Why God? Why??

[MonkeyNuts!]

If what you stated occurred to me, then I would have admonished him right there. I would have spoken my mind, and if he continued more by explicitly stating so, then surely I would have embarrassed him, and that school. Though this latter step is harsh, but the moral of the story is: Never make compromises between right and wrong.

First of all, just because someone is not acting professionally doesn't mean you have to abandon professionalism as well. Trying to embarass a school and a faculty member (how would you have gone about this anyway?) seems like it would compromise your own integrity and composure.

And furthermore, you are going to be treated like crap for the rest of your life in medicine. In rotations and residency you are going to get the hell pimped out of you and be belittled to the nth degree. In practice, there are many patients that either due to illness, emotional duress, or just plain sour characters will be rude to you and put you down and smack you around despite the fact that you are just trying to help.

How do you justify your type of reaction in these types of situations? I would find it hard to, because this is a position of service. I would say professionalism and humility over retribution and ego.

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[dopaminesurge]

whoops. NM.

 

[Lindyhopper]

. . .The best process would be to explain politely, as soon as possible, in writing (Im guessing dean of admissions would be difficult to get on phone around this time) exactly what happened leaving out any emotion, insult, threat, etc... Be polite, be respectful. We have a right to a fair interview and most schools will accomodate if you feel that yours was not.

I agree with this approach. I would highlight the fact that you had to stand in the hall. Rudeness etc. are pretty subjective. I think any fair minded person understands that having an interviewee stand in the hall is wierd. Good luck.

 

[zimmie256]

I agree with this approach. I would highlight the fact that you had to stand in the hall. Rudeness etc. are pretty subjective. I think any fair minded person understands that having an interviewee stand in the hall is wierd. Good luck.

Especially since your academic records are supposed to be confidential... Your interviewer had no right to be talking about your grades (good or bad) in a hallway with people walking by...

 

[AdroitDarkHorse]

First of all, just because someone is not acting professionally doesn't mean you have to abandon professionalism as well. Trying to embarass a school and a faculty member (how would you have gone about this anyway?) seems like it would compromise your own integrity and composure.

And furthermore, you are going to be treated like crap for the rest of your life in medicine. In rotations and residency you are going to get the hell pimped out of you and be belittled to the nth degree. In practice, there are many patients that either due to illness, emotional duress, or just plain sour characters will be rude to you and put you down and smack you around despite the fact that you are just trying to help.

How do you justify your type of reaction in these types of situations? I would find it hard to, because this is a position of service. I would say professionalism and humility over retribution and ego.

I would have related to you better residency stories that my personal relatives and friends shared with me. It would be a treat nonetheless to hear and understand it. If you want to, contact me via email. They didn't sacrifice their integrity, dignity, honor, and even one of my friends was a FMG whose integrity was questioned, but at the end they prevailed.

Does your statements hold weight? Perhaps, but to me, definitely NOT. You are not in residency, nor in practice to render any hypothetical scenarios for me.

The situation that the OP described is circumstantial, and for you to deduce everything in medicine or as others mentioned, in life, from my take in this particular scenario, is quite naive. That is faulty logic.

I first mentioned admonishing, and later I had to describe this with the intent of not going there, and beforehand the reason for embarrassing him was he or she was "explicitly" insulting and chastizing me furthermore.

Yes, humility, compassion, humbleness are the attributes we must employ at all times, but then there are times where exceptions to the rules may be broken.

 

[koennen]

Yours? It seems you would sacrifice your soul for a spot. Well thought of.

Mine? I didn't offer any advice, did I? Further, what I would or would not do for a spot in medical school has no relevance to the situation under discussion. (Ad hominem argument, anyone?) But thanks for taking the time to check out some of my posts.

Well thought of??? Wow. That must be too deep for me to understand.

 

[AdroitDarkHorse]

But thanks for taking the time to check out some of my posts.

Likewise

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I would have related to you better residency stories that my personal relatives and friends shared with me. It would be a treat nonetheless to hear and understand it. If you want to, contact me via email. They didn't sacrifice their integrity, dignity, honor, and even one of my friends was a FMG whose integrity was questioned, but at the end they prevailed.

Does your statements hold weight? Perhaps, but to me, definitely NOT. You are not in residency, nor in practice to render any hypothetical scenarios for me.

The situation that the OP described is circumstantial, and for you to deduce everything in medicine or as others mentioned, in life, from my take in this particular scenario, is quite naive. That is faulty logic.

I first mentioned admonishing, and later I had to describe this with the intent of not going there, and beforehand the reason for embarrassing him was he or she was "explicitly" insulting and chastizing me furthermore.

Yes, humility, compassion, humbleness are the attributes we must employ at all times, but then there are times where exceptions to the rules may be broken.

There is lucidly no arrogance in that.

May I ask where you are from? Frankly, I suspect your grasp of American behavioral etiquette is as tenuous as your grasp of the English language, which seems to rely far too heavily on a thesaurus.

 

[AdroitDarkHorse]

May I ask where you are from? Frankly, I suspect your grasp of American behavioral etiquette is as tenuous as your grasp of the English language, which seems to rely far too heavily on a thesaurus.

Are you serious?

