Why is it frowned upon for doctors to date their patients?

[TheBossDoctor]

Because if you decide to marry that patient, you'll end up leaving him at the altar and breaking his heart

obligatory "How I Met Your Mother" reference

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[Beargryllz]

I think the key is "patients" and not "former patients"

I hope most doctors have a lot more former patients than actual patients

Because everybody gets sick but most of us aren't always sick

 

[mrh125]

thank god you're not getting into med school

who the **** said that lmao and what sort of authority are you on the matter? Oh yea, absolutely none. If actually thinking like I am to learn is a crime and good reason to not get in medical school i'd like to see what great medical malpractice on patients you're going to pull out of your butt in the next 5+ years. You're probably going to be the dude who leaves a ton of scapels in someone's abdomen or something, gives the person with an antibacterial allergy penicillin, or follows gross over-generalizations to treat patients at their expense just because you can't think independently and because of your lack of thought. You should probably start scoring the contact info to some nice expensive attorneys for those malpractice suits, bro.

As for me I'll keep thinking and use my thoughts to understand everything I can, which is why I'm going to get into medical school.

 

[LizzyM]

I think the key is "patients" and not "former patients"

I hope most doctors have a lot more former patients than actual patients

Because everybody gets sick but most of us aren't always sick

That's presuming that people go to the doctor because they are sick and stop going when they are well. Primary care providers care for people for decades. If they have former patients, it is because a patient was unhappy, was forced to change because of a change in insurance coverage, or moved out of the area. A PCP may have more current patients than former patients.

Please be gentle with the OP, I think he's still in HS and really doesn't know much about the world.

 

[Patros]

To all those asking "what if" questions, you may be missing the point. Anyone can come up with extreme or extenuating circumstances that let you bend or break the rules. Is it always wrong to kill someone? No, but as a general principle, it's unethical. Is it always wrong to steal something? No, but it usually is. Is it always wrong for a physician to make or accept romantic advances to/from patients? No, but it almost always is.

Note that I am saying that medical ethics is both virtue and principle based, just to be flexible. If it is only principle-based (deontology), then you would argue it is always wrong. If it is only virtue-based, then you would argue that there is no need for rules, and you can figure things out on the fly. I think too many folks arguing here are too heavily entrenched on one side, while in practice you would need both.

So anyway, you should approach these problems knowing what society expects of you (don’t get involved in patient’s romantic lives!) and knowing what your own personal values are (I’m working for the good of the patient, but also for my own good). So if you find out one of your ex-patients is your soulmate, then nobody will hold it against you for getting romantically involved. But if you are flirting with patients on a general basis, it should be self-evident why this is unethical (abuse of physician-patient relationship, as mentioned earlier).

 

[tmn]

Is it okay then, even if she's your current patient? I dunno, IT DEPENDS!

Unmmm no. The AMA excerpt quoted earlier is explicit about this.

 

[Oso]

who the **** said that lmao and what sort of authority are you on the matter? Oh yea, absolutely none. If actually thinking like I am to learn is a crime and good reason to not get in medical school i'd like to see what great medical malpractice on patients you're going to pull out of your butt in the next 5+ years. You're probably going to be the dude who leaves a ton of scapels in someone's abdomen or something, gives the person with an antibacterial allergy penicillin, or follows gross over-generalizations to treat patients at their expense just because you can't think independently and because of your lack of thought. You should probably start scoring the contact info to some nice expensive attorneys for those malpractice suits, bro.

As for me I'll keep thinking and use my thoughts to understand everything I can, which is why I'm going to get into medical school.

why must you do this?

I agree that the post you're responding to was unnecessarily harsh, but your response here is totally immature and out of line , even in the context of this thread. You've gotten a lot of responses here. I hope you learned something, now I suggest we let this thread go. Lastly, and this is not meant to be a personal attack, your last sentence (underlined) makes zero sense.

 

[mrh125]

why must you do this?

I agree that the post you're responding to was unnecessarily harsh, but your response here is totally immature and out of line , even in the context of this thread. You've gotten a lot of responses here. I hope you learned something, now I suggest we let this thread go. Lastly, and this is not meant to be a personal attack, your last sentence (underlined) makes zero sense.

it's no different than the rest of the stupid attack posts in this thread. if people want to play hardball and can't post diplomatically I have no problem replying to them in the same way. most people have no problem explaining stuff without asinine comments like the one I quoted, so even posting stuff like he did is just stupid and inciting that sort of response. I just want to have a conversation without baseless attacks. Respect me,I respect you is the bottom line.

