Why is it frowned upon for doctors to date their patients?

[mrh125]

Honestly, if I met a cute girl patient I liked i'd date her in a heart beat. I don't see how that would interfere with the level of care I could provide a patient even though it's the old hippocratic oath then again that same oath is against abortion or voluntarily euthanasia and praises the greek gods so it's not exactly the most current document ever. If we broke up, I'd just have another doctor assigned to her, so i dont see the problem.

Why is it frowned upon for doctors to date their patients?

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[wtr24]

Can we just delete this now?

 

[deleted407021]

I never know what to think about you, mate. You don't seem to be the same person all the time.

*sigh* /thread

 

[Aerus]

If I heard that you dated one of your patients, I would never recommend my sister to you or allow my daughter to be treated by you...

 

[mrh125]

I never know what to think about you, mate. You don't seem to be the same person all the time.

*sigh* /thread

lol what on earth are you talking about? I'm helpful and I ask stuff that I have questions about based off of my views. explain. I'm just not into artificially imposed limitations. Everyone has different views about different things that doesn't mean i'm a diff person lol.

 

[mrh125]

If I heard that you dated one of your patients, I would never recommend my sister to you or allow my daughter to be treated by you...

so whats the difference between dating a doctor you're seeing and dating someone else? I'm not seeing the difference. YOu're still dating someone you like and ultimately that's what matters. This isn't the 12th century.

Can we just delete this now?

and what good would that do? I have a valid question and i'm not seeing the problem.

 

[Quizlet04]

Assuming you're being serious and not trolling, there are two problems.

1) You're abusing the power dynamic. Like it or not, doctors have a position of power and you both may not be fully aware of it, but you are using your position to get what you want. Any information you've gathered in the context of curing now becomes fair game for use during the relationship. Fears, needs, dislikes, likes, all were divulged in one setting. You're now using them in another.

2)

I don't see how that would interfere with the level of care I could provide a patient

is crap, absolutely. You will be biased in favor of one approach because you may want to keep her around longer. You may be more aggressive, slight other patients to help your girlfriend. It's normal, but it's absolutely interfering.

 

[Aerus]

so whats the difference between dating a doctor you're seeing and dating someone else? I'm not seeing the difference. YOu're still dating someone you like and ultimately that's what matters. This isn't the 12th century.



and what good would that do? I have a valid question and i'm not seeing the problem.

Let's get this clear. Being a doctor means you're in a position of power. Dating one of your patients is an abuse of that power.

I'm not going to even talk about how unprofessional that is and what kind of reputation you would give, to not only yourself, but the place you work at.

 

[Oso]

Honestly, if I met a cute girl patient I liked i'd date her in a heart beat. I don't see how that would interfere with the level of care I could provide a patient even though it's the old hippocratic oath then again that same oath is against abortion or voluntarily euthanasia and praises the greek gods so it's not exactly the most current document ever. If we broke up, I'd just have another doctor assigned to her, so i dont see the problem.

Why is it frowned upon for doctors to date their patients?

so whats the difference between dating a doctor you're seeing and dating someone else? I'm not seeing the difference. YOu're still dating someone you like and ultimately that's what matters. This isn't the 12th century.



and what good would that do? I have a valid question and i'm not seeing the problem.

 

[mrh125]

Let's get this clear. Being a doctor means you're in a position of power. Dating one of your patients is an abuse of that power.

I'm not going to even talk about how unprofessional that is and what kind of reputation you would give, to not only yourself, but the place you work at.

how exactly is that an abuse of power? define abuse of power and what makes it unprofessional instead of throwing around buzz words plz. if two people like each other they should be able to date and I'm not really seeing how it compromises your level of care. professors date students, doctors date patients, kings date peasants. People who like each other are going to do what they want and I have no idea how that is an abuse of power in anyway shape or form. If you could give me a concrete example I'd be open to it.

 

[deleted407021]

lol what on earth are you talking about? I'm helpful and I ask stuff that I have questions about based off of my views. explain. I'm just not into artificially imposed limitations.

Often, you are helpful and contributive. You do ask some good questions, but on occasion (or rather too often) you make a post like this, which is quite clearly ridiculous. I'm not going to detail the reasons why being romantically and/or sexually involved is an abuse of a physician's social position, because more knowledgeable people will be doing that.