Remember, we ship overnight: AdroitDarkHorse's Thesaurus. $39.99

 

[medstylee]

if you want to go to this school and the interview was very recent, call up the admissions dean and tell him/her about your experience.

i had an awful and completely unprofessional interview experience at a school and i just let it go. i eventually was rejected. i spoke with two other people who also had really bad experiences with this same interviewer. so, at that point, i decided i needed to write to the admissions dean to tell her about this particular person. to my surprise, she wrote me back almost immediately and, aside from apologizing, told me that if i had contacted her right after the interview, i would have been granted another interview. luckily, i had zero interest in attending that school after my experience there.

so, it might be worth it to contact the dean asap. good luck

oh, and, while it's probably unprofessional of me to tell, the school was suny downstate. my interview rubbed me the wrong way enough to warrant the bad publicity.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I would have related to you better residency stories that my personal relatives and friends shared with me. It would be a treat nonetheless to hear and understand it. If you want to, contact me via email. They didn't sacrifice their integrity, dignity, honor, and even one of my friends was a FMG whose integrity was questioned, but at the end they prevailed.

Please by all means, share here. If there was a way that you could embarass patients in retaliation WITHOUT putting one's professionalism and integrity in jeopardy, I would like to hear it - and I'm not being sarcastic, I truly am interested in those testimonies and I am sure the others posting on this thread are as well.

Does your statements hold weight? Perhaps, but to me, definitely NOT. You are not in residency, nor in practice to render any hypothetical scenarios for me.

Of course, since you are in residency you would know about those patients and what situations can befall one, if I had known you were in residency I would not have taken such a didactic tone, as you are most likely more than well acquainted with the irrate and insulting patient.

The situation that the OP described is circumstantial, and for you to deduce everything in medicine or as others mentioned, in life, from my take in this particular scenario, is quite naive. That is faulty logic.

I never accused you of using this approach throughout the rest of your life, nor did I say that every patient known to medicine is going to be an dingus. I merely gave an analagous situation to OP, albeit in a different realm of the medical professions, and asked you to justify the approach. I never wrote anything like "zomg AdriotDarkHorse is a cold hearted monster who treats his patients like sh**."

I first mentioned admonishing, and later I had to describe this with the intent of not going there, and beforehand the reason for embarrassing him was he or she was "explicitly" insulting and chastizing me furthermore.

Yes, humility, compassion, humbleness are the attributes we must employ at all times, but then there are times where exceptions to the rules may be broken.

You spoke earlier of "dignity, honor, values that we should uphold" yet you would be responding to insults by trying to embarass the interviewer and his school? That isn't upholding values, that's degrading oneself to the level of the rude individual in question.

Perhaps there is some confusion as to your use of "then surely I would have embarrassed him, and that school" since that is what I and others have picked on from your initial post. I am not saying that taking a strong position in defense is an unwise choice - and yes once you decide not to go to that school, obviously it would be easier to take that stance.

However it is taking a strong position, and then going into an offense - which I took as "embarassing the interviewer and that school" that I have a problem with, because in contrast to what you claim, that would definitely abandon any dignity or honor since you would step out of any bounds of professionalism and in effect become as uncivilized as your attacker.

 

[stoic]

And then the last thing he says after our 15-20 minutes so-called interview is, 'well, I can't tell you that my gut reaction says that you'll be joining us in the fall, but good luck to you.' ...... the worst part? That's probably the nicest thing he said to me all interview.

wow, dudes an ass. unfortunately you'll be exposed to a lot more grumpy professors and attendings as you train. usually as long as you don't start grumping back, you'll later get an apology.

but he's gonna let you in. and he probably feels bad about how he treated you.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Regardless....

OP, Adriot is advocating a more direct and defensive posture than most would advise on this board. Which if that is honestly what you feel is necessary, then do so - whether or not the interviewer is behaving in that manner on purpose, such a show of strength may turn them around, or impress them if it is their intent to give you a stress interview (although you shouldn't stand up to them purely based on the desire to impress them...).

But I would advise doing it within the boundaries of professionalism. I am not too sure what exactly Adriot is suggesting in terms of specific dialogue, but name calling, personal attacks, attacks against the school, and so forth are probably not a good idea. You can be diplomatic and still stand up to someone - you don't want to be argumentative or disruptive, that accomplishes nothing.

The most we can ascertain and anticipate about interviews is that you never know what will happen and that interviews are not always the most true environments, but often sculpted by the interviewer as you are undoubtedly already aware. We can only do our best, and be ourselves, and hope that is enough. If that is what you did, then have no regrets.

 

[gujuDoc]

Yours? It seems you would sacrifice your soul for a spot. Well thought of.

Sadly, I agree with the poster who said that your advice on the matter wouldn't be the best thing to do in a situation. We are in a powerless position and by telling them off we not only reduce ourself to the lack of professionalism that was shown on their part, but we compromise a lot more. If there's one thing I've learned from reading what residents on here say and med students on here say, it is that as hard as it is for us to do there are going to be times when we just have to suck up the chicken**** to use Pandabear MD's favorite words and go with the flow regardless of what happens.

If it makes the OP feel any better, I won't go into details but a friend had a similar experience recently and the guy was 3 times as late as your interviewer was. I think a lot of people will hit that bad interview on the trail but you just have to try your best to not let it get to you because if you start causing all sorts of problems you will only hurt your chances more.

I had a friend that was in a lawsuit with someone really nasty at one of the med schools they were interviewing with and that almost cost him his chance of acceptance. And the lawsuit was actually for a legit reason. But in the end they hushed everything and settled the differences out of court and because the student cooperated they got in otherwise they'd be SOL since they didn't have many other acceptances. That's just one example, albeit an extreme one. But my point is that to open your mouth and start arguing isn't always the wisest thing while it might feel liberating to be able to say how it makes you feel.

Conversely, I've had friends who had bad interview experiences and still get accepted to those given schools while they were rejected from some schools they thought they had positive interview experiences at. Just suck it up and try to pray for the best.