The last sentence does make sense because the point of asking questions such as what I asked is to consider things from every point of view and therefore develop a more comprehensive understanding, which will suit me well in medicine.

 

[tmn]

The last sentence does make sense because the point of asking questions such as what I asked is to consider things from every point of view and therefore develop a more comprehensive understanding, which will suit me well in medicine.

Use that as your personal statement.

 

[wtr24]

Out of curiosity OP, how old are you--or what phase of pre-med life are you in (if you'd rather answer that question).

Assuming you actually wanted a discussion on this question...

The doctor-patient relationship is a unique and protected relationship. A romantic or sexual relationship between a doctor and his/her patient is a gross violation of the trust that Patients (as a whole) place in Doctors (as a whole) to provide them with medical care without bias or motivation aside from what is best for the patient. If and when you get to medical school you will start to appreciate the responsibilities and 'social contract' you are agreeing to when you become a health professional.

 

[mrh125]

Use that as your personal statement.

haha i'm going to. 🙂. It won't contain any juicy doctor-patient relationships though if i've ever forced for some reason to become a romance novel writer I might do some of that lmao (not).

 

[mrh125]

Out of curiosity OP, how old are you--or what phase of pre-med life are you in (if you'd rather answer that question).

Assuming you actually wanted a discussion on this question...

The doctor-patient relationship is a unique and protected relationship. A romantic or sexual relationship between a doctor and his/her patient is a gross violation of the trust that Patients (as a whole) place in Doctors (as a whole) to provide them with medical care without bias or motivation aside from what is best for the patient. If and when you get to medical school you will start to appreciate the responsibilities and 'social contract' you are agreeing to when you become a health professional.

22, graduated from undergrad, applying, shadowed and volunteered a ton. I'm not in medical school yet and I have a lot to learn but i'm just asking something i'm curious about. When I first brought this up I was genuinely curious because it struck me as odd after reading the hippocratic oath.

 

[wtr24]

Do you think that doctors can provide unbiased medical care for the people they care about? Would you like to operate on your loved one? Would your write a Rx for your SO if they asked you too?

 

[Quizlet04]

Do you think that doctors can provide unbiased medical care for the people they care about? Would you like to operate on your loved one? Would your write a Rx for your SO if they asked you too?

That last one could end up with your license suspended depending on the prescription. An emergency script for Synthroid because of a delayed doctor's appointment *might* pass muster. Almost anything else, not so much. My friends have refused to prescribe me drugs that I need because they like having their licenses even though I don't take anything more exciting than antidepressants.

This kid is definitely in the "asks for advice, argues with suggestions" category. He already knows his answer and he's just trying to show everyone else that his reasons are more useful and more important than all of our objections. He also has not acknowledgedwhat a conflict of interest or power dynamic is, suggesting he's really picking and choosing.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Since everyone was posting realistic hypotheticals in here:

What if you went to a crazy swinger party (a la Eyes Wide Shut) where everyone wore masks and engaged in "relations" with one another and then realized at the end of the night that some of the people there were your patients!?

Then what if one of those people stopped being your patient, moved to South America, and then when you were on vacation in Brazil for the World Cup (in lets say 2038) you ran into that patient you had relations with and fell in love!? What if he/she had given up their American citizenship!? What if they had a sex change!?

THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.

 

[mrh125]

That's presuming that people go to the doctor because they are sick and stop going when they are well. Primary care providers care for people for decades. If they have former patients, it is because a patient was unhappy, was forced to change because of a change in insurance coverage, or moved out of the area. A PCP may have more current patients than former patients.

Please be gentle with the OP, I think he's still in HS and really doesn't know much about the world.

last bit of your post is a bit too assuming. I was just thinking of it in a different way than you were and I admitted the faults of my logic. Also, last time I checked the hippocratic oath was hardly a high schooling reading assignment. high schools students don't take the mcat, graduate from college simultaneously or apply to med school in high school, so unless you're implying i'm a gifted prodigy kindly rescind your opinion.

 

[mrh125]

That last one could end up with your license suspended depending on the prescription. An emergency script for Synthroid because of a delayed doctor's appointment *might* pass muster. Almost anything else, not so much. My friends have refused to prescribe me drugs that I need because they like having their licenses even though I don't take anything more exciting than antidepressants.