 

[Oso]

how exactly is that an abuse of power? define abuse of power and what makes it unprofessional instead of throwing around buzz words plz. if two people like each other they should be able to date and I'm not really seeing how it compromises your level of care. professors date students, doctors date patients, kings date peasants. People who like each other are going to do what they want and I have no idea how that is an abuse of power in anyway shape or form. If you could give me a concrete example I'd be open to it.

This post and the fact that you don't understand what people are telling you is concerning and makes me question your judgement.

 

[James1992]

Well if it wasn't frowned upon I could see some potential ramifications. For example: Patients no longer feel secure and safe going to see their doctor because they are now treating their patients like potential dates. It's an image thing. This is only one reason why it's probably not a good idea....

 

[mrh125]

Often, you are helpful and contributive. You do ask some good questions, but on occasion (or rather too often) you make a post like this, which is quite clearly ridiculous. I'm not going to detail the reasons why being romantically and/or sexually involved is an abuse of a physician's social position, because more knowledgeable people will be doing that.

I'm very relativistic and liberal from a social point of view meaning that in my mind if two people like each other they should be able to do what they want to a reasonable extent and I had to study the hippocratic oath for an internship and this got me wondering. If there's concrete reasons I'd very much like to know. That's all.

 

[mrh125]

Well if it wasn't frowned upon I could see some potential ramifications. For example: Patients no longer feel secure and safe going to see their doctor because they are now treating their patients like potential dates. It's an image thing. This is only one reason why it's probably not a good idea....

that makes a lot of sense. Yes, it does remove a lot of the security and dating involves a lot of unnecessary drama and often times insecurities. I see that. It'd make a lot of patients very insecure to be examined and hit on by a doctor. Just today I had to deal with a creepy patient dude trying to hit on some girl I was pushing around on a gurney who was getting a morphine drip. Really irritating experience.

 

[deleted407021]

I'm very relativistic and liberal from a social point of view meaning that in my mind if two people like each other they should be able to do what they want to a reasonable extent and I had to study the hippocratic oath for an internship and this got me wondering. If there's concrete reasons I'd very much like to know. That's all.

Alrighty. The "reasonable extent" in this situation is not at all. If you want something concrete, here you go:

From the AMA; http://www.ama-assn.org//ama/pub/ph...al-ethics/code-medical-ethics/opinion814.page
Sexual contact that occurs concurrent with the patient-physician relationship constitutes sexual misconduct. Sexual or romantic interactions between physicians and patients detract from the goals of the physician-patient relationship, may exploit the vulnerability of the patient, may obscure the physician’s objective judgment concerning the patient’s health care, and ultimately may be detrimental to the patient’s well-being.

and

Sexual or romantic relationships between a physician and a former patient may be unduly influenced by the previous physician-patient relationship. Sexual or romantic relationships with former patients are unethical if the physician uses or exploits trust, knowledge, emotions, or influence derived from the previous professional relationship. (I, II, IV)

 

[terp720]

how exactly is that an abuse of power? define abuse of power and what makes it unprofessional instead of throwing around buzz words plz. if two people like each other they should be able to date and I'm not really seeing how it compromises your level of care. professors date students, doctors date patients, kings date peasants. People who like each other are going to do what they want and I have no idea how that is an abuse of power in anyway shape or form. If you could give me a concrete example I'd be open to it.

umm.. I think many would argue this is unethical if they are current students, if not actually against policy at many schools

 

[mrh125]

Alrighty. The "reasonable extent" in this situation is not at all. If you want something concrete, here you go:

From the AMA; http://www.ama-assn.org//ama/pub/ph...al-ethics/code-medical-ethics/opinion814.page
Sexual contact that occurs concurrent with the patient-physician relationship constitutes sexual misconduct. Sexual or romantic interactions between physicians and patients detract from the goals of the physician-patient relationship, may exploit the vulnerability of the patient, may obscure the physician’s objective judgment concerning the patient’s health care, and ultimately may be detrimental to the patient’s well-being.

and

Sexual or romantic relationships between a physician and a former patient may be unduly influenced by the previous physician-patient relationship. Sexual or romantic relationships with former patients are unethical if the physician uses or exploits trust, knowledge, emotions, or influence derived from the previous professional relationship. (I, II, IV)

You're right thanks for that. It's just a matter of seeing things from the right perspective. I was trying to give the situation the benefit of the doubt, but I know I understand bc of your post and the james' post. It's kind of weird that this is in the old hippocratic oath and not the new one though.

