Why DO?

[Taus]

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I do respect your position and your choice, but i gotta throw in the other side here too.

For many, it's about meeting your own expectations, living up to your own standards. It's not the stigma of a DO ascribed by the uninformed, but rather our own "inner critic", that incessantly taunts us. This drives many ppl into 3 or even 4 application cycles, (myself now 4 yrs out of undergrad) - all the time thinking "in the grand scheme, when i'm 50yrs old, I will not even remember these 3,4, or 5 years." For some the efforts are fruitful; For others, they must now begin to think about "back ups", but at least knowing they gave it their all. Whether these countless years spent trying to get in are successful or whether they force one into "back ups" - these are are still worthwhile years.

I apologize in advance...but I can't understand that mindset....you could be a Doctor in your first year of residency right now....

 

[Nate]

I do respect your position and your choice, but i gotta throw in the other side here too.

For many, it's about meeting your own expectations, living up to your own standards. It's not the stigma of a DO ascribed by the uninformed, but rather our own "inner critic", that incessantly taunts us. This drives many ppl into 3 or even 4 application cycles, (myself now 4 yrs out of undergrad) - all the time thinking "in the grand scheme, when i'm 50yrs old, I will not even remember these 3,4, or 5 years." For some the efforts are fruitful; For others, they must now begin to think about "back ups", but at least knowing they gave it their all. Whether these countless years spent trying to get in are successful or whether they force one into "back ups" - these are are still worthwhile years.

All that for two letters? I don't understand either... I had DO school as a "backup" but it was more like a second choice kind of thing, not something I would wait 4 years for. Are you going to re-apply four times if you don't get into your first choice residency program?

 

[xanthomondo]

Is anyone else concerned about the entering statistics of DO schools?

I think one of the reasons why such a bad stigma lays on the DO degree is because of the matriculant numbers...averages of 20-24 MCAT, 3.0-3.2 average GPA...what is up with that?

The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools

 

[OSUdoc08]

Is anyone else concerned about the entering statistics of DO schools?

I think one of the reasons why such a bad stigma lays on the DO degree is because of the matriculant numbers...averages of 20-24 MCAT, 3.0-3.2 average GPA...what is up with that?

The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools

1. Very few DO schools have those averages.

2. This statement: "The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools." Is completely false. You'll want to review schools statistics, such as TCOM and OSU-COM.

3. Is there a correlation between MCAT/GPA and clinical performance? I have found that they are often INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL in my experience. Book intelligence rarely equates to "street smarts."

 

[xanthomondo]

1. Very few DO schools have those averages.

2. This statement: "The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools." Is completely false. You'll want to review schools statistics, such as TCOM and OSU-COM.

3. Is there a correlation between MCAT/GPA and clinical performance? I have found that they are often INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL in my experience. Book intelligence rarely equates to "street smarts."

http://www.studentdoctor.net/ready/app/medstatistics.asp?iDO=Y&iSO=MC&cSU=SUBMIT&iST=&iCO=

On that site it says that the range of MCAT is 22-28, OSU being a 26...most of the MD schools are above a 28

I went to a PCOM presentation and she said that the average was a 3.2, 3.0 in science GPA for matriculants

I just think its strange that the best osteo schools have somewhat low entering statistics

 

[OSUdoc08]

http://www.studentdoctor.net/ready/app/medstatistics.asp?iDO=Y&iSO=MC&cSU=SUBMIT&iST=&iCO=

On that site it says that the range of MCAT is 22-28, OSU being a 26...most of the MD schools are above a 28

I went to a PCOM presentation and she said that the average was a 3.2, 3.0 in science GPA for matriculants

I just think its strange that the best osteo schools have somewhat low entering statistics

The key point that needs to be made is:

Most of the MD schools are above that, but not all. You earlier made a more broad statement which conflicts with your above admission:

"The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools"

which was clearly a false statement, based on comments in your own most recent post.

P.S. The site you gave me is not an official site, and the purported numbers may not be completely accurate.