This kid is definitely in the "asks for advice, argues with suggestions" category. He already knows his answer and he's just trying to show everyone else that his reasons are more useful and more important than all of our objections. He also has not acknowledgedwhat a conflict of interest or power dynamic is, suggesting he's really picking and choosing.

nope to the last bit of your post. I acknowledge all of the reasons everyone has given that haven't been insulting. I just haven't replied to the conflict of interest posts. If I actually thought my opinion about this was more important than anyone elses I wouldnt bother accepting the validity of others. Also, regardless of what you say labeling me as a kid hardly asserts your superiority over me and what was that you were saying about views being more useful others because that goes well with your "omg you're a kid shtick". labeling a person as a kid is a silly easy way to tout your supposed superiority or rather more realistically inferiority because you have to resort to name calling to prove your point.

Believe it or not i'm actually asking questions because I want to know and see things from a different pov.

 

[wtr24]

nope to the last bit of your post. I acknowledge all of the reasons everyone has given that haven't been insulting.

You didn't respond to my post.

 

[WillburCobb]

 

[mrh125]

Do you think that doctors can provide unbiased medical care for the people they care about? Would you like to operate on your loved one? Would your write a Rx for your SO if they asked you too?

they obviously can't and you have a point. writing a rx for a loved one may* (note the asterisk) be ok if they're without a prescription or doctor and running out of a medicine that can have serious consequences if being taken off of after being on for a long time on a high dose (e.g. lamotrigine can induce seizures if being suddenly taken off). I obviously wouldn't recommend operating on a loved one in any way even if it could easily be romanticized or seen as heroic, just imagine what happened if it didn't turn out well. talk about emotional baggage.

 

[medickdb]

Reading some of these posts is making my brain hurt, not simply because of the content, but also because the grammar and syntax are all over the place. It makes it hard to follow an argument, no matter how "logical", when the sentences lack structure.

 

[wtr24]

I obviously wouldn't recommend operating on a loved one in any way even if it could easily be romanticized or seen as heroic, just imagine what happened if it didn't turn out well. talk about emotional baggage.

Replace "operating on" with "treating." You just answered your question.

 

[Patros]

last bit of your post is a bit too assuming. I was just thinking of it in a different way than you were and I admitted the faults of my logic. Also, last time I checked the hippocratic oath was hardly a high schooling reading assignment. high schools students take the mcat, graduate from college simultaneously or apply to med school, so unless you're implying i'm a gifted prodigy kindly rescind your opinion.

Dude, I think you're going a bit overboard with the hippocratic oath. If you're referring to the classical rendition from ancient Greece, keep in mind very few physicians actually take it literally, and only treat it as a poetic way to describe a physicians duty to "work for the good of the patient." Do you intend to swear by Apollo to never do harm to anyone, ever? To never do an abortion, or do a surgery?

Have you read the modern rendition of the oath? I think its phrasing is beautiful and keeps things very abstract. This part may be relevant:

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

So you are obliged to serve not just the sick, but all of society. If people of society say, "We don't want you to flirt with us when we are sick," then you are obliged to do so.

 

[didymus]

it's no different than the rest of the stupid attack posts in this thread. if people want to play hardball and can't post diplomatically I have no problem replying to them in the same way. most people have no problem explaining stuff without asinine comments like the one I quoted, so even posting stuff like he did is just stupid and inciting that sort of response. I just want to have a conversation without baseless attacks. Respect me,I respect you is the bottom line.

The last sentence does make sense because the point of asking questions such as what I asked is to consider things from every point of view and therefore develop a more comprehensive understanding, which will suit me well in medicine.

last bit of your post is a bit too assuming. I was just thinking of it in a different way than you were and I admitted the faults of my logic. Also, last time I checked the hippocratic oath was hardly a high schooling reading assignment. high schools students take the mcat, graduate from college simultaneously or apply to med school, so unless you're implying i'm a gifted prodigy kindly rescind your opinion.

 

[mrh125]

Dude, I think you're going a bit overboard with the hippocratic oath. If you're referring to the classical rendition from ancient Greece, keep in mind very few physicians actually take it literally, and only treat it as a poetic way to describe a physicians duty to "work for the good of the patient." Do you intend to swear by Apollo to never do harm to anyone, ever? To never do an abortion, or do a surgery?

