Why is there still affirmative action for med school?

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OasisFTW

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First off, although I still am not a fan of affirmative action for undergraduate schools, I understand it in the sense that it is much harder for blacks and hispanics to do well academically because they are born into much more difficult environments and hence do not have the same resources as other races. This disadvantage should be taken into account for colleges. However, I thought medical school admissions would not take race into account and it would be strictly based on merit. After applying this cycle, I have realized that this is clearly not the case. The logic behind this is that there are not many black or hispanic physicians, so adcoms not only want to increase the diversity of their class but also mistakenly think that these races will give back to their traditionally underserved communities when they start practicing medicine. That's a nice thought, but seriously, when these people start making great money that they have never had before, I doubt that helping out in the rough inner city hospitals is a top priority and who could blame them? Also, I don't think patients really care what race their doctor is. They aren't going to be thinking, "Oh man, there are so many Indian and white doctors around, I wish there was a black or hispanic one I could go to." Patients want a doctor that is competent, regardless of race. I know I am going to get a lot of **** for this, but I don't think its necessary to give an extra advantage for URM's in the med school admission process when they already have been given for colleges.
 

OasisFTW

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:smuggrin:

bitter much?
No, not bitter, I'm just telling the truth. I am tired of all the bull**** that is the med school admissions process. The truth of the matter is that people want to go into medicine primarily because no other career offers guaranteed 200k minumum salary a year for the rest of your life. simple as that.
 

IndianVercetti

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No, not bitter, I'm just telling the truth. I am tired of all the bull**** that is the med school admissions process. The truth of the matter is that people want to go into medicine primarily because no other career offers guaranteed 200k minumum salary a year for the rest of your life. simple as that.
How did you reach this conclusion from your original post?
 

eldoctor

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first off, although i still am not a fan of affirmative action for undergraduate schools, i understand it in the sense that it is much harder for blacks and hispanics to do well academically because they are born into much more difficult environments and hence do not have the same resources as other races. This disadvantage should be taken into account for colleges. However, i thought medical school admissions would not take race into account and it would be strictly based on merit. After applying this cycle, i have realized that this is clearly not the case. The logic behind this is that there are not many black or hispanic physicians, so adcoms not only want to increase the diversity of their class but also mistakenly think that these races will give back to their traditionally underserved communities when they start practicing medicine. That's a nice thought, but seriously, when these people start making great money that they have never had before, i doubt that helping out in the rough inner city hospitals is a top priority and who could blame them? Also, i don't think patients really care what race their doctor is. They aren't going to be thinking, "oh man, there are so many indian and white doctors around, i wish there was a black or hispanic one i could go to." patients want a doctor that is competent, regardless of race. I know i am going to get a lot of **** for this, but i don't think its necessary to give an extra advantage for urm's in the med school admission process when they already have been given for colleges.
cool story bro
 

OasisFTW

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ya, you know im just chilling here in my birkenstocks with a natty ice in my hand, listening to jack johnson and dave matthews band.
 

LizzyM

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What you think doesn't matter.
 

OasisFTW

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What you think doesn't matter.
ya, but it is the truth, and you know it. you adcoms think that you are a lot more important than you actually are. you guys think you are the special ones that can pick and choose the future leaders of medicine and all that is complete and utter bull****. your criterias and standards for admission are often times random and some other times blatantly unfair, as is the case with affirmative action. that is 100 percent true.
 
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No, not bitter, I'm just telling the truth. I am tired of all the bull**** that is the med school admissions process. The truth of the matter is that people want to go into medicine primarily because no other career offers guaranteed 200k minumum salary a year for the rest of your life. simple as that.
So would you rather have members of your medical school class who want to become physicians for the money or a URM with lower stats who will go on to be a great physician for the right reasons? Not to say that all URMs are in it for the right reason, but it's just something to think about. For every URM with lower stats admitted to medical school, there are an equal number of non-URMs who got accepted due to connections/legacy status. These factors are not in your control. If you are merely venting, that's fine because you are entitled to freedom of speech. The issue is, most non-URMs who complain will never make mention of this again or attempt to create change for future non-URMs once in medical school. You never see this topic arise in the med school forums because with most non-URMs, once they get in, they don't feel the need to complain anymore. I could complain about the fact that after medical school, URMs will have to work much harder to gain the same respectability in the medical field (and practically all professions) as non-URMs. This is the case with or without affirmative action or the promotion of increasing URM physicians. However, I wont complain because that's just how the world works, so I live with it, do everything I can to achieve my goals, and keep it movin.
 