 

[gujuDoc]

Regardless....

OP, Adriot is advocating a more direct and defensive posture than most would advise on this board. Which if that is honestly what you feel is necessary, then do so - whether or not the interviewer is behaving in that manner on purpose, such a show of strength may turn them around, or impress them if it is their intent to give you a stress interview (although you shouldn't stand up to them purely based on the desire to impress them...).

But I would advise doing it within the boundaries of professionalism. I am not too sure what exactly Adriot is suggesting in terms of specific dialogue, but name calling, personal attacks, attacks against the school, and so forth are probably not a good idea. You can be diplomatic and still stand up to someone - you don't want to be argumentative or disruptive, that accomplishes nothing.

The most we can ascertain and anticipate about interviews is that you never know what will happen and that interviews are not always the most true environments, but often sculpted by the interviewer as you are undoubtedly already aware. We can only do our best, and be ourselves, and hope that is enough. If that is what you did, then have no regrets.

GOOD POST!!!!

One thing I'd like to add is that while this was not the greatest experience and you did not deserve it, a lot of these interviewers are the physicians themselves who are often late due to having to see patients or maybe having been paged at the last minute. Perhaps something happened right before you came and you were at the wrong place at the wrong time so to speak. But follow eternal's advice and be diplomatic but not overly emotional or defensive if you do feel the need to speak with them on the matter.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Why did this turn into a patient/doctor scenario? This has nothing to do with patients or doctors. It's about a student interviewing for a spot at a school and an interviewer being a complete unprofessional jerkoff with intentions of humiliating and degrading the OP. I don't know why anyone is even mentioning patients or doctors or residency.....it doesn't matter because that's not what this scenario is. It's completely different and you can't relate the two.

He is the professional in this situation. The student is not. He acted in a completely unprofessional manner and he deserves to know about it.

 

[DrKitty]

if you want to go to this school and the interview was very recent, call up the admissions dean and tell him/her about your experience.

i had an awful and completely unprofessional interview experience at a school and i just let it go. i eventually was rejected. i spoke with two other people who also had really bad experiences with this same interviewer. so, at that point, i decided i needed to write to the admissions dean to tell her about this particular person. to my surprise, she wrote me back almost immediately and, aside from apologizing, told me that if i had contacted her right after the interview, i would have been granted another interview. luckily, i had zero interest in attending that school after my experience there.

so, it might be worth it to contact the dean asap. good luck

oh, and, while it's probably unprofessional of me to tell, the school was suny downstate. my interview rubbed me the wrong way enough to warrant the bad publicity.

Wow, medstylee, I had to reply to your post because exactly the same thing happened to me at the same school. I had the most aweful, unprofessional (still unbelievable!) interview experience at SUNY Downstate and was ultimately rejected after no movement on the waitlist at the end of the summer. I went into that interview thinking of that school as my first choice (and I don't mean to badmouth the school, I really wanted to go there), and I was so torn after my interview there as to whether I should write to the Dean to let them know of my horrible interview situation or whether to let it go. I ended up doing the latter, the school really left a bad impression on me, I could not imagine how I would fit in there after my interview experience. I also thought that by complaining, I would more likely destroy my chances for acceptance if there were any of them left. I am happy at the school I am currently in, but looking back, I regret not speaking up and voicing my concerns - who knows, I might have gotten another interview and maybe even an acceptance.

So, to the OP, I think you should e-mail the dean and explain the situation if this interview is fairly recent, and especially, if you already have an acceptance to another school. If not, I guess it is a gut feeling in terms of what to do. It suckes that it happened - bad luck, but life is always full of surprises.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Why did this turn into a patient/doctor scenario? This has nothing to do with patients or doctors. It's about a student interviewing for a spot at a school and an interviewer being a complete unprofessional jerkoff with intentions of humiliating and degrading the OP. I don't know why anyone is even mentioning patients or doctors or residency.....it doesn't matter because that's not what this scenario is. It's completely different and you can't relate the two.

He is the professional in this situation. The student is not. He acted in a completely unprofessional manner and he deserves to know about it.

Uh that's probably my (and one or two others) fault for applying Adriot's approach to other realms of medical and non medical professions - particularly the "embarassing the interviewer and his school" bit. Just trying to explain that fighting rudeness with rudeness doesn't usually work.

 

[AdroitDarkHorse]

Please by all means, share here. If there was a way that you could embarass patients in retaliation WITHOUT putting one's professionalism and integrity in jeopardy, I would like to hear it - and I'm not being sarcastic, I truly am interested in those testimonies and I am sure the others posting on this thread are as well.

First of all, you are viewing the application to be universal in all situations. The intentions behind all the situations are different. It is erroneous to view all situations the same. Admonishing them and embarrassing are two different things. I stated to admonish them with the intent of not going there since the offense has been made. If further insults were made towards me, I would "embarras" them. The situations that I vaguely described about the U.S residents and some FMGs are in terms of admonishing, due to the fact their integrity was questioned. So why did you deduce it being embarrasing, unjustly? Buddy, if you wish to know, then via email, as I mentioned. I cannot infringe their rights of privacy. Please understand. Hence, the reason why I stated email contact, is that I may know you better than this forum medium, as a forum medium is limited in terms of communication. From that email, then I may get your name, contact/telephone numbers, and then we can progress.

Of course, since you are in residency you would know about those patients and what situations can befall one, if I had known you were in residency I would not have taken such a didactic tone, as you are most likely more than well acquainted with the irrate and insulting patient.

