Why I Would Advise A Non-Trad Not To Go To Med School

[Chip N Sawbones]

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Clearly you have never had to pay income tax before.

Oh, I pay income tax often enough, it just isn't on very much income. My average yearly income in the seven years after graduating college has been about $8,000. I like to work for a few months and then volunteer, ideally at someplace that provides free room and board, until I run out of money. When I said I wouldn't see much difference between a $50,000 and a $500,000 salary I wasn't exaggerating all that much- either way it's at least six times what I usually make. Probably not true for very many people, though.

 

[Velocity]

Edit: Now this is annoying, I'm trying to get in a little Sunday afternoon home study in when everyone is away at church and now THE CAT FEELS NEGLECTED AND WANTS SOME ATTENTION. Ok, here is one family member that I can shut out.

As a married man and former cat owner, I would like to alert you to the fact that you are making a terrible mistake.

 

[EdLongshanks]

As a married man and former cat owner, I would like to alert you to the fact that you are making a terrible mistake.

In general pets are important, but if it comes to DO or kitty, well, some new ear muffs would be nice.

 

[netminder]

Clearly you have never had to pay income tax before.

👍👍👍

 

[netminder]

As a married man and former cat owner, I would like to alert you to the fact that you are making a terrible mistake.

True, my friend

 

[dotdash]

Would you go back to your partner after they had an affair? I know I couldn't.

I don't know whether I would or not; I'm hoping I never have to find out --- but I do know there is no right answer for all situations and all people. A family is more than two spouses, and no one should be too quick to judge another family, another relationship, another person's life.

Even if you are young and know it all. 🙂

 

[TriagePreMed]

I don't know whether I would or not; I'm hoping I never have to find out --- but I do know there is no right answer for all situations and all people. A family is more than two spouses, and no one should be too quick to judge another family, another relationship, another person's life.

Even if you are young and know it all. 🙂

Indeed there is no right answer, but what I was trying to get to saying that more likely than not it's a dent for life. I'm not trying to judge this person.

 

[mafunk]

I'm sorry that your family had a temporary break under this strain. What is even more annoying than pre-meds lecturing medical students about time management and family balance is for people who have never been married informing married men about what makes relationships work.
.

👍 - I agree that it is quite insensitive and presumptuous for anyone to lecture/judge/question the OP. I think folks do this because they want to believe that they are 'different' and immune to the strain of medical school.

I have yet to apply to med school. Every time I hear things like this I take note and wonder if I'm doing the right thing. Just yesterday I toured a med school and one of the school VPs stressed to me how medical school rips families apart... destroys marriages, etc. Scary!

I want to be a physician... I want to serve others... I want to practice medicine... BUT I do not want to lose my family.

Any stories (good or bad) from folks who are married with no kids? I have two boys but by the time I matriculate (2013 hopefully) they will be away at college. Still, I wonder how medschool and residency will impact my marriage. I'm hoping to get into school in my home state, which will allow my husband to keep his job. But what about residency? If he has to quit his job to follow me to residency he will resent me. Also he makes quite a good yearly salary - jobs like his do not just come along every day.

 

[Velocity]

Any stories (good or bad) from folks who are married with no kids? I have two boys but by the time I matriculate (2013 hopefully) they will be away at college. Still, I wonder how medschool and residency will impact my marriage. I'm hoping to get into school in my home state, which will allow my husband to keep his job. But what about residency? If he has to quit his job to follow me to residency he will resent me. Also he makes quite a good yearly salary - jobs like his do not just come along every day.

I'm married with no kids. I was in graduate school (scientific research) while she did the first three years of medical school. She was more stressed out than I've ever seen her and we had much less time to spend together, but it wasn't bad. She was good about recognizing if she ever got snappy with me (which was rare) and would apologize for it; we split household chores based on who had time at that moment. While I felt disgruntled at times, I knew it was a temporary period, and felt it was important to be supportive.

Now I'm in my first year while she's in her fourth, and we're separated by distance. I text her every morning when I wake up, and we talk for about an hour every night. It may be eating into my study time a bit, but I feel that it's important to stay closely connected, and I want to talk with her each day.

In the end, I think it comes down to two things: how committed are you to your family, and how much does your family support you and understand what you're going through? My wife and I arguably had it easy - we both wanted to go into medicine, so we had a good idea of what to expect. Since we both had the same end goal, we were also very supportive each other. (We had a very close, supportive relationship even before starting medical school, and we're both low-stress people, so we came in strong to begin with.) As to commitment to family, it's the question of family vs. career. I'm willing to give up an hour of study time each night to talk to my wife because - as much as I'd love to be #1 in the class - I'm content to simply pass courses if it means that I retain a strong marriage. Some people get caught up in the career aspect and neglect their family, and we see how that usually plays out.

Talk to your husband about everything - the possibilities of moving, of seeing you less, financial burden, etc. and see what he thinks. Get him prepared. On your part, recognize that you're going to be stressed, possibly sleep-deprived, and overall unpleasant, and make sure that you prevent as much of that as possible from slipping between you and your husband. If it does slip through (and it invariably will), be quick to apologize (never go to sleep with something like that unresolved). You've been married longer than I have - you probably know all of this stuff 🙂

A lot of it is just in preparing yourself and your family. Compared to the horror stories, my marriage cruised through medical school unscathed - there were times when one may have annoyed the other, but we didn't have a single fight in all of those years. It got better as my wife went through medical school, too. We're now gearing up for her residency, as I expect it will be her first year all over again, but we'll make it through because we're both committed to each other. The studies (and career) are very demanding, and while some may disagree with the idea of putting your family first, I strongly recommend doing so.

 

[theseeker4]

👍 - I agree that it is quite insensitive and presumptuous for anyone to lecture/judge/question the OP. I think folks do this because they want to believe that they are 'different' and immune to the strain of medical school.

I have yet to apply to med school. Every time I hear things like this I take note and wonder if I'm doing the right thing. Just yesterday I toured a med school and one of the school VPs stressed to me how medical school rips families apart... destroys marriages, etc. Scary!

I want to be a physician... I want to serve others... I want to practice medicine... BUT I do not want to lose my family.

Any stories (good or bad) from folks who are married with no kids? I have two boys but by the time I matriculate (2013 hopefully) they will be away at college. Still, I wonder how medschool and residency will impact my marriage. I'm hoping to get into school in my home state, which will allow my husband to keep his job. But what about residency? If he has to quit his job to follow me to residency he will resent me. Also he makes quite a good yearly salary - jobs like his do not just come along every day.

