Why does everyone say med school is expensive?

[JustAPhD]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I mean, technically if you aren't paying interest that is saving some money? Otherwise, I don't know where those calculations are coming from

Yeah I agree about the interest. I wasn't trying to poke fun at the poster, was just generally curious.

 

[Mansamusa]

Yeah I agree about the interest. I wasn't trying to poke fun at the poster, was just generally curious.

I'm curious too because that is the only savings I could think of. I actually think option 1) makes little financial sense since tuition is inflating so much. The ~best~ thing to do would be to save money from the child's birth, pay for their schooling, and have them repay you with no (or very little) interest. And then they do the same with their kids. (And then invest the savings so that it grows while the kid grows up)

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I'm curious too because that is the only savings I could think of. I actually think option 1) makes little financial sense since tuition is inflating so much. The ~best~ thing to do would be to save money from the child's birth, pay for their schooling, and have them repay you with no (or very little) interest. And then they do the same with their kids. (And then invest the savings so that it grows while the kid grows up)

This is what a 529 college savings plan is. It's basically an IRA for your kid's college and is fully tax exempt for the parent.

 

[TXDOCMOM]

This is what a 529 college savings plan is. It's basically an IRA for your kid's college and is fully tax exempt for the parent.

A 529 is not fully tax exempt for the parents. The 529 plan is funded with after tax dollars. The earnings are exempt if used for qualified higher education expenses.

 

[TehTeddy]

I see I've stirred quite the pot. I'll try to answer everyone that replied as best I can.

In regards to how I'm calculating saving money in the long run, I'm primarily thinking of it in terms of a few sources. One is the interest that accrues over time as a result of taking out a loan. The other is the time saved by being able to go into a given career without needed to save money for schooling (for example, a couple gap years taken to save money would equal two years of a physician's salary). Thirdly, I am also considering the opportunities and better marks (grades, other tests) someone who receives support would be able to afford or have time for. For example, not having to work and thus being able to focus exclusively on school or related activities.

@Mansamusa I think that's a viable model as well, but the ideas are essentially similar to model 1 I've described.

In reply to @Affiche no I don't think it's unreasonable to expect familial contributions if you do the same in turn. What is wrong with the model I've described? Because each person doesn't start from scratch? I think it makes financial sense. Please spare the "entitled/brat/spoiled" name calling if you can.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

A 529 is not fully tax exempt for the parents. The 529 plan is funded with after tax dollars. The earnings are exempt if used for qualified higher education expenses.

Sorry I should have been more clear, the earnings are tax free and in 35 states and DC, contributions are either fully or partially deductible at the state level. Thanks for pointing that out TXDOCMOM. I was just trying to type quickly and avoid diving too deep into it.

 

[mcatjelly]

This is what pisses people off. Adults aren't entitled to their parents' money just because they have it. You're an adult ffs, start taking care of yourself and let your poor parents enjoy the money they've earned.

Seriously! I'm very much upper-middle class and my parents paid for 90% of my college tuition + board, but I've worked every summer since I turned 15 and could get a work permit, and then every winter break in college. Also worked part-time during the academic year. I wanted to be able to pay for myself when I went out with friends without having to ask for money, and then a few thousand went to my tuition/board. My parents paid for 100% of their higher and graduate education and I never even considered doing otherwise for myself, including medical school.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Thirdly, I am also considering the opportunities and better marks (grades, other tests) someone who receives support would be able to afford or have time for. For example, not having to work and thus being able to focus exclusively on school or related activities.

But that's making the argument that having a job means you'll do poorly.

The other is the time saved by being able to go into a given career without needed to save money for schooling (for example, a couple gap years taken to save money would equal two years of a physician's salary).

You need to clarify that argument because I don't follow your logic.

 

[mehc012]

But that's making the argument that having a job means you'll do poorly.

You need to clarify that argument because I don't follow your logic.

I believe it's in reference to another poster who stated that they were taking some time off before med school to save up for it. Yes, that plan eliminates some loan burden and interest, but it's at the cost of an attending's salary (theoretically...I've always thought that the entire premise that people all work up to a fixed age and then BOOM that's it was silly).

 

[Mansamusa]

But that's making the argument that having a job means you'll do poorly.

You need to clarify that argument because I don't follow your logic.