Your hypothetical situations that you thwarted at me are highly subjective. Despite your sarcastic tone, if it is one, I am not a resident, and nor are you, but you brought those scenarios in your previous post. The burden of proof was not on me, it was on you since you mentioned residencies and then followed with this question: How do you justify your type of reaction in these types of situations? Furthermore, you wrongly assumed those residents that I vaguely pointed out as "embarrassing" their patients. It had to due with them questioning their medical directors and chief residents. Hence, this would fall more in line with admonishing them, and similarily this can be compared with the interviewer/interviewee scenario. They didn't compromise their integrity, dignity, honor, morals, etc.

I never accused you of using this approach throughout the rest of your life, nor did I say that every patient known to medicine is going to be an dingus. I merely gave an analagous situation to OP, albeit in a different realm of the medical professions, and asked you to justify the approach. I never wrote anything like "zomg AdriotDarkHorse is a cold hearted monster who treats his patients like sh**.".

I believe you misunderstood me, perhaps largely due to the medium we employ: The forum. I was quoted and then the scenarios and the rhetorical question came at the end.

You spoke earlier of "dignity, honor, values that we should uphold" yet you would be responding to insults by trying to embarass the interviewer and his school? That isn't upholding values, that's degrading oneself to the level of the rude individual in question.

Like I said before, different strokes for different folks. There are many sayings of sages that counter what you mentioned above, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Perhaps there is some confusion as to your use of "then surely I would have embarrassed him, and that school" since that is what I and others have picked on from your initial post. I am not saying that taking a strong position in defense is an unwise choice - and yes once you decide not to go to that school, obviously it would be easier to take that stance.

"I" believe that only the embarrassing part can be applicable in this situation if further insults continued. I have mentioned that before. No other situation should apply or be assumed of based on this situation.

However it is taking a strong position, and then going into an offense - which I took as "embarassing the interviewer and that school" that I have a problem with, because in contrast to what you claim, that would definitely abandon any dignity or honor since you would step out of any bounds of professionalism and in effect become as uncivilized as your attacker.

Again, different philosophies of life can be applicable, and who is one to say one is better than the other? Such views should not be imposed.

 

[AdroitDarkHorse]

Last post in this thread.

The intent of all in this thread was to back up the OP. We all are in agreement there. We have different means of tackling the issue.

 

[kdburton]

I had the misfortune of experiencing perhaps THE worst medical school interview known to mankind. And all my previous experiences have been pretty positive in comparison.

So I'm waiting for my interviewer (who is running late) outside of the admissions office, and he comes running in about 15 minutes late. First, he proceeds to have some kind of hushed, heated discussion with one of the secretaries and the only thing I can distinctly hear from their conversation is my interviewer saying "don't you dare disturb me again!!!" So clearly I'm already thinking, great....just great.

He turns to me, and I stand up and say hi and start to reach my hand out for a handshake, and he rolls his eyes and really exasperatedly says 'follow me'. He doesn't even introduce himself or bother to say hello, and I have to walk behind him to his office.

Then we get to his office and he unlocks the door and walks in, and naturally I follow him, when he turns around and goes 'excuse me, excuse me, young lady...did i give you permission to enter my office?' And I'm just completely taken aback at this point, ready to cry. So I just stand in the hallway while he rummages around and does God knows what. I just figured it wasn't wrong for me to assume I could sit in the chair in his office while he 'got settled'.

So then he comes to the doorway while holding my file and DOESN'T let me in, and starts with the questions as I'm standing in the hallway, and he's leaning against the doorway. His questions weren't particularly difficult or involved, and it was obvious he was in a really bad mood and did not care to really listen to my responses. There were people walking through the hallway, for God's sakes, while he was asking me about a grade from my first semester Orgo class. It was beyond humiliating.

And then the last thing he says after our 15-20 minutes so-called interview is, 'well, I can't tell you that my gut reaction says that you'll be joining us in the fall, but good luck to you.' ...... the worst part? That's probably the nicest thing he said to me all interview.

I don't know what I'm feeling right now, but I could use a hit of Zoloft.

You might be surprised... I know a lot of companies that "stress interview" applicants to see how they react. This is especially true if the applicant seems to be well qualified, but they just want to do a little extra to check you out. In most cases as long the person doesn't freak out then they get the job. What kind of stats do you have??? I know that corporate interviews are different than med school interviews in some respects, but it could be the same.

 

[NervousNed]

i hate to say it but this thread it turning hateful, i think we need to focus our hatred on the interviewer, not on each other, we all have different opinions, but i think we can all agree that the interviewer was mean, and that the weather in florida is signifigantly better than in other northern parts of the country

 

[Eric Lindros]

Just trying to explain that fighting rudeness with rudeness doesn't usually work.

And all joking aside, I agree 100%. But I definitely think this dude should never interview another student again. It's bad for the school, profession, etc.

 

[DrMidlife]

I agree that this interview behavior was unacceptable, because in a stress interview (where the interviewer specifically probes for candidate behavior under stress) it's customary to let the candidate know afterwards that they were being tested for stress behavior. Sometimes a later interviewer lets the candidate know. DEFINITELY if the candidate appears flustered by the stress test, they're reassured and brought back down to earth. A candidate who isn't going to be accepted has friends back home who might; this is simple PR.