Have you read the modern rendition of the oath? I think its phrasing is beautiful and keeps things very abstract. This part may be relevant:
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

So you are obliged to serve not just the sick, but all of society. If people of society say, "We don't want you to flirt with us when we are sick," then you are obliged to do so.

yea, I had to do an assignment on comparing and contrasting the old and new hippocratic oaths for an internship. I mentioned in the first post that a lot of the original oath is a bit outdated to say the least. I'd swear by Apollo Creed though, cuz that dude was bad ass. 😛

Thanks for the insight about the new hippocratic oath. I thought the fact that the whole not dating or having relationships not being explicitly stated in the new hippocratic oath represented a change in thought, but it is implicitly stated as you noted.

 

[Lucca]

last bit of your post is a bit too assuming. I was just thinking of it in a different way than you were and I admitted the faults of my logic. Also, last time I checked the hippocratic oath was hardly a high schooling reading assignment. high schools students take the mcat, graduate from college simultaneously or apply to med school, so unless you're implying i'm a gifted prodigy kindly rescind your opinion.

What you should take away from Lizzy's post is that you need to work on your communication skills. The way you carry yourself through a conversation is very immature and considering people are generally worse at speaking than they are writing, I would suggest that you reflect on that. Once you get on the interview trail, if you do, you will need to come off as professional, trust-worthy, and mature. This is constructive criticism and not meant to be derogatory.

 

[mrh125]

What you should take away from Lizzy's post is that you need to work on your communication skills. The way you carry yourself through a conversation is very immature and considering people are generally worse at speaking than they are writing, I would suggest that you reflect on that. Once you get on the interview trail, if you do, you will need to come off as professional, trust-worthy, and mature. This is constructive criticism and not meant to be derogatory.

I appreciate the constructive criticism, but online I'm far more informal and short-hand bc it's just forum posting. Point taken though. I'll always accept criticism as long it's constructive 🙂.

 

[NorthernMav]

I love SDN.

 

[OrgasmicChemistry]

professors date students, doctors date patients, kings date peasants.

Good thing none of these relationships could be misconstrued as exploitative or unethical!

 

[Lamel]

Current patients is a bad idea.

Former ones are probably okay, as long as you don't use their personal information in a manipulative way of course.

 

[fuzzytoad]

I feel like OP probably hasn't dated much.

Or is someone who would argue that pedophilia is OK if the child consents.

Or is willing to put a lot of effort into a troll.

 

[darkjedi]

who the **** said that lmao and what sort of authority are you on the matter? Oh yea, absolutely none. If actually thinking like I am to learn is a crime and good reason to not get in medical school i'd like to see what great medical malpractice on patients you're going to pull out of your butt in the next 5+ years. You're probably going to be the dude who leaves a ton of scapels in someone's abdomen or something, gives the person with an antibacterial allergy penicillin, or follows gross over-generalizations to treat patients at their expense just because you can't think independently and because of your lack of thought. You should probably start scoring the contact info to some nice expensive attorneys for those malpractice suits, bro.

As for me I'll keep thinking and use my thoughts to understand everything I can, which is why I'm going to get into medical school.

I'm involved with the admission process at my school, and have interviewed dozens of applicants. People who act like you are automatic rejections.

 

[fuzzytoad]

professors date students, doctors date patients, kings date peasants.

 

[candbgirl]

OP you really need to stop posting unless you are going for some kind of award.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[studentp0x]

That last one could end up with your license suspended depending on the prescription. An emergency script for Synthroid because of a delayed doctor's appointment *might* pass muster. Almost anything else, not so much. My friends have refused to prescribe me drugs that I need because they like having their licenses even though I don't take anything more exciting than antidepressants.

This kid is definitely in the "asks for advice, argues with suggestions" category. He already knows his answer and he's just trying to show everyone else that his reasons are more useful and more important than all of our objections. He also has not acknowledgedwhat a conflict of interest or power dynamic is, suggesting he's really picking and choosing.

what's wrong with prescribing your friends general things?

 

[fuzzytoad]

what's wrong with prescribing your friends general things?