The part I bolded above sounds bad. You are worried he may resent you if you have to move for your residency, or you know he will? I know that if my wife were not directly supporting my decision to go to medical school, and was not offering her support without my prompting, I probably would not do it. Each person has to decide for themselves whether their relationship/marriage is more or less important than their dream, (and I am certainly not going to say one is better or worse than the other) but personally I place more value on my marriage than being a doctor. I can't say I wouldn't end up resenting her if she told me she couldn't make the sacrifices, but if I had to decide now and she said that, I would stop trying to get in.

Have you talked to your husband about the very possible need to move for residency and the fact that it could result in either living apart for a time or him moving with you? If you haven't I would do that before investing anything more in becoming a doctor, and then re-examine your goals based on his answer. Obviously you may still decide to pursue medicine if he is very negative, and it isn't anyone's place to say whether that is right or wrong for you. Being in a marriage, though, means that we have to be more careful about identifying, discussing and resolving the sacrifices each of us will have to make by going to medical school, in a way that traditional students don't have to do. I have no first-hand knowledge, but I would bet that the majority of marriages that end because of a pursuit of medicine do so because one or both spouses have little understanding of the sacrifices necessary, and one or both of them are unhappy and resentful because of it. I might not cause a majority of them, but I am sure it is a contributing factor to many such divorces.

Good luck, to you and the OP, and everyone else considering going into this with a family/SO.

 

[EdLongshanks]

The part I bolded above sounds bad. You are worried he may resent you if you have to move for your residency, or you know he will? I know that if my wife were not directly supporting my decision to go to medical school, and was not offering her support without my prompting, I probably would not do it. Each person has to decide for themselves whether their relationship/marriage is more or less important than their dream, (and I am certainly not going to say one is better or worse than the other) but personally I place more value on my marriage than being a doctor. I can't say I wouldn't end up resenting her if she told me she couldn't make the sacrifices, but if I had to decide now and she said that, I would stop trying to get in.

Have you talked to your husband about the very possible need to move for residency and the fact that it could result in either living apart for a time or him moving with you? If you haven't I would do that before investing anything more in becoming a doctor, and then re-examine your goals based on his answer. Obviously you may still decide to pursue medicine if he is very negative, and it isn't anyone's place to say whether that is right or wrong for you. Being in a marriage, though, means that we have to be more careful about identifying, discussing and resolving the sacrifices each of us will have to make by going to medical school, in a way that traditional students don't have to do. I have no first-hand knowledge, but I would bet that the majority of marriages that end because of a pursuit of medicine do so because one or both spouses have little understanding of the sacrifices necessary, and one or both of them are unhappy and resentful because of it. I might not cause a majority of them, but I am sure it is a contributing factor to many such divorces.

Good luck, to you and the OP, and everyone else considering going into this with a family/SO.

You have 2 things to juggle in choosing what to rank in a residency. Location and specialty. If you aren't picky on the specialty, you can probably find a residency where you want.

 

[Holderlin]

Wow.

That was a good thread. The cheating wife thing has been beaten to death, but dude............you're still with her? And you blame yourself?

Is it terrible that I immediately saw this as an opportunity to for you to bang one of your 23 year old classmates yeah it is😳. But you should do it.

I bet it would be easy🙂

 

[EdLongshanks]

Wow.

That was a good thread. The cheating wife thing has been beaten to death, but dude............you're still with her? And you blame yourself?

Is it terrible that I immediately saw this as an opportunity to for you to bang one of your 23 year old classmates yeah it is😳. But you should do it.

I bet it would be easy🙂

Shakes head. Someone doesn't understand the value of a family.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

IDK Ed, cats get kind of nasty if you ignore them... my dogs do too... they'll knock your books off the table if you ignore them too long... and they can whine and bark... 😉

I'm still sticking with my previous answer... I'm glad I'm childless at this point... many people can make a marriage work from a distance, but having kids puts it in a different place... Ed, I hope your wife gets to finish all her dreams when your residency is over 🙂

Holderlin, typical... isn't this why you usually stick to the lounge? Oh, and for the record, it is a proven fact, men are way more likely to cheat on their wives than women are to cheat on their husbands, so really, it's more likely for the 'cheating husband' thing to have been beaten to death... sorry, statistics aren't on your side on this one...

 

[Shinken]

Well, for every non-trad that regrets his decision to become a doctor you will find a non-trad who thinks it was the best decision ever.

I finished residency in my forties, and loved every second of medical school and residency. My wife and I are closer than ever, I spent time with my children, and they're all proud of me.

Medicine takes time and effort, but it's not the be-all and end-all of life. If you're not spending time with your family then you're not using your time efficiently (and no, I didn't graduate at the bottom of my class either).

Just learn to balance things in life. If I had to choose, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

[TriagePreMed]

...no, I didn't graduate at the bottom of my class either...

Lies. Tag says family med.

(I'm joking. Don't flame.)

 

[n3xa]

Lies. Tag says family med.

(I'm joking. Don't flame.)

 

[wholeheartedly]

Just learn to balance things in life.

I think that's the key to everything in life.

( cuz, you know, I've got it all figured out already 😉 )

 

[Vet_Squared80]

First, I'll start off by saying I'm one of those "annoying pre-meds", so those of you that think we have no valid opinions because we haven't been there yet, you can just skip my post....

I found this thread very interesting. I was going to post a thread about NTS w/kids, but did a search and found this thread, which sort of answers some of my questions. I'm not going into people medicine, so my experience will be somewhat different, but not altogether different from those expressed here. I'm 31 years old, and have spent most of my life thus far "floating". I started off wanting to go to Vet school, but a bad freshman year convinced me I should pick something different. (Not bad as in I flunked because I'm unintelligent, bad because sleeping was much more fun than GenChem at 8am!) I floated around, served time in the Army, got deployed, got married, had 1 kid, graduated with a CJ degree, and had 2 more kids.

My husband and I decided I would be a stay at home mom until the kids reached elementary. That was fine with me, and we've been making it work on one income. But as the due date for me to get a job/career came closer, nothing appealed to me. I toyed with going back to school to get a degree in computers, since that is pretty stable right now, but I was bored with the idea. My husband asked me point blank what I could do if money, time, etc. wasn't a factor. I'd go back to school, get the undergrad credits I needed, and apply to Vet School. Without blinking, he said do it. I laughed, and when I realized he wasn't joking, we sat down and had an honest conversation about all the factors like money, time, etc.

My husband says this about me going to Vet School: Its going to be hard, a pain in the keester, and drive us all crazy. But if I end up doing something I love that makes me happy, it will be worth it in the end. He is a cop who loves his job and would do it even if he didn't get paid. He wants that for me and says he is willing to sacrifice time with me since I've sacrificed the last 8 years to raise our family. He also works on the midnight shift and is still in the Army Reserves, so we are no stranger to sacrificing time with one another. We make the best of the time we have when we have it. We've had honest conversations with our kids about the time and how things will change once I start vet school. I also spent the last three months working with a Vet to make sure I would want to invest the time and energy in schooling, and I realized I love it even more than I thought I did in my head.... so this isn't a decision I've come to lightly.