It's also assuming that the job doesn't significantly help your career. I only had my job for the past 2 yrs because of the research jobs I held in undergrad and basically all my med school ECs came from jobs during school (teaching, TA, research, etc.). Many of the college grads who are unemployed are so because they did acquire useful job skills during school

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Moral of the story, there's no one-size-fits-all approach to paying for school, be it undergrad or post-grad. Best options are not only economic, but also non-economic and depend heavily on various factors including personal preference.

 

[InvestingDoc]

Is it really? Their tuition according to MSAR seems comparable to undergrad schools. Why do people stress about loans? For an applicant with no undergrad loans, is it still stressful financially? I feel like I'm missing something…also, if your parents offer to pay but are each earning ~90K per year, will it still be hard to pay for the entire med school without any loans? I'm asking because I honestly don't know much about taxes and how it works :/

If your parents are welling to pay for your education then you are very lucky.

The problem is not only loans, which on average for 2015 was about $190k at graduation. Its also the interest that is accrued during residency and opportunity costs. Many people choose to enter into an income based repayment plan which, if the debt load is high enough, does not even cover the interest. So the average resident after lets say 4 years of residency with $200k going in is now maybe $250 to $275k in debt depending on repayment plan. So now upon graduation of residency you own about 75k more just in interest alone. Keep in mind that during this whole time while in school and during residency most people are not contributing at all or maxing out retirement accounts. There is a huge opportunity cost to becoming a doctor. It still ends up being worth it for many in the end, but you lose basically any investing and net worth building of your 20's. Physicians then spend their 30's and sometimes into their 40's paying off the debt accrued during their 20's, potentially delaying savings yet more.

So to answer your question OP, its not just the money, its the time, the lack of taking advantage of tax deferred accounts and compounding interest. Its also delaying life even more such as buying a house because of the high level of student debt. I am a new graduate starting to aggressively attack my debt and started writing about it so this debate is something that is currently very real for me. I posted about the average debt of physicians here if you're interested. http://investingdoc.com/average-amount-of-debt-for-graduating-doctors/

 

[Mansamusa]

.

 

[freak7]

This is what a 529 college savings plan is. It's basically an IRA for your kid's college and is fully tax exempt for the parent.

I saw 529 and thought "dang, what an impressive MCAT score. I've never seen one that high."

... Time for my coffee I guess

 

[y123]

Is it really? Their tuition according to MSAR seems comparable to undergrad schools. Why do people stress about loans? For an applicant with no undergrad loans, is it still stressful financially? I feel like I'm missing something…also, if your parents offer to pay but are each earning ~90K per year, will it still be hard to pay for the entire med school without any loans? I'm asking because I honestly don't know much about taxes and how it works :/

If your parents make $180k a year, and you are an only child, and they have no other debt at all, such as home mortgage, you probably won't even need a student loan.

 

[Monkey.King]

This is what pisses people off. Adults aren't entitled to their parents' money just because they have it. You're an adult ffs, start taking care of yourself and let your poor parents enjoy the money they've earned.

Both of her parents make 90-100k per year. Poor my ass

Tell me OP, how does it feel to be so privileged you don't even realize how priveleged you are? Grown adult never paid for anything in their life and doesn't understand one of the most important financial things to know in this country. Meanwhile I'm not a legal adult working 3 jobs, 7 days a week. Life is just too cruel

 

[Pusheen]

OP mentioned that they are from an immigrant family, paying for grown kid's college/grad school is way more common and expected outside the US than here. Education is cheaper and student loans aren't as easy to come by elsewhere, so parents often pick up responsibility for education.

I'm as bitter as anyone about being poor, but I don't think OP meant to sound stuck up

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Meanwhile I'm not a legal adult working 3 jobs, 7 days a week. Life is just too cruel

Sounds like you don't have enough money to buy all the sour grapes you've been eating. OP didn't choose the parents she had. She came here searching for answers, not rubbing in her wealth. A lot of us have had financial struggles, but being bitter about it isn't the answer.

 

[Affiche]

In reply to @Affiche no I don't think it's unreasonable to expect familial contributions if you do the same in turn. What is wrong with the model I've described? Because each person doesn't start from scratch? I think it makes financial sense. Please spare the "entitled/brat/spoiled" name calling if you can.