OasisFTW

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So would you rather have members of your medical school class who want to become physicians for the money or a URM with lower stats who will go on to be a great physician for the right reasons? Not to say that all URMs are in it for the right reason, but it's just something to think about. For every URM with lower stats admitted to medical school, there are an equal number of non-URMs who got accepted due to connections/legacy status. These factors are not in your control. If you are merely venting, that's fine because you are entitled to freedom of speech. The issue is, most non-URMs who complain will never make mention of this again or attempt to create change for future non-URMs once in medical school. You never see this topic arise in the med school forums because with most non-URMs, once they get in, they don't feel the need to complain anymore. I could complain about the fact that after medical school, URMs will have to work much harder to gain the same respectability in the medical field (and practically all professions) as non-URMs. This is the case with or without affirmative action or the promotion of increasing URM physicians. However, I wont complain because that's just how the world works, so I live with it, do everything I can to achieve my goals, and keep it movin.

agree with the second half of your statement. point taken.
 

aDreamer

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ya, you know im just chilling here in my birkenstocks with a natty ice in my hand, listening to jack johnson and dave matthews band.
Snapshot of your world. I'm guessing there's a pretty good chance your average, say, inner city minority will feel next to no natural connection with you in the least. And if you think that doesn't affect (for starters) the information they disclouse to you, or how much they trust you (both necessary for quality care), you're sadly mistaking. Is that unfortunate? Yes. Is it the reality? Probably.

Just sayin'
 
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Snapshot of your world. I'm guessing there's a pretty good chance your average, say, inner city minority will feel next to no naturally connection with you in the least. And if you think that doesn't affect (for starters) the information they disclouse to you, or how much they trust you (both necessary for quality care), you're sadly mistaking. Is that unfortunate? Yes. Is it the reality? Probably.

Just sayin'
Ohh, I miss Ithaca. You certainly see plenty of birkenstocks and the like there!

Have you gone on any wine tours yet?
 

aDreamer

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Ohh, I miss Ithaca. You certainly see plenty of birkenstocks and the like there!

Have you gone on any wine tours yet?
Haha! Many, MANY more birkenstocks than is natural. This place is another world.

I'm in the class right now but no tour yet...happening senior week though :D
 

dweji16

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Uhm... actually, it does matter to certain patients what race their doctor is.


I'll take Latina women for example. Studies done on reasons Latina women don't seek care adequately has a lot to do with socioeconomic disadvantages, but also with many self-efficacy issues. One of the main reasons many stated was that they don't feel comfortable with their doctor, and are thus afraid to go and get checked up. They often cited that they had a hard to seeking a physician, especially a female physician of their same race, with whom they would feel the most comfortable. So, it does make sense to address these issues. Feeling at ease with your doctor is important, and not being able to do will become a major barrier to getting adequate healthcare.

And no.. i'm not pulling this out of my butt. This is what I studied for the past 2 years...

As a physician, everyone needs to know that the job doesn't begin when the patient is in your office; it starts by getting them there in the first place.
 
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aDreamer

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Uhm... actually, it does matter to certain patients what race their doctor is.


I'll take Latina women for example. Studies done on reasons Latina women don't seek care adequately has a lot to do with socioeconomic disadvantages, but also with many self-efficacy issues. One of the main reasons many stated was that they don't feel comfortable with their doctor, and are thus afraid to go and get checked up. They often cited that they had a hard to seeking a physician, especially a female physician of their same race, with whom they would feel the most comfortable. So, it does make sense to address these issues. Feeling at ease with your doctor is important, and not being able to do with will become a major barrier to getting adequate.

And no.. i'm not pulling this out of my butt. This is what I studied for the past 2 years...

As a physician, everyone needs to know that the job doesn't begin when the patient is in your office; it starts by getting them there in the first place.
Well said. Second this.
 

LuciusVorenus

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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
 
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Uhm... actually, it does matter to certain patients what race their doctor is.


