Why I chose the Caribbean route over DO

[Hopeful DO]

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Hi everyone. I attend a college that has a DO school associated with it, and so I have developed a respect and appreciation for the DO route. However, I wanted to say why I chose to attend St. George Medical School instead of any DO school in the U.S. (Maybe someone is debating the two as well).

1. It gives a physician universal medical power (All countries recognize the MD degree, and all 50 states recognize St. George Medical School). Now this is particularly important if you want to work internationally (like me) - specifically in areas of Asia and Africa, where DO powers are strictly limited if not recognized at all).

2. The key osteopathic principles can be easily adhered to by an allopathic physician. (Structure = Function, The recognition of the body-mind-soul connection, and the recognition that the body has the ability to heal itself can all be taken into account in the mind of the allopathic physician).

3. Though OMT is a wonderful and important technique, it does not justify the creation of an entirely new profession. I believe that OMT is far too small of a difference to create an entirely new medical profession. Instead, I believe that OMT should be offered as an elective or incorporated into the allopathic curriculum. In addition, if OMT was indeed such a powerful technique, more DO's would use it in their practice, but only a fraction of DO's use it on a regular basis.

4. If the DO philosophy is only equal to the allopathic, then why put up with all the unnecessary hardships associated with being a osteopath, where 9 out 10 don't even know what an osteopath is, international practice rights, etc.


I hope a positive engaging discussion can follow as a result of this post. I am more than happy to listen to any defense anyone would like to present. (I too seriously thought about becoming a DO, hence the screen name.) 🙂

 

[pjc199]

What always bothered me was the fact that most states DO NOT allow DO's to employ or manage Physician Assistants. However, MD's have full rights to do so. Quite an interesting tidbit.

 

[group_theory]

Well, it seems like you have looked at the issues and made a decision. While I may not agree with some of your conclusions, I will respect the fact that you took time thinking and investinging the issues.

Not really going to discuss these issues because they have been discussed ad nauseum here on SDN

Best of luck to you and your future and good luck on the island of Grenada

Edit: To the PA issues, please list some of the states in question. I don't see any prohibition according to AAPA
http://www.aapa.org/gandp/statelaw.html

 

[stoic]

What always bothered me was the fact that most states DO NOT allow DO's to employ or manage Physician Assistants. However, MD's have full rights to do so. Quite an interesting tidbit.

What states are you talking about? I've heard of some funkiness in PA (where DO's can't have np's or pa's writing scripts), but other than that I've never heard of a distinction.

I'm not sure that it would be legal to make one.

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

Hmmm......that stuff about PA's is INCORRECT. I'd like to know where you received that information. There are no differences in the practice rights of licensed MD's or DO's. Both are equally recognized medical degrees under the law. Here is an excerpt on the practice rights of PA's from the AAPA.;

"Any licensed physician (M.D. or D.O.) may supervise a PA unless the physician's ability to supervise has been limited by specific disciplinary action."

HERE IS THE SOURCE: http://www.aapa.org/gandp/modelaw.html


As for going foreign.......I really think the only positive is if you want to practice internationally. Other than that, there are a lot more hurdles you have to deal with. Unfortunately you will find that there will be many residency programs that will be unwilling to even consider you.

When I applied, I applied allo, osteo, and foreign. I was lucky to have a choice of all 3. I initially assumed I would go allo, but after interviewing here and doing research at ucla with a D.O., I made the choice to come here. ( I was a little worried because I too had the typical pre-med concern about becoming a DO ).

But I have to tell you, there is VERY little bias you will ever hear or feel as a DO. When I was making the decision on where to go, a DME of a residency program at ucla told me this; "When we look at residency applications, we don't even look twice when a DO applies. But when we get a foreign grad, we look 3 times." This doesn't mean that you can't get into a residency program as a foreign grad, but there will definitely be fewer choices. And qutie often, if you aren't in a good program, you won't get fellowships.

I'm from southern california, and that's where I will end up going back, so a lot of my decisions came from the fact that there are DO residents at all of the major institutions there.

In the end, each one of us will be a physician. So it's all just different means to an end. But I seriously feel that if you have the choice to stay in the U.S., then by all means stay.

( I can also say that I did a lot of research into St. George's.....I even decided to fly there for the interview. And after being there a few days.....I couldn't wait to leave!)

I wholeheartedly wish you the best of luck though.

 

[Leukocyte]

1. It gives a physician universal medical power (All countries recognize the MD degree, and all 50 states recognize St. George Medical School).

Currently, Texas does not recognize any Carib. school that caters to US students as "substantialy equivalent" to Texas medical schools for the purpose of licensure.

