Why does LECOM get so much hate on SDN?

[crazyboi1993]

I am attending LECOM-B next fall, and was wondering why people its so bad. From what I gathered it is an awesome school. Great board scores (1st or 2nd in the nation), great pass rates, excellent location and very cheap (cheapest among all except TCOM)!

Are the strict rules are what annoys people? I mean we are entering the medical profession, isnt it good to start dressing professionally, and following rules now, it can only prepare us for the future. I guess the no water rule can be annoying, but I wouldnt say its a con. The building is spotless.

The only thing I had an issue with was rotations, but they are revamping the 3rd year, where more spots will be availble for year long, and the flexibility is great..

PBL also seems like an excellent way to learn, your not forced to sit in lecture for long hours, you can control your own schedule, and be at a beautiful location as well. I interviewed a lot of places and felt some places had the best facilities, but at the end of the day are facilities gonna get us the residency? Isnt it good board scores. But I totally understand people who feel different, and understand their hate for LECOM, but I honestly think its one of the better DO schools in the country, considering all things!

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[deleted407021]

The clowns ........ the clowns.

 

[TallPreMed]

*google

*"LECOM sdn"

*"LECOM low GPA sdn"

Read prior posts

 

[mathnerd88]

I am attending LECOM-B next fall, and was wondering why people its so bad. From what I gathered it is an awesome school. Great board scores (1st or 2nd in the nation), great pass rates, excellent location and very cheap (cheapest among all except TCOM)!

Are the strict rules are what annoys people? I mean we are entering the medical profession, isnt it good to start dressing professionally, and following rules now, it can only prepare us for the future. I guess the no water rule can be annoying, but I wouldnt say its a con. The building is spotless.

The only thing I had an issue with was rotations, but they are revamping the 3rd year, where more spots will be availble for year long, and the flexibility is great..

PBL also seems like an excellent way to learn, your not forced to sit in lecture for long hours, you can control your own schedule, and be at a beautiful location as well. I interviewed a lot of places and felt some places had the best facilities, but at the end of the day are facilities gonna get us the residency? Isnt it good board scores. But I totally understand people who feel different, and understand their hate for LECOM, but I honestly think its one of the better DO schools in the country, considering all things!

From what I've understood, most of the hate comes from LECOM-E, not LECOM-B. It is because LECOM-E has all-day lectures where no food nor water is allowed. You have to dress professionally, and imagine sitting in a classroom all day wearing a shirt and tie.

The area doesn't seem to be great around Erie, and the nearest major cities are far away. Many students don't seem to like LECOM-E.

LECOM-B is in a nice area, near Sarasota, and the weather is amazing. LECOM-B does have one of the highest board scores in the nation, but did you also know they don't allow you to take the boards until you pass their own? The statistic is actually skewed. Board scores for Step 2 and 3 are not as stellar either.

Also, know that there are virtually zero research opportunities at LECOM. LECOM also does not pay for rotation sites (hence the low tuition,) and some of them do get dropped. However, LECOM is definitely a solid mid-tier DO school. I would definitely have come here for the tuition if I weren't accepted to the "big 5" or state schools.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I am attending LECOM-B next fall, and was wondering why people its so bad. From what I gathered it is an awesome school. Great board scores (1st or 2nd in the nation), great pass rates, excellent location and very cheap (cheapest among all except TCOM)!

Are the strict rules are what annoys people? I mean we are entering the medical profession, isnt it good to start dressing professionally, and following rules now, it can only prepare us for the future. I guess the no water rule can be annoying, but I wouldnt say its a con. The building is spotless.

The only thing I had an issue with was rotations, but they are revamping the 3rd year, where more spots will be availble for year long, and the flexibility is great..

PBL also seems like an excellent way to learn, your not forced to sit in lecture for long hours, you can control your own schedule, and be at a beautiful location as well. I interviewed a lot of places and felt some places had the best facilities, but at the end of the day are facilities gonna get us the residency? Isnt it good board scores. But I totally understand people who feel different, and understand their hate for LECOM, but I honestly think its one of the better DO schools in the country, considering all things!

My hate of LECOM isn't because of dress code/rules. I think you get what you pay for with them and that clinical education there seems to be sub par. I was accepted and didn't attend after being under impressed by my interview day. Those who cry about the rules are babies.