In my past life in industry, I interviewed maybe 150 candidates and was interviewed myself maybe 70 or 80 times. This industry is notorious for grilling candidates, who are interviewed 6 or more times over the course of a day. A standard stress behavior test is to stop at a vending machine on the way to the interviewer's office, where he/she throws a tantrum when it doesn't give up a candy bar. For extra points the interviewer shakes the machine, yells and kicks it. At this point the candidate is expected to be officially caught off guard. Then, after making the candidate continue down the hall to the office, the interviewer, still in full tantrum, asks the candidate to list three usability problems with the vending machine. We wanted to see candidates who could still function in the face of an angry interviewer. Then the interviewer stops, apologizes, explains, and if the candidate is still breathing, hopefully has a productive discussion about how actual users react that way when products are poorly designed.

No interviewer should communicate that a candidate is wasting his/her time, unless it's for a good reason, followed by an apology. This thread's interview story is about a lack of professionalism, in my view, and I see it as perfectly appropriate to raise it with the dean of admissions.

Best of luck to you.

 

[undrcovrgunner]

if i were you i would write the school and tell them what happened. that is unacceptable behavior.

Agreed. I'm not sure how someone can do that to another person, especially with the stress that comes with an interview.

 

[stoic]

don't fight battles you can't win. this is one of them.

everyone at the school knows that dude is or can be an ass. they haven't fired him yet.

moral stands are good and such, but in practice.... like i said before, this won't be the last time you're treated like **** for no reason because someone is in a bad mood. it happens far too often in this field.

 

[xylem29]

I had the misfortune of experiencing perhaps THE worst medical school interview known to mankind. And all my previous experiences have been pretty positive in comparison.

So I'm waiting for my interviewer (who is running late) outside of the admissions office, and he comes running in about 15 minutes late. First, he proceeds to have some kind of hushed, heated discussion with one of the secretaries and the only thing I can distinctly hear from their conversation is my interviewer saying "don't you dare disturb me again!!!" So clearly I'm already thinking, great....just great.

He turns to me, and I stand up and say hi and start to reach my hand out for a handshake, and he rolls his eyes and really exasperatedly says 'follow me'. He doesn't even introduce himself or bother to say hello, and I have to walk behind him to his office.

Then we get to his office and he unlocks the door and walks in, and naturally I follow him, when he turns around and goes 'excuse me, excuse me, young lady...did i give you permission to enter my office?' And I'm just completely taken aback at this point, ready to cry. So I just stand in the hallway while he rummages around and does God knows what. I just figured it wasn't wrong for me to assume I could sit in the chair in his office while he 'got settled'.

So then he comes to the doorway while holding my file and DOESN'T let me in, and starts with the questions as I'm standing in the hallway, and he's leaning against the doorway. His questions weren't particularly difficult or involved, and it was obvious he was in a really bad mood and did not care to really listen to my responses. There were people walking through the hallway, for God's sakes, while he was asking me about a grade from my first semester Orgo class. It was beyond humiliating.

And then the last thing he says after our 15-20 minutes so-called interview is, 'well, I can't tell you that my gut reaction says that you'll be joining us in the fall, but good luck to you.' ...... the worst part? That's probably the nicest thing he said to me all interview.

I don't know what I'm feeling right now, but I could use a hit of Zoloft.

wow - that's terrible...he interviewed you in the friggin hallway??? I think when people post these interviews from hell stories, they should mention the school too.

 

[foofish]

Also, what if this Dr. decides to deny any wrongdoing? What then? Am I pretty much going to be blacklisted from this school? I should add that I know another girl who interviewed with him and she claims he was normal. Not friendly, but normal. Even let her sit down in his office, if you could imagine that level of kindness.

Well, since this freakshow of an interview began with him screaming at the admissions secretaries, they can probably back up your story. Unless he's a voting member, I don't think he could blacklist you.....and just think, if you don't do anything, he said you probably won't get in, so the worst that could happen if you complain is that you still don't get in.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

First of all, you are viewing the application to be universal in all situations. The intentions behind all the situations are different. It is erroneous to view all situations the same. Admonishing them and embarrassing are two different things. I stated to admonish them with the intent of not going there since the offense has been made. If further insults were made towards me, I would "embarras" them.

I don't have a problem with "admonishing" them, as I said before, a direct defensive approach can be done with professional diplomacy. It is "embarassing" someone, a form of retaliation, that I have a problem with.

The situations that I vaguely described about the U.S residents and some FMGs are in terms of admonishing, due to the fact their integrity was questioned. So why did you deduce it being embarrasing, unjustly?

"even one of my friends was a FMG whose integrity was questioned, but at the end they prevailed" - took that to mean he followed the same efforts in "embarassing" a patient. If not, then yes I just assumed you meant they embarassed their patients too, since you vaguely referenced these anecdotes to justify your position.

Buddy, if you wish to know, then via email, as I mentioned. I cannot infringe their rights of privacy. Please understand. Hence, the reason why I stated email contact, is that I may know you better than this forum medium, as a forum medium is limited in terms of communication. From that email, then I may get your name, contact/telephone numbers, and then we can progress.

Fair enough, I didn't want the your friends' names and their patients names' or anything, just wanted to know how they did it.

Your hypothetical situations that you thwarted at me are highly subjective. Despite your sarcastic tone, if it is one, I am not a resident, and nor are you, but you brought those scenarios in your previous post. The burden of proof was not on me, it was on you since you mentioned residencies and then followed with this question: How do you justify your type of reaction in these types of situations?

How is the burden of proof on me to justify your position? Perhaps the burden is on me to justify my perspective in these situations (which are not entirely hypothetical, I've had patients yell at me and insult me, just not in residency). Which in that case I simply cite professionalism and principles of benevelance and non maleficience in a medical setting to justify not embarassing a patient, faculty, doctor, whatever.