Here is a link for you:

http://www.tsbme.state.tx.us/professionals/docinfo/STDNHPSE.rtf

As you can see, there is "none" next to Grenada, as well as the other Carib. islands.

You can do your residency there, but they are making it almost impossible for Carib. grads to get a permanent license after residency.

The good news however is that Ross is pushing hard to change this for all legit. Carib. schools.

Please contact the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners if you need more information.

Good Luck

 

[captbadass]

(I too seriously thought about becoming a DO, hence the screen name.) 🙂

so you were so committed to becoming a DO that you hinted to it in your screen name, yet you decided after making the screen name that a DO was not good enough and you would rather go to the carribean for an MD? furthermore, this realization happened withing the last two weeks since you formed that screen name paying homage to your former aspirations to become a DO? looks like you are trying to start a riot here in the pre osteo forum. i hope nobody falls into this guy's trap.

 

[Hopeful DO]

I assure you my intentions are not at all hostile. I want to start a discussion. I want people to present their point of view. I know that posting my opinion in this forum might be seen as insulting to some, but I care about the pre-osteopathic opinion, not anyone else's.

Also I acknowledge completely and wholeheartedly that Caribbean graduates have stigma's about them too and they too will be judged. I am not trying to say going to St. George is perfect and without flaw, and in fact I do agree that a St. George MD is undoubtedly inferior to a U.S. MD.

 

[hotlikebutter]

do whatever you think will help you in the future. as for me, i will not spend that much money investing in an "education" just to get the "worldly" recognized MD. you can say what you want about the DO programs, but it is simple facts that DO students pass rates are better on boards. they get priority in residencies come match time. if you are a foreign medical graduate (FMG) you go where MD and DO kids dont want to go. that is fact, not opinion. of course if you are top gun and a FMG sure you can go to awesome places, buts its rare. also, there is a strong consensus that the US schools, both DO and MD are producing too many physicians, and within the next decade there will be a surplus. what this means is that the FGM will not be offered resedencies or severly limited, this will undoubtedly collapse overseas MD schools that cater to US students (a Princeton Review publication). i dont know about you, but spending that much and being only able to practice in the caribbean is scary if your intention was to come back to the US. fortunately for this day and age, the so called stigma of the DO is next to nothing, except in the minds of pretentious people. even if you get an MD as an FGM, these people wont respect you anyways cause graduated from the caribbean. so if your claim is that DO is inferior to MD, then you must also argue that FGM MD's are also inferior to US MD's (which i personally think is a greater hurdle and stigma than having a DO).

 

[dr.z]

I am a foreign student accepted to DO programs. First I must thank DO programs for accepting me and not discriminating like the allopathic schools. I chose to attend DO program since I wanted to become a U.S. trained physician despite DOs having limited practice rights in some foreign countries. This will be changing constantly since DOs have been negotiating with WHO to grant full practice rights to U.S. trained DOs.

I am from Japan, and I know that they do not accept M.D. degree from so called the developing nations. Usually they don't even allow them to take board exams there unless the MD degree was granted from a developed nation. As far as DO degree goes not sure, but they may since they really kiss a** to America. Plus a foreigner going to the Carribean will not fly with residency directors if I wanted to practice in U.S. I would then goto medical school in Japan.

I have no problem with Carribean MDs since we are all physicians in the end. I just wanted to share my perspective.

 

[DO it right]

2. The key osteopathic principles can be easily adhered to by an allopathic physician. (Structure = Function, The recognition of the body-mind-soul connection, and the recognition that the body has the ability to heal itself can all be taken into account in the mind of the allopathic physician).

3. Though OMT is a wonderful and important technique, it does not justify the creation of an entirely new profession. I believe that OMT is far too small of a difference to create an entirely new medical profession. Instead, I believe that OMT should be offered as an elective or incorporated into the allopathic curriculum. In addition, if OMT was indeed such a powerful technique, more DO's would use it in their practice, but only a fraction of DO's use it on a regular basis.

if you've really made up your mind, then there's no point for discussion. those who need help with their decision btw the two can start a new discussion anytime.

As far the key osteopathic principles, yes they're easily adhered, but you need training, and you will not get that training at SGU. However, there are some allopathic schools such as VCU and UCI, which train their students after some osteopathic principles.

As far as the OMT, yes, you're right--because its great. However, it is a skill, and it is not for everybody--and it cannot be offered as an elective course, because it spans anywhere between a year to two years minimum. I assume that you could understand, if a physician is not good at using the OMT, he or she would not use it. On the other hand, there are a whole bunch of D.O.s that use it and I don't think you could find an insurance company that doesn't pay for the OMT treatment--they actually pay great. Why would they pay for something that doesn't work?