 

[premed_mommy]

My own personal reason for not applying to any of the LECOMs is that an attending physician that I scribe for (and hold in very high regard) told me that the students he has seen in their clinical rotations from LECOM were very unprepared and seemed not to have any idea what they were doing. He did not specify which LECOM location said students were from. Obviously, take this for what it is worth, which is one person's opinion. I am just telling you why I chose not to apply. I also do not think that PBL is for me. One other reason is that a representative from LECOM (E I believe) came to a health fair at my university and she told me that they do online cadaver dissection as opposed to actual hands-on dissections. Again, not sure if this is accurate, but it is what I was told.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

My own personal reason for not applying to any of the LECOMs is that an attending physician that I scribe for (and hold in very high regard) told me that the students he has seen in their clinical rotations from LECOM were very unprepared and seemed not to have any idea what they were doing. He did not specify which LECOM location said students were from. Obviously, take this for what it is worth, which is one person's opinion. I am just telling you why I chose not to apply. I also do not think that PBL is for me. One other reason is that a representative from LECOM (E I believe) came to a health fair at my university and she told me that they do online cadaver dissection as opposed to actual hands-on dissections. Again, not sure if this is accurate, but it is what I was told.

I saw their cadaver lab don't think online dissection is true. Atleast for Erie.

 

[TallPreMed]

I saw their cadaver lab don't think online dissection is true. Atleast for Erie.

That's the case for Seton Hill, campus in Greensburg PA (half an hour or so southeast of Pittsburgh)

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

That's the case for Seton Hill, campus in Greensburg PA (half an hour or so southeast of Pittsburgh)

Lol I looked at lots of virtual dissections online and I had lots of trouble identifying in the cadaver. Needed to spend alot of time in the lab in order to identify and on lots of different bodies. For the future surgeons that's a bit of scary thought.

 

[crazyboi1993]

From what I've understood, most of the hate comes from LECOM-E, not LECOM-B. It is because LECOM-E has all-day lectures where no food nor water is allowed. You have to dress professionally, and imagine sitting in a classroom all day wearing a shirt and tie.

The area doesn't seem to be great around Erie, and the nearest major cities are far away. Many students don't seem to like LECOM-E.

LECOM-B is in a nice area, near Sarasota, and the weather is amazing. LECOM-B does have one of the highest board scores in the nation, but did you also know they don't allow you to take the boards until you pass their own? The statistic is actually skewed. Board scores for Step 2 and 3 are not as stellar either.

Also, know that there are virtually zero research opportunities at LECOM. LECOM also does not pay for rotation sites (hence the low tuition,) and some of them do get dropped. However, LECOM is definitely a solid mid-tier DO school. I would definitely have come here for the tuition if I weren't accepted to the "big 5" or state schools.

I wish i had money, othweriwse i wouldve went to NYIT, but I think LECOM-B is an overall good school, it has some kinks but a lot of schools do, so im really content and im excited to be in sun not gonna lie lol!! LECOM-SH/erie i wasnt that impressed with!

 

[deleted407021]

Probably because it's pronounced "l'com" and no one likes the French.

Too soon?

 

[deleted407021]

If you stop making jokes, the terrorists win.

[Sincerely-held belief, not a joke]

I very much agree!

 

[VagabondKing]

From what I recall while researching, most of the "hate" came circa 2010 due to a disconnect with the administration. I can only speak for myself at Seton Hill but overall I've had a solid experience. The dress code isn't a big deal, you're not asked to be in suits or anything and you do it 4 days of the week (5th is just OMM, gym shorts/sweats/plain t-shirt).

I've also found PBL to be a solid way to learn since I simply don't have the attention span to sit in a lecture hall for 7-8 hrs a day and actually absorb everything. You already mentioned the positives - high board scores, low tuition, etc. Lack of cadaver lab at SH hasn't really been an issue since after you cut through all the layers of fat looking for a tiny muscle you'll just go home and study your atlas/gray's.

I'm surprised that "lack of water" keeps getting brought up - just get up and go outside of the lecture hall to take a drink if you really need to - haven't seen anyone who actually attends the school complaining of this.

As far as the lack of clinical experience that someone mentioned, I'm a bit surprised since we're really clinically oriented. Not just from the exams, but we're also running through graded history & physical practicals every week with either a clinician teacher or a clinician from the local health system sitting in/providing feedback.

I'm speaking for SH but I'm sure Bradenton is a fine choice too. Everyone has their biases so unless someone actually attended one of the LECOM schools I'd take their advice with a grain of salt.

 

[docycle]

From what I recall while researching, most of the "hate" came circa 2010 due to a disconnect with the administration. I can only speak for myself at Seton Hill but overall I've had a solid experience. The dress code isn't a big deal, you're not asked to be in suits or anything and you do it 4 days of the week (5th is just OMM, gym shorts/sweats/plain t-shirt).

I've also found PBL to be a solid way to learn since I simply don't have the attention span to sit in a lecture hall for 7-8 hrs a day and actually absorb everything. You already mentioned the positives - high board scores, low tuition, etc. Lack of cadaver lab at SH hasn't really been an issue since after you cut through all the layers of fat looking for a tiny muscle you'll just go home and study your atlas/gray's.

I'm surprised that "lack of water" keeps getting brought up - just get up and go outside of the lecture hall to take a drink if you really need to - haven't seen anyone who actually attends the school complaining of this.