One reason is because it is much more difficult to refuse a script that a friend thinks she needs. Another might be that it's a lot easier to ignore the warning signs of abuse if it's your friend. The list goes on. In general any serious relationship (sexual or not) obfuscates judgment by creating (a) conflicts of interest where helping some one might mean doing something against their desire or (b) situations where we act negligently as a result of some misplaced sense of trust in the other party.

And (c), perhaps most understatedly, because self awareness of these pitfalls is not immunity to them.

 

[mrh125]

I'm involved with the admission process at my school, and have interviewed dozens of applicants. People who act like you are automatic rejections.

Good for you. It's so nice of you to make ridic assumptions based off limited interactions without even bothering to dabble into the context. You're only one authority at one place tho, so enough ****ty generalizations. Thx

 

[mrh125]

It happens dude and will continue happening. Not seeing the reason for the facepalm although it is unethical it's a valid question and observation.

OP you really need to stop posting unless you are going for some kind of award.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

Nah as long as I have questions and want to discuss something imma keep posting. It's not disrupting anything aside from keeping the incessant whiners whining.

 

[darkjedi]

Good for you. It's so nice of you to make ridic assumptions based off limited interactions without even bothering to dabble into the context. You're only one authority at one place tho, so enough ****** generalizations. Thx

guess what interviews are 🙂

 

[mrh125]

I feel like OP probably hasn't dated much.

Or is someone who would argue that pedophilia is OK if the child consents.

Or is willing to put a lot of effort into a troll.

I've dated a lot but I'm more into hookups because there's a lot less drama and worries In it. I'm more into freestyle fun anyway . Pedophilia is wrong and this ain't trolling so keep your idiotic generalizations to yourself.

 

[fuzzytoad]

It happens dude and will continue happening. Not seeing the problem

Is that our fault though, or yours?

You think pedophilia is wrong, but clearly see no issue with relationships where there exists a massive power disparity between the engaged parties. Am I missing something here or are you about to talk yourself into a corner?

Also, just pre-empting the lols below: you realize darkjedi is already in med school right?

 

[mrh125]

guess what interviews are 🙂

>implying anything I say would be misconstrued or I would carry myself this way in interviews.

If you want to talk about something that comes across ****ty interviews lets talk about your ridiculous assumptions, blanket statements and unwillingness to think. Last time I checked med schools don't select for arrogant know it alls.

 

[mrh125]

Is that our fault though, or yours?

You think pedophilia is wrong, but clearly see no issue with relationships where there exists a massive power disparity between the engaged parties. Am I missing something here or are you about to talk yourself into a corner?

You're reading far too deep into my reply and taking it out of context. I'm just asking what's with the ****ing face palm considering that it does happen all the time In a multitude of different contexts. It's a question

 

[terp720]

Because if you decide to marry that patient, you'll end up leaving him at the altar and breaking his heart

obligatory "How I Met Your Mother" reference

or getting a divorce.... and ending up on a magical island--- "Lost" reference!

 

[fuzzytoad]

You're reading far too deep into my reply and taking it out of context. I'm just asking what's with the ******* face palm considering that it does happen all the time In a multitude of different contexts. It's a question

Pretty sure I'm not reading too far into it. I mean, theres not much in it to read is there: you presented 3 instances of X dating Y, and all 3 instances would be considered irregular and frowned upon in general by society. So in fact you have correctly paralleled doctor/patient dating with 3 other inappropriate types of relationships, but we are still having this conversation.

It seems to me that you're confusing the difference between when something "exists" and when something is "appropriate". Time to go back to grade 2.

 

[mrh125]

Pretty sure I'm not reading too far into it. I mean, theres not much in it to read is there: you presented 3 instances of X dating Y, and all 3 instances would be considered irregular and frowned upon in general by society. So in fact you have correctly paralleled doctor/patient dating with 3 other inappropriate types of relationships, but we are still having this conversation.

That post is old and was a valid question at the time before I developed a better understanding. Posting a stupid facepalm adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[fuzzytoad]

Posting a stupid facepalm adds nothing to the conversation.

No, but it happens all the time so it must be ok, amirite?

 

[mrh125]

No, but it happens all the time so it must be ok, amirite?

No you aren't.

 

[Ismet]

Keep the discussion civil and on topic, please. And stop with the gifs and unrelated pics.

 

[mrh125]

Keep the discussion civil and on topic, please. And stop with the gifs and unrelated pics.

Do you mind just locking this? It's just devolving and the question has been answered well. Thank you.