Why Don't They Put Thiamine In Alcohol?

[Alvarez13]

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I keep getting questions on B1, EtOH, and Wernicke-Korsakoff. Why can't Anheuser just add B1 to their beer? Their customers would live longer and drink more and there'd be one less thing for me to learn.

 

[WeekendWarrior]

LOL because you still couldn't absorb it. However, I like the way you think!

 

[Vancomycin12]

haha I agree...great though process. Sounds good in theory but I believe gluconeo is blocked by EtOH and therefore could not make glucose, and therefore could not use thiamine as a co-factor even if you had it....

 

[Untraditional]

Same reason we don't put alcohol in your mother... one of you is enough!

 

[Gut Shot]

LOL because you still couldn't absorb it. However, I like the way you think!

haha I agree...great though process. Sounds good in theory but I believe gluconeo is blocked by EtOH and therefore could not make glucose, and therefore could not use thiamine as a co-factor even if you had it....

Cellular biology and biochemistry doesn't usually work in such a tidy fashion. Patients are simply to idiosyncratic to view things so simplistically.

Yes, ethanol inhibits thiamine absorption, and it alters thiamine utilization, but to a variable extent. Preventing the deficiency in the first place at least gives the body a chance to function adequately.

If you check the literature the Australians saw a decline in WE in the decade following fortification of bread with thiamine. Of course this wouldn't help those who are on a 100% liquid diet, but the finding is consistent with the notion that thiamine supplementation can be beneficial.

Personally, I always assumed the lack of thiamine fortification in this country's booze supply was due to a concern that it would appear to "legitimize" over-consumption of alcohol. F-ing puritans.

 

[Alvarez13]

Cellular biology and biochemistry doesn't usually work in such a tidy fashion. Patients are simply to idiosyncratic to view things so simplistically.

Yes, ethanol inhibits thiamine absorption, and it alters thiamine utilization, but to a variable extent. Preventing the deficiency in the first place at least gives the body a chance to function adequately.

If you check the literature the Australians saw a decline in WE in the decade following fortification of bread with thiamine. Of course this wouldn't help those who are on a 100% liquid diet, but the finding is consistent with the notion that thiamine supplementation can be beneficial.

Personally, I always assumed the lack of thiamine fortification in this country's booze supply was due to a concern that it would appear to "legitimize" over-consumption of alcohol. F-ing puritans.

Lol 😀

Maybe some type of edible, vitamin fortified bottle...reduce waste while we're at it and get a good snack.

 

[VenusinFurs]

Lol 😀

Maybe some type of edible, vitamin fortified bottle...reduce waste while we're at it and get a good snack.

If we still kept glass bottles around this would result in many drunks stumbling into the ER with horrible, bleeding mouths.

 

[startswithb]

I think you just solved my PBL case.

 

[dr zaius]

Ugh, we get Wernicke-Korsakoff almost as much as B12/folate deficiency. Shame on me if I ever miss those questions on step I.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I want to say that there was a push in nyc to supplement with vitamins, but the lobbyist shut it down supposedly due to the increase in cost and concerns about taste?

 

[SpecterGT260]

u screw with the taste of my belgians and we will have to have a few words....

 

[MossPoh]

They do supplement it in Australia....(last time I heard, which was 3 years ago)

 

[D elegans]

u screw with the taste of my belgians and we will have to have a few words....

👍

 

[Alvarez13]

Ugh, we get Wernicke-Korsakoff almost as much as B12/folate deficiency. Shame on me if I ever miss those questions on step I.

I can just see my step I question now: "An alcoholic with difficulty seeing at night walks into your clinic with cracks around his mouth and complains that he has been bleeding from his arm for hours. You tell him to put down his bear liver that he's been munching on for the last few days. He says it's for his training and he also eats 20 raw eggs per day! What is your dx?"

 

[dr zaius]

I can just see my step I question now: "An alcoholic with difficulty seeing at night walks into your clinic with cracks around his mouth and complains that he has been bleeding from his arm for hours. You tell him to put down his bear liver that he's been munching on for the last few days. He says it's for his training and he also eats 20 raw eggs per day! What is your dx?"

Hah the most convoluted vitamin case ever.

 

[VenusinFurs]

You tell him no one's slick like Gaston, no one's quick like Gaston

 

[CaptainSSO]

Cellular biology and biochemistry doesn't usually work in such a tidy fashion. Patients are simply to idiosyncratic to view things so simplistically.

Yes, ethanol inhibits thiamine absorption, and it alters thiamine utilization, but to a variable extent. Preventing the deficiency in the first place at least gives the body a chance to function .

smart man

 

[Abby_Normal]

Personally, I always assumed the lack of thiamine fortification in this country's booze supply was due to a concern that it would appear to "legitimize" over-consumption of alcohol. F-ing puritans.

It's probably a contributing factor. We are the country that, during Prohibition, was willing to kill its own citizens to enforce temperance by encouraging the poisoning of bootleg booze.