As far as the lack of clinical experience that someone mentioned, I'm a bit surprised since we're really clinically oriented. Not just from the exams, but we're also running through graded history & physical practicals every week with either a clinician teacher or a clinician from the local health system sitting in/providing feedback.

I'm speaking for SH but I'm sure Bradenton is a fine choice too. Everyone has their biases so unless someone actually attended one of the LECOM schools I'd take their advice with a grain of salt.

Solid answer. Thanks. Anything to say about the qualms with rotation acquisiton?

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

I think it comes from a variety of places. It's actually funny now that I am in the admission cycle, I've actually heard more complaints from Bradenton students than Erie students. Most of the complaints seem to revolve around the drama of clinical education. The ClinicalEd department at Bradenton is getting a massive overhaul this year because the school is in major panic mode after this year's Step2 scores were the lowest in the school's history I believe. In the past, only the top students had the privilege to have "year-long" spots (mostly in Orlando, FL), however, the school now wants all students to be at a year-long spot. Unfortunately, with the opening of soo many medical schools in Florida, it has become nearly impossible for LECOM-B, a school that relies on volunteering preceptors for rotations, to find medical centers and preceptors for the students in the state. It looks like more and more students are going to be shipped to PA and NY to complete their 3rd year in the future. I suspect that this will continue the litany of complaints against LECOM. I heard that the clinical situation is such a top priority for all 3 campuses that the Ferrettis have paused the LECOM branch-campus expansion into Elmira, NY.

 

[VagabondKing]

Solid answer. Thanks. Anything to say about the qualms with rotation acquisiton?

A second year might be more helpful on this, since they just got placed for their rotations. I'm not exactly sure what the rotation issue is. I know that there are, at least for SH/Erie, 2 major "big 13" sites, one in Elmira, NY and the other in Erie, PA - but then there scattered sites all over the US ranging from NYC, to Texas to San Diego that take a handful of students each year. I know that it's also possible to set up your own rotations. I can't find the full list publicly right this second (and I can't post anything that's for student access only) but take my word that the list of sites for SH/Erie is LARGE.

I'm not sure if Bradenton does anything differently unfortunately, so hopefully someone from there can chip in.

 

[IslandStyle808]

You know what this sounds like? It sounds like the Caribbean. Except that at least the big Carib schools have all "green book approved" rotations, and based on this description I'm not convinced yours would be.

-Forgot to mention the most important point "quality control" of rotations. MD schools have an easier time with this because the hospitals are nearby the school.

In all seriousness, I wish DO schools had this requirement (for at least half the rotations). [Waiting for the "what a green book approved rotation?" question]

 

[Henry101]

LECOM-B initially had a class size of 150. It now has grown to approximately 230 first year students and people are shocked that there aren't enough clinical sites for all the students.
... and people bash on Rocky Vista for being a "for-profit" school despite the fact that they haven't expanded past their initial class size of 160 students in the past decade and that they have ample rotation spots in Colorado and Utah.

 

[crazyboi1993]

LECOM-B initially had a class size of 150. It now has grown to approximately 230 first year students and people are shocked that there aren't enough clinical sites for all the students.
... and people bash on Rocky Vista for being a "for-profit" school despite the fact that they haven't expanded past their initial class size of 160 students in the past decade and that they have ample rotation spots in Colorado and Utah.

I believe the class size is 196! I just think for the price its great. It allows us to be flexible with clinical sites, it just requires more work, but I am willing to put in effort and work hard in medical school, so i get a great rotation spot. I am from New York, so the option of doing rotations there as well seems great!

 

[Henry101]

I believe the class size is 196! I just think for the price its great. It allows us to be flexible with clinical sites, it just requires more work, but I am willing to put in effort and work hard in medical school, so i get a great rotation spot. I am from New York, so the option of doing rotations there as well seems great!

Wait until you see the number for next year's entering class...
I mean, I have friends that go there and are very, very happy. But no one can deny the clinical shortages for the campus.

 

[ortnakas]

Do you guys have any idea how absolutely insane this sounds to MD folks?

- You get "shipped off" all over the country for core rotations

- Your rotations are "preceptor-based" which is just terrible

- Your preceptors are volunteers (meaning no real accountability to the school or students)

- If you don't like it, you can set up your own rotations (because I'm sure places all over the country all just dying to teach basic medical skills to beand new clinical med students for free)

- You pay for the privilege of all this

You know what this sounds like? It sounds like the Caribbean. Except that at least the big Carib schools have all "green book approved" rotations, and based on this description I'm not convinced yours would be.

Jeez, no wonder there's all this LECOM hate...

Fair point, but this describes a lot of DO schools and is in no way specific to LECOM.