As far as international pratice rights, you're correct--that's probably the only area that I agree with you. AOA should be more organized, and they should use their resources wisely.

Good luck in med school! 🙂

 

[Assembler]

you can say what you want about the DO programs, but it is simple facts that DO students pass rates are better on boards...also, there is a strong consensus that the US schools, both DO and MD are producing too many physicians, and within the next decade there will be a surplus. what this means is that the FGM will not be offered resedencies or severly limited, this will undoubtedly collapse overseas MD schools that cater to US students (a Princeton Review publication).

I don't want to strike up an argument here, but where did you get this information? The first-time pass rate for the USMLE I for DO's is 70% vs. Ross/SGU at 87-94%. I'm not taking into account the fact that DO students need to prep for the COMLEX above all else - that and Step I of the USMLE tests some extra minor tidbits not covered as in-depth. So, the data is somewhat skewed according to this.

Also, from what I hear, there is (and probably always has been) a shortage of doctors in the United States. FMG's make up approximately 1/3 of all hospital physicians. They will never get rid of them. (You can call and ask your county hospital if you really feel like checking this out - I know I did)

I am by no means attacking the DO philosophy though. I'm just clarifying your facts. I would still go the DO route any day over the Caribbeans. Just personal preference; I'd rather stay in my own country.

 

[no-see-um]

Go DO. Less hassles. You could drum up an off-shore school all you want, but it's sad in the end that it's not the same as a US school when all people over there want is to be taken as equals. You're not going to get it.

 

[docbill]

Hasn't this been already discuss in details? Do we really want to revisit this story?

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

I don't want to strike up an argument here, but where did you get this information? The first-time pass rate for the USMLE I for DO's is 70% vs. Ross/SGU at 87-94%. I'm not taking into the account the fact that DO students need to prep for the COMLEX above all else - that and Step I of the USMLE tests some extra minor tidbits not covered as in-depth. So, the data is somewhat skewed according to this.

Also, from what I hear, there is (and probably always has been) a shortage of doctors in the United States. FMG's make up approximately 1/3 of all hospital physicians. They will never get rid of them. (You can call and ask your county hospital if you really feel like checking this out - I know I did)

I am by no means attacking the DO philosophy though. I'm just clarifying your facts. I would still go the DO route any day over the Caribbeans. Just personal preference; I'd rather stay in my own country.

Just a sidebar on board scores.....from what I've heard......the foreign med school boards stats. are usually skewed. you can't believe everything you read, there are students left out and some of those students can't take the boards until the school deems they can. ( Please Correct Me If I'm Wrong )

also....there are DO students who sit for the usmle just to sit for them. So that's why the pass rate reflects so low. Those students will often take the usmle often weeks or sometimes months after the comlex.

the point i want to make is that much of the information that you are fed as a pre-med isn't always quite what it may seem, or it might now always be as importants as it sounds.

And I can guarantee that the teaching and clinical instruction, (including clinical instruction in years 1 and 2), at any US institution will definitely not be inferior to any Caribbean school.

 

[mandar]

I am a foreign student accepted to DO programs. First I must thank DO programs for accepting me and not discriminating like the allopathic schools. I chose to attend DO program since I wanted to become a U.S. trained physician despite DOs having limited practice rights in some foreign countries. This will be changing constantly since DOs have been negotiating with WHO to grant full practice rights to U.S. trained DOs.

I am from Japan, and I know that they do not accept M.D. degree from so called the developing nations. Usually they don't even allow them to take board exams there unless the MD degree was granted from a developed nation. As far as DO degree goes not sure, but they may since they really kiss a** to America. Plus a foreigner going to the Carribean will not fly with residency directors if I wanted to practice in U.S. I would then goto medical school in Japan.

I have no problem with Carribean MDs since we are all physicians in the end. I just wanted to share my perspective.

Dr. Z,
I have send you a PM. Please check your mailbox.
Mandar

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Just a sidebar on board scores.....from what I've heard......the foreign med school boards stats. are usually skewed. you can't believe everything you read, there are students left out and some of those students can't take the boards until the school deems they can. ( Please Correct Me If I'm Wrong )

also....there are DO students who sit for the usmle just to sit for them. So that's why the pass rate reflects so low. Those students will often take the usmle often weeks or sometimes months after the comlex.

the point i want to make is that much of the information that you are fed as a pre-med isn't always quite what it may seem, or it might now always be as importants as it sounds.