If you've read this far, thanks! Basically, for me, it boils down to life is too short to not do something you love AND if you are going to go for that dream, make sure you have a stable support system. I've talked to a lot of professors, Vets, and doctors, and all of them said that support is the key to making it through. I know it will not be a cake walk, but I'm not willing to walk away again just because it might be hard.

I'm sorry that the OP and some others on here have had poor experiences with family and med school. I'm not going to judge, because I don't live in your shoes. Nor am I going to say that "I am different", because I don't know how it will work out. I'm hoping for the best and trying to be honest with myself. Both positive and negative experiences can help me maintain perspective, so I thank you for sharing, even if it was difficult for you. I hope your future turns out brighter....

 

[EdLongshanks]

First, I'll start off by saying I'm one of those "annoying pre-meds", so those of you that think we have no valid opinions because we haven't been there yet, you can just skip my post....
....

It is not annoying when pre-meds have opinions (my history would contradict it) it is just annoying when a pre-med tells a medical student about what medical school is like. It is then doubly annoying when never-married people start giving a married man who is committed to his troubled marriage what he should value.

Your opinions are certainly valid, and well-thought out. One of our teachers asked us today - "What are you willing to sacrifice to do well in medical school - are you willing to sacrifice your family?" He asks this question every year to entering students. At the end of the 2nd year he then asks the students "What did you sacrifice?" Every year a few marriages have come apart. He asks the students to consider what they will do to prevent that from happening to them. It is something that all of us - at every level of our education - need to question.

 

[Vet_Squared80]

It is not annoying when pre-meds have opinions (my history would contradict it) it is just annoying when a pre-med tells a medical student about what medical school is like. It is then doubly annoying when never-married people start giving a married man who is committed to his troubled marriage what he should value.

Your opinions are certainly valid, and well-thought out. One of our teachers asked us today - "What are you willing to sacrifice to do well in medical school - are you willing to sacrifice your family?" He asks this question every year to entering students. At the end of the 2nd year he then asks the students "What did you sacrifice?" Every year a few marriages have come apart. He asks the students to consider what they will do to prevent that from happening to them. It is something that all of us - at every level of our education - need to question.

Good to know, and I completely agree with you. I feel the same way about people without kids telling me how mine should be raised. I just felt that some of the posters were annoyed by pre-med students in general. Glad to know that isn't the case.

I also agree with the second part as well. I'm fortunate that I have a husband who is supportive and is willing to give up a lot so I can follow my dream and I definitely realize not everyone is so lucky.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I do as well, I am giving up living with my husband for ~4yrs in order to go to med school in another state... Why? Because my dream is important to both of us, not just me, and it is SO important to both of us that we'll make sacrifices to get there...

As for those of us without kids telling people how to be parents, sometimes some of us have valid opinions, and sometimes your kids are great and you're doing a great job... 😉 I have family that can't raise a dog, why should I trust them with children?

 

[wholeheartedly]

I do as well, I am giving up living with my husband for ~4yrs in order to go to med school in another state... Why? Because my dream is important to both of us, not just me, and it is SO important to both of us that we'll make sacrifices to get there...

As for those of us without kids telling people how to be parents, sometimes some of us have valid opinions, and sometimes your kids are great and you're doing a great job... 😉 I have family that can't raise a dog, why should I trust them with children?

Yeah, I don't have kids but I'm pretty sure if it's fifteen below outside at the Christmas parade and you're wearing a hat, mittens, scarf, and winter coat MAYBE your baby should be wearing a bit more than a Onesie type thing with no hat or blanket 🙁

I don't mind if people without my experiences give perspective and opinions on challenges I face when they keep in mind that their perspective is different. Sometimes a different viewpoint is very helpful. I do mind when they do give that advice acting like they know it all.

 

[Vet_Squared80]

Yeah, I don't have kids but I'm pretty sure if it's fifteen below outside at the Christmas parade and you're wearing a hat, mittens, scarf, and winter coat MAYBE your baby should be wearing a bit more than a Onesie type thing with no hat or blanket

I don't mind if people without my experiences give perspective and opinions on challenges I face when they keep in mind that their perspective is different. Sometimes a different viewpoint is very helpful. I do mind when they do give that advice acting like they know it all.

I see your point, but I'm not sure its my place to give advice unless its asked for. If said person asked you advice about raising kids, that is one thing, but even as a parent, I don't tell others how to raise their kids. I don't know what they went through or why they make the decisions they do, and sometimes, people have good reasons for doing seemingly "bad" things. I'll give you an example....

One of my friends has a daughter with some disabilities. One of these disabilities causes her to freak out if she has too much clothing on. We live in Michigan. The first time I met my friend, her daughter was in nothing but light weight long sleeve t-shirt and pants in the middle of winter. I was appalled! But after finding out why she was dressed that way, I understood. It wasn't that her parents don't care or neglect her, in fact they are both medical professionals. It was because if they put a coat on her, and mittens, and a hat, she freaks out and will hurt herself or others. I realize not all situations are like this, but it definitely gave me a new perspective about giving unsolicited advice to others. Just some food for thought.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Yeah, I don't have kids but I'm pretty sure if it's fifteen below outside at the Christmas parade and you're wearing a hat, mittens, scarf, and winter coat MAYBE your baby should be wearing a bit more than a Onesie type thing with no hat or blanket 🙁

I don't mind if people without my experiences give perspective and opinions on challenges I face when they keep in mind that their perspective is different. Sometimes a different viewpoint is very helpful. I do mind when they do give that advice acting like they know it all.

NO! You listen to ED! No advice! NEVARRRR!! unless you know what it's like. Remember that you'll be a doctor. Never give your patients advice unless you've also had HIV, Cancer, Strokes, etc. 🙄

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I haven't been able to recently spend any time on SDN either, since I am trying to get into the swing of this med school thing. But I found this pre-med's opinion considerably annoying also. I have implemented my medical school schedule for my family, and no one really likes it - but it does glue my coccyx to the study cubicle chair at school for 100 hours a week and that is going to be necessary for me.

I'm sorry that your family had a temporary break under this strain. What is even more annoying than pre-meds lecturing medical students about time management and family balance is for people who have never been married informing married men about what makes relationships work.

I believe there is a difference between Panda Bear and you, however, Mr. Hat. You care and recognize your family's need. Rather than blaming your wife solely, you realize that your emotional distance was a mistake. I hope that you are taking advantage of your school's counseling service. The time that you lose by going to counseling will be made up for in the reduction of stress during study.