Also, just to provide info-- the shortage of year-long spots is specific to Bradenton. Not that all of the spots up north are ideal, but everyone at Erie and Seton Hill is assigned a "year-long" site. I put that in quotes because there are some sites that are missing a specific rotation-- psychiatry for an example-- but in those cases, you are assigned a different site for it, you don't find it yourself. The only ones you have to find yourself are electives and family medicine (which is typically available at the core sites if you'd rather stay there).

 

[sandstorm223]

Like you, I loved LECOM-B! I was very close to going there. But the fact that they totally leave you out to dry with rotations scared me away. I've heard some gnarly horror stories from past 3rd and 4th year students.

 

[crazyboi1993]

Wait until you see the number for next year's entering class...
I mean, I have friends that go there and are very, very happy. But no one can deny the clinical shortages for the campus.

They told us on the interview day that they are changing rotation system where everyone will get year long sites, so I think by the time my class matriculates, they should have everything together. That is the only con I really see tbh!

 

[crazyboi1993]

Like you, I loved LECOM-B! I was very close to going there. But the fact that they totally leave you out to dry with rotations scared me away. I've heard some gnarly horror stories from past 3rd and 4th year students.

Yeah, I know you also were debating LECOM-B vs CUSOM, I was hoping for a a scholarship (suprised I didnt get it because I legit aced the interviews lol), and I wasnt a fan of the location for CUSOM. I thought LECOM-B's price was perfect, and location. What horror stories have you heard? Hopefully the rotation site is more organized, even if I have to go north its not a big deal, bc I am from New York!

 

[bluehydrangia]

My close friend goes to LECOM-E and only has great things to say about her experience. She is in her 3rd year now and is loving it!

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Fair point, but this describes a lot of DO schools and is in no way specific to LECOM.

Also, just to provide info-- the shortage of year-long spots is specific to Bradenton. Not that all of the spots up north are ideal, but everyone at Erie and Seton Hill is assigned a "year-long" site. I put that in quotes because there are some sites that are missing a specific rotation-- psychiatry for an example-- but in those cases, you are assigned a different site for it, you don't find it yourself. The only ones you have to find yourself are electives and family medicine (which is typically available at the core sites if you'd rather stay there).

Doesn't E have mill creek for students? That's something atleast

 

[Henry101]

Doesn't E have mill creek for students? That's something atleast

Yes, Millcreek merged with LECOM a few years ago. It's now called "LECOM Health at Millcreek." It has ~150 beds. It used to be home to a large variety of AOA residency programs, from otolaryngology to orthopedic surgery to cardiology. Unfortunately, LECOM announced that many of the programs will be closing because of the new ACGME requirements.

What's interesting is that all of the LECOM campuses would send their poorest performing DO students to Millcreek to do third year rotations because, that way, LECOM had a closer eye on the students and they would commute back to the main campus a couple of blocks away for help, Step2 prep, etc.

 

[Scorpio1031]

I am a 4th year from LECOM-SH, and I am by far ahead of most students clinically. It all depends on where you rotate. I rotate in ny and I do more than most students get to do at most other schools. I feel that I will be far ahead most other during intern year.

 

[allantois]

LECOM has been the most responsible DO (and let me say dental) school when it comes to tuition prices. Whatever they are doing to contain costs, should be adopted by other schools too.

 

[Henry101]

LECOM has been the most responsible DO (and let me say dental) school when it comes to tuition prices. Whatever they are doing to contain costs, should be adopted by other schools too.

AND their commitment to graduate medical education in western Pennsylvania. (although, I don't know how it will work out post-merger)

 

[mathnerd88]

LECOM has been the most responsible DO (and let me say dental) school when it comes to tuition prices. Whatever they are doing to contain costs, should be adopted by other schools too.

They don't pay their clinical rotation sites. That's why the tuition is cheap compared to other schools. They're also located in areas where rent is super cheap and areas not as desirable to live in. Erie is very cheap and is one of the most snowiest cities in the US. LECOM-B is in a nice location, but Bradenton/Sarasota is also a cheap area to live in.

It honestly depends on what you want out of your education. I know so many students who don't like going to LECOM because of its strict rules (mandatory attendance policy and dress code.) Many students are okay with it, but I've never met a student who absolutely raved about LECOM. I'm from the Northeast, so I know plenty of students who go there (Erie Campus.) The only pro that people think of when it comes to LECOM is its cheap tuition. At my interview there, even the students don't seem to be very happy. You start realizing why their tuition is low because some aspects are "skimped."

LECOM before this year, also started handing out acceptances in the summer with the $1500 non-refundable deposit due in 30 days, well before other schools would get back to the applicants, and they make a lot of money from students deciding to go elsewhere later in the cycle.

Again, I also would've attended LECOM over many other mid-tier schools, but any of the big 5 (MSUCOM, PCOM, CCOM, DMU, KCU) or state schools would be more desirable for me.

