Why don't more people work before medical school?

[xnfs93hy]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I'll be working in industry as a Chemical Engineer (hopefully pharmaceuticals), before applying to medical school. My plan is to work for a few years to save up money for medical school, so this way I'm not drowning in debt. I realize that the quicker way to medical school is to apply fresh out of undergrad, and pay off your loans as a resident or, more commonly, when you are an attending physician. This is definitely a viable plan, no doubt. I just don't see why more people don't save up money for medical school and then go and apply. It gives you time to save up money to pay for medical school out of pocket, gives you some real-world experience and allows more time to beef up your CV. So, why don't more people choose this seemingly easier route to medical school? I mean, unless you're getting financial aid or some kind of scholarship, you're looking at racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

I'll be working in industry (hopefully pharmaceuticals), before applying to medical school. My plan is to work for a few years to save up money for medical school, so this way I'm not drowning in debt. I realize that the quicker way to medical school is to apply fresh out of undergrad, and pay off your loans as a resident or, more commonly, when you are an attending physician. This is definitely a viable plan, no doubt. I just don't see why more people don't save up money for medical school and then go and apply. It gives you time to save up money to pay for medical school out of pocket, gives you some real-world experience and allows more time to beef up your CV. So, why don't more people choose this seemingly easier route to medical school? I mean, unless you're getting financial aid or some kind of scholarship, you're looking at racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

Unless you have a very high-paying job right out of undergrad, it's unlikely you will be able to save a significant amount.

 

[darkjedi]

To take a job before medical school for the money is an extremely poor financial decision. That said, if you plan to use the gap year to gain some neat experiences, mature and set yourself as a better applicant, it is definitely worth it. Money should not be why you take a gap year.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Unless you have a very high-paying job right out of undergrad, it's unlikely you will be able to save a significant amount.

That's true. I think everyone should have a decent back-up to fall back on, though.

To take a job before medical school for the money is an extremely poor financial decision. That said, if you plan to use the gap year to gain some neat experiences, mature and set yourself as a better applicant, it is definitely worth it. Money should not be why you take a gap year.

How is it a poor financial decision? I think being able to pay for medical school with my own money without taking out loans seems like a good idea.

 

[Mad Jack]

To elaborate on @darkjedi 's point, let's say you work five years to save up for medical school. You're an entry level pharma grunt, but you land a higher paying gig at 55k a year. After taxes, you're pulling around 38k. You live a frugal, spartanesque existence and manage to survive on 18k per year, allowing you to put away 20k per year, for a total of 100k in savings.

Good for me, you think to yourself, I just saved half of my medical school tuition. I'll graduate with 150k in debt instead of 250k, awesome! But in reality, you just screwed yourself pretty hard, thanks to a little thing called opportunity cost. If you'd gone straight to medical school, you would be clocking 200k in a fairly low paying field right after residency. That translates to roughly 138k a year in post-tax earnings, and you'd get to start practice 5 years earlier. Sure, after your 250k of loans capitalizes its interest, you'll owe roughly 300k, or 150k more than if you'd worked for five years, but you'll earn an additional 500k post-tax by virtue of becoming a physician sooner, putting you 350k ahead overall. This is an obvious oversimplification- physician salaries are pretty flat, student loan interest rates are probably the lowest they will ever get, and medical school tuitions are rising every year, so you'll actually be even farther ahead by starting ASAP versus saving cash ahead of time.

If you want to take time off, do it for the right reasons- because you want some time to grow as a person, because you need to cool down a bit after undergrad to avoid burning out in med school, or to knock a few things off of your bucket list while you're still young. Don't do it for financial reasons, because you're financially shooting yourself in the foot by waiting.

 

[Lucca]

While the average matriculant age in the US is 25 and creeping upwards the average age in Texas is still 22. That's because the heavy in-state bias makes an overwhelming number of applicants more competitive for programs here straight out of undergrad. A Tx applicant who would be considered marginal in Cali could most likely pull off an acceptance at one of the TC MD programs. As a consequence, however, I feel this limits the applicants' opportunities out of state unless your 4 yrs of undergrad were absolutely packed with meaningful and productive experiences. This is not a problem unless you have a dream of going into academia in which case you better pray Baylor/UTSW show you some love - and that's no easy feat even for a TX applicant.

An upperclassman matriculating to JhU from here the other day told me this: "On the interview trail here in TX there is a significant difference in the applicant caliber at SW and Baylor. On the out of state trail I would say all the elite schools had applicants around the same caliber as SW and Baylor but from brand name schools like HYPSM instead of state schools."

