Why does it seem there are way more MD orthopaedists than DO?

[Luelinks]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I shadowed a phenomenal MD orthopaedic surgeon this afternoon. However, since I am perfectly content with going the DO route, it just appears that MD outnumbers DO ortho-surgeons by probably at least 80/20.

Are ortho-surg DOs uncommon? Or are they difficult to gain residency in? What is the scoop with this specialty in the DO world?

Thanks.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Because there are more MDs than DOs. And there are more MD residencies than DO residencies.

 

[Luelinks]

So the relative proportions of (Orthos/MDs) to (Orthos/DOs) should be similar is what you're hypothesizing?

 

[Total180]

I believe that is what he is hypothesizing, yes. haha. Ortho is actually a very common specialty coming out of DO schools. However, most of them go into DO residencies because the MD residencies are pretty competitive...and there just aren't a TON of ortho residencies, although there really are more than you would think.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I believe that is what he is hypothesizing, yes. haha. Ortho is actually a very common specialty coming out of DO schools. However, most of them go into DO residencies because the MD residencies are pretty competitive...and there just aren't a TON of ortho residencies, although there really are more than you would think.

I'm interested why you think so.

 

[Luelinks]

I'm interested why you think so.

+1, would not have thought that. Ah, I would love to be a DO ortho.

 

[Dissected]

If you are dead set on ortho, the MD route would probably serve you better.You certainly can match as a DO though.


Some numbers to chew on:

There are ~90 spots in DO ortho programs every year

There are ~3300 DO graduates every year (this number is rising)

This is roughly a 37:1 ratio. There were 1.44 applicants per seat in 2009.



There are >16,000 MD graduates every year (this number is also rising)

There are ~670 spots in MD ortho programs every year

This is roughly a 24:1 ratio. There were 1.5 applicants per seat in 2011 (keep in mind this includes all DO, IMG, and FMG applicants as well who are far less successful than US allopathic seniors).



Of note: 2 Osteopathic graduates matched into an MD program in 2011

 

[I4GOTMYWATCHINU]

Everything the above poster said is very true but if you look at the number of those who applied vs. the number of those who got in for AOA ortho, it looks a little better especially considering how self selecting the field looks (See page 7 of the PDF link)

http://data.aacom.org/media/DO_GME_match_2009.pdf

If you are dead set on ortho, the MD route would probably serve you better.You certainly can match as a DO though.
Some numbers to chew on:

There are ~90 spots in DO ortho programs every year

There are ~3300 DO graduates every year (this number is rising)

This is roughly a 37:1 ratio. There were 1.44 applicants per seat in 2009.

There are >16,000 MD graduates every year (this number is also rising)

There are ~670 spots in MD ortho programs every year

This is roughly a 24:1 ratio. There were 1.5 applicants per seat in 2011 (keep in mind this includes all DO, IMG, and FMG applicants as well who are far less successful than US allopathic seniors).
Of note: 2 Osteopathic graduates matched into an MD program in 2011

 

[group_theory]

If you are dead set on ortho, the MD route would probably serve you better.You certainly can match as a DO though.

Disagree. Goal is to become an orthopedic surgeon. Either route (MD or DO) would get you there.

If you are interested in ortho, you apply to both DO and MD programs. Obviously the DO programs are more friendly to DO students 😉

MD programs are competitive, even for US MD students.

The AOA Match occurs before the NRMP Match. If you match AOA, you are pulled from the NRMP Match.

In order to match in an ACGME Program, you either have to not participate in the AOA Match, or go unmatched in the AOA Match (and match in an ACGME Match)

Skipping the AOA Match (and avoiding DO programs) to apply for ACGME Programs is a HUGE gamble. The question is - what happens if you don't match in the NRMP Match?

This is true for other extremely competitive specialities, such as neurosurgery, urology, ENT, etc.

 

[ManBroDude]

I'm not quite sure how the match works, but couldn't you just list only Ortho AOA programs for the DO match, and if you don't match apply for ACGME ortho + safeties?

 

[DrBowtie]

Disagree. Goal is to become an orthopedic surgeon. Either route (MD or DO) would get you there.

If you are interested in ortho, you apply to both DO and MD programs. Obviously the DO programs are more friendly to DO students 😉

MD programs are competitive, even for US MD students.

The AOA Match occurs before the NRMP Match. If you match AOA, you are pulled from the NRMP Match.

In order to match in an ACGME Program, you either have to not participate in the AOA Match, or go unmatched in the AOA Match (and match in an ACGME Match)

Skipping the AOA Match (and avoiding DO programs) to apply for ACGME Programs is a HUGE gamble. The question is - what happens if you don't match in the NRMP Match?

This is true for other extremely competitive specialities, such as neurosurgery, urology, ENT, etc.

I think they meant go to an MD medical school, not apply to only ACGME residencies.

 

[Total180]

I'm interested why you think so.

This is obviously n=1 school, but there are a lot of people here interested in ortho (and I think 4 or 5 of our recent grads....1st class! Matched AOA ortho last year). I think it is because as osteopathic students we do a lot of work with our hands (which obviously lends itself to surgery) and we get a lot of instruction on the musculoskeletal system=ortho. Just my opinion of course. Actually, I am pretty sure the chief of the ortho department at Vanderbilt was (or still is....) a DO. Don't quote me on that though...just had a friend who said they shadowed him, but I don't know when it was, or if it was really the chief haha.

 

[DocEspana]

Disagree. Goal is to become an orthopedic surgeon. Either route (MD or DO) would get you there.

If you are interested in ortho, you apply to both DO and MD programs. Obviously the DO programs are more friendly to DO students 😉

MD programs are competitive, even for US MD students.

... Some more words....

This is true for other extremely competitive specialities, such as neurosurgery, urology, ENT, etc.

Side note correction: Urology matches the AUA before the AOA. So in that specific case you're worried 'what if I don't match AOA'

 

[Dissected]

I think they meant go to an MD medical school, not apply to only ACGME residencies.

Yes. I stand by this as well. If I knew what I know now about getting into surgery and having the most possible options as an applicant, I would have waited a year and gone to an MD granting institution. It is an uphill battle as a DO student and I am seeing it already. Even though I will probably be able to obtain a residency position, my options are very narrowed. Bias exists (whether you choose to believe it or not) and we have more hoops to jump through. Having said that, I am content where I am and happy to be a DO student.

group_theory is correct about the circumstance he is referring to. I just wasn't clear about what I meant.

I'm not quite sure how the match works, but couldn't you just list only Ortho AOA programs for the DO match, and if you don't match apply for ACGME ortho + safeties?

Yes..pretty much. You apply/interview for all of them at the same time in fall of 4th year, but if you match AOA you forfeit all of the ACGME applications that you submitted, basically. If you don't match AOA you just continue to the ACGME match and pray.

 

[ooitsrich]

I'm not quite sure how the match works, but couldn't you just list only Ortho AOA programs for the DO match, and if you don't match apply for ACGME ortho + safeties?

I am not 100% sure how the match is either with all the dates and stuff but I think I know the general chronological order. Potentially you would apply to both DO and MD residencies at the start of your fourth year. Interviews hopefully roll sometime afterwards. Then in spring of your 4th year, the DO match comes first. If you match to a DO residency, your MD residency application becomes voided. So you have to attend that DO residency you just matched. For this very reason, some students, while this may be a gamble, opt out of the DO match in order to guarantee they don't match into a DO residency. By doing so, the student can hopefully obtain an MD residency spot of their top choice. Hope this clarifies some things. Anyone else have more specifics about the process?