 

[Mad Jack]

From what I recall while researching, most of the "hate" came circa 2010 due to a disconnect with the administration. I can only speak for myself at Seton Hill but overall I've had a solid experience. The dress code isn't a big deal, you're not asked to be in suits or anything and you do it 4 days of the week (5th is just OMM, gym shorts/sweats/plain t-shirt).

I've also found PBL to be a solid way to learn since I simply don't have the attention span to sit in a lecture hall for 7-8 hrs a day and actually absorb everything. You already mentioned the positives - high board scores, low tuition, etc. Lack of cadaver lab at SH hasn't really been an issue since after you cut through all the layers of fat looking for a tiny muscle you'll just go home and study your atlas/gray's.

I'm surprised that "lack of water" keeps getting brought up - just get up and go outside of the lecture hall to take a drink if you really need to - haven't seen anyone who actually attends the school complaining of this.

As far as the lack of clinical experience that someone mentioned, I'm a bit surprised since we're really clinically oriented. Not just from the exams, but we're also running through graded history & physical practicals every week with either a clinician teacher or a clinician from the local health system sitting in/providing feedback.

I'm speaking for SH but I'm sure Bradenton is a fine choice too. Everyone has their biases so unless someone actually attended one of the LECOM schools I'd take their advice with a grain of salt.

Uh... Just gonna say you're a bit wrong in regard to the cadaver lab. We spent like, probably 15 hours a week in there identifying everything on dozens of different bodies (we had over 40 cadavers in our lab). I was originally quite against it, as I don't plan on going into surgery, but a lot of the things I saw just stuck waaaay better after seeing them in person. There's really no substitute for gross anatomy with actual cadavers (we're huge on it- got a year of cadaver lab with 4:1 student:cadaver ratio, with an additional 10 weeks of neuroanatomy).

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Uh... Just gonna say you're a bit wrong in regard to the cadaver lab. We spent like, probably 15 hours a week in there identifying everything on dozens of different bodies (we had over 40 cadavers in our lab). I was originally quite against it, as I don't plan on going into surgery, but a lot of the things I saw just stuck waaaay better after seeing them in person. There's really no substitute for gross anatomy with actual cadavers (we're huge on it- got a year of cadaver lab with 4:1 student:cadaver ratio, with an additional 10 weeks of neuroanatomy).

Agree with your assessment of the cadaver lab. However, we spent no where near as much time as you guys in there. 3 hours a day (15 hrs a week) for like 4 months. And whenever we wanted to go back in for review

 

[Mad Jack]

Agree with your assessment of the cadaver lab. However, we spent no where near as much time as you guys in there. 3 hours a day (15 hrs a week) for like 4 months. And whenever we wanted to go back in for review

We had 8 required hours per week, we just spent a lot more than that in there on our own time to study.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

We had 8 required hours per week, we just spent a lot more than that in there on our own time to study.

Oh we had 15 hours required probably spent close to 20 but was only for 1/3 the year.

 

[mathnerd88]

Here is some posts from the LECOM-B thread...Again, LECOM is not a bad school, you just realize that some things ARE skimped, and you get what you pay for.

Second year here answering some questions I see being asked. Any opinions shared are my own, and you should speak with other 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year students if possible.

Schedule: Your first 10 weeks will be traditional lecture style learning anatomy. Lab is done with prosections, and the anatomy professors are pretty great. There are only 5 cadavers for ~100 students during lab which can make it crowded but not impossible.

The remainder of your first two years is spent (mostly) in 3 classes: OMM, Clinical, and PBL. The first two are pretty standard for DO schools, while PBL is sort of unique. You will meet in groups of 8 for 2 hours, 3 times a week and work through cases. Your group will assign chapters you'd like to be tested on. In my opinion the upside to PBL is that you get more time to study, while the downside is that it is possible to enter board review having never touched a subject if your groups never assigned it.

Facilities: This school has no simulation lab, no microscopes, no free printing, and no actual student lounge (just a cafeteria). We go to State College of Florida's nursing school and use their simulation lab two times total.

Rotations: An unmitigated disaster. The school does not have half as many year-long spots in Florida as they have students. This year spots were given out randomly, but in previous years it was GPA based. The remainder of the class either scrambles together a schedule or goes up north to Erie's left-over yearlongs. We were originally told they would force us to move up north, but they recently backed down from that. Our Dean of Clinical Education told us it would be easier on him if we died of the flu, because it would be less for him to set up; he also told us that if a decision comes down to being easier for him vs better for us, that he would win every time.

Conclusion: Anatomy is great, and PBL can work if you're a heavy reader. The lack of simulation center is definitely a negative but it's not a deal breaker. Ultimately, the anti-student atmosphere and lack of passable clinical rotation sites puts me on the "do not recommend" side of things. You don't need to deal with the abuse this school puts out while stressing over boards and your future.

