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Why is it so hard to get into med.school from UC BERKELEY?
Started by MED_04
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While I like that SDN likes to cut down on the whining, there is some legitimate grievances in the application process which people are entitled to complain about.
Med school is competitive, so any perceived 'advantage' one group gets is going to upset others who worked just as hard but couldn't make it in because of factors beyond their control. I guess race is one point of contention (look at aamc to see the differences in MCAT/GPA between URM and whites&asians), but there is other things like amount of money we have to shell out---secondaries and primary fees can easily add up to hundreds of dollars, not to mention flying around for interviews. It's absurd how much a kid without a 35 MCAT and 3.8 GPA has to spend in order to secure an acceptance. The entire process favors the wealthy student. There's also the matter of states residence.....a Cali student has a far harder time getting into med school than someone from, say Ohio.
Yes, life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean we can't point out the inequities of life. "Sucking it up" is another way of allowing for the status quo to continue. I don't have to complain as much as others. I live in a state whose public med school is very nice to their instaters and being asian hasn't seem to have hurt me as it did my Cali friends, but looking back on the process, I think some students certainly had the right to complain about the way adcoms run their monopoly.
Med school is competitive, so any perceived 'advantage' one group gets is going to upset others who worked just as hard but couldn't make it in because of factors beyond their control. I guess race is one point of contention (look at aamc to see the differences in MCAT/GPA between URM and whites&asians), but there is other things like amount of money we have to shell out---secondaries and primary fees can easily add up to hundreds of dollars, not to mention flying around for interviews. It's absurd how much a kid without a 35 MCAT and 3.8 GPA has to spend in order to secure an acceptance. The entire process favors the wealthy student. There's also the matter of states residence.....a Cali student has a far harder time getting into med school than someone from, say Ohio.
Yes, life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean we can't point out the inequities of life. "Sucking it up" is another way of allowing for the status quo to continue. I don't have to complain as much as others. I live in a state whose public med school is very nice to their instaters and being asian hasn't seem to have hurt me as it did my Cali friends, but looking back on the process, I think some students certainly had the right to complain about the way adcoms run their monopoly.
I hope you aren't referring to me when you speak of the med school process favoring "wealthy students." I won't describe my situation exactly but let's just say I'm on full need at Yale and I'm poor enough to get the fee waiver from AAMC.
And when I made the "crackers" comment, I wasn't referring to complaints about how tough the med school application process is, but rather to Asians whining how hard it is to get in.
And when I made the "crackers" comment, I wasn't referring to complaints about how tough the med school application process is, but rather to Asians whining how hard it is to get in.
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Hi My Dear Fellow Cal Bears,
Cal has one of the top premed program among the elites. The data from the premed career data is somewhat understated. I know in the class of 2008 at UCSF, there were 28 Cal Bears,yep you hear me right, plus the 6 in the UCSF-Berkeley joint program (if I remember correctly). However, the career center data showed only 12 from Cal. Anyway, something is missing. I am sure the acceptance rate from Cal is way up there, they are "totally understated" for some reasons.
I know it is not easy to get A, A- or even B+ at Cal, but who say it is easy be a doc? The admission at the top med schools know the great quality of Cal Bears. I know they do give you extra credits for your hard earned grades from Cal. You will run into lots of Cal Bears during the interviews everywhere.
Do not just getting reasonable good grades. You need to get some interesting outside activities, get some good clinical, research, be a great down to earth communicater etc... just my 2 cents.
In fact, UCSF loves to have all the great Cal Bears in their classes. Good luck to you all. Go Bears!!
Cal has one of the top premed program among the elites. The data from the premed career data is somewhat understated. I know in the class of 2008 at UCSF, there were 28 Cal Bears,yep you hear me right, plus the 6 in the UCSF-Berkeley joint program (if I remember correctly). However, the career center data showed only 12 from Cal. Anyway, something is missing. I am sure the acceptance rate from Cal is way up there, they are "totally understated" for some reasons.
I know it is not easy to get A, A- or even B+ at Cal, but who say it is easy be a doc? The admission at the top med schools know the great quality of Cal Bears. I know they do give you extra credits for your hard earned grades from Cal. You will run into lots of Cal Bears during the interviews everywhere.