And I can guarantee that the teaching and clinical instruction, (including clinical instruction in years 1 and 2), at any US institution will definitely not be inferior to any Caribbean school.

Off-topic, but any news about Monday?

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

Off-topic, but any news about Monday?

oh ya.....I am scheduled to give a tour that day

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

3. Though OMT is a wonderful and important technique, it does not justify the creation of an entirely new profession. I believe that OMT is far too small of a difference to create an entirely new medical profession.

With all due repect, who are you exactly to question the existence of any modality of treatment?

I have nothing but respect for those who have persevered in the Caribbean schools and come back to the US. I wouldn't at all mind seeing one if I were sick. But if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't question the validity of a profession over a century old (especially without discussing osteopathy in it's historical context). You should be more worried about degree mills than DOs.

 

[deleted9493]

One of my professors from undergrad went to be a professor at SGU this past year. He thinks Grenada is a beautiful place but he told me that I needed to do everything in my power to get into a U.S. program. He told me that he has equal faith in both the osteopathic and allopathic programs here in the states. His reasons (for telling me to stay in the country)? The resources of the schools in both pre-clinical and clinical phases...the relative simplicity of obtaining residencies/internships...and the vastly reduced personal cost (both financial and emotional).

Grenada looks like a beautiful place but I guess the additional financial costs of living on an island like that really accumulate quickly. Not only that but I guess it can be tough being in that culture for that length of time when you're there for the purpose of medical education.

That being said, he did say that if you have to go out of the states, Ross and SGU are the places to be.

 

[Ypo.]

As far as the OMT, yes, you're right--because its great. However, it is a skill, and it is not for everybody--and it cannot be offered as an elective course, because it spans anywhere between a year to two years minimum.

Just for anyone's info-

Michigan State University College of Human Medicine offers electives in OMT during the first two medical school years. Its convenient for them to do so because they share space with the College of Osteopathic Medicine at MSU.

Also there are CME classes for health care professionals interested in learning OMT (all over the states). Apparently there are a substantial amount of MDs who have learned OMT through these classes, or at least this is what one professor at KCOM told me. Also, the CME classes offered in Michigan have MDs and physical therapists as their top two participants.

 

[DD214_DOC]

It's great you reached a conclusion you are happy with. I wish you good luck!

Hi everyone. I attend a college that has a DO school associated with it, and so I have developed a respect and appreciation for the DO route. However, I wanted to say why I chose to attend St. George Medical School instead of any DO school in the U.S. (Maybe someone is debating the two as well).

1. It gives a physician universal medical power (All countries recognize the MD degree, and all 50 states recognize St. George Medical School). Now this is particularly important if you want to work internationally (like me) - specifically in areas of Asia and Africa, where DO powers are strictly limited if not recognized at all).

2. The key osteopathic principles can be easily adhered to by an allopathic physician. (Structure = Function, The recognition of the body-mind-soul connection, and the recognition that the body has the ability to heal itself can all be taken into account in the mind of the allopathic physician).

3. Though OMT is a wonderful and important technique, it does not justify the creation of an entirely new profession. I believe that OMT is far too small of a difference to create an entirely new medical profession. Instead, I believe that OMT should be offered as an elective or incorporated into the allopathic curriculum. In addition, if OMT was indeed such a powerful technique, more DO's would use it in their practice, but only a fraction of DO's use it on a regular basis.

4. If the DO philosophy is only equal to the allopathic, then why put up with all the unnecessary hardships associated with being a osteopath, where 9 out 10 don't even know what an osteopath is, international practice rights, etc.


I hope a positive engaging discussion can follow as a result of this post. I am more than happy to listen to any defense anyone would like to present. (I too seriously thought about becoming a DO, hence the screen name.) 🙂

 

[cooldreams]

Hi everyone. I attend a college that has a DO school associated with it, and so I have developed a respect and appreciation for the DO route. However, I wanted to say why I chose to attend St. George Medical School instead of any DO school in the U.S. (Maybe someone is debating the two as well).

1. It gives a physician universal medical power (All countries recognize the MD degree, and all 50 states recognize St. George Medical School). Now this is particularly important if you want to work internationally (like me) - specifically in areas of Asia and Africa, where DO powers are strictly limited if not recognized at all). ...http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627...

2. The key osteopathic principles can be easily adhered to by an allopathic physician. (Structure = Function, The recognition of the body-mind-soul connection, and the recognition that the body has the ability to heal itself can all be taken into account in the mind of the allopathic physician).