If you have any questions I would be glad to answer them. You can also look for a tumblr blog called LECOMasutra which all the students use; it's filled with a lot of crude jokes but you can also gain a sense for how the student body is feeling.

I do agree with GatorsKW14 and superfrogpoke. It's important to talk to multiple people, which I suggested. I was "lucky" with my rotations, but ~50% of the class was not. When you talk to somebody who is happy about their clinical site, temper that with the knowledge that things only worked for them because of a dice roll. It was random.

I'd also be curious to find out what our faculty situation is currently. We have hemorrhaged staff over the past year, and I know three more who are leaving after spring. Several professors have told us we would be in trouble if the accreditation board came today.

I am a first year and agree with this approach. I honestly don't know of any student that loves our administration for the above mentioned reasons, but there are many 2nd years that I've talked to that are happy with the rotations they got. Some students were not so lucky and are understandably frustrated about it. There are many schools out there with better clinical education... There is no doubt about it. Research is also a major downfall of LECOM. It basically doesn't exist unless you are proactive and find your own projects outside of school. But I really like PBL and the rest of our preclinical education, and will try to make the best of my clinical education once it is time. I think you should go with your gut feeling when choosing a school. If something doesn't click for you at a certain school, don't go there because chances are there is a reason you are feeling that way. You guys are welcome to message me with any questions.

 

[Henry101]

Just want to point out that, from what I've heard, the Erie campus doesn't deal with many of these problems. The Erie students have 2 student centers (one on Peach Street and one in the main building). The Erie campus also has a 3 story gym and has 2 separate facilities they own for sim rooms (one attached to Millcreek Hospital and one in LECOM Medical Offices... I believe they are split based on if you are in OMSI or OMSII). From what I can tell also, unless you actively choose not to have one, all students in the PA campuses have year long rotation spots with a majority of students going to Millcreek Hospital, Alleghany General, Pinnacle Health (GPA requirement), Arnot Ogden in New York, or a site in Ohio that escapes me right now.
LECOM recently bought 6 other buildings on Grandview Avenue in Erie, right next to the main building, that are going to be used for a new Dental School, Dental office, another PCP office, student resource building, and 2 research centers (I believe one will be dedicated entirely to Alzheimers disease...very strategic considering that LECOM also owns all the geriatric and senior living centers in Erie). It looks like you won't be able to drive a few blocks without seeing "LECOM" in Erie haha

 

[Mr Roboto]

The PBL students rarely use the cadaver lab, they do online anatomy stuff. The IDP and LBP students use the cadaver lab.

That's what a LECOM-E professor of anatomy told me when I interviewed there.

 

[GasForeva1]

As an upperclassmen at the Erie campus, I have some thoughts.

I think the biggest issue with the hate on LECOM is the administration - it has been said time and time again here. They treat you like 2 year old convicts. Between the current metal detectors set up, that they patrol the lecture halls to make sure people are paying attention, turning off the wifi in the building during school hours, standing at the top of stairs to yell at people not to run, the condescending emails, the constant threatening emails that if we don't immediately do something, we won't graduate on time, the list literally goes on and on and on. The problem is that it really frustrates the students because we're all adults, we're all in medical school, and we haven't actually done anything wrong to deserve to be treated that way. That frustration builds, and people come on here to share their grievances. I read all about them before I started school and thought it was all exaggerated, but it's not. It's probably worse than people even write about on here. Honestly, the dress code is the least problematic thing at that school.

That being said. I do believe I've gotten a good education. In the past, students did have to set up a lot of their own rotations because they didn't have assigned hospitals. That is no longer the case - everyone in my class has a defined hospital that they spend almost the entire year at. Sending students off to different hospitals is not unique to DO schools - there are plenty of MD schools here who send their kids all over the state. I have never felt any more unprepared than any other student

And like Mr. Roboto said, only the PBL kids do computer based cadaver lab. LDP and DSP in Erie do a full normal cadaver lab, but honestly, I don't really know how doing a real cadaver lab has helped in any way since then, so don't let those 3 months of 4 years determine where and what you want to do.

 

[ortnakas]

only the PBL kids do computer based cadaver lab. LDP and DSP in Erie do a full normal cadaver lab, but honestly, I don't really know how doing a real cadaver lab has helped in any way since then, so don't let those 3 months of 4 years determine where and what you want to do.

I'm a "PBL kid" at the Seton Hill campus, and while I'm not a fan of our anatomy curriculum, I agree with @GasForeva1 and don't think it should be a deciding factor about where to go to med school. (Just wanted to add: I am a fan of our anatomy course director, he is awesome, and my problems with the class are NOT with him). At the end of the day, it's ~12 weeks out of almost 4 years. Other factors, like whether or not PBL is a good fit in general, are far more important.