What the pre-meds are missing here is the pure amount of time that medical school takes up. I'm not joking about 100 hours each week. My schedule has me leaving home at 6:30 AM and returning at 8 PM 6 days each week and I will study for a good portion of Sunday, This puts me at around 95 hours. My family has my undivided attention from 8 to 10 PM. Since my children are all grown, this is their best time.

The key is the I cannot withdraw from them during those 2 hours because of extreme weariness. This is what Panda Bear seems to have done that cost him his family. It would be easy to come home and plop myself in front of the TV, but my family will have to come first. I'm certain that this determination will be challenged.

Edit: Now this is annoying, I'm trying to get in a little Sunday afternoon home study in when everyone is away at church and now THE CAT FEELS NEGLECTED AND WANTS SOME ATTENTION. Ok, here is one family member that I can shut out.

1. don't neglect your kitty
2. you're right -- premeds shouldn't lecture medical students about how hard it is or isn't
3. you really don't need to study that much. Honestly. Medical school requires a lot of effort but not 100 hours a week. Cut yourself some slack.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I see your point, but I'm not sure its my place to give advice unless its asked for.

Oh, I'm not a big proponent of giving advice unless it's asked for, which if someone is posting on here it usually is or they are at least intending for some sort of discussion to take place. I agree that you don't always have all the info. Outside of sdn I'd typically ask questions first after advice was solicited, as like you, I've seen people jump to conclusions and make judgments about all sorts of things too quickly.

My only points were that you don't have to have kids, etc to realize that having a baby's skin exposed outside during a long parade at fifteen below isn't a safe situation and also that sometimes a different perspective can be valuable when the person giving it respects the fact that they don't have insider knowledge. That's all. I've don't think I've ever given anyone parenting advice.

 

[FiremedicMike]

2. you're right -- premeds shouldn't lecture medical students about how hard it is or isn't

I'll agree with you that pre-meds cannot comment directly on medical school, if you will agree that medical students/residents/doctors don't hold the patent on crazy lives that require huge amounts of effort to balance work/school/family.

For example, I work as a firefighter, 24 hours on, 48 hours off. To put it in your terms, I've been q3 for 13 years now. On top of that, I work 2-3 24 hour shifts per month at my part time job fire department, I work 2-3 8-10 hour shifts at the police department, I occasional teach lecture to EMT and firefighter students, I am currently a full-time student, and I have a wife and three kids. Averaged out, I have worked 100 hour weeks for about 8-9 years now. I may have never experienced medical school, but I am content with my qualifications to advise someone on how to balance their work/family lives.

I am not pointing out my busy schedule to try and get sympathy or respect, I'm merely trying to point out that you frankly have no idea what perspective us "lowly" premeds are coming from in terms of life-experience.

I'll leave you with this thought, which is guaranteed to enrage many people on this forum. By the time I matriculate, I will have about 15 years of working at the above pace, with my focus shifted in so many different directions. Despite the fact that I have never experienced medical school, I can confidently say that medical school WILL be a break for me. The idea of finally being able to focus on only 2 things (school and family) is comforting to me. Even if I am a gunner-rockstar, studying 100 hours per week (doubtful), I will still not be stretched as thin as I am now.

 

[punjabimc]

Let me state flat out that I regret my decision to go to medical school. I actually love the subject matter, the work, and the people. But I hate what it has done to my family. I'm a non-trad, married with kids. Spent 4 years working full-time through undergrad, applied and got in, and am now a third year. My wife got sick of me being gone all the time and had an affair. I scarcely give my kids the time they need, and when I do I'm often so tired that I can't keep up with their energy level. And forget about me being able to provide fun things like vacations and dinners out for my wife and kids, much less hardly the things they need.

Now many will answer by saying, "This may all be true, but in another 5 or 6 years you'll be making amazing money at a stable job". This is true. And assuming I am by some miracle still married, and assuming my kids aren't in prison because their dad was never around, we should have a pretty killer lifestyle. (Let's just say I ain't going into General Surgery or Family Medicine). But so what? How does that compensate for what my family is missing out on now? What they will end up having missed out on FOR 11 OR 12 YEARS!!!!

Let me put it to you this way: Pretend there was a career out there which paid 20 million dollars a year and had 100% job security. But say it also required a full 30 years of training, 100 hours a week. 30 years of living on loans, dirt poor, and working insane numbers of hours. Would you do it? I doubt many of you would say yes. But why not? Heck, even though you wouldn't start your career until like age 60, you could work for just 5 years and make 100 million dollars and retire in insane luxury. So why wouldn't you do it? Why would I definitely not do it? BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW GREAT THE BENEFITS AT THE END MIGHT BE, THE SACRIFICE WOULD JUST NOT BE WORTH IT. Raising your kids in poverty, never seeing them, losing your marriage..... not worth it. So you could give each of your kids $20 million bucks when they were in their 40's. Still not worth it.

So apply that to medicine. Sure you'll make good bucks. Sure you'll work nice hours eventually (if you're smart about it). But at what cost? Are you OK with your kids spending 2/3 of their childhood not seeing you enough and living at poverty level? Are you OK with the real possibility that your marriage will fall apart? Believe me, my wife is the last person anyone would have expected this from. Go back and read Panda Bear MD's stuff. I always thought it sounded like as bad as the process was, his family would make it. And look what happened. No one is immune, and if you want to take the risk fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking it couldn't happen to you.

I only need to look next door to understand my mistake. My neighbor is an electrician, he'll probably never make over 50 or 60 K. But he comes home every afternoon and never works a weekend. He can frequently, so I am told, be seen in his yard playing ball with his kids. Never misses a t-ball game, never misses a birthday, never has to explain to his family why something else is, or at least seems, more important than them. He takes his family on a trip every summer. On occasion he buys nice steaks and throws them on the grill. He is saving for retirement, and paying down his mortgage. He has time to exercise and isn't killing his body. Money isn't everything. Having a "noble career" isn't everything. In the end, his kids might not live in a huge house or travel all over when they are 15. But they will have had their dad. They will have thousands of fond memories. They will have had a great childhood.

If you absolutely have to do it, do it. Don't get me wrong. Medicine is interesting. I love my patients, I love those I work with. But I love my family even more and I have failed them. Ask yourself if the sacrifice is worth it. Will you be happier making $250K in 12 years when your kids are all but grown, than you would be making $60K as a nurse or $100K as a PA but getting to be with your family? It's something to think about. I wish I had.

In the end I will finish because I'm 5-6 years away at this point, am in tons of debt, and would spend a few years training to do something else anyway. But if I had it to do over, I'd choose my family. Just something to think about. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

Mr. Hat - I commend you on this post! This is a very real reality that happens to strong/stable families under the duress of a partner going through the medical route.