3. Though OMT is a wonderful and important technique, it does not justify the creation of an entirely new profession. I believe that OMT is far too small of a difference to create an entirely new medical profession. Instead, I believe that OMT should be offered as an elective or incorporated into the allopathic curriculum. In addition, if OMT was indeed such a powerful technique, more DO's would use it in their practice, but only a fraction of DO's use it on a regular basis.

4. If the DO philosophy is only equal to the allopathic, then why put up with all the unnecessary hardships associated with being a osteopath, where 9 out 10 don't even know what an osteopath is, international practice rights, etc.


I hope a positive engaging discussion can follow as a result of this post. I am more than happy to listen to any defense anyone would like to present. (I too seriously thought about becoming a DO, hence the screen name.) 🙂

1) this is not true. typically, countries that accept american md degrees also accept american do degrees. but not all countries accept the american md degree.

2) sure you could do that, but it is not taught to you, you have to learn it on your own and go a little different path than the rest of your class. good luck with that.

3) omt was not the reason for a separate philosophy. omt is a powerful primary care tool, and is many times used by them. for a neurosurgeon, i would suspect it would have little benefit. however there seems to be on average more DOs in orthopedic surgery percentage wise than there are mds.

4) the do philosophy is not equal, but actually different. this is the greatest differentiating thing. however an md or a do arrive at helping a patient, they will probablly do arrive at the solution in a different way.

if you seriously thought about, then why do you not know much about them? just curious. 😕

 

[group_theory]

Grenada looks like a beautiful place but I guess the additional financial costs of living on an island like that really accumulate quickly. Not only that but I guess it can be tough being in that culture for that length of time when you're there for the purpose of medical education.

I didn't want to bring this up in an earlier post because I didn't want to sound negative but also keep in mind that Grenada got hit by Hurricaine Ivan this year with 90% devastation (and reports of no electricity/water and riots immediately afterwards). Now the school may have survived undamaged (and hurricaines are rare occurences on the island), the 90% devastation is going to have some impact on student life.

The education is EXACTLY the same, just the addition of OMT and philosophy. Why people are willing to go to 3rd world countries (or brand new schools with iffy potential for licensure) just for that "MD" when the American DO undergraduate medical education is exactly the same (held to the same standard too) as the American MD undergraduate medical education is beyond my comprehension. The only difference is the name of the degree awarded (and learning OPP). But in the end, it's their lives, their decisions, and their rewards/consequences.

 

[deleted9493]

And that's the whole deal, right there. If having the title of DO would really bother you and you can't seem to get into a U.S. allopathic program, these island programs are for you. Just be mindful of the fact that things at these programs will (almost always) never be as rosy as they often portray. I apologize if my previous post came across as being negative. My posting was in the interests of those who are yet debating the matter...not those who have decided.

 

[OzDDS]

typically, countries that accept american md degrees also accept american do degrees. but not all countries accept the american md degree. 😕

Not true.. scroll down to the bottom
http://www.anaesthesia.uwa.edu.au/employment/info.html

Who doesn't accept the American MD degree? This is one of the downsides to going the DO route. It is much harder to near impossible to get licensed outside the US, or to be eligible for any international training programs or fellowships.

 

[group_theory]

Not true.. scroll down to the bottom
http://www.anaesthesia.uwa.edu.au/employment/info.html

Who doesn't accept the American MD degree? This is one of the downsides to going the DO route. It is much harder to near impossible to get licensed outside the US, or to be eligible for any international training programs or fellowships.

Keep in mind that this website is for a training program at a hospital, and DO NOT make policy in regards to whether US DOs are registrable or not. The State and Territory Medical Boards make that decision and thus the definitive word must come from them, not some hospital website (since you already posted this website multiple times in multiple forums).

One reason for the complications of US DOs in Australia is probably due to the fact that they have their own non-medical DOs, with their own organization, university education, licensing board, etc. Australian DOs are registered health care practitioners with the Australian health department. The last thing they need is US DOs coming into their territory.
http://dingo.vu.edu.au/~peterg/soma.htm

I acknowledge that it is harder to work outside the US as a US DO than US MD (but keep in mind we're not talking about US MD but Grenada MD. While the US have accepting its training as equivalent, this doesn't necessarily mean that other countries will). However, to state "near impossible to get licensed outside the US" is simply not true. Your link simply does not support your assertion. Please check the International Practice Rights link.

 

[OzDDS]

The State and Territory Medical Boards make that decision and thus the definitive word must come from them, not some hospital website
However, to state "near impossible to get licensed outside the US" is simply not true. Your link simply does not support your assertion. Please check the International Practice Rights link.