 

[bbas]

http://www.studentdoctor.net/ready/app/medstatistics.asp?iDO=Y&iSO=MC&cSU=SUBMIT&iST=&iCO=

On that site it says that the range of MCAT is 22-28, OSU being a 26...most of the MD schools are above a 28

I went to a PCOM presentation and she said that the average was a 3.2, 3.0 in science GPA for matriculants

I just think its strange that the best osteo schools have somewhat low entering statistics

That seems a bit low for PCOM. On their website it says that the average GPA of matriculants is 3.45.

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

Is anyone else concerned about the entering statistics of DO schools?

I think one of the reasons why such a bad stigma lays on the DO degree is because of the matriculant numbers...averages of 20-24 MCAT, 3.0-3.2 average GPA...what is up with that?

The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools

Not sure if PCOM stands for Pikeville or Philidelphia, but from my research, they have an average MCAT score of 28 and 24.5 respectively and an average GPA of 3.5 and 3.4 respectively.

 

[CuttinEmUp]

Since that one poster wants to talk about the "grand scheme" of things....

Look people, in the grand scheme, your MCAT and GPA scores dont matter for ****. If you are practicing medicine (DO or MD) and applying for the same jobs and making the same money, and both are licensed in the US to treat fellow human beings to help heal and make people healthy, and you are being the BEST doctor you can be, then isnt that all that really matters???

I am applying to both MD and DO schools, Id love to get into an MD school, but believe me, if i get accepted into a good DO program, im going to have the same party and get just as drunk that night!!

I cant help but think that the increased GPA and inflated MCAT scores of MD schools compared to DO schools is more a function of natural selection occuring from a huge competitive applicant pool versus the MD schools being "harder" or "better" than DO by any means. I have an erie feeling that in a matter of years from now, DO stats will be much higher as more and more applicants turn to the DO route. Then eventually the two competing philosophies of medicine will have roughly equal entrance stats ( a kind of "equilibrium reaction" of MCAT and GPA) and the only distinction left that applicants will use to choose one over the other will be which philosophy of medicine they agree with and want to practice.

anyways, good luck to all my fellow applicants for 2007!!!

 

[EvoDoc]

Is anyone else concerned about the entering statistics of DO schools?

I think one of the reasons why such a bad stigma lays on the DO degree is because of the matriculant numbers...averages of 20-24 MCAT, 3.0-3.2 average GPA...what is up with that?

The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools

It is the ideology in statements like this that lead me to DO. I admittedly screwed around during my undergrad years -- too much partying and little-to-no studying. But, I also consider myself a smart person who wanted a second chance...OK, I am a f***ing genius! I am currently finishing my PhD in immunology, which makes me qualified (at least sometime in my future) to teach in med schools. All the MD schools to which I applied (8 of them, state and private) didn't even give me an interview. I assume it was because of my undergrad GPA, since others with my MCAT score were getting into MD schools. However, DO schools were more than willing to give me a chance (and yes, competition is still tough because I didn't get interviews from all the DO schools to which I applied).

Further, being a PhD student and teaching many undergraduate course, I am worried about some of the students that get into MD school...i.e. good at memorizing and regurgitating but couldn't think their way out of a paper bag.

So here is my $0.02: I feel that MD schools are too worried about their US News ranking and choose applicants based mainly on numbers (I realize this is a gross generalization, so don't rail against me). DO schools look at more than your grades/MCAT and, since they don't worry about rankings, are more concerned about admitting and educating quality doctors....or making money depending on which SDN thread you read.

Beyond that, all the stereotypical ideologies of osteopathic medicine appealed to me and I felt it would be a great fit. As always, the school you choose will be a very personal choice that no one else can make for you.

TUCOM-NV 2010

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

It is the ideology in statements like this that lead me to DO. I admittedly screwed around during my undergrad years -- too much partying and little-to-no studying. But, I also consider myself a smart person who wanted a second chance...OK, I am a f***ing genius! I am currently finishing my PhD in immunology, which makes me qualified (at least sometime in my future) to teach in med schools. All the MD schools to which I applied (8 of them, state and private) didn't even give me an interview. I assume it was because of my undergrad GPA, since others with my MCAT score were getting into MD schools. However, DO schools were more than willing to give me a chance (and yes, competition is still tough because I didn't get interviews from all the DO schools to which I applied).

Further, being a PhD student and teaching many undergraduate course, I am worried about some of the students that get into MD school...i.e. good at memorizing and regurgitating but couldn't think their way out of a paper bag.

