Why isn't trauma surgery more popular?

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DrDude

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Pardon my ignorance, but...

From what I gather the attending trauma surgeons at my hospital work in shifts (12 hours) similar to the shift schedules of ER docs and internal med hospitalists. This seems like a decent enough schedule as far as surgeons go. Also from what I've been told any surgeon who completes the standard 5-year general surgery residency can work as a trauma surgeon without necessarily doing a trauma/CC fellowship (although the premier trauma centers usually require fellowship training).

So there must be a reason(s) as to why trauma surgery is one of the least popular career choices. Anyone care to share what they may be?

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I don't know, but I'm glad it isn't.😎 Hope it stays that way.

I suspect it has something to do with reimbursement and general nature of the job.
 
Some reasons...
open abdomens, increased exposure to malpractice attorneys, increased exposure to Blood borne pathogens, pay (realative to what yo do), and the amount of non-operative trauma.

I think most will agree it is frustrating to spend an hours in the ER completing work-ups on trauma patients that never go to the OR and stay in the hospital for a week undergoing PT. I did 8 trauma laps the entire month of July as the PGY5 on the trauma service, which is horribly low. I think people would become interested in trauma if they didn't have to worry about all of the non-op traumas, social issues, and babysitting patient's while other services (uro, ent, ortho) operate on their pateints.

I see the answer to enticing people to go into trauma is for hospitals to hire hospitalists that take care of all the non-op trauma pateints, and put the word "surgeon" back to the front of the responsibilities for trauma surgeons. The ER referrs to us as the "trauma service" not the "trauma surgery service." The #1 issue keeping me from going into trauma is managing patients with no clear indication for an operation and rounding for hours on non-op patients.
 
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Is trauma truly going towards shift work? Cuz I don't see any of this happening!
 
At our busy-as-hell county hospital, the trauma surgeons also have their regular general surgery services, in order to keep busy. I haven't seen any surgeons that do trauma surgery exclusively.
 
crappy hours
being the "quarterback", i.e., getting dumped on by ortho and the ED
stupid people doing stupid **** to themselves or others
 
just to echo what's been said, for a lot of people it's the idea that you're almost a medicine doc half the time. no fun babysitting other people's patients. Plus as imaging and medical management improves less trauma surgery happens. For example, it's my understanding that they use to take out far more spleens than they do now cause CT can help you watch the spleen lacs, and there's evidence to support sitting on them.

It might be different at large city hospitals with lots of knife and gun clubs type of action.
 
As a medical student who has rotated through a few trauma centers, I think that the main reason for the low popularity of trauma is lifestyle. Remember that the 80 hour rule only applies to residents 🙂.
 
Trauma can be very depressing for a surgeon.

Imagine being a chief resident on top of the world, able to operate, etc... then just taking a year off- essentially being an ICU jockey with little operating during your fellowship year.

Then it only gets worse- your job as a trauma surgeon: minimal operating.
The most important time to learn surgery: when you first get out and are accountable as an attending instead of being shielded as a resident and all you get to do is play ICU doctor.

babysitting neurosurgery, and ortho patients plus anything else the ER guys dump into your lap. Most places the trauma service is the service of last resort.

In some ways the trauma guys are becoming like ER guys. 12hr "shifts", coordinating other specialists to take care of pts, etc...


That being said-- there is nothing better than a legit trauma case. where it is the surgeon vs big bleeding, etc.. I guess those cases that happen once in a blue moon are enough to keep your morale up for all of the BS you have to deal with otherwise
 
Trauma should become shift surgery.. but there is still a resistance to that. Probably because you can't separate what is "trauma" scope that is not "general surgery" scope. Should change in the future as we start seeing more fellowship defined surgical specialties. First integrated vascular, now the infamous plastic.... who knows what's next. It's kinda walking the same path as internal medicine with its fellowships. Will general surgery become a 3 year or 4 year residency with the expectation that you will do a 2-3 year fellowship? Who knows, but it certainly is more money efficient (less medicare gotta pay for chief year 5 of a general surgeron when he/she wants to go vascular/plastic/trauma/burn/transplant/colorectal etc etc etc.
 