Here are some more links then.. not hospital sites but state goverment, Australian Medical Council, and some other sites you might find interesting.




To be eligible to sit the Australian Medical Council examination, applicants must:

have been awarded a primary degree in medicine and surgery issued by a medical school listed in the World Health Organisation publication: World Directory of Medical Schools, or other publications approved by the council. Degrees in traditional Chinese medicine and the degree of Doctor of Osteopathy (awarded in the USA) are not recognised in Australia; and

have passed the Occupational English Test for medical practitioners, administered by Language Australia, or the English Language Testing System English test administered by the University of Cambridge Local Examinations Syndicate, the British Council, or IDP Education in Australia (or have been granted an exemption).


http://www.trainandemploy.qld.gov.a...ips/skills_recognition/osqir/medic/skills.htm


http://www.amc.org.au/prelim2.asp


http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/Publishing.nsf/Content/health-workforce-workforce-general.htm


http://www.iao.be/

http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/

http://www.osteopathic.com.au/

 

[OzDDS]

One reason for the complications of US DOs in Australia is probably due to the fact that they have their own non-medical DOs, with their own organization, university education, licensing board, etc. Australian DOs are registered health care practitioners with the Australian health department. The last thing they need is US DOs coming into their territory.
http://dingo.vu.edu.au/~peterg/soma.htm

The US also has their own DO organization, university education, and licensing board, that is seperate from the AMA. Maybe if you want the DO degree to be a universally accepted medical qualification.. then do you think it would help to contact the other Osteopathic Medical Councils in all the other countries in the world and get them to push for equivilency to the traditional medical degrees in their countries just like in the DOs in the US have done? 👍

 

[JonnyG]

I think the take home message here is if you are a DO, JUST DON'T PRACTICE in australia.

 

[cooldreams]

Here are some more links then.. not hospital sites but state goverment, Australian Medical Council, and some other sites you might find interesting.




To be eligible to sit the Australian Medical Council examination, applicants must:

have been awarded a primary degree in medicine and surgery issued by a medical school listed in the World Health Organisation publication: World Directory of Medical Schools, or other publications approved by the council. Degrees in traditional Chinese medicine and the degree of Doctor of Osteopathy (awarded in the USA) are not recognised in Australia; and

have passed the Occupational English Test for medical practitioners, administered by Language Australia, or the English Language Testing System English test administered by the University of Cambridge Local Examinations Syndicate, the British Council, or IDP Education in Australia (or have been granted an exemption).


http://www.trainandemploy.qld.gov.a...ips/skills_recognition/osqir/medic/skills.htm


http://www.amc.org.au/prelim2.asp


http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/Publishing.nsf/Content/health-workforce-workforce-general.htm


http://www.iao.be/

http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/

http://www.osteopathic.com.au/

sure, australia is one of the countries that allows DOs in on a case by case basis:

"Unlimited

Argentina, Austria, Bahamas, Bermuda, Brazil, Canada (Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Northwest Territories, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec, Yukon Territory), Cayman Islands, Central African Empire, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Greece, Guyana, Honduras, Hong Kong, Italy, Lebanon, Liberia, Luxembourg, Micronesia, Nepal, Nigeria, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Russia/Commonwealth of Independent States, St. Lucia, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Sweden, Taiwan, Tanzania, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Zambia

Restricted to OMM

Barbados, Canada (Saskatchewan), France, Great Britain, Norway, South Africa, Zimbabwe

Restricted to medical missions

Indonesia, Jamaica

Varies ? case by case basis

Australia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Pakistan

To be determined

Canada (Newfoundland), Israel

No response to request

Bolivia, Cambodia, Denmark, Egypt, Ghana, Guatemala, Iran, Japan, Kenya, Korea, Kuwait, Laos, Nicaragua, Peru, Philippines, Romania, St. Kitts, Syria, Thailand, Turkey, Venezuela

Denied

Aruba, Belize, Canada (Prince Edward Island), India, Ireland, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Scotland, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, Uganda, Ukraine"

 

[cooldreams]

additionally, for the most part, most of these countries will give all foreign docs trouble getting in. countries try to protect their own docs. if you really want to go live and practice in some country, why not go to medical school there???? nearly all of the countries that say they wont let you in to make a profitable practice will let you in for medical missions and such if/when needed. what are you worried about??

 

[OzDDS]

sure, australia is one of the countries that allows DOs in on a case by case basis:

Just curious but what is the source of the info you quoted? The Australian medical council itself says the US DO degree is not registerable in Australia, and I think the UK has a similar rule.