So here is my $0.02: I feel that MD schools are too worried about their US News ranking and choose applicants based mainly on numbers (I realize this is a gross generalization, so don't rail against me). DO schools look at more than your grades/MCAT and, since they don't worry about rankings, are more concerned about admitting and educating quality doctors....or making money depending on which SDN thread you read.

Beyond that, all the stereotypical ideologies of osteopathic medicine appealed to me and I felt it would be a great fit. As always, the school you choose will be a very personal choice that no one else can make for you.

TUCOM-NV 2010

Congrats! TUCOM-NV will have a very competent med student.

 

[GatorsWearJorts]

1. Very few DO schools have those averages.

2. This statement: "The highest DO schools have worse numbers than the lowest (US) MD schools." Is completely false. You'll want to review schools statistics, such as TCOM and OSU-COM.

3. Is there a correlation between MCAT/GPA and clinical performance? I have found that they are often INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL in my experience. Book intelligence rarely equates to "street smarts."

Do "street smarts" correlate to high USMLE scores?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Do "street smarts" correlate to high USMLE scores?

Yes.

College GPA and MCAT score DO NOT correlate with med school GPA and board scores.

There are people who do extremely well in medical school who did poorly in college, and vice versa.

I spent most of my time studying in sports bars and minimal time in class, and made the best GPA this semester since middle school!

 

[xanthomondo]

Further, being a PhD student and teaching many undergraduate course, I am worried about some of the students that get into MD school...i.e. good at memorizing and regurgitating but couldn't think their way out of a paper bag.


TUCOM-NV 2010

Isn't the MCAT primarily a thinking test though?

 

[jjmack]

Yes.

College GPA and MCAT score DO NOT correlate with med school GPA and board scores.

There are people who do extremely well in medical school who did poorly in college, and vice versa.

I spent most of my time studying in sports bars and minimal time in class, and made the best GPA this semester since middle school!

that isn't true. College gpa and MCAT may not be good predictors of med school grades, but the MCAT is the best predictor of step 1 scores.

 

[D.O.Spot]

Hey guys,
I'm just wondering what your reasons are for getting a DO rather than an MD?

I am more interested in practicing primary care in a rural setting, and DO schools are the best in that regard. I am also very excited to offer OMT to my patients on top of traditional medical practices. The principles that Osteopathy was founded on also ispire me. It couldn't be a better fit for me.

 

[MoxieDO]

http://www.studentdoctor.net/ready/app/medstatistics.asp?iDO=Y&iSO=MC&cSU=SUBMIT&iST=&iCO=

On that site it says that the range of MCAT is 22-28, OSU being a 26...most of the MD schools are above a 28

I went to a PCOM presentation and she said that the average was a 3.2, 3.0 in science GPA for matriculants

I just think its strange that the best osteo schools have somewhat low entering statistics

Site is inaccurate with TCOM's entering numbers. Anywhoo, this years entering class has an avg. gpa of 3.6 and avg. MCAT of 28, which is higher/equal with most Texas schools and I am sure competative with out of state schools. The lines between DO and MD are getting very blurred, especially when top medical schools like Harvard are now exposing their students to OMT. As the applicant pool increase and more people learn about Osteopathic medicine, just as someone said before, their numbers will become more competative. With that said, only you can decide how great of a doctor you can be. Even as a DO, I forsee myself being highly competative and getting a top residency because I know I will make an excellent doctor. We are all going to be doctors and we should be more concerned with treating patients and not arguing about the letters behind our names.

PS. Your ignorance is showing.

 

[OSUdoc08]

that isn't true. College gpa and MCAT may not be good predictors of med school grades, but the MCAT is the best predictor of step 1 scores.

Do you have an evidenced based study on this?

It sounds like you are making a definitive blanket statement without backing it up.

 

[nvshelat]

Do you have an evidenced based study on this?

It sounds like you are making a definitive blanket statement without backing it up.

I'll jump in b/c I'm bored:

Acad Med. 2005 Oct;80(10):910-7. Related Articles, Links


Validity of the Medical College Admission Test for predicting medical school performance.

Julian ER.

Medical College Admission Test, Association of American Medical Colleges, 2450 N Street, N.W., Washington, DC 20037-1127, USA.