 

[xnfs93hy]

To elaborate on @darkjedi 's point, let's say you work five years to save up for medical school. You're an entry level pharma grunt, but you land a higher paying gig at 55k a year. After taxes, you're pulling around 38k. You live a frugal, spartanesque existence and manage to survive on 18k per year, allowing you to put away 20k per year, for a total of 100k in savings.

Good for me, you think to yourself, I just saved half of my medical school tuition. I'll graduate with 150k in debt instead of 250k, awesome! But in reality, you just screwed yourself pretty hard, thanks to a little thing called opportunity cost. If you'd gone straight to medical school, you would be clocking 200k in a fairly low paying field right after med school. That translates to roughly 138k a year in post-tax earnings, and you'd get to start practice 5 years earlier. Sure, after your 250k of loans capitalizes its interest, you'll owe roughly 300k, or 150k more than if you'd worked for five years, but you'll earn an additional 500k post-tax by virtue of becoming a physician sooner, putting you 350k ahead overall. This is an obvious oversimplification- physician salaries are pretty flat, student loan interest rates are probably the lowest they will ever get, and medical school tuitions are rising every year, so you'll actually be even farther ahead by starting ASAP versus saving cash ahead of time.

If you want to take time off, do it for the right reasons- because you want some time to grow as a person, because you need to cool down a bit after undergrad to avoid burning out in med school, or to knock a few things off of your bucket list while you're still young. Don't do it for financial reasons, because you're financially shooting yourself in the foot by waiting.

All right. I see what you're saying. The opportunity cost would definitely really kill me. Thanks for laying everything out for me, too. I appreciate it. After reading what you said, I think it does make sense to start medical school sooner rather than later. I'm still going to take a couple of years off, though, because I want to continue performing research for MD/PhD. That's definitely something I could work on, among other things.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

To elaborate on @darkjedi 's point, let's say you work five years to save up for medical school. You're an entry level pharma grunt, but you land a higher paying gig at 55k a year. After taxes, you're pulling around 38k. You live a frugal, spartanesque existence and manage to survive on 18k per year, allowing you to put away 20k per year, for a total of 100k in savings.

Good for me, you think to yourself, I just saved half of my medical school tuition. I'll graduate with 150k in debt instead of 250k, awesome! But in reality, you just screwed yourself pretty hard, thanks to a little thing called opportunity cost. If you'd gone straight to medical school, you would be clocking 200k in a fairly low paying field right after med school. That translates to roughly 138k a year in post-tax earnings, and you'd get to start practice 5 years earlier. Sure, after your 250k of loans capitalizes its interest, you'll owe roughly 300k, or 150k more than if you'd worked for five years, but you'll earn an additional 500k post-tax by virtue of becoming a physician sooner, putting you 350k ahead overall. This is an obvious oversimplification- physician salaries are pretty flat, student loan interest rates are probably the lowest they will ever get, and medical school tuitions are rising every year, so you'll actually be even farther ahead by starting ASAP versus saving cash ahead of time.

If you want to take time off, do it for the right reasons- because you want some time to grow as a person, because you need to cool down a bit after undergrad to avoid burning out in med school, or to knock a few things off of your bucket list while you're still young. Don't do it for financial reasons, because you're financially shooting yourself in the foot by waiting.

I agree with this reasoning. Also, while med school tuition is stratospheric for many, some do get favorable financial aid packages. Not to mention that it's always better to do what you'll enjoy more. I would much rather be in med school with some debt than working with no debt.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'll be working in industry (hopefully pharmaceuticals), before applying to medical school. My plan is to work for a few years to save up money for medical school, so this way I'm not drowning in debt. I realize that the quicker way to medical school is to apply fresh out of undergrad, and pay off your loans as a resident or, more commonly, when you are an attending physician. This is definitely a viable plan, no doubt. I just don't see why more people don't save up money for medical school and then go and apply. It gives you time to save up money to pay for medical school out of pocket, gives you some real-world experience and allows more time to beef up your CV. So, why don't more people choose this seemingly easier route to medical school? I mean, unless you're getting financial aid or some kind of scholarship, you're looking at racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

1) Because every year you work you lose a year of peak earnings. You sacrifice a year of earning 150 - 300K after residency for 50-100K before. Even with your loans compounding at 7% that's not even close to a sound financial decision.

2) Because life tends to derail you. Every year you're out in the world is one more chance to end up with a marriage, an amazing job opportunity, a close circle of friends, or some other deeply fulfilling non-sene that could make you doubt your desire to submit yourself to leave it all behind for medical school.

3) Because medical school and residency are a minimum of 7 years of poverty and indignity. That's not easy ever, but its a lot easier when you're as young and you've never had a real job where they treat you with even a shred of dignity.