Expecting someone else to pay your bills when you're an adult is unreasonable and entitled. Own it.

Both of her parents make 90-100k per year. Poor my ass

Tell me OP, how does it feel to be so privileged you don't even realize how priveleged you are? Grown adult never paid for anything in their life and doesn't understand one of the most important financial things to know in this country. Meanwhile I'm not a legal adult working 3 jobs, 7 days a week. Life is just too cruel

There are plenty of people here who were/are more disadvantaged than you are. Save the bitterness for another time. I called them those "poor parents" because I genuinely feel sorry for any parent with an adult child who still expects a free ride in life.

 

[tskbdmnd]

This is why you gotta teach kids the value of a dollar.

 

[Mansamusa]

In reply to @Affiche no I don't think it's unreasonable to expect familial contributions if you do the same in turn. What is wrong with the model I've described? Because each person doesn't start from scratch? I think it makes financial sense. Please spare the "entitled/brat/spoiled" name calling if you can.

The definition of expect: look for (something) from someone as rightfully due or requisite in the circumstances -or- require (someone) to fulfill an obligation.

That's where people draw issue. You don't have a right to your parents money and they don't have an obligation to support their adult offspring.

If your parents are rich and pay your bills, you are fortunate and should appreciate it.

If you expect them to pay your bills that means you believe they somehow owe you, you deserve it, they are obligated to help you, that it would be immoral/wrong of them to not give you that money, etc and that would make you entitled

 

[Monkey.King]

Expecting someone else to pay your bills when you're an adult is unreasonable and entitled. Own it.

There are plenty of people here who were/are more disadvantaged than you are. Save the bitterness for another time. I called them those "poor parents" because I genuinely feel sorry for any parent with an adult child who still expects a free ride in life.

Of course there are plenty of people more disadvantaged than me. I never said I was disadvantaged. I added that in for emphasis. I'm just saying how easy OP has it and how crazy it is that anyone could be as naive as to think medical school isn't expensive. A simple google search on anything financially related to paying for medical school could show that. And sorry, I misread the context of "poor".

Sounds like you don't have enough money to buy all the sour grapes you've been eating. OP didn't choose the parents she had. She came here searching for answers, not rubbing in her wealth. A lot of us have had financial struggles, but being bitter about it isn't the answer.

You sure? Either you're wrong or we found another user allergic to google. Any form of Google search regarding the expenses of medical school wouldve showed her the answer to that crazy question.

How did I get the grapes if I don't have enough money to buy them? And what am I being bitter about? Those 3 jobs will give me the money I need. It's better than no money at all. And those grapes will taste sweet when I buy all of those things knowing I earned every single penny on my own.

But you're right. These 3 jobs ain't cutting it. Want to give me a 0% interest loan to have more money to buy the grapes? I like the big plump green grapes.

 

[Akewataru]

Is this state Texas? lol if not, which state is it?

Nope, if I had more family there I would consider moving there.

South Carolina?

They had one of the best deals I've ever see. Even OOS students could establish IS residency after the first year and pay the ~$22000 tuition after that. Plus that thing where they pay you to stay in the state after school.

So close. North Carolina! Tuition for UNC-Chapel Hill is $21,837, and East Carolina University is $20,934 with a cost of attendance around $50,000 on average for both schools. That $14,000 from the state will come in handy.

 

[TehTeddy]

If Couple #1 pay for 4 years of tuition at $17k/year, that's a $68K investment on their part. If instead, they had invested that into their retirement with a reasonable rate of return of 6%, they are looking at a loss of around $150,000 in their retirement portfolio.

I did not consider the investing possibility, but even still wouldn't it need to be the case that the return on investment from the $68K would have to be greater than:
1) The sum of the interest from a student loan of $68K taken out.
2) Potential money lost through either postponing entry into a career or missing other career-building opportunities, resulting in less money in the short-term.

Otherwise, it would make more sense for the parent to invest in education. Note that this is not actually assuming the child is more deserving than the parent, because the parent (or child) is both a recipient and parent. In other words, they would receive investment and give it. To clarify my last statement you asked about, I'm referring to someone who may have to go to school and work part time, or turn down opportunities in order to have more time to work.