PURPOSE: Since the introduction of the revised Medical College Admission Test (MCAT(R)) in 1991, the Association of American Medical Colleges has been investigating the extent to which MCAT scores supplement the power of undergraduate grade point averages (uGPAs) to predict success in medical school. This report is a comprehensive summary of the relationships between MCAT scores and (1) medical school grades, (2) United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) Step scores, and (3) academic distinction or difficulty. METHOD: This study followed two cohorts from entrance to medical school through residency. Students from 14 medical schools' 1992 and 1993 entering classes provided data for predicting medical school grades and academic difficulty/distinction, while their peers from all of the U.S. medical schools were used to predict performance on USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3. Regression analyses assessed the predictive power of combinations of uGPAs, MCAT scores, and undergraduate-institution selectivity. RESULTS: Grades were best predicted by a combination of MCAT scores and uGPAs, with MCAT scores providing a substantial increment over uGPAs. MCAT scores were better predictors of USMLE Step scores than were uGPAs, and the combination did little better than MCAT scores alone. The probability of experiencing academic difficulty or distinction tended to vary with MCAT scores. MCAT scores were strong predictors of scores for all three Step examinations, particularly Step 1. CONCLUSIONS: MCAT scores almost double the proportion of variance in medical school grades explained by uGPAs, and essentially replace the need for uGPAs in their impressive prediction of Step scores. The MCAT performs well as an indicator of academic preparation for medical school, independent of the school-specific handicaps of uGPAs.

 

[scpod]

Do you have an evidenced based study on this?

It sounds like you are making a definitive blanket statement without backing it up.

Another study which was concentrating on methods of instruction as a variable in Step 1 prediction. They found some evidence that those with lower MCAT scores benefited somewhat with a "multidisciplinary format" (ie PBL) and those with higher MCAT scores did better with "general instruction." However, the overall conclusion was that "Overall, there is no significant difference in the school means of Step 1 total scores and pathology subscores of schools with different curricular approaches. This is most likely due to the finding that the students’ MCAT-bpv scores, and not curricular variables, are the major predictors of Step 1 scores, and all schools have a mix of students with various MCAT-bpv scores."

 

[GatorsWearJorts]

Another study which was concentrating on methods of instruction as a variable in Step 1 prediction. They found some evidence that those with lower MCAT scores benefited somewhat with a "multidisciplinary format" (ie PBL) and those with higher MCAT scores did better with "general instruction." However, the overall conclusion was that "Overall, there is no significant difference in the school means of Step 1 total scores and pathology subscores of schools with different curricular approaches. This is most likely due to the finding that the students’ MCAT-bpv scores, and not curricular variables, are the major predictors of Step 1 scores, and all schools have a mix of students with various MCAT-bpv scores."

Yeah, youd think if the MCAT wasnt a good predictor- then medical schools would have made a "street smarts" test by now.

 

[Nate]

I believe the MCAT is a good predictor not only because of analytical skills or whatever other intelligence factor it tests, but because it tests your persistence and work ethic. Everyone knows how important the MCAT is to their future, just as everyone will know how important step 1 is so if you are not willing to work on the MCAT well then there you have it.
However, I must admit that my work ethic and my ability to spend huge stretches of time studying have increased since I started med school in August. I did great on the MCAT but I bet if I had to do it again now I would do even better, not because of any material that I have learned but simply because of my refined study skills and endurance.
I have no clue what "street smarts" has to do with any of it though..

 

[GatorsWearJorts]

I believe the MCAT is a good predictor not only because of analytical skills or whatever other intelligence factor it tests, but because it tests your persistence and work ethic. Everyone knows how important the MCAT is to their future, just as everyone will know how important step 1 is so if you are not willing to work on the MCAT well then there you have it.
However, I must admit that my work ethic and my ability to spend huge stretches of time studying have increased since I started med school in August. I did great on the MCAT but I bet if I had to do it again now I would do even better, not because of any material that I have learned but simply because of my refined study skills and endurance.
I have no clue what "street smarts" has to do with any of it though..

Well said.

 

[st. pius v]

Since that one poster wants to talk about the "grand scheme" of things....