I started medical school in 2001 - with a strong family. Married with two kids, christian family etc etc. NObody saw it coming but my wife also had an affair. It completely blind sided me. I was thinking "How could she do that? I am working hard so I can provide a nice lifestyle for my family!" I was a loving father and supportive husband WHEN I WAS HOME.

The fact is - relationships take nurturing and reinforcement from both sides - constantly. It's human nature to want companionship, love and support - continuously.

So to make a long story short, it is a fact that a high percentage of marriages WILL fail during medical school. There is no magic secret. It's just a fact resulting from the sacrifice the medical student makes when he/she devotes most of themselves to rigorous pathway of medicine.

Do all marriages fail? NO - of course not. But there arent predictable factors to estimate that result, or not.

I think the best thing you can do for your family - before you start this medical pathway - is to involve them in the process. Take them to premed meetings, find other students that are married and try and form friendships - to allow a wife network of support. Those are just some ideas.

To summarize, marriages are like a beautiful flowering plant. If you nurture that plant, providing its needs - it will bloom and flourish. If you neglect that plant - it will wither and die - despite how strong it was when you first obtained it.


Hope that helps. Not trying to sound dismall - but this is a REAL reality of relationships in medical school.

 

[furyhecla]

I have deep empathy for the OP. I am in the middle of applying to medical school - I am a non-traditional applicant. I am 37 years old, I have a Ph.D. and a successful career in research biology. But my heart is simply not in my current career. I've always wanted to be a physician, and I am really excited about this change.

I am of course worried about whether I am making the correct decision. I read the OP essay with great interest (though I am not accepted yet into med. school... still uncertainty, but have good scores, etc.).

However, one thing I would like to give feedback on to the OP (and would like to hear others' thoughts)...is often I read about how difficult/time consuming medical school and residency is - and it is compared to other fields (the OP compares it to his electrician neighbor). I really feel like people just don't understand how difficult other professions actually are.

Throughout my Ph.D. (6 years), I was away in the field for 5 months/year, worked 7 days a week. Mmany long hours. For the last 6 years (after my Ph.D.) I've had a very stressful job that include physical stress (dangerous)/political pressure/media attention and pressure for publication. My career right now is about cranking out the publications; long hours and weeks away from my family, in the field, etc. The point is - is that the 'electrician' comparison isn't necessarily the only comparison. Many many professions are as time consuming, stress inducing as medicine. When I compare my life to my family members who are physicians or in medical school, I spend considerably more time at work and away from home as a research scientist. I honestly feel that going to medical school/being a doctor as a way to be able to be in the same town as my family, while at the same time as having an emotionally rewarding career (I'm not making this switch for money... I already earn plenty in my current job).

Obviously, I could change my career to something else. But I've always wanted to be a physician, and I have a fire in soul for mental health work and community-oriented medicine. This is what I want to do.

I just want to offer that if you want a 'professional' career - many are not that much different than the commitment required in medicine. Though in my observation, physicians/med school students like to think that somehow their time commitments are more drastic than other professions. People who are successful in their careers ALWAYS work long and stressful hours, whether they are small business owners, chefs, research scientists, long haul truckers, oil field workers, whatever.

However - what I do not have - are children (unfortunately). I suspect if I had children - I would likely agree with the OP. Children + non-traditional, I think would be quite difficult (though not impossible; my sister had kids during medical school and residency).

One reason I am applying to medical school at such a late date, is that fertility experts have said that there is basically no way I am going to be able to conceive (even IVF is unlikely to be successful). Thus I have to make a decision that my career (and my husband) will be central in my life. Kids are unfortunately not going to be a part of it. Thus , I better make sure that I have a career I love. This is why I am changing (hopefully) to medicine, as having a family (unless through adoption) is no longer on the table 🙁.

 

[EdLongshanks]

3. you really don't need to study that much. Honestly. Medical school requires a lot of effort but not 100 hours a week. Cut yourself some slack.

I'm still working on my schedule. I found that I had to go home after a day of classes that begins at 8 and ends at 5. I'm just not in any condition to study.

I've divided up my classes into those that need to be studied each night (anatomy) and that which I can catch up on during the weekend (histology, biochemistry, and OMM). If I study from 8 to midnight each week night, I can keep up with anatomy. I can then spend 18 hours on the weekend to review all detail of the other classes and make flashcards. During lunches, while falling asleep in bed, and in the mornings while waking up I can review flash cards. I also have an extra 10 hours during the weekdays between classes that I can review flashcards and preview histology. I THINK that this will work. I will report back.

This will make a 12 hour weekday, 9 hour Sat/Sun schedule. That's 78 hours.

 

[ditch doctor]

FWIW it's all about expectations. I was a non-trad. Medic for 8yrs. Had a GF at the time that was a nurse. Proposed to her and shortly thereafter I told her I wanted to be a doctor. We discussed how hard it would be. I decided to go Caribbean 'cause I was old and didn't want to do the waiting list game. She packed up all her crap and moved with me. Then she moved all over the country with me doing clinicals. Had a kid in 3rd year. My secret was I planned all of the "dad" stuff I wanted to be a part of early. Birthday? Day *one* of clinicals I talked to the course director and said, "I need Sometober 37th off; what can I do to make it up?" Did the course directors think I was 'that guy'? Probably. I don't give a s*** I got to eat bday cake.

Had another kid in residency. Then another kid in residency. I always planned "dad" crap in advance. I would surprise wife with random babysitters when I was on call so she wasn't overwhelmed.

Vacations? F-it. We would "credit card" that crap. Short on the rent? Borrow from parents or brothers/sisters. I have no pride when it comes to family. I'll pay them back: I'll put our parents in the "good" rest home. 🙂

My wife supported me the entire time. We had difficulties, but we made a pact to set our expectations VERY low. But we also laid out what our *needs* are. And sometimes I wouldn't listen the first few times she told me (I am a man). However, I usually tried my damndest to fulfill her needs.

I expected to miss birthdays and tee-ball. And when I got to see the games (11 out of 15 as it turns out and 12/12 birthdays) it was a nice surprise. Besides, playing tee-ball as a kid = fun. Watching uncoordinated little f'ers flail around on a baseball diamond = fun for only one game, especially since you can't even drink a beer. Call me a D***, but whatever that s*** is bo-ring.

You know what I like about going to medical school/being a doctor? My kids see my work ethic. Learn the lesson of sacrifice. Learn that one day they will have to work very hard to support his family. When I have to leave in the middle of dinner; the’re disappointed but they learn the lesson of responsibility. And, really If you think about it, almost every job’s pay is based on how much responsibility you have. CEO of McDonald’s – responsible for billions of other people’s money? You get paid a lot. Work at McDonald’s – responsible for hundreds of others french fries? You don’t get paid a lot. Simplistic but true.