Also, mods you got permission to lock this thread now that it's explained for the pre-emptive case it turns into a flame war.

 

[ChEMD]

Maybe some of you are that naive, but doctors date former patients all the time. It truly is situation dependent. Is it okay for a doctor to hit on a patient when they come into see them? Definitely not. Is it okay for a doctor to ask out a former patient if they run into each other in a non-professional setting? MAYBE, it depends!

Take this scenario: A man comes in with appendicitis, a female surgeon takes out his appendix. There is an obvious attraction between the two, but their actions are strictly professional while he is her patient. Later, once he is no longer her patient, one of them asks the other out. What is wrong with this scenario? The answer is NOTHING.

This question isn't as dumb as some of you may think. Its a real question that doesn't have a strict yes or no answer, so don't be so quick to dismiss it when it's something that comes up more often than you may think.

 

[James1992]

that makes a lot of sense. Yes, it does remove a lot of the security and dating involves a lot of unnecessary drama and often times insecurities. I see that. It'd make a lot of patients very insecure to be examined and hit on by a doctor. Just today I had to deal with a creepy patient dude trying to hit on some girl I was pushing around on a gurney who was getting a morphine drip. Really irritating experience.

Of course this depends on the type of doctor you will become, but it's of the utmost importance to keep honesty and integrity intact. Just imagine a scenario such as this:

You begin asking your patient questions and you ask the cute girl about sexual history yata yata yata. She interprets these questions as flirtation and she lies about her history. This leads you to interpret the scenario differently because of the lies and medical care is compromised. Something may seem harmless at first, but if you don't act carefully it may lead to something dangerous. Genuine question though and I respect it. I just hope you learn from this thread lol

 

[terp720]

Maybe some of you are that naive, but doctors date former patients all the time. It truly is situation dependent. Is it okay for a doctor to hit on a patient when they come into see them? Definitely not. Is it okay for a doctor to ask out a former patient if they run into each other in a non-professional setting? MAYBE, it depends!

Take this scenario: A man comes in with appendicitis, a female surgeon takes out his appendix. There is an obvious attraction between the two, but their actions are strictly professional while he is her patient. Later, once he is no longer her patient, one of them asks the other out. What is wrong with this scenario? The answer is NOTHING.

This question isn't as dumb as some of you may think. Its a real question that doesn't have a strict yes or no answer, so don't be so quick to dismiss it when it's something that comes up more often than you may think.

I think people interpreted this as current patients. this "If we broke up, I'd just have another doctor assigned to her, so i dont see the problem" seemed to indicate a relationship while still acting as the person's physician.

edit: or at least that's what I interpreted from OP's post

 

[Mad Jack]

Honestly, if I met a cute girl patient I liked i'd date her in a heart beat. I don't see how that would interfere with the level of care I could provide a patient even though it's the old hippocratic oath then again that same oath is against abortion or voluntarily euthanasia and praises the greek gods so it's not exactly the most current document ever. If we broke up, I'd just have another doctor assigned to her, so i dont see the problem.

Why is it frowned upon for doctors to date their patients?

 

[solitarius]

OP, don't become one of those 5,000 post SDN members who never get into medical school.

 

[mrh125]

OP, don't become one of those 5,000 post SDN members who never get into medical school.

I don't plan to. 1000% effort is going into this application and it's one of the hardest things i've ever worked on between my undergrad and the mcat, if I don't get in i'm not gonna circlejerk here. that'd do me a net good of zero.

 

[mrh125]

I think people interpreted this as current patients. this "If we broke up, I'd just have another doctor assigned to her, so i dont see the problem" seemed to indicate a relationship while still acting as the person's physician.

edit: or at least that's what I interpreted from OP's post

exactly.

Of course this depends on the type of doctor you will become, but it's of the utmost importance to keep honesty and integrity intact. Just imagine a scenario such as this:

You begin asking your patient questions and you ask the cute girl about sexual history yata yata yata. She interprets these questions as flirtation and she lies about her history. This leads you to interpret the scenario differently because of the lies and medical care is compromised. Something may seem harmless at first, but if you don't act carefully it may lead to something dangerous. Genuine question though and I respect it. I just hope you learn from this thread lol

that makes perfect sense. lesson learned

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

"Nail them while they're vulnerable. That's my motto."