I'll take Latina women for example. Studies done on reasons Latina women don't seek care adequately has a lot to do with socioeconomic disadvantages, but also with many self-efficacy issues. One of the main reasons many stated was that they don't feel comfortable with their doctor, and are thus afraid to go and get checked up. They often cited that they had a hard to seeking a physician, especially a female physician of their same race, with whom they would feel the most comfortable. So, it does make sense to address these issues. Feeling at ease with your doctor is important, and not being able to do with will become a major barrier to getting adequate.

And no.. i'm not pulling this out of my butt. This is what I studied for the past 2 years...

As a physician, everyone needs to know that the job doesn't begin when the patient is in your office; it starts by getting them there in the first place.
:thumbup:
 
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I'm in the class right now :D
Oh nice. I took that with Genetics (shoot me, and I know you know what I mean about that school and that class;)) so it was obviously a pretty sweet break on Wednesdays... starting happy hour during class with hundreds of people!

I'm sorry, I know everyone else wanted to talk about this exciting and new topic that the OP brought up. I will let you resume :sleep:
 

whoknows2012

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royalewcheese how could you skip over such an epic quote with no comment?!!!?:eek:
 
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Uhm... actually, it does matter to certain patients what race their doctor is.


I'll take Latina women for example. Studies done on reasons Latina women don't seek care adequately has a lot to do with socioeconomic disadvantages, but also with many self-efficacy issues. One of the main reasons many stated was that they don't feel comfortable with their doctor, and are thus afraid to go and get checked up. They often cited that they had a hard to seeking a physician, especially a female physician of their same race, with whom they would feel the most comfortable. So, it does make sense to address these issues. Feeling at ease with your doctor is important, and not being able to do with will become a major barrier to getting adequate.

And no.. i'm not pulling this out of my butt. This is what I studied for the past 2 years...

As a physician, everyone needs to know that the job doesn't begin when the patient is in your office; it starts by getting them there in the first place.
This is so true. As an African-American, I have encountered plenty of African-Americans who refuse to go to the doctor because they are not comfortable with being treated by a physician of another race. It would be nice if all people were trusting of people of all races, but that's just not reality.
 
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royalewcheese how could you skip over such an epic quote with no comment?!!!?:eek:
I was thinking about how much I miss undergrad (I graduated 3 years ago).

Yes, that is my favorite movie. Well, it's tied with American Beauty, Hook, The Princess Bride, Detroit Rock City, Soul Plane, etc. Haha I assume you get the pattern? I don't



I didn't mean to skip over your comment, but if you like burgers give 'em a try sometime. I can't usually get them myself because my girlfriend's a vegetarian, which pretty much makes me a vegetarian. But I do love the taste of a good burger. Mm-mm-mm. Have you ever tried a Big Kahuna Burger?
 

whoknows2012

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hilarious royalewcheese...one of my favs as well im a HUGE Tarantino fan
 

Janieve

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Did they take your seats, baby?



AWWWWWWW. POOR THING.
 

chman

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Ok, I really hope you're a troll... but just in case you're not I'll go ahead and give my opinion. First of all, you are very wrong to say that patients do not care about the race of their physician. While that may be true in some instances, there are MANY patients who prefer a physician that they can relate to so that they don't have to put up with things like language barriers and cultural differences. I think affirmative action policies for equitable representation in medicine are completely necessary. If 20% of the population is a given race, then we should have close to 20% of our physicians that race as well.

And secondly, whoever said that all URM's were poor/ can't afford computers? That statement is just ridiculous and deserves no further discussion.
 

dweji16

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Can someone explain this quandary to me? I have a feeling all those disagreeing with me are the URMs who were accepted into top-tier med schools, but the question is how did they gain access to a laptop to access this website, cause I know for sure they can't afford one of their own.
I am actually an ORM with a crap GPA who probably has no chance of getting into med school.

But I'm still here biting the bullet, trying to get in... sigh

Don't see how URMs affording a laptop is relevant to this discussion...
 

OasisFTW

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I am actually an ORM with a crap GPA who probably has no chance of getting into med school.

But I'm still here biting the bullet, trying to get in... sigh

Don't see how URMs affording a laptop is relevant to this discussion...
Its not relevent to the discussion, its just a racial joke that is typical of the humor I enjoy, but clearly most premeds don't share my good taste.
 
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