Now my wife is considering medical school. I hope she does it. You really do get a surprising amount of free time in medical school and residency. Especially now with all the new hours regulations.

In a nutshell, would I do it all over again? Absolutely, without a doubt, yes, no question.

 

[PJ meowerton]

I have deep empathy for the OP. I am in the middle of applying to medical school - I am a non-traditional applicant. I am 37 years old, I have a Ph.D. and a successful career in research biology. But my heart is simply not in my current career. I've always wanted to be a physician, and I am really excited about this change.

I am of course worried about whether I am making the correct decision. I read the OP essay with great interest (though I am not accepted yet into med. school... still uncertainty, but have good scores, etc.).

However, one thing I would like to give feedback on to the OP (and would like to hear others' thoughts)...is often I read about how difficult/time consuming medical school and residency is - and it is compared to other fields (the OP compares it to his electrician neighbor). I really feel like people just don't understand how difficult other professions actually are.

Throughout my Ph.D. (6 years), I was away in the field for 5 months/year, worked 7 days a week. Mmany long hours. For the last 6 years (after my Ph.D.) I've had a very stressful job that include physical stress (dangerous)/political pressure/media attention and pressure for publication. My career right now is about cranking out the publications; long hours and weeks away from my family, in the field, etc. The point is - is that the 'electrician' comparison isn't necessarily the only comparison. Many many professions are as time consuming, stress inducing as medicine. When I compare my life to my family members who are physicians or in medical school, I spend considerably more time at work and away from home as a research scientist. I honestly feel that going to medical school/being a doctor as a way to be able to be in the same town as my family, while at the same time as having an emotionally rewarding career (I'm not making this switch for money... I already earn plenty in my current job).

Obviously, I could change my career to something else. But I've always wanted to be a physician, and I have a fire in soul for mental health work and community-oriented medicine. This is what I want to do.

I just want to offer that if you want a 'professional' career - many are not that much different than the commitment required in medicine. Though in my observation, physicians/med school students like to think that somehow their time commitments are more drastic than other professions. People who are successful in their careers ALWAYS work long and stressful hours, whether they are small business owners, chefs, research scientists, long haul truckers, oil field workers, whatever.

However - what I do not have - are children (unfortunately). I suspect if I had children - I would likely agree with the OP. Children + non-traditional, I think would be quite difficult (though not impossible; my sister had kids during medical school and residency).

One reason I am applying to medical school at such a late date, is that fertility experts have said that there is basically no way I am going to be able to conceive (even IVF is unlikely to be successful). Thus I have to make a decision that my career (and my husband) will be central in my life. Kids are unfortunately not going to be a part of it. Thus , I better make sure that I have a career I love. This is why I am changing (hopefully) to medicine, as having a family (unless through adoption) is no longer on the table 🙁.

completely agree

 

[Dr.Tao]

I really feel like people just don't understand how difficult other professions actually are............I just want to offer that if you want a 'professional' career - many are not that much different than the commitment required in medicine. Though in my observation, physicians/med school students like to think that somehow their time commitments are more drastic than other professions. .

This is such a true statement, it should be a sticky in the nontrad forum for nontrads who have time comsuming/stressful careers and are NOT Physicans.

 

[QofQuimica]

I haven't weighed in on this thread, but I'm going to now, because all of these debates about other jobs being as much work as medicine, or whether premeds should be giving their opinions on med student life, are missing the point. This thread is not about any of those things. It's about dealing with the possibility of failure. And it's a particularly courageous thread, because most of us are not very able or willing to imagine ourselves failing at something this important. Those of us who do fail at something important tend to go gentle into that good night rather than posting about our failure on SDN.

How many of you are going down this path expecting that anything could go majorly wrong? After all, if you just work hard enough, try hard enough, how could you possibly fail? For those of you who are married, did you go into your marriage thinking about the fact that you might get divorced? And yet, half of American marriages do end up in divorce. For those of you who are premeds, did you quit your job and start your post bac thinking that you might never get accepted to medical school? And yet, every year, half of med school applicants don't get accepted to medical school. Some of you might reapply for ten straight years and still not be able to get in. That's a pretty uncomfortable and sobering thought, isn't it? For those of you who are medical students, did you start medical school thinking that you would graduate in the bottom half of your class? And yet, half of medical students do graduate in the bottom half of their class. For those who are residents, did you apply for the match expecting to have to scramble, especially if you attended an American medical school? And yet, every year, there are some people who fail to match in their specialty of choice, or fail to match at all. There are even a few unlucky people who fail to scramble into any spot in any specialty.

Whenever someone posts a thread like this, there is always a chorus of responses trying to justify and rationalize what must have gone wrong, what the OP must have done to cause this failure, what deficiencies in personality or character s/he must possess that led to this outcome. Such a thing wouldn't and couldn't happen to us, because we're the good guys. And yet, we all understand that life is not a Disney movie, and that sometimes the good guys do lose. Well, we understand that on an intellectual level, at any rate. It's a little different when we're face-to-face with someone who is living the reality.

The reality is that the OP isn't different from you or me, except maybe in one regard: his openness to publically discussing this topic.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I think part of the reason we are talking around it and getting sidetracked is because the reality is scary. If you stop and think about all of the ways this journey can get derailed and calculate the probability of success it is extremely daunting, or should be for those who are paying attention and well-informed. Constantly thinking along those lines isn't beneficial. So it's kind of an unconscious ignorance is bliss thing, yeah.

But I also think part of the knee jerk defense response here is also a reaction to what seems to be a sweeping generalization made by the OP. That because it didn't work for him, we'll all be miserable as nontrads. I mostly weighed in on side issues because I did think it was a valuable and brave post and didn't feel comfortable commenting on it.

I'm grateful for the OP sharing that painful story and it should remind people to take a step back and honestly assess their priorities, family dynamics, and all that realizing with all the planning in the world it might still fall through without letting that possibility overwhelm you. We always seem to fall short of the happy medium here, the middle of the road, and we often run straight for fatalistic or blindly optimistic.

 

[Pembleton]

I haven't weighed in on this thread, but I'm going to now, because all of these debates about other jobs being as much work as medicine, or whether premeds should be giving their opinions on med student life, are missing the point. This thread is not about any of those things. It's about dealing with the possibility of failure. And it's a particularly courageous thread, because most of us are not very able or willing to imagine ourselves failing at something this important. Those of us who do fail at something important tend to go gentle into that good night rather than posting about our failure on SDN.