Do not just getting reasonable good grades. You need to get some interesting outside activities, get some good clinical, research, be a great down to earth communicater etc... just my 2 cents.
In fact, UCSF loves to have all the great Cal Bears in their classes. Good luck to you all. Go Bears!!
I heard that Berkeley has an arrangement with med schools to allow students to only take 1 semester of ochem and 1 sem of biochem to fulfill the 1 yr organic chem requirement. 1.) is this true? 2.) if it is, do you think this puts UCB students at a disadvantage because they are not completing all the coursework? (for example, some schools require biochemistry...so do you take 2 semesters of biochem for those schools or do you just get out of that requirement?)
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chandelantern said:
This is because Berkeley doesnt require students to take two semester of general chem unless you're a chem major. Chem 3A is basically half general chem and half organic chem.
UCSF Bear said:
I didn't go here, although I was recruited for your field hockey team in '95 after being accepted(kicking myself that I didn't go), and I grew up drinking beer at big game on fraternity row at not-quite-the-legal-age (like, reverse the numbers of the legal age). I love Cal. I know it's a tough school, if for no other reason than simply by its size - and I've taken some classes with students, so I've seen the requirements first-hand. Cal graduates rock.
At least with Stanford med school matriculation, you could look at "who has the axe" this year... heh heh heh (and I believe the BEARS do!!!!).
Seriously though, if you get an A at Berkeley, you've gotten an A anywhere. There's no question about it, and I'm sure adcoms know this fact. GO BEARS!
chandelantern said:
The deal is this... Cal students take:
1 semester of general chem
+
2 semesters of o chem
+
1 semester of biochem
The first semester of o chem actually counts for the second semester of general chem and the semester of biochem counts for the second semester of o chem...
I know it is confusing but that's how we roll at Cal.
Dr.MD said:
Thanks for clarifying. That's still weird though (although it might def be like that at other schools, i don't know.) At UC Davis we have to follow the regular rules:
1 year (3 quarters) g-chem
1 year (3 quarters) o-chem
1 quarter biochem (although many people take 2 anyway)
so if i didn't know any better and I was on an adcom (the adcoms probably all know better of course) i would look at the app and be like, "they don't fulfill all the course requirements." so that's why I originally proposed the question. So do med schools do that for all applicants, even if their school does offer 2 semesters of g-chem? what about if a school only offered 1 sem of ochem? is this all A-OK with med schools?
Bah forget it. What's the point in any of this.
Pewl said:
You wish you had the semester system!
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crazy_cavalier said:
There is a point to this nonsense 🙁 ??
From what I have seen and heard from others, I would say that there is some validity to the claim that it is hard to get into selective med schools from UC Berkeley. This is only the case because top med schools usually take most of their students from private universities. Not to mention that UCB has many pre-meds and many asians (ORM) and has a reputation for being full of liberal hippies (I don't think this is true, but I've seen Berkeley, and yes, there are some hippies....it's the panhandlers that get to you.)
Therefore, I'd say that if you can get into a good public school like UCB or UCLA (or any of the UCs for that matter), you should go unless you are offered a good private and you don't mind paying extra.
With that said, could someone compare UCLA and UCB in terms of med school success rate?
Oh and finally, GO BEARS AND BRUINS (potential UC Berk or UCLA student....I got my UCLA acceptance to undergrad yesterday, so I'm happy 🙂 )
Therefore, I'd say that if you can get into a good public school like UCB or UCLA (or any of the UCs for that matter), you should go unless you are offered a good private and you don't mind paying extra.
With that said, could someone compare UCLA and UCB in terms of med school success rate?
Oh and finally, GO BEARS AND BRUINS (potential UC Berk or UCLA student....I got my UCLA acceptance to undergrad yesterday, so I'm happy 🙂 )
Dr. Pepper said:
your statement is incorrect, private schools do not prefer private schools...
if it's any consolation to the uc berkeley premeds out there, once you get into medschool, berkeley kids are held in very high regards throughout most medical schools,
i believe the main reason it's so hard to get in as a berkeley student is (as stated previously in this thread), because there are so many ppl applying from berkeley, a school simply can't fill its class up with one undergrad
i have to agree... for some reason berkeley students do seem underepresented. i graduated from ucsd and interviewed at slu, ucsd, uci, drexel and nymc which ALL traditionally take a lot of UC applicants and i haven't run into a single applicant from berkeley.. it just amazes me. also i have a friend with good stats and amazing activities from berkeley and he still hasn't been accepted into a single school. i have no stats to back my claims but it seems like cal students don't get a fair chance.