You can do medical school when you're older, lots of people do, but I wouldn't choose to. If you have the option, now or never.

 

[Toadesque]

I think it's also a bad idea because every year you wait to start is another year you have to spend working (as a doctor) past your prime. I'd rather be working when I'm young and motivated as opposed to old and burnt out.

 

[LizzyM]

The only people for whom the recommendation to work and save for school make sense are professional athletes. One I know banked enough to live on for 10 years then started school, the other made enough playing in one championship game to cover 4 years of med school tuition. For most other folks, it just isn't possible to save enough. That said, having some years of real world experience and responsibility for one's self in the world can be an opportunity for emotional growth, if not the substantial growth of one's savings account.

 

[Bethany555]

All right. I see what you're saying. The opportunity cost would definitely really kill me. Thanks for laying everything out for me, too. I appreciate it. After reading what you said, I think it does make sense to start medical school sooner rather than later. I'm still going to take a couple of years off, though, because I want to continue performing research for MD/PhD. That's definitely something I could work on, among other things.

Good luck. Although I'm not an expert on MD/PhD programs, my friends in them have their tuition paid plus a stipend. However, everyone in these programs were extremely competitive applicants (3.8+, 36+, some with publications, etc.).

I'm not sure what people's opinions are on unfunded programs. You would be giving up four years of potential earnings and would be in a ton of debt. Seems like a pretty bad deal, especially since someone with those stats might be able to land a scholarship at a regular medical school.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Good luck. Although I'm not an expert on MD/PhD programs, my friends in them have their tuition paid plus a stipend. However, everyone in these programs were extremely competitive applicants (3.8+, 36+, some with publications, etc.).

I'm not sure what people's opinions are on unfunded programs. You would be giving up four years of potential earnings and would be in a ton of debt. Seems like a pretty bad deal, especially since someone with those stats might be able to land a scholarship at a regular medical school.

Right now, it's only a possibility. If I don't get into an MSTP, then I might just choose to go the regular MD route and still do some research on the side without the help of a PhD.

 

[moop]

If you'd gone straight to medical school, you would be clocking 200k in a fairly low paying field right after med school.

I agree that it's not a smart financial decision, but the quoted is just not true. You're forgetting residency, when you work 80 a week on $40k. Factor that in, and your analysis way overstates the benefits of going straight through.

 

[Mad Jack]

I agree that it's not a smart financial decision, but the quoted is just not true. You're forgetting residency, when you work 80 a week on $40k. Factor that in, and your analysis way overstates the benefits of going straight through.

I meant post-residency, obviously. My wording was meant to be read as, "by going into a low-paying field (i.e. matching and completing a FP/IM residency)." And my numbers still hold up.

Lets look at my scenario. I make 38k a year after taxes without OT. If I worked 5 additional years, I would be able to save roughly 100k at my current spending level of 18k a year. I would be 34 when I started medical school, which will land me in 300k of debt post-residency at 41 years old (I'm assuming IM or FP). If I'd gone straight into medical school like I am now, with no savings, I would finish a 3 year residency at 36 years of age with 400k in debt. If I'm clocking 200k a year, my take-home pay is 138k. Student loans eat up 20k of that, so I've got 118k left. Now lets say I live off of the same 18k I would have been living off of had I postponed medical school for the next four years- at 40 years old, I'll have paid down 400k on my loans, leaving them nearly paid off at 40 years old, versus 300k of debt at 41 if I'd done things the other way around and saved money beforehand.

This also neglects the rising interest rates and tuition that I would likely face by starting 5 years later, which could amount to tens of thousands of extra dollars tacked on to my total debt, negating much of the benefit I gained by saving to begin with.

 

[BenzylAcetate]

I meant post-residency, obviously. My wording was meant to be read as, "by going into a low-paying field (i.e. matching and completing a FP/IM residency)." And my numbers still hold up.

Lets look at my scenario. I make 38k a year after taxes without OT. If I worked 5 additional years, I would be able to save roughly 100k at my current spending level of 18k a year. I would be 34 when I started medical school, which will land me in 300k of debt post-residency at 41 years old (I'm assuming IM or FP). If I'd gone straight into medical school like I am now, with no savings, I would finish a 3 year residency at 36 years of age with 400k in debt. If I'm clocking 200k a year, my take-home pay is 138k. Student loans eat up 20k of that, so I've got 118k left. Now lets say I live off of the same 18k I would have been living off of had I postponed medical school for the next four years- at 40 years old, I'll have paid down 400k on my loans, leaving them nearly paid off at 40 years old, versus 300k of debt at 41 if I'd done things the other way around and saved money beforehand.