-Sean Maguire (Goodwill Hunting)

 

[ChEMD]

I think people interpreted this as current patients. this "If we broke up, I'd just have another doctor assigned to her, so i dont see the problem" seemed to indicate a relationship while still acting as the person's physician.

edit: or at least that's what I interpreted from OP's post

This situation still comes up and it isn't necessarily black and white. Should you ask the patient out? No, that's probably an abuse of power. But what if they make the first move? Is it okay then, even if she's your current patient? I dunno, IT DEPENDS! If you're her psychiatrist and are managing a mental illness, it's probably not okay. If you're her family physician and you're just doing routine physicals, why the hell not! She asked you, no abuse of power there. But if that's the case, it is important that you no longer remain her physician and refer to one of your colleagues for her future medical care.

Like I said before, it isn't all black and white, it all depends.

 

[mrh125]

This situation still comes up and it isn't necessarily black and white. Should you ask the patient out? No, that's probably an abuse of power. But what if they make the first move? Is it okay then, even if she's your current patient? I dunno, IT DEPENDS! If you're her psychiatrist and are managing a mental illness, it's probably not okay. If you're her family physician and you're just doing routine physicals, why the hell not! She asked you, no abuse of power there. But if that's the case, it is important that you no longer remain her physician and refer to one of your colleagues for her future medical care.

Like I said before, it isn't all black and white, it all depends.

this is also more of what i was thinking about in the first post too,but i didnt mention exactly. it can definitely complicate things that's for sure though. i'm tired bah.

 

[terp720]

This situation still comes up and it isn't necessarily black and white. Should you ask the patient out? No, that's probably an abuse of power. But what if they make the first move? Is it okay then, even if she's your current patient? I dunno, IT DEPENDS! If you're her psychiatrist and are managing a mental illness, it's probably not okay. If you're her family physician and you're just doing routine physicals, why the hell not! She asked you, no abuse of power there. But if that's the case, it is important that you no longer remain her physician and refer to one of your colleagues for her future medical care.

Like I said before, it isn't all black and white, it all depends.

ok? but both of your points indicate that it's unethical to date a CURRENT patient since you say it's important to no longer remain her (or his) physician.
mrh was asking about dating a patient while still being their doctor (and only referring them elsewhere if you broke up).

 

[Gauss44]

What about past patients? Does it matter how many times the patient has seen the doctor? What if you had a romance going years ago with someone you knew on a first name basis (no last name), then years later, accidentally scheduled an appointment with that person (who turned out to be a doctor) - and you wanted to ask that doctor out?

 

[KnuxNole]

If you want to date your patient, remember they have to find another provider since once you start dating, the physician-patient relationship is gone in an instant. Would also make an interesting story to tell the kids how you met mommy 😛

 

[Doctor Strange]

 

[lumpyduster]

This just makes me think of professors dating students... You're in a position of power, dude... But... I think if she's no longer your patient it's fine, right?

 

[WestCoastNative]

I think it all depends on what your specialty is. If you're a gynecologist and try to hook up with your patients, than I can definitely see some lawsuits coming your way. If you're a plastic surgeon, than I'm sure that it'd work out more the way that you're hoping. Idk about you, but I'd be flattered if a female plastic surgeon made advances towards me, considering all of the imperfections they see

 

[deleted407021]

@lumpyduster @Gauss44 See post #16. Romantic relationships with former patients are considered unethical.

 

[lumpyduster]

^^That's fair. Just kinda skimmed the thread before replying 🙂

 

[Lucca]

Why was I studying instead of reading this thread

 

[deleted407021]

Why was I studying instead of reading this thread

After 9 hours in a library studying for the Ochem ACS, I've earned this.

 

[Gauss44]

@lumpyduster @Gauss44 See post #16. Romantic relationships with former patients are considered unethical.

I read that, but I'm wondering if there's more to it, and how strict and concrete those rules are? What happens if you are a doctor and dating someone who makes an appointment at your practice without your knowing. Then say the patient is treated by your staff? Or you fell in love with someone in high school while dating another person and missed the opportunity to be with your true love (who's last name you never knew). Then years and years later, halfway through a doctor's appointment, you realize your patient is that person, and that you are still in love? Is there no solution?