This of course ignores the benefits of being independent earlier, which would vary depending on the person... I know a lot of privileged people, but primarily one that really acts like it. In that case dropping support and maybe a couple years of military service would do more good than anything.

Anyways~~~ I'll agree with your last post that paying for education isn't a one-size-fits-all approach and a variety of models can work depending on the family.


@Affiche Would you consider undergraduate tuition in that umbrella as well, or just post-grad? If a family follows the pay-it-forward scheme I don't see why expecting assistance is unreasonable. If it doesn't work that way it might be. I come from a culture that involves lots of extended family living together (think east European/Asian) with heavy support to one another, so I think the standards are different. Not to say I don't think the more individualistic approach has its pluses.

For example, some students from American/western European families I've met are expected to pay rent to live in their house after a certain age. Usually the rent is not very high, but it is rent nonetheless.
In my family (including extended cousins) and culture this is unheard of and I was actually quite shocked.
Genuinely asking- is this common? I've only heard it from a couple people thus far.

 

[NotYou20]

This is why you gotta teach kids the value of a dollar.

That, how to do basic math, and how to use Google. Seriously op this is pretty easy stuff to figure out

 

[Affiche]

I did not consider the investing possibility, but even still wouldn't it need to be the case that the return on investment from the $68K would have to be greater than:
1) The sum of the interest from a student loan of $68K taken out.
2) Potential money lost through either postponing entry into a career or missing other career-building opportunities, resulting in less money in the short-term.

Otherwise, it would make more sense for the parent to invest in education. Note that this is not actually assuming the child is more deserving than the parent, because the parent (or child) is both a recipient and parent. In other words, they would receive investment and give it. To clarify my last statement you asked about, I'm referring to someone who may have to go to school and work part time, or turn down opportunities in order to have more time to work.

This of course ignores the benefits of being independent earlier, which would vary depending on the person... I know a lot of privileged people, but primarily one that really acts like it. In that case dropping support and maybe a couple years of military service would do more good than anything.

Anyways~~~ I'll agree with your last post that paying for education isn't a one-size-fits-all approach and a variety of models can work depending on the family.


@Affiche Would you consider undergraduate tuition in that umbrella as well, or just post-grad? If a family follows the pay-it-forward scheme I don't see why expecting assistance is unreasonable. If it doesn't work that way it might be. I come from a culture that involves lots of extended family living together (think east European/Asian) with heavy support to one another, so I think the standards are different. Not to say I don't think the more individualistic approach has its pluses.

For example, some students from American/western European families I've met are expected to pay rent to live in their house after a certain age. Usually the rent is not very high, but it is rent nonetheless.
In my family (including extended cousins) and culture this is unheard of and I was actually quite shocked.
Genuinely asking- is this common? I've only heard it from a couple people thus far.

My family is Eastern European so I'm familiar with the cultural perspective you're referencing, but I still disagree. I think an adult expecting money from their parents isn't okay, but hoping for it and offering a deal to pay them back is fine.

 

[mehc012]

My family is Eastern European so I'm familiar with the cultural perspective you're referencing, but I still disagree. I think an adult expecting money from their parents isn't okay, but hoping for it and offering a deal to pay them back is fine.

Yeah, I think the difference between "expect" and "think it's likely due to family tradition" is key, but English isn't always very precise.

 

[dpmd]

I did not consider the investing possibility, but even still wouldn't it need to be the case that the return on investment from the $68K would have to be greater than:
1) The sum of the interest from a student loan of $68K taken out.
2) Potential money lost through either postponing entry into a career or missing other career-building opportunities, resulting in less money in the short-term.

Otherwise, it would make more sense for the parent to invest in education. Note that this is not actually assuming the child is more deserving than the parent, because the parent (or child) is both a recipient and parent. In other words, they would receive investment and give it. To clarify my last statement you asked about, I'm referring to someone who may have to go to school and work part time, or turn down opportunities in order to have more time to work.

This of course ignores the benefits of being independent earlier, which would vary depending on the person... I know a lot of privileged people, but primarily one that really acts like it. In that case dropping support and maybe a couple years of military service would do more good than anything.

Anyways~~~ I'll agree with your last post that paying for education isn't a one-size-fits-all approach and a variety of models can work depending on the family.