This also neglects the rising interest rates and tuition that I would likely face by starting 5 years later, which could amount to tens of thousands of extra dollars tacked on to my total debt, negating much of the benefit I gained by saving to begin with.

Just logged in to post this, Mad Jack beat me to it.

The finances will be in favor of working now if you have a job that pays at least the amount you would make as a physician - difference in accrued interest between starting now or later. When you consider that most schools are increasing tuition significantly faster than inflation it almost never makes sense, financially, to start later.

 

[xnfs93hy]

So the general consensus is to start sooner rather than later, then. Thank you all for the responses. Do medical schools look down upon taking a gap year or two? I just don't feel that I will be ready to start medical school directly after undergrad.

 

[darkjedi]

So the general consensus is to start sooner rather than later, then. Thank you all for the responses. Do medical schools look down upon taking a gap year or two? I just don't feel that I will be ready to start medical school directly after undergrad.

No the consensus is that if you take years off, make sure the reasons are for yourself and not financial. It's perfectly fine to take gap years and you will likely be much better off for it in other ways. I didn't go to med school until 4 years after I graduated from undergrad.

 

[Microglia]

So the general consensus is to start sooner rather than later, then. Thank you all for the responses. Do medical schools look down upon taking a gap year or two? I just don't feel that I will be ready to start medical school directly after undergrad.

Not at all, I'd say most people in my class took time off. There's a reason that the average age is 24-25 in most classes.

 

[xnfs93hy]

No the consensus is that if you take years off, make sure the reasons are for yourself and not financial. It's perfectly fine to take gap years and you will likely be much better off for it in other ways. I didn't go to med school until 4 years after I graduated from undergrad.

I apologize. That essentially was the consensus. Starting sooner rather than later was just a part of that consensus.

 

[ace12345]

I took some time off, saved zero dollars as a result of not really making money/travel/other commitments, nearly burned out working 70-80 hours a week, and it was the best decision I've ever made.

Completely agree with the above, do not take time off for financial reason. But this is a message to everyone questioning it out there: if you've got something you really want to do, do it.

 

[mrh125]

Because it's hard to work for wage when you have a laundry list of 93492392392 ECs to knock off to even qualify for medical school, on top of classes and the mcat. Also, actually having a life to do things besides school, work, and more busy work is a good reason not to. I'd rather have debt than no quality of life.

 

[11B2MD]

I plan on doing this as well. I'll be getting out of the U.S. Army in about 6 months. Between my GI Bill benefits and the Yellow Ribbon Program I'm not too concerned with the cost of medical school. I am concerned with living expenses during medical school though. My plan is to go to work for a government contracting company using my military skills, knowledge, and experiences. The two companies I'm looking at are Northrop Grumman and Triple Canopy, which pay $150k-$180k per year. This will enable me to pay-off all debts and save a substantial amount. I plan to do this for at least 2 years maybe 3 and saving between $180k and $360k. I was even thinking of using a portion of the saved money to purchase an income property with at least 3 units so I can live in one and rent the others out while in med school. This will give me constant income as well as provide myself a living arrangement. Another benefit to this is I can keep the property and continue to rent it out even during my residency, thus continuing to provide an income. I do agree that your income would have to be high enough so that you are able to save a large amount within a concentrated time frame, if not it might just be a big waste of time.

 

[Plecopotamus]

All right. I see what you're saying. The opportunity cost would definitely really kill me. Thanks for laying everything out for me, too. I appreciate it. After reading what you said, I think it does make sense to start medical school sooner rather than later. I'm still going to take a couple of years off, though, because I want to continue performing research for MD/PhD. That's definitely something I could work on, among other things.

It sounds like you've already been given enough reasons why your initial logic was a little leaky.
However, as a non-trad, I'm going to chime in and also point out that living a Spartan lifestyle is a lot more difficult, whether emotionally or practically, as you get older. The chances that you'll have a very significant other or spouse becomes much higher, you have to consider whether or not kids will come into the picture, and your non-medical friends become financially stable and want to do much pricier activities/drinking/eating together. If you end up wanting or even needing to spend more, it's pretty easy to increase your cost of living well beyond any savings you could accumulate from before med school to offset them.

 

[Perrotfish]

So the general consensus is to start sooner rather than later, then. Thank you all for the responses. Do medical schools look down upon taking a gap year or two? I just don't feel that I will be ready to start medical school directly after undergrad.

Why don't you feel you'll be ready to start after Undergrad, what do you feel like you'll be missing? Also what are you planning on doing in the gap year, and how old will you be when you graduate?