Look people, in the grand scheme, your MCAT and GPA scores dont matter for ****. If you are practicing medicine (DO or MD) and applying for the same jobs and making the same money, and both are licensed in the US to treat fellow human beings to help heal and make people healthy, and you are being the BEST doctor you can be, then isnt that all that really matters???

I am applying to both MD and DO schools, Id love to get into an MD school, but believe me, if i get accepted into a good DO program, im going to have the same party and get just as drunk that night!!

I cant help but think that the increased GPA and inflated MCAT scores of MD schools compared to DO schools is more a function of natural selection occuring from a huge competitive applicant pool versus the MD schools being "harder" or "better" than DO by any means. I have an erie feeling that in a matter of years from now, DO stats will be much higher as more and more applicants turn to the DO route. Then eventually the two competing philosophies of medicine will have roughly equal entrance stats ( a kind of "equilibrium reaction" of MCAT and GPA) and the only distinction left that applicants will use to choose one over the other will be which philosophy of medicine they agree with and want to practice.

anyways, good luck to all my fellow applicants for 2007!!!

the D.O applicant pool is slightly different from the M.D pool because of the applicants' mentality of lower stats = D.O school. However, the pattern is slowly changing. In a few years, the average stats. will be nearly identical owing to the fact that people will finally realized that D.O's=M.D's in all aspects. my stats are above average to most M.D state schools i applied but because i'm considered a "foreign student", i would have to be much more competitive or are not eligible. i was on the waitlist at uvm's M.D program last year cause i blew up the interview.
also, most D.O applicants are older and have already gone through one or more career before joining the fray. as such, they have less time to prepare for the mcat (due to full-time work/family) and also not as fresh in the sciences as are those who are still undergrads. and are more refined. just take a look at the avg. age of matriculants of D.O and M.D schools and compare.
D.O schools like to see a good balance to an individual whereas M.D schools typically like the academic smarts. i guess that's why D.O's are holistic in their approach because they look at the whole person rather than someone who can regurgitate information and do well in standardized test. also, check this out, fellas- one of the off-shore carribean medical schools has the best passing rate in USMLE surpassing M.D schools in the U.S and the highest scorer came from that school.

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

the D.O applicant pool is slightly different from the M.D pool because of the applicants' mentality of lower stats = D.O school. However, the pattern is slowly changing. In a few years, the average stats. will be nearly identical owing to the fact that people will finally realized that D.O's=M.D's in all aspects. my stats are above average to most M.D state schools i applied but because i'm considered a "foreign student", i would have to be much more competitive or are not eligible. i was on the waitlist at uvm's M.D program last year cause i blew up the interview.
also, most D.O applicants are older and have already gone through one or more career before joining the fray. as such, they have less time to prepare for the mcat (due to full-time work/family) and also not as fresh in the sciences as are those who are still undergrads. and are more refined. just take a look at the avg. age of matriculants of D.O and M.D schools and compare.
D.O schools like to see a good balance to an individual whereas M.D schools typically like the academic smarts. i guess that's why D.O's are holistic in their approach because they look at the whole person rather than someone who can regurgitate information and do well in standardized test. also, check this out, fellas- one of the off-shore carribean medical schools has the best passing rate in USMLE surpassing M.D schools in the U.S and the highest scorer came from that school.

Very interesting about the USMLE stats. Props to that school.

 

[Raven Feather]

I believe the MCAT is a good predictor not only because of analytical skills or whatever other intelligence factor it tests, but because it tests your persistence and work ethic. Everyone knows how important the MCAT is to their future, just as everyone will know how important step 1 is so if you are not willing to work on the MCAT well then there you have it.However, I must admit that my work ethic and my ability to spend huge stretches of time studying have increased since I started med school in August. I did great on the MCAT but I bet if I had to do it again now I would do even better, not because of any material that I have learned but simply because of my refined study skills and endurance.
I have no clue what "street smarts" has to do with any of it though..

You are right, everyone knows how imp. the MCAT is but not always does it reflect one's work ethic or persistence--I think in that regard a GPA over 4-5 years would better support that. Some people are better standardized test takers for many reasons not just based solely on analytical skills or intelligence. Some things people cannot change. There is a reason why those who are minorities and/or disadvantaged tend to score lower on the MCAT and I would bet a lot of it didn't have to do with work ethic, persistence, lack of intelligence etc.