Furthermore, you wrongly assumed those residents that I vaguely pointed out as "embarrassing" their patients. It had to due with them questioning their medical directors and chief residents. Hence, this would fall more in line with admonishing them, and similarily this can be compared with the interviewer/interviewee scenario. They didn't compromise their integrity, dignity, honor, morals, etc.

And as i have mentioned frequently already, I have no problem with admonishment since it can be done professionally. I assumed they were "embarassing" their patients since you brought up these anecdotes to support your actions if you were in the OP's position. That's also why I wanted to ask for you to disclose some of them because I really didn't think it was possible to "embarass" a patient, regardless of what they said/did to you, and regardless of whether you admonished them or not.

I believe you misunderstood me, perhaps largely due to the medium we employ: The forum. I was quoted and then the scenarios and the rhetorical question came at the end.

Perhaps. I didn't know what you were trying to support specifically with your mention of your friends in similar positions. Again, I have no problem with admonishment, it can be constructive, if done in a polite manner and with the goal of learning.

Like I said before, different strokes for different folks. There are many sayings of sages that counter what you mentioned above, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Perhaps, but I believe trying to "embarass" someone by attacking their person or their school is a poor way to handle the situation.

"I" believe that only the embarrassing part can be applicable in this situation if further insults continued. I have mentioned that before. No other situation should apply or be assumed of based on this situation.

You mean embarassing them following admonishment. So if diplomacy fails, you mirror the abuse. Fine, if that is what works for you, so be it. In terms of interviews, if they abused you, you admonish them, which can be constructive to take a strong stance, but most people on this forum would draw the line before that. I think even fewer would consider the option of "embarassing" the interviewer, regardless of whether or not you decided to attend the school, since rudeness is rudeness no matter what the circumstances.

Again, different philosophies of life can be applicable, and who is one to say one is better than the other? Such views should not be imposed.

Admonishing, one last time, is fine. Trying to embarass someone, especially a patient or fellow collegue in retaliation, whether or not you admonished them, is never acceptable, and if you think it is, better take a course in professionalism and ethics.

 

[Haemulon]

wow - that's terrible...he interviewed you in the friggin hallway??? I think when people post these interviews from hell stories, they should mention the school too.

My interviewer followed me into the men's room and interviewed me there. And she was a woman!


j/k

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

And all joking aside, I agree 100%. But I definitely think this dude should never interview another student again. It's bad for the school, profession, etc.

At least that we somewhat all agree on.

 

[em783]

Well, well, well ... I guess the plot thickens?

I decided to call the admissions office yesterday and asked to speak to the secretary working at the specific time I interviewed (since I didn't remember her name), and she was miraculously there to speak. So I just refreshed her memory as to the date I interviewed and the interviewer I had, and she then remembered who I was. I didn't want to go into too much detail with her, just because I felt the Dean was more important to get into details with (if he was even available).

So the secretary basically apologized profusely for the situation and sounded like she was expecting the call, which led me to think this type of thing had happened before or that she somehow knew he was going to treat me this way. And I directly asked her had there been complaints of this nature before, and she actually told me that noone had complained about this interviewer before, but she eventually let on (with some initial hesitation) that another physician on the committee there had his office door open and HEARD THE WHOLE THING while the interviewer was grilling me in the hallway and actually reported my interviewer!!!!

Then the secretary told me that if I spoke with the dean I could most likely get another interview. So basically I talked to the associate dean later yesterday, which was reallllly nerve-wracking for me as I could only imagine what his response would be....not to mention I didn't have a chance to have my little spiel written out.

And what it all resulted in was an apology, a very surprised-sounding dean because he claimed they have never had a problem like this before with my interviewer and he had 'never exhibited these unpleasant signs before'......by the way, unpleasant seemed a rather mild word for him to use. He made it a point to repeat that their school does not endorse these kinds of interviewing techniques as a 'stress' interview, and that my interviewer's behavior towards me was unacceptable and 'in no way representative of our school's treatment of students...or people in general'.

So (drum roll, please) I have another interview with them!!! However, the dean made it very clear to me that they will speak to my interviewer, but they do not plan on removing him from the admissions staff. And, yes, he is on the board. That is a definite downside, and I can only imagine what I had done to deserve this seemingly random wrath. I'm just praying I don't happen to see him on my new re-interview.

Thanks to everyone, so very much, for your words of advice and support. I seriously have never felt that way before, but I'm shocked that something good actually came out of this. I still am wondering, though, what would warrant a harsher reprimanding to my interviewer....physical abuse? Racial slurs?

Let's hope nobody else has to find out!

 

[Eric Lindros]

Thanks to everyone, so very much, for your words of advice and support. I seriously have never felt that way before, but I'm shocked that something good actually came out of this. I still am wondering, though, what would warrant a harsher reprimanding to my interviewer....physical abuse? Racial slurs?
Let's hope nobody else has to find out!

First of all, congratulations on getting at least a little justice in this whole mess I was pretty sure that this school wouldn't endorse that type of interview and like I said, they would at least have told you about it at the end, as to make sure you didn't leave upset like you were.

Those things you mentioned last would definitely get the interviewer removed from the adcom, if not fired from his regular job (whatever it is)

If I were you, I would take care of you business at the interview, but write a follow up letter after (if you really want to go to your school) saying something along the lines of "Hey, I was treated like **** at your school but I am really still interested. Thank you for the second opportunity, etc" This way you will be letting more people know about what happened.

 

[SilkandSteel]

Wooohoo! Score one for the med school applicants! Congratulations!

You were extremely lucky to have someone else hear the whole thing and report your interviewer. What a great guy that physician must be. I think that something like that should alleviate any qualms you have about going to this school - obviously some of their faculty are really nice and decent people.