@Affiche Would you consider undergraduate tuition in that umbrella as well, or just post-grad? If a family follows the pay-it-forward scheme I don't see why expecting assistance is unreasonable. If it doesn't work that way it might be. I come from a culture that involves lots of extended family living together (think east European/Asian) with heavy support to one another, so I think the standards are different. Not to say I don't think the more individualistic approach has its pluses.

For example, some students from American/western European families I've met are expected to pay rent to live in their house after a certain age. Usually the rent is not very high, but it is rent nonetheless.
In my family (including extended cousins) and culture this is unheard of and I was actually quite shocked.
Genuinely asking- is this common? I've only heard it from a couple people thus far.

You are lumping everyone in the family together for your hypothetical, but if you look at the people individually your parents don't have to take into account delay into ultimate career field or your loan interest. What they do have to take into account is what they have for retirement (because student loans are easier to get than loans in retirement) and what they want to do (maybe they would prefer to do some traveling rather than give you their money or maybe helping you is the thing that pleases them most).

Now, investment growth is generally like compound interest while student loans are simple interest so if both have the same rate (one positive and ine negative) then investing will actually be best if the goal is maximal family wealth. Especially given the fact that there are loan repayment and loan forgiveness progams out there.

Calculating the cost of delay is trickier because sometimes working is going to help the person reach their ultimate goals in ways besides the money (making their application unique or building the kind of discipline that helps them succeed at their studies). With the availability of loans i would say that anyone delaying entry for work is making that decision for nonfinancial reasons (unless there are specific barriers to obtaining loans).

Regardless i think the issue is with expectations. I think there is a difference in knowing what the traditions are and feeling entitled to them continuing. For example when i got married i knew that as a woman my family was expected to pay for it, however until we discussed things and they said what they could pay I didn't know if they would. Had they not offered an amount i would have asked if they wanted to help with expenses and taken no for an answer graciously.

 

[Affiche]

I think it depends on the situation. My parents paid for both of my sibling's undergraduate educations. They didn't have to pay for me, however, because I was fortunate enough to receive a full athletic scholarship. They thought it was only fair that they contribute something to my med school education then, which they've decided to do by paying my interest on my loans.

I'm not sure I see your point. I don't believe adult children are entitled to their parents' money, so I feel that expecting it is in poor taste. If they decide to contribute then great, but in no way are they obligated to and thus it shouldn't ever be expected.

 

[Controlthemoment]

I think the interest rates charged on student loans is grossly unfair! I've been working on farms since I was 12 and have saved close to 18k in my savings account. The bank pays me .01%. My annual interest earned can't even buy a decent lunch!

So when I go to get a student loan for my professional school costs they will charge me 6.8%? Talk about "triggers"!

I understand the bank has operating costs, risk and so on. But really...smh.

 

[Affiche]

I agree with you children aren't entitled to their parents' money, I misunderstood what you originally said. However, I think it's worth noting that just because a child is legally an adult, it doesn't make them financially independent (i.e. a 20 year old college student applying to medical school).

That's the issue- that children become legal adults expect to still be financially dependent on their parents.

 

[TheStallion16]

That's the issue- that children become legal adults expect to still be financially dependent on their parents.

I mean what is the difference between a 20-year-old "legal adult" college student applying to med school and a 17-year-old applying to college from a financial standpoint? Sure, I'm technically an adult, but I still recognize the fact that I need my parents' help to get to where I want to go. This might be just me, but my personal view is that you have a moral responsibility to support your family if they need it and if you have the means.

 

[Affiche]

I mean what is the difference between a 20-year-old "legal adult" college student applying to med school and a 17-year-old applying to college from a financial standpoint? Sure, I'm technically an adult, but I still recognize the fact that I need my parents' help to get to where I want to go. This might be just me, but my personal view is that you have a moral responsibility to support your family if they need it and if you have the means.

Because at 20 years old you're perfectly capable of getting a job and supporting yourself. Expecting your parents to float you because you'd rather not work to support yourself isn't fair to your parents and shouldn't be expected.

At 17, as a high school student, your responsibility is to sit your butt in class during the day and your parents are legally obligated to provide for you.

 

[TheStallion16]

Because at 20 years old you're perfectly capable of getting a job and supporting yourself. Expecting your parents to float you because you'd rather not work to support yourself isn't fair to your parents and shouldn't be expected.