I took an involuntary gap year when it took me two tries to get in. I used half of it to improve my chances at medical school through a certificate program and the other half to study abroad and become fluent in Spanish, a skill I use daily. It went as well as a gap year possibly could have gone, and I'm still not sure I could recommend it if you have a choice. By the end of this process even the youngest of us only has a couple of years of youth left to enjoy. Also, if its not a deferment, you need to be open to the possibility that what you're delaying for a year is the year you don't get in and have to wait another year to actually go. That can be pretty depressing when you've gotten your wanderlust out of your system already, I don't think I would have been willing/able to take an involuntary gap year if I took a voluntary gap year off first.

Not saying you should definitely not do it, obviously several people here took time off and had good experiences. Just make sure you know why you're doing it.

 

[sakata8242]

Unless you held a well paying job (i.e. one that pays as much as an attending physician) prior to going to med school I don't think what you're proposing is necessarily an "easier" route. Most people making that kind of money would balk at the opportunity loss of quitting such a lucrative job to make no money for 4 years, and much less money for another 3-7 years before actually starting to make money again.

How much will "working for a few years" save up? 40K? 60K? 100K? 200K? Given that the average student graduates with close to 200K in debt, do the math and ask yourself how many years you're willing to put off your medical career just to save what could end up being only a couple hundred bucks a month in loan repayment down the road.

Seriously though, if you're fortunate enough to have a job that pays such that you can save enough money over just a few years to make a significant dent in future med school debt, you'd better be pretty damn sure you really REALLY want to go to medical school and become a doctor.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Why don't you feel you'll be ready to start after Undergrad, what do you feel like you'll be missing? Also what are you planning on doing in the gap year, and how old will you be when you graduate?

I took an involuntary gap year when it took me two tries to get in. I used half of it to improve my chances at medical school through a certificate program and the other half to study abroad and become fluent in Spanish, a skill I use daily. It went as well as a gap year possibly could have gone, and I'm still not sure I could recommend it if you have a choice. By the end of this process even the youngest of us only has a couple of years of youth left to enjoy. Also, if its not a deferment, you need to be open to the possibility that what you're delaying for a year is the year you don't get in and have to wait another year to actually go. That can be pretty depressing when you've gotten your wanderlust out of your system already, I don't think I would have been willing/able to take an involuntary gap year if I took a voluntary gap year off first.

Not saying you should definitely not do it, obviously several people here took time off and had good experiences. Just make sure you know why you're doing it.

I feel like my MCAT score and overall application would be stronger if I took a year or two off. I don't feel like I'll be missing anything apart from graduating medical school later. I plan on bolstering my application during the gap year. Doing more research and ECs. I'll be 25 when I graduate. I'm a non-trad college student. I'm also in engineering and it's difficult to jump through all the hoops while I'm in school and still do well in my classes. I'm doing a dual BS/MS in Chemical Engineering and have three years of my program left to go.

 

[redpanda]

Unless you have a very high-paying job right out of undergrad, it's unlikely you will be able to save a significant amount.

True, but speaking from the experience having spent several years in pharma prior to medical school, being an engineer in pharma is the type of pay grade which will allow you to save a significant quantity and take some nice vacations. Then again, it also helped that I also happened to invest some of that cash (by luck) when the market was bottoming out so I was able to pay for a chunk of medical school and still have a retirement account which thankfully has done fabulously. In the end, I didn't get a job to save money. I got it because I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted at the end of undergrad and the offer was sitting in front of me long beforehand.

 

[alpinism]

I feel like my MCAT score and overall application would be stronger if I took a year or two off. I don't feel like I'll be missing anything apart from graduating medical school later. I plan on bolstering my application during the gap year. Doing more research and ECs. I'll be 25 when I graduate. I'm a non-trad college student. I'm also in engineering and it's difficult to jump through all the hoops while I'm in school and still do well in my classes. I'm doing a dual BS/MS in Chemical Engineering and have three years of my program left to go.

Taking a couple years off to improve your application (GPA/MCAT/Research/ECs) is never a bad idea especially if you want to get into top schools for the extra opportunities. It's also nice to take a year of 2 off to explore other interests, enjoy your 20s, and travel before starting med school.

It will hurt your financially in the long run however.

 

[Perrotfish]

I feel like my MCAT score and overall application would be stronger if I took a year or two off. I don't feel like I'll be missing anything apart from graduating medical school later. I plan on bolstering my application during the gap year. Doing more research and ECs. I'll be 25 when I graduate. I'm a non-trad college student. I'm also in engineering and it's difficult to jump through all the hoops while I'm in school and still do well in my classes. I'm doing a dual BS/MS in Chemical Engineering and have three years of my program left to go.