I wouldn't worry overly about this guy being on the board. One would assume that some sort of note about this horrendous interview experience would be made in your file, and that when your application went to committee he would be taken out of the vote for reasons of conflict of interest, etc. At least, one would hope.

Best of luck on your reinterview!

~Silk and Steel

 

[TPROrgoTutor2]

Perfect. You approached it in an adult, respectful, mature manner and you got a positive result. Glad to see that worked out.

 

[amathew]

Some of the worst advice I've ever seen on SDN.

I kind of agree. I mean, not ruling the stress interview theory out, med school and beyond, we have to deal with residents and doctors who might be on power trip. And its all about how you compose yourself through the interview that shows whether or not you can handle it in the future.

That said, I'm one of those people who speaks her mind, and most likely in your position I might have had said something along the lines of whether i could be interviewed by someone else. Or maybe not. Who knows. I'm sorry you went through that. Atleast be glad it wasn't your first and only interview. That would have made this whole process exponentially worse.

 

[gujuDoc]

Well, well, well ... I guess the plot thickens?

I decided to call the admissions office yesterday and asked to speak to the secretary working at the specific time I interviewed (since I didn't remember her name), and she was miraculously there to speak. So I just refreshed her memory as to the date I interviewed and the interviewer I had, and she then remembered who I was. I didn't want to go into too much detail with her, just because I felt the Dean was more important to get into details with (if he was even available).

So the secretary basically apologized profusely for the situation and sounded like she was expecting the call, which led me to think this type of thing had happened before or that she somehow knew he was going to treat me this way. And I directly asked her had there been complaints of this nature before, and she actually told me that noone had complained about this interviewer before, but she eventually let on (with some initial hesitation) that another physician on the committee there had his office door open and HEARD THE WHOLE THING while the interviewer was grilling me in the hallway and actually reported my interviewer!!!!

Then the secretary told me that if I spoke with the dean I could most likely get another interview. So basically I talked to the associate dean later yesterday, which was reallllly nerve-wracking for me as I could only imagine what his response would be....not to mention I didn't have a chance to have my little spiel written out.

And what it all resulted in was an apology, a very surprised-sounding dean because he claimed they have never had a problem like this before with my interviewer and he had 'never exhibited these unpleasant signs before'......by the way, unpleasant seemed a rather mild word for him to use. He made it a point to repeat that their school does not endorse these kinds of interviewing techniques as a 'stress' interview, and that my interviewer's behavior towards me was unacceptable and 'in no way representative of our school's treatment of students...or people in general'.

So (drum roll, please) I have another interview with them!!! However, the dean made it very clear to me that they will speak to my interviewer, but they do not plan on removing him from the admissions staff. And, yes, he is on the board. That is a definite downside, and I can only imagine what I had done to deserve this seemingly random wrath. I'm just praying I don't happen to see him on my new re-interview.

Thanks to everyone, so very much, for your words of advice and support. I seriously have never felt that way before, but I'm shocked that something good actually came out of this. I still am wondering, though, what would warrant a harsher reprimanding to my interviewer....physical abuse? Racial slurs?

Let's hope nobody else has to find out!

Congratulations on getting another interview! Goodluck. Hopefully it will go better this time around.

From what I've read here it sounds like it may have really been a super high stress day for that physician and maybe he was paged and had an emergency to attend to or a fight with someone on staff and was not in a good mood with you being caught between the middle by being at the wrong place at the wrong time so to speak. In other words, from what you've said it seems that it was not you per say but perhaps something else that set him off.

 

[em783]

OK I really must add this. Um, so I just checked my email and apparently my wonderful, now-infamous interviewer decided to send me a little message. I'll copy and paste it for your enjoyment. I'm confused as to whether this guy thinks this is an apology??? I really could have cared less about an apology from him, by the way!:


"I recently interviewed you as a candidate for our College of Medicine class of 2011 and was notified that you found the interview to be an unfavorable experience. I am sorry you feel that way. Good luck."


HAH. This man is certifiable. Everyone knows that's the ultimate anti-apology. I could care less at this point, now that I have a rescheduled interview, but damn.

 

[Eric Lindros]

OK I really must add this. Um, so I just checked my email and apparently my wonderful, now-infamous interviewer decided to send me a little message. I'll copy and paste it for your enjoyment. I'm confused as to whether this guy thinks this is an apology??? I really could have cared less about an apology from him, by the way!:


"I recently interviewed you as a candidate for our College of Medicine class of 2011 and was notified that you found the interview to be an unfavorable experience. I am sorry you feel that way. Good luck."


HAH. This man is certifiable. Everyone knows that's the ultimate anti-apology. I could care less at this point, now that I have a rescheduled interview, but damn.

What a prick

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I kind of agree. I mean, not ruling the stress interview theory out, med school and beyond, we have to deal with residents and doctors who might be on power trip. And its all about how you compose yourself through the interview that shows whether or not you can handle it in the future.

That said, I'm one of those people who speaks her mind, and most likely in your position I might have had said something along the lines of whether i could be interviewed by someone else. Or maybe not. Who knows. I'm sorry you went through that. Atleast be glad it wasn't your first and only interview. That would have made this whole process exponentially worse.

Hah don't bother. I already brought up the scenario to AdriotDarkHorse that we will have to face this in the future with patients, residents, and doctors. Hell, it's a situation I face now when dealing with some patients.