 

[OzDDS]

most of these countries will give all foreign docs trouble getting in. countries try to protect their own docs. if you really want to go live and practice in some country, why not go to medical school there????

True.. but it is also nice to have international clinical training and research opportunities available to docs who are interested. As this is a valuble resource for the advancement of Health Care around the world. We live in an ever shrinking world village and we need to work together including sharing training and international research collaborations. 👍
I was just trying to point out some of the current issues concerning opportunities given to Docs if they go the DO route. I think DOs should do more research and contact international DO associations and tell them to change things to give everyone great opportunities. I have an interest in working in more than one country after I graduate and I wouldn't want to not have that opportunity or for someone else to not have it who wanted it. 👍

 

[cooldreams]

Just curious but what is that source? The Australian medical council itself says the US DO degree is not registerable in Australia. I think the UK has a similar rule.

the same link that gives me this:

Australia
Year of Last Request: 2000
Scope of Practice: varies
A U.S. educated and trained osteopathic physician was recruited to head up an emergency room in the suburbs of Sydney. Through the efforts of the hospital, he secured an unlimited medical license through the New South Wales Medical Board upon endorsement of the Australian College of Emergency Medicine. It appears that licensure would be dependent on the state. Previously, the Australia Medical Council denied a request by the AOA to recognize U.S. educated and trained D.O.s for the unlimited practice of medicine.
Contact: New South Wales Medical Board
Medical Board Building
Off Punt Road
PO Box 104
Gladesville NSW 1675
New South Wales
AUSTRALIA
http://www.nswmb.org.au

Australian Medical Council
PO Box 4810
Kingston Act 2604
AUSTRALIA
http://www.amc.org.au

go back to my first post on this thread, if you would actually read what i wrote, you would see a link there.

 

[cooldreams]

True.. but it is also nice to have international clinical training and research opportunities available to docs who are interested. As this is a valuble resource for the advancement of Health Care around the world. We live in an ever shrinking world village and we need to work together including sharing training and international research collaborations. 👍
I was just trying to point out some of the current issues concerning opportunities given to Docs if they go the DO route. I think DOs should do more research and contact international DO associations and tell them to change things to give everyone great opportunities. I have an interest in working in more than one country after I graduate and I wouldn't want to not have that opportunity or for someone else to not have it who wanted it. 👍

if you have that kind of interest, go to med school in israel.. they are very well recognised in most of the mideast, europe, usa, etc etc... a usa md is not the same as a carabbean md and those countries will know the difference when you apply and list your medical school and country. they may or may not let you in, but dont expect to be treated the same as a usa md. hhehe i mean texas is its own little world down there and they dont want carabbean mds lol...

 

[OzDDS]

the same link that gives me this:

Australia
Year of Last Request: 2000
Scope of Practice: varies
A U.S. educated and trained osteopathic physician was recruited to head up an emergency room in the suburbs of Sydney. Through the efforts of the hospital, he secured an unlimited medical license through the New South Wales Medical Board upon endorsement of the Australian College of Emergency Medicine. It appears that licensure would be dependent on the state. Previously, the Australia Medical Council denied a request by the AOA to recognize U.S. educated and trained D.O.s for the unlimited practice of medicine.
Contact: New South Wales Medical Board
Medical Board Building
Off Punt Road
PO Box 104
Gladesville NSW 1675
New South Wales
AUSTRALIA
http://www.nswmb.org.au

Australian Medical Council
PO Box 4810
Kingston Act 2604
AUSTRALIA
http://www.amc.org.au

go back to my first post on this thread, if you would actually read what i wrote, you would see a link there.

It may be possible.. but who wrote that site? Sounds the information is kinda hear-say. It would be good to know exaclty what the deal was. This is my point exaclty though.. good to know they are making progress.. if you want more, which I think is a good idea for DOs who want to do more mission work or specialty training abroad. It would be good to get DO organizations to push for it.

 

[babyruth]

Previous topic:

I don't think that there is a shortage of physicians per se, but a 'mal-distribution' (at least that is what has been mentioned in my MPH and MHA classes). I would assume that shortages exist in areas of need (i.e. rural, inner cities, etc.), where many doctors are hesitant to practice. This is caused by many phsyicians wanting to inhabit suburbs and take up high paying specialities, not FP options in underserved areas. I would say that the person that said we have an over-abundance of medical school students is correct and many of them want to stay in this country and make money in the professions that are financially more pleasing.