1) If your main concern is the MCAT score then I don't think you should wait. Your MCAT score will be strongest after you take an MCAT course, which you can do perfectly well when you are in school, its not a test you should need years to prep for. If the only thing that's keeping you from applying is anxiety about your application (i.e. you don't want to take time off to climb Everest or something) then there's a good chance that you're just unnecessarily prolonging this process by psyching yourself out.

2) Do you really need the Masters? You're not going to be a chemical engineer, it sounds like a lot of extra time and expense if what you're doing is going to medical school. That's also a lot of time/stress/expense. Its reasonable to want a degree you can use as a backup, like an undergraduate degree in ChemE, but a masters is going somewhat beyond a backup plan. Why are you doing it?

3) If you're worried about your application, how is your application looking? What kind of GPA are you maintaining? Are you on track to finish all the prereqs? Do you have any ECs? If you still have three years to go and you're worried you're going to finish with a shoddy application, I would strongly consider changing your strategy now rather than waiting until you graduate and then trying to fix the damage.

 

[xnfs93hy]

1) If your main concern is the MCAT score then I don't think you should wait. Your MCAT score will be strongest after you take an MCAT course, which you can do perfectly well when you are in school, its not a test you should need years to prep for. If the only thing that's keeping you from applying is anxiety about your application (i.e. you don't want to take time off to climb Everest or something) then there's a good chance that you're just unnecessarily prolonging this process by psyching yourself out.

2) Do you really need the Masters? You're not going to be a chemical engineer, it sounds like a lot of extra time and expense if what you're doing is going to medical school. That's also a lot of time/stress/expense. Its reasonable to want a degree you can use as a backup, like an undergraduate degree in ChemE, but a masters is going somewhat beyond a backup plan. Why are you doing it?

3) If you're worried about your application, how is your application looking? What kind of GPA are you maintaining? Are you on track to finish all the prereqs? Do you have any ECs? If you still have three years to go and you're worried you're going to finish with a shoddy application, I would strongly consider changing your strategy now rather than waiting until you graduate and then trying to fix the damage.

I'll probably try taking the MCAT first as an undergraduate. I don't necessarily need the Master's degree, but it's part of my five year program; so, that's why I'm doing it. My application as of now is actually looking pretty good. I need much more research experience if I'm going to go for MD/PhD, though. I'm maintaining a 3.8 - 3.9 each semester at university right now. I am also on track to finish all of the prerequisite classes, too. I'm a little lacking in the EC department. I haven't yet done any shadowing, tutoring, volunteering, etc. I'm not worried about finishing with a shoddy application, as I am worried that I will not be able to complete more extracurricular actitivies and such. That's part of the reason why I'm consider doing a gap year or two in order to fill that hole in my application if it doesn't get filled within the next three years. I don't plan on spending a year studying for the MCAT either. I just figured that I might take it after I graduate, if I don't get to it during undergrad.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'll probably try taking the MCAT first as an undergraduate. I don't necessarily need the Master's degree, but it's part of my five year program; so, that's why I'm doing it. My application as of now is actually looking pretty good. I need much more research experience if I'm going to go for MD/PhD, though. I'm maintaining a 3.8 - 3.9 each semester at university right now. I am also on track to finish all of the prerequisite classes, too. I'm a little lacking in the EC department. I haven't yet done any shadowing, tutoring, volunteering, etc. I'm not worried about finishing with a shoddy application, as I am worried that I will not be able to complete more extracurricular actitivies and such. That's part of the reason why I'm consider doing a gap year or two in order to fill that hole in my application if it doesn't get filled within the next three years. I don't plan on spending a year studying for the MCAT either. I just figured that I might take it after I graduate, if I don't get to it during undergrad.

Do you have a reason for wanting to add a PhD to your MD?

 

[xnfs93hy]

Do you have a reason for wanting to add a PhD to your MD?

I want to do basic science research alongside my clinical work with patients.

 

[Lucca]

I want to do basic science research alongside my clinical work with patients.

Do you want to do clinical work alongside your research? Because thats a more accurate statement for md phd careers.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Do you want to do clinical work alongside your research? Because thats a more accurate statement for md phd careers.

Yes.

 

[rifle4802]

The way I see it, folks from a lower-class or middle-class background are more likely to work before medical school because they simply have to. Whether it's to pay for college or save up money for medical school's 200K+ student loans, these poor applicants simply won't be able to pay off their debt until they're in their mid/late 30s. However, a very small fraction of applicants come from rich families and thus do not need to work. Heck, some of them won't even have to take out loans for medical school, and it's not like working non-clinical jobs actually helps your application anyway, so for those who don't need the money it's really just a waste of time.