MED_04 said:
I probably should elaborate a bit. There is no general advantage to going to a private versus a public school. However, by "good private school" I meant that schools like Johns Hopkins, Duke, ivies etc usually have more people going to top programs. This is the general trend that I've observed from mdapplicants at least, but hell, I could be wrong.
macadamianut said:
Well, I was referring to my friends, some of whom are too rich to qualify for financial help in the application process but still poor enough that they have a hard time getting money for all the flying around, secondary etc fees needed to really boost up an app that isn't super, super steller---so yes, the entire process does favor the wealthy. It's great you qualified for full financial need, but a lot of people dont' make the cut even though money is still tight. Yes, I guess they can suck it up, but that doesn't make the lack of funds go away.
I've been through the process and although I got in, it has been an expensive trip. The end result is that the entering medical school class tends to favor kids from middle and upper middle class, less so on the poorer students.
And actually, I do think asians have a right to complain about the process, just like whites and nonalumni and anyone else who don't have a 'leg up' in the process....because it's difficult to get into med school.
But this thread also had people complain about how difficult it is to get into med school from cali, which I think is justified. I lived in the midwest, and I remember there were a ton of cali refugees that fled here to get residency so they have a shot at the instate school in the midwest because california was full.
It is easier to get into medical school outside of california for the simple reason of less competition. I don't think it's whining to point that out as truth. And it certainly does no one justice for people to just 'suck it up' when there are serious deficiencies in the admissions process. I'm just glad my state residency isn't California, there'd be no way in hell I'd make it in.
QUOTE=Benzo4every1]DORK ALERT 
[/QUOTE]
WOOO we have the same avatar!!!!!!!!! 👍
[/QUOTE]WOOO we have the same avatar!!!!!!!!! 👍
1) Something that I'll add to the discussion is what I've heard as "grade inflation" by some schools (namely private institutions). Does it exist? Probably to some extent, as it is more difficult to get an A in one school over another. In a private school, there seems to be some incentive to make sure their graduates are well-placed - in any field - thus, making it difficult to fail classes...allowing students to repeat classes they failed with no annotation of failure in the transcript...and just giving A's for the hell of it. The more prestigious destinations of their graduates, the better the name of the school sounds, the better prospective students they can recruit, and the more alums will give back to the school. This formula doesn't quite work in the public school system. I figured, what incentive does Berkeley have to inflate the grades of its students or make classes easier? It gets a majority of it's funding from the government and you're one of 20,000 who are paying substantially less than private schools and probably less likely to give back.
2) Having been through both the UC and Ivy league system, I've seen a great disparity in pre-med advising. During my time at Cal, 1996-2000, there was one pre-med adviser Peter Van Houten EdD. He was responsible for advising all the pre-meds from Berkeley. You really had to be assertive in the "rat race" to end up in med school from Berkeley. Ever meet your professor in person? Was it easy getting a letter of rec by someone that knew you by name? In the Ivy League system the career advising is far superior (I guess you get what you pay for) and you'll have counselors with connections and professors that know you by name, because the classes are smaller, the environment less hostile, the administration and staff more efficient and friendly.
I take my hat off to all the berkeley alums trying to make it into med school, it's tough, but it's going to be like that wherever you go. With that said, if you're a good student and work hard, there's nothing that will stop you from getting into medical school, from whatever undergard you're from. 🙂
MCB - UC Berkeley Class of 2000 (the Vedder years)
MD Class of 2006
2) Having been through both the UC and Ivy league system, I've seen a great disparity in pre-med advising. During my time at Cal, 1996-2000, there was one pre-med adviser Peter Van Houten EdD. He was responsible for advising all the pre-meds from Berkeley. You really had to be assertive in the "rat race" to end up in med school from Berkeley. Ever meet your professor in person? Was it easy getting a letter of rec by someone that knew you by name? In the Ivy League system the career advising is far superior (I guess you get what you pay for) and you'll have counselors with connections and professors that know you by name, because the classes are smaller, the environment less hostile, the administration and staff more efficient and friendly.