Edit to add: did anyone else's profile pic mysteriously change on them? Why am I suddenly a black cat?

 

[docycle]

I think the biggest issue with the hate on LECOM is the administration - it has been said time and time again here. They treat you like 2 year old convicts. Between the current metal detectors set up, that they patrol the lecture halls to make sure people are paying attention, turning off the wifi in the building during school hours, standing at the top of stairs to yell at people not to run, the condescending emails, the constant threatening emails that if we don't immediately do something, we won't graduate on time, the list literally goes on and on and on. The problem is that it really frustrates the students because we're all adults, we're all in medical school, and we haven't actually done anything wrong to deserve to be treated that way. That frustration builds, and people come on here to share their grievances. I read all about them before I started school and thought it was all exaggerated, but it's not. It's probably worse than people even write about on here. Honestly, the dress code is the least problematic thing at that school.

Lol @ "patrol[ling]" the lecture halls. And why the hell would they turn off the wifi? You can't even google things? That seems like a great way to stifle education. I could see maybe blocking facebook/twitter, but blocking the internet overall sounds weird. Still though, not a sufficient reason in my mind to choose not to go (if not accepted elsewhere).

 

[deleted564680]

A lot of this has been mentioned but I will put in my two cents about LECOM-B...

1. Administration - basically an authoritarian state. They don't allow food or drink anywhere except the "cafeteria" and this includes faculty. The campus has extreme security (in and out only one door, always swipe badge or they literally chase you down) even though it's in a super-safe neighborhood. If you forget your badge then you have to go back and get it or no test for you that day. EVERYTHING has to be approved by Erie first, so the campus is not autonomous. They skimp on every piece of equipment/supplies such as making their own students bring gloves to anatomy lab (many other examples).

2. Faculty - they are WAY short. Not enough faculty in basically any section and the ones they do get are old/retired. They treat the faculty extremely poorly and many faculty members are vocal about how much they don't like to work there.

3. Facilities - cafeteria is okay at best, no book store, only prosection anatomy lab for about 2 months, no micro lab at all, only 8 standardized patient rooms, no sim lab, OMM lab small and has to have 3 sessions to fit all students

4. Classes - Their step 1 scores are a highly touted thing on SDN but their curriculum is PBL which means they are in class for 6 hours a week for that plus 2 for OMM. Yeah, anyone can score well on boards with that amount of time to study. None of that silly clinical lecture stuff getting in the way of boards and all Also, they just had a 15% fail rate on PE and their Step 2 and Step 3 scores are below average. Many attendings at nearby hospitals have refused to take their students or spoken poorly about them due to their poor clinical abilities.

5. Clinical Rotations - They provide only about 70 "year-long" spots in Florida even though the school is in Florida. No students get full 3rd and 4th year spots and even those that get the "year long" spots are mostly going to hospitals with < 150 beds. Right now, the entire OMS2 class is in shambles over their rotations/lack of them. Many are being forced to go up to the leftover Erie spots.

6. Tuition - it's cheaper than most, but does saving an extra 10k/year really matter after you start making attending salary when the disparity of education is so great? You get what you pay for.


*To be fair though, there are MANY DO schools that are similar to this and IMO they all need to be shut down until they can provide a standard of education equivalent to the upper-tier DO and almost all of the MD schools.

 

[j4pac]

People who went to LECOM-B generally liked their experience. The clinical education and research departments are hands off. It is really up to you stay on top of things. I'm that type of person anyway...so I had absolutely zero problems. If anything...it made me incredibly independent and persistent...probably two of my best qualities...and probably the primary reasons I'm heading off to Mayo Clinic next year for residency.
I graduated from LECOM-B in 2010, and my wife in 2012...I have known countless people who have attended LECOM-B...and I don't know any of them who don't appreciate their education. They are all doing incredibly well...in their choice specialties...with incredibly little debt.

I have also known quite a few LECOM-B students who did a LECOM-E post-bach and they told me that it was a malignant environment with absolutely nothing to do. That was not my experience at LECOM-B at all. People expect you to behave like professionals...but if you do so...they treat you with respect. Sarasota is frickin paradise. Probably the closest thing to San Diego on the East Coast. The town is on a short of list of places I want to go to practice.

 

[j4pac]

A lot of this has been mentioned but I will put in my two cents about LECOM-B...

1. Administration - basically an authoritarian state. They don't allow food or drink anywhere except the "cafeteria" and this includes faculty. The campus has extreme security (in and out only one door, always swipe badge or they literally chase you down) even though it's in a super-safe neighborhood. If you forget your badge then you have to go back and get it or no test for you that day. EVERYTHING has to be approved by Erie first, so the campus is not autonomous. They skimp on every piece of equipment/supplies such as making their own students bring gloves to anatomy lab (many other examples).