How many of you are going down this path expecting that anything could go majorly wrong? After all, if you just work hard enough, try hard enough, how could you possibly fail? For those of you who are married, did you go into your marriage thinking about the fact that you might get divorced? And yet, half of American marriages do end up in divorce. For those of you who are premeds, did you quit your job and start your post bac thinking that you might never get accepted to medical school? And yet, every year, half of med school applicants don't get accepted to medical school. Some of you might reapply for ten straight years and still not be able to get in. That's a pretty uncomfortable and sobering thought, isn't it? For those of you who are medical students, did you start medical school thinking that you would graduate in the bottom half of your class? And yet, half of medical students do graduate in the bottom half of their class. For those who are residents, did you apply for the match expecting to have to scramble, especially if you attended an American medical school? And yet, every year, there are some people who fail to match in their specialty of choice, or fail to match at all. There are even a few unlucky people who fail to scramble into any spot in any specialty.

Whenever someone posts a thread like this, there is always a chorus of responses trying to justify and rationalize what must have gone wrong, what the OP must have done to cause this failure, what deficiencies in personality or character s/he must possess that led to this outcome. Such a thing wouldn't and couldn't happen to us, because we're the good guys. And yet, we all understand that life is not a Disney movie, and that sometimes the good guys do lose. Well, we understand that on an intellectual level, at any rate. It's a little different when we're face-to-face with someone who is living the reality.

The reality is that the OP isn't different from you or me, except maybe in one regard: his openness to publically discussing this topic.

Excellent post.

 

[Dr.Tao]

.......

 

[kittywampus]

I haven't weighed in on this thread, but I'm going to now, because all of these debates about other jobs being as much work as medicine, or whether premeds should be giving their opinions on med student life, are missing the point. This thread is not about any of those things. It's about dealing with the possibility of failure. And it's a particularly courageous thread, because most of us are not very able or willing to imagine ourselves failing at something this important. Those of us who do fail at something important tend to go gentle into that good night rather than posting about our failure on SDN.

How many of you are going down this path expecting that anything could go majorly wrong? After all, if you just work hard enough, try hard enough, how could you possibly fail? For those of you who are married, did you go into your marriage thinking about the fact that you might get divorced? And yet, half of American marriages do end up in divorce. For those of you who are premeds, did you quit your job and start your post bac thinking that you might never get accepted to medical school? And yet, every year, half of med school applicants don't get accepted to medical school. Some of you might reapply for ten straight years and still not be able to get in. That's a pretty uncomfortable and sobering thought, isn't it? For those of you who are medical students, did you start medical school thinking that you would graduate in the bottom half of your class? And yet, half of medical students do graduate in the bottom half of their class. For those who are residents, did you apply for the match expecting to have to scramble, especially if you attended an American medical school? And yet, every year, there are some people who fail to match in their specialty of choice, or fail to match at all. There are even a few unlucky people who fail to scramble into any spot in any specialty.

Whenever someone posts a thread like this, there is always a chorus of responses trying to justify and rationalize what must have gone wrong, what the OP must have done to cause this failure, what deficiencies in personality or character s/he must possess that led to this outcome. Such a thing wouldn't and couldn't happen to us, because we're the good guys. And yet, we all understand that life is not a Disney movie, and that sometimes the good guys do lose. Well, we understand that on an intellectual level, at any rate. It's a little different when we're face-to-face with someone who is living the reality.

The reality is that the OP isn't different from you or me, except maybe in one regard: his openness to publically discussing this topic.

The best post I've seen on this thread thus far 👍 OP - thank you. Really. People need to hear both sides of this story, and it's really been good to hear people post both good and badly about their experiences with medical school.

We non-trads do have a lot more to consider than others when contemplating the decision to go to med school, and knowing that these problems exist and can happen is important. The more educated I am about the issues, hopefully the better prepared my wife and I can be at dealing with them when they come up.

And thank you to all of those who have made it through successfully, marriages and families intact, for posting your experiences and how you made it work. You are an inspiration........Other's sucess, and failures, both help to make the reality set in on the undertaking that medical school will be.

 

[pinkzebra]

i just wanted to thank you, OP, for such an honest post. im truly sorry things worked out for you the way they did. having my marriage fall apart and not being there for my daughter are very realistic fears of mine.

 

[Holderlin]

I haven't weighed in on this thread, but I'm going to now, because all of these debates about other jobs being as much work as medicine, or whether premeds should be giving their opinions on med student life, are missing the point. This thread is not about any of those things. It's about dealing with the possibility of failure. And it's a particularly courageous thread, because most of us are not very able or willing to imagine ourselves failing at something this important. Those of us who do fail at something important tend to go gentle into that good night rather than posting about our failure on SDN.

How many of you are going down this path expecting that anything could go majorly wrong? After all, if you just work hard enough, try hard enough, how could you possibly fail? For those of you who are married, did you go into your marriage thinking about the fact that you might get divorced? And yet, half of American marriages do end up in divorce. For those of you who are premeds, did you quit your job and start your post bac thinking that you might never get accepted to medical school? And yet, every year, half of med school applicants don't get accepted to medical school. Some of you might reapply for ten straight years and still not be able to get in. That's a pretty uncomfortable and sobering thought, isn't it? For those of you who are medical students, did you start medical school thinking that you would graduate in the bottom half of your class? And yet, half of medical students do graduate in the bottom half of their class. For those who are residents, did you apply for the match expecting to have to scramble, especially if you attended an American medical school? And yet, every year, there are some people who fail to match in their specialty of choice, or fail to match at all. There are even a few unlucky people who fail to scramble into any spot in any specialty.

Whenever someone posts a thread like this, there is always a chorus of responses trying to justify and rationalize what must have gone wrong, what the OP must have done to cause this failure, what deficiencies in personality or character s/he must possess that led to this outcome. Such a thing wouldn't and couldn't happen to us, because we're the good guys. And yet, we all understand that life is not a Disney movie, and that sometimes the good guys do lose. Well, we understand that on an intellectual level, at any rate. It's a little different when we're face-to-face with someone who is living the reality.

The reality is that the OP isn't different from you or me, except maybe in one regard: his openness to publically discussing this topic.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra

 

[BlestMama]

Whenever someone posts a thread like this, there is always a chorus of responses trying to justify and rationalize what must have gone wrong, what the OP must have done to cause this failure, what deficiencies in personality or character s/he must possess that led to this outcome. Such a thing wouldn't and couldn't happen to us, because we're the good guys. And yet, we all understand that life is not a Disney movie, and that sometimes the good guys do lose. Well, we understand that on an intellectual level, at any rate. It's a little different when we're face-to-face with someone who is living the reality.

The reality is that the OP isn't different from you or me, except maybe in one regard: his openness to publically discussing this topic.

I'm not sure it's only justification and rationalization going on here, but also (by some) an honest attempt to figure out what went wrong so that we may avoid the same fate. Granted there are no guarantees, but learning from other people's mistakes is incredibly helpful, as long as we don't make the mistake of thinking we're safe if we avoid doing the same thing.