But anyhow, this is thread is waay off topic now.

 

[scpod]

...the MCAT is but not always does it reflect one's work ethic or persistence--I think in that regard a GPA over 4-5 years would better support that.

I don't think it's work ethic, because I know tons of people who work extremely hard, but don't end up with good GPAs. Instead of work ethic or persistence, I think the way you study has a lot more to do with it. There are lots of people with great GPAs who study minimally, but do it "smartly." Face it, quite a lot of people have no idea how to study. It's not something that they teach in elementary or high school.

Also, there is a lot of "how to take tests" involved in getting good grades too. You can get good grades by studying the "right way" for an individual test-- you don't have to study the same way for a multiple choice test that you would a short answer or essay test. For example, if you know there's a word bank, then you only have to study well enough to recognize the answer. Memorizing all the answers and how to spell them would be a total waste of time.

On the other hand, if you actually wanted to learn the material, then studying for hours wouldn't seem like a waste of time, but your grade won't be any better than the other guy who spent just an hour and then went out for a beer.

 

[bbgirl]

I read somewhere on SDN recently--I don't know if it is true or not-- that the pass rates for the caribbean med school were such because how they let only those students who have high enough prep scores take the USMLE. Basically, weeding out those who aren't ready yet and who are more likely to fail.

 

[st. pius v]

I read somewhere on SDN recently--I don't know if it is true or not-- that the pass rates for the caribbean med school were such because how they let only those students who have high enough prep scores take the USMLE. Basically, weeding out those who aren't ready yet and who are more likely to fail.

that would not be true because one has to go through usmle step 1 before entering clinicals; if not, the medical program could not be recognized by the u.s department of education. well they could delay clinicals but that would not make it "right" since medical school is a four-year program and if one finishes in the 5th or 6th year, i bet that looks REAL good with residency programs....

 

[Nate]

You are right, everyone knows how imp. the MCAT is but not always does it reflect one's work ethic or persistence--I think in that regard a GPA over 4-5 years would better support that. Some people are better standardized test takers for many reasons not just based solely on analytical skills or intelligence. Some things people cannot change. There is a reason why those who are minorities and/or disadvantaged tend to score lower on the MCAT and I would bet a lot of it didn't have to do with work ethic, persistence, lack of intelligence etc.

But anyhow, this is thread is waay off topic now.

Did you forget that the Board Exams are standardized timed exams just like the MCAT? If you fail to do well on the MCAT because you "are not a good standardized test taker" what is to say that you will pass the boards? If it isn't work ethic and persistence but rather your ability to take tests then in that theory you will not get licensed anyway.

I think it is a combination of both however, work ethic and persistence along with the ability to do well on those types of exams. But as I hinted in my last post; medical school gets you trained for long study hours and builds endurance so even if you don’t do so well on the MCAT, chances are you can do well on the Boards. That only works though if the main qualities that get you through them are in fact work ethic and persistence. If in your theory it is true that people do not change and those who cannot take standardized tests will never be able to then med schools should never allow someone with low MCAT scores in because they are doomed to fail.

 

[Raven Feather]

Did you forget that the Board Exams are standardized timed exams just like the MCAT? If you fail to do well on the MCAT because you "are not a good standardized test taker" what is to say that you will pass the boards? If it isn't work ethic and persistence but rather your ability to take tests then in that theory you will not get licensed anyway.

I think it is a combination of both however, work ethic and persistence along with the ability to do well on those types of exams. But as I hinted in my last post; medical school gets you trained for long study hours and builds endurance so even if you don’t do so well on the MCAT, chances are you can do well on the Boards. That only works though if the main qualities that get you through them are in fact work ethic and persistence. If in your theory it is true that people do not change and those who cannot take standardized tests will never be able to then med schools should never allow someone with low MCAT scores in because they are doomed to fail.

No, I did not forget about boards-- and you made a good point but I think one, with the proper prep, which may not be the norm prep that others have used to do well, they could make their scores better/better prepared. As far as things that do not change, for example, during the prepping period for the MCAT, it one has to hold down 2 jobs, go to school just to survive and on top of that come from one of the above backgrounds (or not) that can't change until say, they would already be in medschool living on loans. But the problem for these people is getting there. I never said that those who cannot take standardized tests would never be able to--you extrapolated.