 

[xnfs93hy]

The way I see it, folks from a lower-class or middle-class background are more likely to work before medical school because they simply have to. Whether it's to pay for college or save up money for medical school's 200K+ student loans, these poor applicants simply won't be able to pay off their debt until they're in their mid/late 30s. However, a very small fraction of applicants come from rich families and thus do not need to work. Heck, some of them won't even have to take out loans for medical school, and it's not like working non-clinical jobs actually helps your application anyway, so for those who don't need the money it's really just a waste of time.

Well, I'll need some money to actually support myself. My parents aren't going to help me.

 

[darkjedi]

The way I see it, folks from a lower-class or middle-class background are more likely to work before medical school because they simply have to. Whether it's to pay for college or save up money for medical school's 200K+ student loans, these poor applicants simply won't be able to pay off their debt until they're in their mid/late 30s. However, a very small fraction of applicants come from rich families and thus do not need to work. Heck, some of them won't even have to take out loans for medical school, and it's not like working non-clinical jobs actually helps your application anyway, so for those who don't need the money it's really just a waste of time.

lol you are so wrong it's not even funny, don't talk about things you don't understand

 

[medicalmnt]

I feel like people who are in medicine for medicine itself and not the fat paycheck don't care about $ and would like to be a physician ASAP.
You can live a happy traditional cookiecutter lifestyle making $120k in the burbs with 3kids, dog, stationwagon, housewife. I don't think $ should ever be a factor when deciding to become a doctor because I think less than 40% of physicians say they wouldn't choose medicine.

This may be a terrible analogy but... Reggie Bush/Cam Newton/OSU football/Miami football/OJ Mayo/LeBron/Kobe/RGIII/etc. numerous star athletes either skipped college completely to enter the NBA or NFL ASAP because they wanted to follow their dreams of becoming a star athlete. Some athletes like Reggie/OJ/ScamNewton turned out million$ homes,new luxury cars, thousands $ to enter the draft.. (I know you can say professional athletes make millions$ but you can't deny that probably 99% of the athletes wanted to be all-time greats since they were 5years old)

It's not really a different world, pro-athletes vs. pre-meds who just want to become top doctors instead of wasting 2-3years doing something they have no interest in. Personally I'd rather become a physician in 7years with $250k debt than become a physician in 14years with $50k debt.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I'm nervous about taking out $250k in loans just for tuition. Then, if I get accepted somewhere, I'd have to take out more loans for a place to live and living expenses. That's a lot of money to borrow. I know it will get paid back quickly on an attending's income, but the prospect of taking out so much money in loans scares the heck out of me.

 

[theSmurfette]

I'm nervous about taking out $250k in loans just for tuition. Then, if I get accepted somewhere, I'd have to take out more loans for a place to live and living expenses. That's a lot of money to borrow. I know it will get paid back quickly on an attending's income, but the prospect of taking out so much money in loans scares the heck out of me.

Remember, if you do matriculate as an MD/PhD, your tuition is paid for (and you receive a stipend for living expenses, I believe). So I'm kind of confused about your hesitancy to begin sooner than later. And, if you decide to do MD only, a state school is going to be much cheaper than any private institution.

It took me 5 years from the time I figured out that I wanted to go to medical school to actually matriculate. I worked for those five years, in the medical field, but I would give anything to have matriculated with only a year's gap. So now I'm 32 and beginning medical school, instead of 32 and graduating.

 

[db1210]

Some ChemE's make more than doctors. You could go work for Halliburton or Black and Veatch, get sent around the world and make over six figures out of undergrad.

A friend of mine was a C average engineering student, he now works as a drilling engineer making 150K + a year. I myself worked as a chemist in pharmaceuticals and then the energy sector after undergrad (2 years) but it wasn't doing it for me so now I am in medical school. Try your hand at engineering, you may love it and stick with it. If you do decide on medicine after some time working in industry, you will have some discipline that will help you in medical school.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Remember, if you do matriculate as an MD/PhD, your tuition is paid for (and you receive a stipend for living expenses, I believe). So I'm kind of confused about your hesitancy to begin sooner than later. And, if you decide to do MD only, a state school is going to be much cheaper than any private institution.

It took me 5 years from the time I figured out that I wanted to go to medical school to actually matriculate. I worked for those five years, in the medical field, but I would give anything to have matriculated with only a year's gap. So now I'm 32 and beginning medical school, instead of 32 and graduating.

