ACGME slots for DO grads. The AOA never would have agreed to this otherwise.
Also, the merger of the AOA and the ACGME good or bad for DOs?

Do you give any sort of "favourtism" when looking at someone who's applying DO only?

 

[Goro]

It's hard to do because we don't see where other people are applying. Even if someone tells me "i'm only applying o DO schools, and has, say, UCSF stats, I still take it with a grain of salt. I am from NY, after all.

Do you give any sort of "favourtism" when looking at someone who's applying DO only?

 

[Promethean]

It's hard to do because we don't see where other people are applying. Even if someone tells me "i'm only applying o DO schools, and has, say, UCSF stats, I still take it with a grain of salt. I am from NY, after all.

I do wish there were a way to signal sincerity that couldn't be instantly adopted by all ruthless insincere applicants as a clever gambit.

 

[Goro]

This is just a gut thing, no biomarkers, but the insincere kids constantly tell us things they think we want to hear, as opposed to what we really want to hear.

And no, I can't tell you what they are.

I do wish there were a way to signal sincerity that couldn't be instantly adopted by all ruthless insincere applicants as a clever gambit.

 

[Promethean]

This is just a gut thing, no biomarkers, but the insincere kids constantly tell us things they think we want to hear, as opposed to what we really want to hear.

And no, I can't tell you what they are.

I get that. I'm sure that if you did, those would be the new things that everyone said. My personal plan is just to roll in and be myself. I'm pretty likable, I reckon. If that doesn't do the trick, I will develop a more cunning strategy for the next attempt.

 

[GUH]

To answer the OP, I applied to DO schools since I liked the idea of being good at palpation, I was largely interested in primary care, and I hold a fundamental belief that health is more than just the absence of measurable physical illness. I did not bother to apply MD because I realized that I would have more options of where to go if I applied to DO schools and I didn't want to fill out a second application when there is a good chance it wouldn't have gotten me in anywhere.

I am not convinced that the merger is a good thing for osteopathic medicine, and hope that the match outcomes in competitive specialties for DOs will be closely monitored.

Will be good; this will open up more ACGME slots for DO grads. The AOA never would have agreed to this otherwise.
Also, the merger of the AOA and the ACGME good or bad for DOs?

Why couldn't the AOA have agreed to it because they wanted to preserve access to fellowships? The AOA has never said that the merger MOU includes a provision to increase the number of ACGME slots open to DOs.

 

[Goro]

That would have simply maintained the status quo. The idea was to increase access. If I'm confused abut that, then so is my Dean and every member of our OMT/OPP Dep't.


Why couldn't the AOA have agreed to it because they wanted to preserve access to fellowships? The AOA has never said that the merger MOU includes a provision to increase the number of ACGME slots open to DOs.[/QUOTE]