But, I also don't expect most people to understand as most of the people here and everywhere who have applied/ are applying to med school did not come from/aren't from these backgrounds.

How does one rationalize that someone who has a 4.0, who studied their arse off, let us say even took a prep course and did what they were supposed to and still received a less than average score?

How about this: If the majority of DO schools accept people with "low" MCAT scores, why is it that the vast majority of them pass the COMLEX the first time around? Why do the majority who take the USMLE pass?

Just food for thought.

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

No, I did not forget about boards-- and you made a good point but I think one, with the proper prep, which may not be the norm prep that others have used to do well, they could make their scores better/better prepared. As far as things that do not change, for example, during the prepping period for the MCAT, it one has to hold down 2 jobs, go to school just to survive and on top of that come from one of the above backgrounds (or not) that can't change until say, they would already be in medschool living on loans. But the problem for these people is getting there. I never said that those who cannot take standardized tests would never be able to--you extrapolated.

But, I also don't expect most people to understand as most of the people here and everywhere who have applied/ are applying to med school did not come from/aren't from these backgrounds.

How does one rationalize that someone who has a 4.0, who studied their arse off, let us say even took a prep course and did what they were supposed to and still received a less than average score?

How about this: If the majority of DO schools accept people with "low" MCAT scores, why is it that the vast majority of them pass the COMLEX the first time around? Why do the majority who take the USMLE pass?

Just food for thought.

That's why applying to med school is an investment time=money. Whether you invest in a prep course or study your ass off by yourself, its still $$$

 

[Raven Feather]

That's why applying to med school is an investment time=money. Whether you invest in a prep course or study your ass off by yourself, its still $$$

That is assuming you 1) have the money or credit to do so 2) that one realistically has time. Some folks don't have the luxury of taking off months off work (or even weeks), they have to survive and may not have the luxury of living off other people.

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

That is assuming you 1) have the money or credit to do so 2) that one realistically has time. Some folks don't have the luxury of taking off months off work (or even weeks), they have to survive and may not have the luxury of living off other people.

Duely noted. However, I don't find applying to a few schools as being reasonable. Your chances increase as you apply to a broader range of schools. Well...unless you have stellar scores (among other factors). I know of students who have applied to five schools and have gotten into four out of those five schools if not all of them. So, it has to do with your candidacy also. I should have clarified that.

 

[lee9786]

I'm really thinking DO is something I should be focusing on as well. At 35, I'm definitely a non-trad student. I have a bachelor's in Nutrition Science and for years I was Pre-Physical Therapy. I think the personality fits me better.

With a 3.69 Cum and 3.92 sci GPA (scheduled to take the MCAT September 1). I wonder if I could get an application submitted this year to start in the Fall of 2017.

 

[lee9786]

I'm getting to the point where I like the lower GPAs and MCAT scores about DO schools. One's GPA certainly doesn't give the best picture of how a Physician is going to perform. I have a good GPA. I've killed my science courses. Not only got an 'A' but was consistently one of the top performers. It shows one is a dedicated student. I love to learn, and love to teach. One's GPA is only part of the larger picture.

When I was in Nutrition classes, I'd lead in the formation of a study lab. We'd meet in the Library and go over fun stuff like the biochem of the Kreb cycle. We had a blast learning the stuff together, and we did well in the class.

I don't care for the ultra competitive atmosphere where one is pushing another down to get ahead. I find that is a terrible personality trait and a sad thing to see someone training to be a Physician to do. I'm all about helping people and building them up. It seems that DO school in general supports that type of environment. I have the feeling a lot of MD schools are more cut throat as people are gunning for the high paid specialties.

I picture a bunch of young people with little life experience absorbed in self throughout MD School. Probably a gross overgeneralization and bias. I'm sure there's some of this with both degrees. I really thrive in a collaborative environment and I like to help others thrive.

I currently am a student tutor for our local college. I love helping people understand the material! The best way to learn is to teach. I have to find a good school with a collaborative mindset.

 

[JB50]

This thread is 11 years old guys.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I swear SDN had some pretty awesome posters back in the day, I especially like the second one (just below OP).