Admonishing may be an option but not always. Adriot and I seem to agree on this, though I believe he thinks I don't. As for embarassing the patient/resident/doctor/interviewer in retaliation, I completely disagree with that course of action, and Adriot still hasn't answered the question of how one would go about doing that in the first place... Name calling? Personal attacks?

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Well, well, well ... I guess the plot thickens?

I decided to call the admissions office yesterday and asked to speak to the secretary working at the specific time I interviewed (since I didn't remember her name), and she was miraculously there to speak. So I just refreshed her memory as to the date I interviewed and the interviewer I had, and she then remembered who I was. I didn't want to go into too much detail with her, just because I felt the Dean was more important to get into details with (if he was even available).

So the secretary basically apologized profusely for the situation and sounded like she was expecting the call, which led me to think this type of thing had happened before or that she somehow knew he was going to treat me this way. And I directly asked her had there been complaints of this nature before, and she actually told me that noone had complained about this interviewer before, but she eventually let on (with some initial hesitation) that another physician on the committee there had his office door open and HEARD THE WHOLE THING while the interviewer was grilling me in the hallway and actually reported my interviewer!!!!

Then the secretary told me that if I spoke with the dean I could most likely get another interview. So basically I talked to the associate dean later yesterday, which was reallllly nerve-wracking for me as I could only imagine what his response would be....not to mention I didn't have a chance to have my little spiel written out.

And what it all resulted in was an apology, a very surprised-sounding dean because he claimed they have never had a problem like this before with my interviewer and he had 'never exhibited these unpleasant signs before'......by the way, unpleasant seemed a rather mild word for him to use. He made it a point to repeat that their school does not endorse these kinds of interviewing techniques as a 'stress' interview, and that my interviewer's behavior towards me was unacceptable and 'in no way representative of our school's treatment of students...or people in general'.

So (drum roll, please) I have another interview with them!!! However, the dean made it very clear to me that they will speak to my interviewer, but they do not plan on removing him from the admissions staff. And, yes, he is on the board. That is a definite downside, and I can only imagine what I had done to deserve this seemingly random wrath. I'm just praying I don't happen to see him on my new re-interview.

Thanks to everyone, so very much, for your words of advice and support. I seriously have never felt that way before, but I'm shocked that something good actually came out of this. I still am wondering, though, what would warrant a harsher reprimanding to my interviewer....physical abuse? Racial slurs?

Let's hope nobody else has to find out!

Well done. Diplomacy wins the day.

OK I really must add this. Um, so I just checked my email and apparently my wonderful, now-infamous interviewer decided to send me a little message. I'll copy and paste it for your enjoyment. I'm confused as to whether this guy thinks this is an apology??? I really could have cared less about an apology from him, by the way!:


"I recently interviewed you as a candidate for our College of Medicine class of 2011 and was notified that you found the interview to be an unfavorable experience. I am sorry you feel that way. Good luck."

His diplomacy sux.

 

[alwaysaangel]

OK I really must add this. Um, so I just checked my email and apparently my wonderful, now-infamous interviewer decided to send me a little message. I'll copy and paste it for your enjoyment. I'm confused as to whether this guy thinks this is an apology??? I really could have cared less about an apology from him, by the way!:


"I recently interviewed you as a candidate for our College of Medicine class of 2011 and was notified that you found the interview to be an unfavorable experience. I am sorry you feel that way. Good luck."


HAH. This man is certifiable. Everyone knows that's the ultimate anti-apology. I could care less at this point, now that I have a rescheduled interview, but damn.

Haha wow what a quack. Do be careful though - he is still on the adcomm and might remember you when voting comes up. That would suck - hopefully the dean takes that into account.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Haha wow what a quack. Do be careful though - he is still on the adcomm and might remember you when voting comes up. That would suck - hopefully the dean takes that into account.

Maybe since he may not be an objective interviewer anymore they might not count his vote, but thats wishful thinking, who knows.

 

[gujuDoc]

Haha wow what a quack. Do be careful though - he is still on the adcomm and might remember you when voting comes up. That would suck - hopefully the dean takes that into account.

But on the bright side of things, at least the OP has a witness to prove their story and it was another doctor so that must count for something.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

You can't assume it was the guy's bad mood that caused you to be rejected from the school.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

You can't assume it was the guy's bad mood that caused you to be rejected from the school.

Shes not rejected, he just said she would be at the itnerview

 

[KaraKiz]

Well, well, well ... I guess the plot thickens?

I decided to call the admissions office yesterday....

And what it all resulted in was an apology, a very surprised-sounding dean because he claimed they have never had a problem like this before with my interviewer and he had 'never exhibited these unpleasant signs before'......by the way, unpleasant seemed a rather mild word for him to use. He made it a point to repeat that their school does not endorse these kinds of interviewing techniques as a 'stress' interview, and that my interviewer's behavior towards me was unacceptable and 'in no way representative of our school's treatment of students...or people in general'.

So (drum roll, please) I have another interview with them!!!

You go girl! Word to your momma's momma.

 

[DrZeke]

Some of the worst advice I've ever seen on SDN.

Agreed...and that "I'm assuming you're a woman"...makes me embarrassed to live in a Southern state.

 

[ICCONFETTI]

definitely notify the admissions office about their bad interviewer.

 

[DrZeke]

I agree with this approach. I would highlight the fact that you had to stand in the hall. Rudeness etc. are pretty subjective. I think any fair minded person understands that having an interviewee stand in the hall is wierd. Good luck.

In WRITING?!?!

Are you kidding me...maybe email...but I would try by phone. By the time you write your decision might be made...Be polite, but serious about how upseting the situation was, and who you might talk to for some resolution and possibly an additional interview.