I understand that MSTPs are paid for, but my research is lacking. I have very limited experience, so far, and I want to do much more and become more independent in the laboratory. This might take more than three years. I'll apply to MD/PhD programs out of undergrad, but I'm not sure how competitive my application will be at that time. I'm just going to have to wait and see.

 

[Frosty808]

Unless you have a very high-paying job right out of undergrad, it's unlikely you will be able to save a significant amount.

this is why i'm still pre-med at age 29 and pushing for medical school. With funerals, medical bills, and contract job placements (on top of living in expensive Hawaii-not by choice by the way), I'm still trying to get my goal of 3k in my savings before applying.

 

[Frosty808]

unless you're already borderline homeless and don't have parents who are already struggling to make bills

To take a job before medical school for the money is an extremely poor financial decision. That said, if you plan to use the gap year to gain some neat experiences, mature and set yourself as a better applicant, it is definitely worth it. Money should not be why you take a gap year.

 

[Frosty808]

To elaborate on @darkjedi 's point, let's say you work five years to save up for medical school. You're an entry level pharma grunt, but you land a higher paying gig at 55k a year. After taxes, you're pulling around 38k. You live a frugal, spartanesque existence and manage to survive on 18k per year, allowing you to put away 20k per year, for a total of 100k in savings.

Good for me, you think to yourself, I just saved half of my medical school tuition. I'll graduate with 150k in debt instead of 250k, awesome! But in reality, you just screwed yourself pretty hard, thanks to a little thing called opportunity cost. If you'd gone straight to medical school, you would be clocking 200k in a fairly low paying field right after residency. That translates to roughly 138k a year in post-tax earnings, and you'd get to start practice 5 years earlier. Sure, after your 250k of loans capitalizes its interest, you'll owe roughly 300k, or 150k more than if you'd worked for five years, but you'll earn an additional 500k post-tax by virtue of becoming a physician sooner, putting you 350k ahead overall. This is an obvious oversimplification- physician salaries are pretty flat, student loan interest rates are probably the lowest they will ever get, and medical school tuitions are rising every year, so you'll actually be even farther ahead by starting ASAP versus saving cash ahead of time.

If you want to take time off, do it for the right reasons- because you want some time to grow as a person, because you need to cool down a bit after undergrad to avoid burning out in med school, or to knock a few things off of your bucket list while you're still young. Don't do it for financial reasons, because you're financially shooting yourself in the foot by waiting.

Sounds like money- orientedthan anything!

 

[Disciple of Sattar]

this is why i'm still pre-med at age 29 and pushing for medical school. With funerals, medical bills, and contract job placements (on top of living in expensive Hawaii-not by choice by the way), I'm still trying to get my goal of 3k in my savings before applying.

Save up for the cost of applying. Don't save up for cost of living and tuition during school.

 

[Mad Jack]

Sounds like money- orientedthan anything!

Money matters.

 

[Frosty808]

To elaborate on @darkjedi 's point, let's say you work five years to save up for medical school. You're an entry level pharma grunt, but you land a higher paying gig at 55k a year. After taxes, you're pulling around 38k. You live a frugal, spartanesque existence and manage to survive on 18k per year, allowing you to put away 20k per year, for a total of 100k in savings.

Good for me, you think to yourself, I just saved half of my medical school tuition. I'll graduate with 150k in debt instead of 250k, awesome! But in reality, you just screwed yourself pretty hard, thanks to a little thing called opportunity cost. If you'd gone straight to medical school, you would be clocking 200k in a fairly low paying field right after residency. That translates to roughly 138k a year in post-tax earnings, and you'd get to start practice 5 years earlier. Sure, after your 250k of loans capitalizes its interest, you'll owe roughly 300k, or 150k more than if you'd worked for five years, but you'll earn an additional 500k post-tax by virtue of becoming a physician sooner, putting you 350k ahead overall. This is an obvious oversimplification- physician salaries are pretty flat, student loan interest rates are probably the lowest they will ever get, and medical school tuitions are rising every year, so you'll actually be even farther ahead by starting ASAP versus saving cash ahead of time.

If you want to take time off, do it for the right reasons- because you want some time to grow as a person, because you need to cool down a bit after undergrad to avoid burning out in med school, or to knock a few things off of your bucket list while you're still young. Don't do it for financial reasons, because you're financially shooting yourself in the foot by waiting.

this sounds like money- oriented than anything!

 

[Frosty808]

TRUE but that quote seemed to look down upon people who are forced to work because they have deaths, medical bills, and other personal reasons. If I had a choice, I wouldn't have taken a break but I had family members that were murdered and a surgery to overcome. I was also raped by my uncle, homeless, and had my credit identity... it's been a crazy 5 years for me.