At 17, as a high school student, your responsibility is to sit your butt in class during the day and your parents are legally obligated to provide for you.

Expecting your parents to "float you" is completely different from asking them for some assistance and support at a time in your life when you could really use it. By your logic I should just kick my future kids out of the house the day they turn 18 and say "have a nice life! you're no longer my problem from a legal view!"

 

[Affiche]

Expecting your parents to "float you" is completely different from asking them for some assistance and support at a time in your life when you could really use it. By your logic I should just kick my future kids out of the house the day they turn 18 and say "have a nice life! you're no longer my problem from a legal view!"

Grow up. From my view, juniors/seniors in high school should work a part time job for spending money and learn to save some of it. They should work through college (like I did) and expect to be financially independent. If parents decide to continue helping out their adult children, that's generous of them, but it certainly shouldn't be expected. You're an adult. Time to start acting like it.

 

[Affiche]

Sheesh, I feel sorry for your kids. The classic "if I worked through college you should have to too" argument. Very ignorant to other situations in which that isn't always possible. Not everyone fits the mold.

Lol.

 

[moisne]

This has to be a troll... It's pretty successful haha.

"Why is 200-400k over 4 years expensive? Oh I'm so naive you don't need to tell me. Look how entitled I am - yes I'm aware of it - you don't need to tell me"

A middle school kid could explain this concept to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[dpmd]

Look no one is saying it is bad to be in a position where you ask your parents for help paying for college. The bad thing we are talking about is the idea that you are judging your parents negatively if they choose not to do so and instead make you get loans for whatever reason. I think it is a great thing if parents help their kids out when possible and they should expect their child to be grateful.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I think the interest rates charged on student loans is grossly unfair! I've been working on farms since I was 12 and have saved close to 18k in my savings account. The bank pays me .01%. My annual interest earned can't even buy a decent lunch!

So when I go to get a student loan for my professional school costs they will charge me 6.8%? Talk about "triggers"!

I did not consider the investing possibility, but even still wouldn't it need to be the case that the return on investment from the $68K would have to be greater than:
1) The sum of the interest from a student loan of $68K taken out.

You both speak with a level of naiveté that comes from not having practical applications with finance. And that's not your fault.

@Controlthemoment:

No one uses a savings account as their primary retirement savings. A savings account is for short term savings and/or an emergency fund. An emergency fund should typically be around 4-6x your monthly fixed costs. For you, if you were entering the workforce and your fixes costs were $2000/month (rent, utilities, car payment/insurance, etc), then of that $18K, you should keep about $12K of if for emergencies. The rest can be used to save for a trip or invest.

The reason you have a terrible interest rate on your savings is that the money is just sitting there. You are just saying to the bank, "hey, hold on to this for me." and the bank is like sure, but we're actually going to move that money around to assist other banking members, and for your troubles, here's a marginal interest.

Your parent's retirement investments are not put into interest yielding accounts but put in to mutual funds, bonds, annuities, etc. Things that grow with (or hopefully better than) inflation. You save $100K today under your mattress and in 20 years it'll only be worth $80K.

@TehTeddy

As @dpmd said, interest is calculated differently for loans and investments. When you take out an unsubsidized loan or go into deferment, you accrue interest based on the principle of the loan at that time. When you go into repayment, that interest is then added to the principle and becomes your new principle. This is capitalization. But for investments, the interest compounds. These vary from monthly, quarterly, or yearly. But even with annual compounding, you earn more interest off the interest on the previous year. So while those early years may not show a marginally higher ROI, because the growth is exponential, that return over 20 years is 65% greater. It also says nothing of the fact that Direct undergrad loan interest rates are currently at 3.76%. while most index funds, mutual funds, ETFs etc that you many invest in should conservatively grow at 6%.


Sorry if this isn't news to either of you, but as with every student I've advised on the matter, it's better to be safe than sorry. Unless you've already studied finance, I suggest every undergrad take the time and credit hours and do an Intro to Finance course. Undergrad and Medical school loan debt average $20K and $170K meaning you're going to staring down the barrel of potentially $200K worth of educational debt. Just like everything you're doing to prepare for applying, preparing for your financial future is key.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

The MSAR is probably also advertising the tuition for 1st/2nd year when you aren't also on the hook for a summer semester.