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Why is PharmD-PhD not popular???

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by spoons, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. spoons

    spoons Member
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    Quick question about PharmD-PhD program. Most of my friends who are attending pharmacy schools tell me this program is pointless since it takes seven years, and that PharmD is good enough to do research. But way I see it, getting PhD and PharmD in seven years is very good deal, especially since PhD part is financed. I would think all the pharmacy students would tear each other apart to get into program like this..Why is this program not that popular?????
     
  2. stoic

    stoic "Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted"
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    i don't know anyone who is doing bench research with a pharm.d.... maybe clinical. basically the bench researchers have ph.d's, which is a research degree. a pharm.d. IS NOT a research degree. That said, one of the post doc's in the lab where is work is a pharm.d./ph.d., but he didn't do a combined program. first he got his pharm.d., and then decided that he'd rather research so he got is ph.d.
     
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  3. Samoa

    Physician Pharmacist 10+ Year Member

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    The PharmD doesn't really teach you what you need to know to design quality research of any kind, even clinical. Usually, someone with a PharmD has learned about study design on their own. Edit: or through a fellowhip, see below. (No flames, please--I've done the required coursework for both, just not the research for a dissertation.) Plus there's some training that the NIH requires for a grant that is part of a good PhD program, but not the PharmD--even though having a PharmD technically makes you eligible for one.
     
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  4. LVPharm

    LVPharm SDN Moderator
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    Yes, most anyone who engages in bench research in industry has a graduate degree in pharmacology, medicinal chem, or organic chem. There are postgraduate pharmacy fellowships that would prepare you to become an independent clinical researcher, however:

    Definition:A pharmacy fellowship is a directed, highly individualized, postgraduate program designed to prepare the participant to become an independent researcher.

    Interpretation: Fellowships exist primarily to develop competency in the scientific research process, including conceptualizing, planning, conducting, and reporting research. Under the close direction and instruction of a qualified researcher-preceptor, the participant (the fellow) receives a highly individualized learning experience that utilizes the fellow's research interests and knowledge needs as a focus for his or her education and training. A fellowship graduate should be capable of conducting collaborative research or functioning as a principal investigator. Fellowships are typically offered through colleges of pharmacy, academic health centers, or specialized healthcare institutions. Fellowships are usually offered for predetermined, finite periods of time, often exceeding 12 or even 24 months. Individuals planning research-oriented careers should expect to complete formal education in research design and statistics either before or during a fellowship. A fellowship candidate is expected to possess basic practice skills relevant to the knowledge area of the fellowship. Such skills may be obtained through practice experience or through an appropriate residency and should be maintained during the program.

    (Definitions of pharmacy residencies and fellowships. Amer J Hosp Pharm 1987;44:1142-4.)
     
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  5. gdk420

    gdk420 Senior Member
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    I think a part of it has to do with lifestyle choices. I know many people who went into the pharmD program because it was quick program, u can go to school for four years and not have residency and still make a lot of money. Therefore they told me, getting a PhD wasn't on their mind since it would just be another 3 to 4 years of work and if they wanted to do that, they would of just gone to medical school and slave through 80 hours of residency. Another reason I think because getting into both programs is very difficult. They usually only offer the pharmD/PhD to a very selective few students. Although i feel it is a great way to save money on tuition. Sigh I wish I was smart enough to get into both programs.
     
  6. spoons

    spoons Member
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    thank you for the replies. Very helpful!! But it seems that pharmD and PhD program require only 3.0 and decent score on GRE. This doesn' t like tough hurdle. Or is it next to impossible to ge 3.0 and 1000 on GRE in places like UCSF and USC???
     
  7. gdk420

    gdk420 Senior Member
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    I think that is just the minium requirement. I am sure the people who get accepted are way more qualified than that. Someone just told me that they select very few people into that program. I never pursue it myself since I thought the requirements were much higher than that.
     