 

[karis0166]

I am wondering - for those who regretted going for the MD - what alternatives do you think would have been good? I keep considering all alternatives and nothing seems as intriguing or interesting. But I don't have any children or spouse to affect.

 

[Holderlin]

I'm not sure it's only justification and rationalization going on here, but also (by some) an honest attempt to figure out what went wrong so that we may avoid the same fate. Granted there are no guarantees, but learning from other people's mistakes is incredibly helpful, as long as we don't make the mistake of thinking we're safe if we avoid doing the same thing.

Another facet of this discussion is that everything's always changing. This may just be a very dark period in OP's life. It's not like he's gonna be in this pit for eternity.

 

[Holderlin]

Shakes head. Someone doesn't understand the value of a family.

Didn't see this.

Yeah that's completely lost on me.

 

[Holderlin]

FWIW it's all about expectations. I was a non-trad. Medic for 8yrs. Had a GF at the time that was a nurse. Proposed to her and shortly thereafter I told her I wanted to be a doctor. We discussed how hard it would be. I decided to go Caribbean 'cause I was old and didn't want to do the waiting list game. She packed up all her crap and moved with me. Then she moved all over the country with me doing clinicals. Had a kid in 3rd year. My secret was I planned all of the "dad" stuff I wanted to be a part of early. Birthday? Day *one* of clinicals I talked to the course director and said, "I need Sometober 37th off; what can I do to make it up?" Did the course directors think I was 'that guy'? Probably. I don't give a s*** I got to eat bday cake.

Had another kid in residency. Then another kid in residency. I always planned "dad" crap in advance. I would surprise wife with random babysitters when I was on call so she wasn't overwhelmed.

Vacations? F-it. We would "credit card" that crap. Short on the rent? Borrow from parents or brothers/sisters. I have no pride when it comes to family. I'll pay them back: I'll put our parents in the "good" rest home. 🙂

My wife supported me the entire time. We had difficulties, but we made a pact to set our expectations VERY low. But we also laid out what our *needs* are. And sometimes I wouldn't listen the first few times she told me (I am a man). However, I usually tried my damndest to fulfill her needs.

I expected to miss birthdays and tee-ball. And when I got to see the games (11 out of 15 as it turns out and 12/12 birthdays) it was a nice surprise. Besides, playing tee-ball as a kid = fun. Watching uncoordinated little f'ers flail around on a baseball diamond = fun for only one game, especially since you can't even drink a beer. Call me a D***, but whatever that s*** is bo-ring.

You know what I like about going to medical school/being a doctor? My kids see my work ethic. Learn the lesson of sacrifice. Learn that one day they will have to work very hard to support his family. When I have to leave in the middle of dinner; the’re disappointed but they learn the lesson of responsibility. And, really If you think about it, almost every job’s pay is based on how much responsibility you have. CEO of McDonald’s – responsible for billions of other people’s money? You get paid a lot. Work at McDonald’s – responsible for hundreds of others french fries? You don’t get paid a lot. Simplistic but true.

Now my wife is considering medical school. I hope she does it. You really do get a surprising amount of free time in medical school and residency. Especially now with all the new hours regulations.

In a nutshell, would I do it all over again? Absolutely, without a doubt, yes, no question.

More posts like this please

 

[Challenge]

Almost 36 yo. Emergency Medicine PA
Single, no kids. NOT into creating a family / raising kids.
Will NEVER have kids. no way !
LOVE DOGS!
LOVE just hanging out with friends and family.
Gave up on dating. Don't care anymore.
Enjoy being with my current family, a dog and hanging out with friends.

Considering medical school in the future. I would be much much happier.😀

 

[CPA2doc]

I've read this thread a couple of times since Mr Hat originally posted. Thank you Mr Hat for your honest post. I've thought a lot about what many of you have written. As a 31yo non-trad just starting back into this quest, keeping my family together is a extremely important to me... something I am not willing to sacrifice.

 

[Ortho Guy]

I haven't been able to recently spend any time on SDN either, since I am trying to get into the swing of this med school thing. But I found this pre-med's opinion considerably annoying also. I have implemented my medical school schedule for my family, and no one really likes it - but it does glue my coccyx to the study cubicle chair at school for 100 hours a week and that is going to be necessary for me.

I'm sorry that your family had a temporary break under this strain. What is even more annoying than pre-meds lecturing medical students about time management and family balance is for people who have never been married informing married men about what makes relationships work.

I believe there is a difference between Panda Bear and you, however, Mr. Hat. You care and recognize your family's need. Rather than blaming your wife solely, you realize that your emotional distance was a mistake. I hope that you are taking advantage of your school's counseling service. The time that you lose by going to counseling will be made up for in the reduction of stress during study.

What the pre-meds are missing here is the pure amount of time that medical school takes up. I'm not joking about 100 hours each week. My schedule has me leaving home at 6:30 AM and returning at 8 PM 6 days each week and I will study for a good portion of Sunday, This puts me at around 95 hours. My family has my undivided attention from 8 to 10 PM. Since my children are all grown, this is their best time.

The key is the I cannot withdraw from them during those 2 hours because of extreme weariness. This is what Panda Bear seems to have done that cost him his family. It would be easy to come home and plop myself in front of the TV, but my family will have to come first. I'm certain that this determination will be challenged.

Edit: Now this is annoying, I'm trying to get in a little Sunday afternoon home study in when everyone is away at church and now THE CAT FEELS NEGLECTED AND WANTS SOME ATTENTION. Ok, here is one family member that I can shut out.

There is no way that you are spending 95 productive hours a week. I'd estimate that most medical students work less than 60 hours a week. I mean true work hours, that is to say, time spent learning high yield material in an active focused state.

 

[Ortho Guy]

My perspective is this:

Understand there is a huge investment of time, money, emotion and energy. Then determine if you can pay the price.

Medical school doesn't have to be awful, it really depends on your aspirations in the field. Just passing isn't that hard. Review the charting outcomes for 2011, there are plenty of specialties that are not difficult to match into (P=MD specialties). There are also some specialties that are less demanding comparatively to things like neurosurgery.

I see a lot of medical students not taking advantage of downtime, taking constant breaks, focusing on low yield material to satisfy their curiosity, listening to low-yield poor lecturers, and working in an unfocused manner. These activities stretch an 8 hr work day to 12 hrs. Realize that.

I've read this thread a couple of times since Mr Hat originally posted. Thank you Mr Hat for your honest post. I've thought a lot about what many of you have written. As a 31yo non-trad just starting back into this quest, keeping my family together is a extremely important to me... something I am not willing to sacrifice.

This would be the wrong conclusion: going to medical = breaking up a family.