2. Faculty - they are WAY short. Not enough faculty in basically any section and the ones they do get are old/retired. They treat the faculty extremely poorly and many faculty members are vocal about how much they don't like to work there.

3. Facilities - cafeteria is okay at best, no book store, only prosection anatomy lab for about 2 months, no micro lab at all, only 8 standardized patient rooms, no sim lab, OMM lab small and has to have 3 sessions to fit all students

4. Classes - Their step 1 scores are a highly touted thing on SDN but their curriculum is PBL which means they are in class for 6 hours a week for that plus 2 for OMM. Yeah, anyone can score well on boards with that amount of time to study. None of that silly clinical lecture stuff getting in the way of boards and all Also, they just had a 15% fail rate on PE and their Step 2 and Step 3 scores are below average. Many attendings at nearby hospitals have refused to take their students or spoken poorly about them due to their poor clinical abilities.

5. Clinical Rotations - They provide only about 70 "year-long" spots in Florida even though the school is in Florida. No students get full 3rd and 4th year spots and even those that get the "year long" spots are mostly going to hospitals with < 150 beds. Right now, the entire OMS2 class is in shambles over their rotations/lack of them. Many are being forced to go up to the leftover Erie spots.

6. Tuition - it's cheaper than most, but does saving an extra 10k/year really matter after you start making attending salary when the disparity of education is so great? You get what you pay for.


*To be fair though, there are MANY DO schools that are similar to this and IMO they all need to be shut down until they can provide a standard of education equivalent to the upper-tier DO and almost all of the MD schools.

All that matters is results. LECOM-B students continually land great residencies...continually get great employment opportunities in their choice field...and have very little debt. LECOM-B is not a place for people who are immature. It's not a place for someone who needs to be spoon-fed. It's not for someone who is looking for immediate returns on their investment. However...if you want to a proficient clinical in your choice speciality 7-10 year after starting medical school, with very little debt...you may not be able to do better than LECOM-B.

 

[deleted564680]

Things have changed since you graduated (lost faculty, lost rotation sites the biggest things). I wouldn't want to be constantly unhappy like the current students are there now even if it meant a slightly higher step 1.

I'm a huge proponent of professionalism, but there's a difference between that and being authoritarian. Many students are called names by administration during meetings or yelled at, all students are considered possible criminals with the insanely tight security, and you can't even have a water bottle? Yeah, that's a silly thing but people get dehydrated you know? I have absolutely no problem with the dress code. I think that should be at all schools.

I've also seen no real difference in their matches compared to other schools, but this is impossible to quantify anyway. Congrats on Mayo, but every DO school has good matches.

 

[mathnerd88]

People who went to LECOM-B generally liked their experience. The clinical education and research departments are hands off. It is really up to you stay on top of things. I'm that type of person anyway...so I had absolutely zero problems. If anything...it made me incredibly independent and persistent...probably two of my best qualities...and probably the primary reasons I'm heading off to Mayo Clinic next year for residency.
I graduated from LECOM-B in 2010, and my wife in 2012...I have known countless people who have attended LECOM-B...and I don't know any of them who don't appreciate their education. They are all doing incredibly well...in their choice specialties...with incredibly little debt.

I have also known quite a few LECOM-B students who did a LECOM-E post-bach and they told me that it was a malignant environment with absolutely nothing to do. That was not my experience at LECOM-B at all. People expect you to behave like professionals...but if you do so...they treat you with respect. Sarasota is frickin paradise. Probably the closest thing to San Diego on the East Coast. The town is on a short of list of places I want to go to practice.

You got into Mayo residency 5 years after graduating LECOM-B? Most medical students want to get into a residency right after graduating medical school...

I'm not here to judge your situation.

 

[j4pac]

Things have changed since you graduated (lost faculty, lost rotation sites the biggest things). I wouldn't want to be constantly unhappy like the current students are there now even if it meant a slightly higher step 1.

I'm a huge proponent of professionalism, but there's a difference between that and being authoritarian. Many students are called names by administration during meetings or yelled at, all students are considered possible criminals with the insanely tight security, and you can't even have a water bottle? Yeah, that's a silly thing but people get dehydrated you know? I have absolutely no problem with the dress code. I think that should be at all schools.

I've also seen no real difference in their matches compared to other schools, but this is impossible to quantify anyway. Congrats on Mayo, but every DO school has good matches.

What year did you graduate LECOM-B?

 

[j4pac]

You got into Mayo residency 5 years after graduating LECOM-B? Most medical students want to get into a residency right after graduating medical school...

I'm not here to judge your situation.

Detour called active duty military.

 

[Dharma]

Detour called active duty military.

Burn!

 

[mathnerd88]

Being in the military does have its benefits...I'm going to be honest. It certainly helps in getting into medical school and residency.

Thank you for your service.