  8. Dloi

    Dloi Member
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    hey spoons!
    i am interested in the pharmd.phD program! i actually applied to UOP's dual program...you get both degrees in 5 years. Your first two years are restricted to the pharmD and then in the third year, when the rest of your class is going on rotations, you devote your time to the phD. your fourth year is left for rotations and taking the boards and your final year is devoted to your thesis/dissertation. I think one of the main reasons i got into UOP was because i expressed extreme interest in the program and coincidentally, the professor i interviewed with is actually going through the program so we spent the whole interview talking about the pharmD/phD program and how great it is. i just took my GREs last weekend so i dont know if i will get into the pHD program yet. honestly, my main reason for doing it is just for personal interest and growth because i like bench work and research...i have no clue what i want to do with my pharmD or phD degree, havent figured that part out yet :)

    I think the most important thing, above GREs and grades, that will get you into a phD program is your experience in the field and how much you have done with your research ie. publications. I think if your grades and scores are mediocre but you have spent a significant amount of time dedicated to research and made some worthy contributions, then it will speak more loudly than those other factors especially if your PI writes you a great letter. i think thats also a prime reason why few pharmD students apply to the program. Its hard enough getting those pharmacy volunteer hours, extra-curr. and maintaining grades, let alone spending 20+ hours a week in a lab.

    are you applying to the programs?? i think usc gives you more time to decide if you want to do it whereas UOP, because it is so accelerated, requires students to make up their minds quickly about applying to the phD program. anyone else out there trying to do dual degree programs?
     
  9. spoons

    spoons Member
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    Wow thanks Dloi!!!! Very helpful advice. Well I am still prospective pharmacy student so i guess everything depends on how I perform at pharmacy school.....
     
  10. Suey

    Suey Member
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    What do people usually do after they've obtained their PharmD/PhD? Do they usually just go into research, become a pharmacist at a retail, or a little bit of both?

    Also, I'm interested in learning more about dual degrees program. What happens if you apply for the PharmD/PhD program at a school and not get accepted in that? Do they consider you for only the pharmd program then or do you just flat out get rejected?
     
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  11. Dloi

    Dloi Member
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    Hey suey,
    you need to apply to both programs individually, with separate applications, letters of rec, GRE scores and personal statement. Applying for one program does not give you an edge to get into the other unfortunately and if you get into one and not the other....then you have to pick and choose if you want to do it. since i already got into UOP pharmD i just thought i would give the phD a try and apply for it. pharmD is my first choice and the phD would be a supplement to it. the professor i interviewed with at UOP is in the process of completing her pharnD.phD and plans to do clinical research and teach with her degree. i just see having both degrees as broadening my possible job options and interests.

    hope this helps!

    oh yeah, you also have to maintain your pharmD gpa...i know for usc that you can finish your first year of pharmD before applying and you need to have at least a 3.0 gpa. if you apply to the program and get in BEFORE you begin the pharmD curriculum, then you can still be kicked out of the phD if you dont maintain a 3.0 gpa.
     
  12. Modnar

    Modnar Mmm... workahol
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    *bump*

    What about PharmD/MS programs? Are these worth pursuing?
     
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  13. PharmDPhD

    PharmDPhD New Member

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    Hi everyone. I am a PharmD/PhD student at the University of Tennessee. I just completed my first year. My PhD concentration is in pharmacoeconomics. As far as UT goes, you MUST be accepted to the PharmD program before applying to the PhD program via the College of Pharmacy. We have an integrated program in which the student takes graduate courses along with the pharmacy courses. To make it easier some of the pharmacy courses are waived for graudate courses. I am doing the dual program because I want to go into research but have pharmacy as a background to make myself much more marketable in the job force and to enrich my research interests and skills. I definitely advise anyone thinking about a dual program to think hard. It is a lot of hard work and you there are sacrifices that must be made, but all in all I am enjoying the program.
     
  14. gdk420

    gdk420 Senior Member
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    After my PharmD. I am planning to pursue my PhD in chemistry or pharmacuetics if my grades are still okay by the time I graduate.
     
  15. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 imagine sisyphus happy
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    I'd say it isn't popular for the same reason that after running a marathon it isn't popular to just go on ahead and run an extra 5 miles, but that's just me.
     
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