That said, considering the range of nutritional deficiencies/ill health effects from overconsumption of alcohol how much of a difference would adding thiamine make?

 

[Coltran]

Its cause med school professors lobbied hard not to put thiamine in alcohol. Just think of all the questions they wouldn't be able to ask on tests if patients no longer got Wernicker-Korchakoff's syndrome. The professors are still reeling from the loss of polio questions...

 

[Gut Shot]

That said, considering the range of nutritional deficiencies/ill health effects from overconsumption of alcohol how much of a difference would adding thiamine make?

Only one way to find out for sure, but I'm willing to bet that thiamine/folate supplementation of just five fortified wines would show an effect.

 

[dr zaius]

Only one way to find out for sure, but I'm willing to bet that thiamine/folate supplementation of just five fortified wines would show an effect.

I got a headache just from looking at them. Oh, high school.

 

[Alvarez13]

Only one way to find out for sure, but I'm willing to bet that thiamine/folate supplementation of just five fortified wines would show an effect.

 

[drfamilymed]

 

[HopesandDreams]

Real beer IE artisan/microbrewery/craft beer is a rich source of b vitamins and a few other vitamins/minerals. Not sure about the bioavailability. Macrobrews such as bud, coors, mgd etc, are heavily filtered/ made with lower quality ingredients and I'm not sure about the vitamin content in those beers.

 

[Megatron81]

Alcoholics are rarely drinking beer...

 

[NH14]

OP: because adding Thiamine would affect taste and alcohol companies don't want to hurt sales. It would also cost these companies some $ to add thiamine to their product. These are the true reasons.

This is why there should be stronger federal public health initiatives and a senate without Republicans. Only then would the US would be a healthier place.

But that's not reality is it?

 

[myhandsarecold]

same reason as to why disulfiram is not on the drink. b vitamins can be very irritating, nauseating especially on empty stomach. remember also where this stuff acts, kreb cycle, and even if you have thiamine with no glucose, what's the point (remember how alcohol interferes with kreb cycle, gluconeogenesis). alcoholics dont necessarily eat well or when they are suppose to. better give them a good meal with the alcohol.

oh, vancomycin (post #3) already talked about it.

 

[Jonathan Reichler]

I keep getting questions on B1, EtOH, and Wernicke-Korsakoff. Why can't Anheuser just add B1 to their beer? Their customers would live longer and drink more and there'd be one less thing for me to learn.

By 1940, the alcoholic‐beverage industry was experimentally adding thiamine to its products. Seagram & Sons found it was stable in their whiskey. The California Wine Institute found it was stable in their wines. Anheuser‐Busch found it was stable in their beer.

Nor were the drug companies idle. Both Abbott Laboratories and SmithDorsey Company piloted thiamine‐fortified wines.

But a chill descended. By law, all food additives must be listed on the label. In 1940, a Federal ruling prohibited listing the vitamin content of alcoholic beverages on the label as this would imply that drinking alcohol is healthy — an improper inducement; thus, added vitamins cannot be listed on the label. However, this would violate the first law concerning food additives in general : Therefore, vitamins cannot be added to alcoholic beverages. The American Medical Association declared the drug company wines “unacceptable” for similar reasons. With these barriers, interest in fortification waned. - The AMA stopped it... what do you think of that?

 

[libertyyne]

By 1940, the alcoholic‐beverage industry was experimentally adding thiamine to its products. Seagram & Sons found it was stable in their whiskey. The California Wine Institute found it was stable in their wines. Anheuser‐Busch found it was stable in their beer.

Nor were the drug companies idle. Both Abbott Laboratories and SmithDorsey Company piloted thiamine‐fortified wines.

But a chill descended. By law, all food additives must be listed on the label. In 1940, a Federal ruling prohibited listing the vitamin content of alcoholic beverages on the label as this would imply that drinking alcohol is healthy — an improper inducement; thus, added vitamins cannot be listed on the label. However, this would violate the first law concerning food additives in general : Therefore, vitamins cannot be added to alcoholic beverages. The American Medical Association declared the drug company wines “unacceptable” for similar reasons. With these barriers, interest in fortification waned. - The AMA stopped it... what do you think of that?

Did you just make that up?

 

[Dr_Jan_Itor]

Alcoholics are rarely drinking beer...

I wonder what the B1 content is of the local alcoholic's favorite in my area is; good ole Natty Daddy's

 

[BurghStudent]

Because you'd get hyperthiaminosis.

 

[Taco Time]

There's always got to B1 student who asks..

 

[neusu]

This is up there with my idea for having all oxycodone tabs pre-mixed with senna.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Did you just make that up?

It's true. I had an ancient physician lecturer 2nd year who did FDA funded research studying vitamin supplementation of boozahol way back in the day. What he told our class is pretty consistent with the poster you quoted said.

 

[Tenk]

They were going to add folate to chocolate but the FDA shut down that too for the same reason.