I take my hat off to all the berkeley alums trying to make it into med school, it's tough, but it's going to be like that wherever you go. With that said, if you're a good student and work hard, there's nothing that will stop you from getting into medical school, from whatever undergard you're from. 🙂
MCB - UC Berkeley Class of 2000 (the Vedder years)
MD Class of 2006
At a public university it is tough to get to know a professor and to stand out. The advantages are: you pay much less $$ to go public. But, UCs and Stanford love UC students. Looking at the matriculation from my East Coast school, there are about <10 matriculants to UC schools (in-state). Also, med schools DO factor in private school prestige. Why??? A lot of applicants including myself did not turn down full rides at their state-university for nothing. It is not uncommon for premeds at private schools to have 100k-200k in debt upon graduation (I know quite a few).
actually, Berkeley is becoming more and more conservative. While the whole stereo type of berkeley being full of gays and crazy liberals exists, I don't really see it.
I actually see the 50% of Asian People here, apathetic about
1) politics, mainly asian am issues.
2) the homelessness issue
3) anything besides their own damn goals and careers. (hence a lot of premeds)
Anyways, yea, people here are very premed and high strung. The whole stereotype of mommy and daddy want me to be a doctor, definitely applies I think.
I am ashamed of being a premed here because there's that stigmata.
Oh well.
I actually see the 50% of Asian People here, apathetic about
1) politics, mainly asian am issues.
2) the homelessness issue
3) anything besides their own damn goals and careers. (hence a lot of premeds)
Anyways, yea, people here are very premed and high strung. The whole stereotype of mommy and daddy want me to be a doctor, definitely applies I think.
I am ashamed of being a premed here because there's that stigmata.
Oh well.
anystream said:
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I went to Cal ('05). There are at least 20 (I would say more like 25-30) of us here at USC-keck in the first year class. We easily have the most students at Keck. From what I've heard from faculty, USC really loves CAL students. In talking to one professor (a Berkeley alum at Keck), he told me that they know a 3.5 from Cal is better than a 3.8 from an IVY leauge.
I think the same thing applies to the UC's. I was always fearful after looking at the career centers stats online but those numbers are way way off. If I'm correct, I think they are the numbers of the people who actually elected to disclose their info/stats to the career center.
I think the same thing applies to the UC's. I was always fearful after looking at the career centers stats online but those numbers are way way off. If I'm correct, I think they are the numbers of the people who actually elected to disclose their info/stats to the career center.
Depends on your public university. UCSC, my alma mater, had nice small classes with first name basis professors. Granted, It's the un-UC.Mixtli said:
Private school prestige? No such thing. Prestige comes from GOOD private schools. There are a huge number out there, most of which are not the slightest bit prestigious. I'd say Cal is higher held than all but 10-20 (tops) of other universities out there. Most of the UCs are not fall behind.Mixtli said:
Private means big tuition. Prestige does not come with the price tag.
lakersfan said:
I would rather have a 3.8 from an Ivy league university than a 3.5 from UC Berkeley. The former means a very good likelihood of getting into places like Yale, Cornell, Hopkins, and UC medical schools, the latter means an ok chance of getting into UC Valhalla.
Private prestige is generally better. I got to a public medical school and very few of my peers are from public schools, even from its own undergraduate school. And there are quite a few Ivy kids here. There's a lot better advising and they take the time out to make you a really nice committee letter which is of great import. The Harvard college committee letters are really something to behold.
I didn't imply that.
To put it very simply:
3.8 Ivy = good anywhere whether it be Yale or UTSW.
3.5 UC Berkeley = not so good at any institution whether it be USC or Meharry.
To put it very simply:
3.8 Ivy = good anywhere whether it be Yale or UTSW.
3.5 UC Berkeley = not so good at any institution whether it be USC or Meharry.
lakersfan said:Lol, are you trying to pick a fight or something? You aren't even reading my posts. Did Berkeley reject you or something>
No, I was accepted.
I am not trying to pick a fight. I'm just saying that it would be more beneficial to have an undergrad Ivy 3.8 GPA whether it be Brown or Dartmouth than a 3.5 GPA from any UC school whether it be Berkeley or Riverside - all other factors being equal.
You can very well get into HMS with a 3.8 Yale GPA.
You very unlikely will get into HMS with a 3.5 GPA from any UC school.
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