 

[newyorkcougar]

The above list of international practice rights is already out-of-date. It suggests limited scope of practice in Canada, which now recognizes full equivalency between DO's and MD's. A couple of months ago the AOA's website featured the following news:

*********

International News



U.S. Trained D.O.s Recognized Equal to M.D.s in Canada


For several years the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) and Canadian Osteopathic Association (COA) have been working to expand US-trained osteopathic physician rights in all of the Canadian provinces, especially in Ontario, Canada?s largest province.

In September 2003 the AOA and Canadian Osteopathic Association (COA) met with delegates of The College of Physicians & Surgeons of Ontario (CPSO) and the College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC) about extending US-trained D.O.s practice rights throughout Canada. Since that meeting the CPSO has adopted a policy stating that US-trained D.O.s with AOA-accredited education are recognized equivalently to M.D.s in Canada. This policy allows US-trained D.O.s to go to Ontario and sit for the licensing examination and to gain practice rights there.


To learn more please visit the CPSO?s Web site.


The College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC) has also made strides towards acceptance of US-trained D.O.s practicing in Canada. In May 2003 the CFPC Board of Directors resolved that osteopathic physicians that have graduated from an AOA accredited College of Osteopathic Medicine and completed a residency through the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) may sit for the CFPC?s Certification Examination in Family Medicine.


To learn more about the requirements to sit for the CFPC?s Certification Examination, please visit the Eligibility Requirements & General Information section of the CFPC Web site at


For further information on both the CPSO and the CFPC related to D.O. practice rights, download this article which discusses the advances made for US-trained D.O. practice rights in Canada.


If you have any further questions please contact Joshua Kerr at [email protected] or (800) 621-1773 x8196

 

[docbill]

just to add on this... the reason some places DO practice is limited, is simply because no one has tried to get licensed in those provinces.

In the next few years... 3-5 this will change. ALready The college of phys and Surg are being asked to recognize DO's that have completed a ACGME fellowship. As more and more US trained DO's come back to Canada, more provinces and specialty boards will give full okay for it.

 

[tkim]

the AOA international practice rights document has been updated:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

 

[tkim]

It may be possible.. but who wrote that site? Sounds the information is kinda hear-say. It would be good to know exaclty what the deal was. This is my point exaclty though.. good to know they are making progress.. if you want more, which I think is a good idea for DOs who want to do more mission work or specialty training abroad. It would be good to get DO organizations to push for it.

The information - now outdated, was info posted by the American Osteopathic Association. The link to the newest info has been posted.

 

[Docgeorge]

True.. but it is also nice to have international clinical training and research opportunities available to docs who are interested. As this is a valuble resource for the advancement of Health Care around the world. We live in an ever shrinking world village and we need to work together including sharing training and international research collaborations. 👍
I was just trying to point out some of the current issues concerning opportunities given to Docs if they go the DO route. I think DOs should do more research and contact international DO associations and tell them to change things to give everyone great opportunities. I have an interest in working in more than one country after I graduate and I wouldn't want to not have that opportunity or for someone else to not have it who wanted it. 👍

Training outside of the united states is allowed for US DO's. Some of the first DO plastic surgeons trained in France (Sherman Leis) and Sweden(Pandaya). Currently I know of 1 DO doing a minnimaly invasive fellowship at the Univeristy of Louis Pasture. There are probally other out there. There is also 1 BC EM DO I know of woking in Austrlia as an EM physician. I'll try and dig up a link to that one though.

Oh yeah, my school is listed by the WHO as an acreditied medical school.

 

[Shinken]

The information - now outdated, was info poasted by the American Osteopathic Association. The link to the newest info has been posted.

Great information. Reading the different countries' requirements, it appears that (a) the US DO degree is more international than most people think and (b) the US MD degree is not as international as most people think.

I find it rather amusing that some countries will only recognize a very small number of US MD schools, and that Scotland denies physicians licensure based on WHO "certification." Although previously denied, I wonder how DOs would fare in Scotland now that US Osteopathic schools are listed in the WHO directory.

 

[tkim]

There is also 1 BC EM DO I know of woking in Austrlia as an EM physician. I'll try and dig up a link to that one though.

That guy's mentioned in the updated info:

"Australia

Year of Last Request: 2000
Scope of Practice: varies

A U.S. educated and trained osteopathic physician was recruited to head up an emergency room in the suburbs of Sydney. Through the efforts of the hospital, he secured an unlimited medical license through the New South Wales Medical Board upon endorsement of the Australian College of Emergency Medicine. It appears that licensure would be dependent on the state. Previously, the Australia Medical Council denied a request by the AOA to recognize U.S. educated and trained D.O.s for the unlimited practice of medicine."