 

[deleted407021]

I read that, but I'm wondering if there's more to it, and how strict and concrete those rules are? What happens if you are a doctor and dating someone who makes an appointment at your practice without your knowing. Then say the patient is treated by your staff? Or you fell in love with someone in high school while dating another person and missed the opportunity to be with your true love (who's last name you never knew). Then years and years later, halfway through a doctor's appointment, you realize your patient is that person, and that you are still in love? Is there no solution?

They appear to be quite clear and concrete. You don't become involved with a patient in a romantic or sexual capacity. Sucks for people in such a situation. Or you could go all James Freakin' Kirk on the system and hit that anyway. It's your (credibility's) funeral.

 

[Xenoblade]

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

op I imagine the interaction going something like this:

 

[Gauss44]

I read that, but I'm wondering if there's more to it, and how strict and concrete those rules are? What happens if you are a doctor and dating someone who makes an appointment at your practice without your knowing. Then say the patient is treated by your staff? Or you fell in love with someone in high school while dating another person and missed the opportunity to be with your true love (who's last name you never knew). Then years and years later, halfway through a doctor's appointment, you realize your patient is that person, and that you are still in love? Is there no solution?

What if your wife or fiancee makes an appointment with your staff without you're knowing? Or if you as a doctor overlooked this rule and have been treating someone who you are, and have been, in a committed relationship with? Do you loose your license?

 

[Gauss44]

What if you have a friendship with a patient and later fall in love? Can you at least marry in retirement? What if you only saw the patient once?

 

[ChemEngMD]

They appear to be quite clear and concrete. You don't become involved with a patient in a romantic or sexual capacity. Sucks for people in such a situation. Or you could go all James Freakin' Kirk on the system and hit that anyway. It's your (credibility's) funeral.

It said it's unethical IF "the physician uses or exploits trust, knowledge, emotions, or influence derived from the previous professional relationship"

This means that you cannot blackmail the person or emotionally exploit them by using information you attained through being their physician. It means that you CAN be in a relationship with the individual if you are no longer their physician AND you NEVER utilize the knowledge that you gained as their physician.

That quote definitely did not explicitly say you couldn't date a former patient. It simply laid out standards for what was "unethical" behavior versus "ethical".

 

[DK2014]

I hope the OP never becomes a doctor. I'd be scared as a single girl.

 

[radkat101]

I hope the OP never becomes a doctor. I'd be scared as a single girl.

That's pretty harsh. OP didn't say anything THAT scary and dating what would essentially be a client in any other field of work wouldn't really be frowned upon. It's actually an interesting question the more I think about it. The level of weirdness would totally depend on the field and the details of how the relationship developed.

 

[mrh125]

I hope the OP never becomes a doctor. I'd be scared as a single girl.

that's just a stupid comment over a simple question designed to get people to think a bit. Talk about overreacting over dating w/o even bothering to look at the potential context. Dating has absolutely nothing to do with creeping random girls. Two totally separate things. On the otherhand, here's another good reason why dating may not be considered acceptable in certain parts of medicine: you won't have to be accused of sexual harassment due to potential hypersensitivity (though regardless of whether or not it is actual hypersensitivity one still has to respect the patient's boundaries for obvious reasons). Not every guy is gonna creep and most sentient people, myself included have an idea of what boundaries are, just so you know.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

Your last reason is probably the most critical, followed by inability to make objective decisions due to romantic involvement with the patient, and then the position of power. At the end of the day it is a risk management policy. Sure some people could
Be capable of having a relationship and moving on like mature adults always remaining objective. But in reality anything that has human emotions involved have little certainty and that is just too risky in a profession where someone's health is involved. Former relationships usually aren't as bad, across professions the major concern is dual relationships. But there are usually an acceptable time periods following that person being your patient when a relationship becomes okay.

Ditto mental health professions, who also have rules about relationships with family/close friends of the patient...idk if med is the same on that one...don't work in a small town 😀

 

[darkjedi]

thank god you're not getting into med school

 

[Goro]

Actually, no, they don't. The AAUP and most Faculty handbooks describe that Faculty dating students as a breach of professionalism and can lead to termination at my school. That power dynamic you seem to be grasping.

professors date students,

To your original question, go google "conflict of interest".