There is a greater trend now to manage trauma patients conservatively, so you only really operate when **** hits the fan. The trend may result in surgeons becoming de-skilled (hence why some trauma surgeons keep a general surgical commitment). Also, there’s nothing worse than having to deal with an emergency trauma case an hour before the scheduled end of your shift!
 
It's true, trauma is the dumping ground of the surgical specialties. They are the IM hospitalists of surgery.
If ortho can't come up with a legit reason to put someone on the med service (afib, well controlled dm, etc) 8 times out of 10, they'll be on trauma.
Ground level fall? Level I baby! Helo them in and mobilize the OR!
Chronic vegetable from a Subarachnoid hemorrhage that caused a patient to fall? That MUST be from the fall! Turn on the sirens!
Hell, I've had patients who have broke their arm from the kneeling position in the trauma bay!
Pregnant lady who witnessed a car crash now with a leg cramp? The medics crap their pants with that so that gets air evac'd with the rest of the criticals!
Nothing like rounding on patients who's main goal of recovering is to be able to "pop a cap in that !@#$# who shot me" or getting served with a lawsuit by an undocumented immigrant whom you saved the life of and stayed in the hospital for 3 months without paying a dime but goes home and has a wound infection.
And who doesn't like rounding early in the morning to that refreshing smell of sweat, blood, B.O., alcohol and regurgitated taco bell in each room? it's like a fresh breath of sunshine everytime!
And oh the mental masturbation that goes into writing my progress notes. I have to decide everyday about whether to write "A/P per ortho" or "A/P per neurosurg" or "A/P cont PT". Decisions, decisions....

The only saving grace of trauma is the great reimbursements for us. Most of the patients are on Medicaid or some other form of govt subsidy that as you all well know, is responsible for the vast surge on doctor's salaries in the past decade that made our morale so high.
But nothing warms your heart like the blank look in a patient's face when you ask "what kind of insurance do you have?" and they say "what insurance?" or "no habla ingles"

There is talk right now of accredited Trauma fellowships coming about in the next few years. My PD always talks about it and how he wants one at our institution. This will be different than the non accredited Trauma/CC fellowships that exist right now. I don't know how it would be different other than getting a CAQ in "Trauma." My only guess would be they get a dual CAQ in Trauma and a MSW (masters degree in social work) to make them a true trauma jockey 🙂

I can think of a few instances that would make a happy trauma surgeon
1) you got the hots for a trauma nurse
2) you are a female surgeon (or gay male surgeon) and really dig firemen in uniforms
3) you didn't have the step I score to get that coveted internal medicine residency/pulm fellowship but wanted to do a specialty where you round in the ICU all day and never operate. Actually, pulm fellowships are pretty competitive, right up there with the likes of endocrine and rheum fellowships!
 
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Daria to Butthead: "Is there anything that you like Butthead?"
Butthead to Daria: "I like things that don't suck."
Daria to Butthead: "Isn't that circular reasoning Butthead?"

Why don't people like trauma? Because people like things that don't suck.
 
One of our fellows kept a digital camera full of photos of 1:1 sitters, security guards and cops supposedly "watching" the patients - but these were all photos of them sleeping on the job!
 
Okay okay, so trauma surgery isn't popular.

But how can anyone deny that watching combat surgeons on the front line in those Vietnam movies and/or MASH isn't f-ing cool as hell?

What about the medic in Saving Private Ryan - ok fine he wasn't a surgeon but that was also f-ing cool as hell, I hate to admit it but when I saw that movie years ago, I was like...f- engineering, I'm going into medicine!
 
Okay okay, so trauma surgery isn't popular.

But how can anyone deny that watching combat surgeons on the front line in those Vietnam movies and/or MASH isn't f-ing cool as hell?

What about the medic in Saving Private Ryan - ok fine he wasn't a surgeon but that was also f-ing cool as hell, I hate to admit it but when I saw that movie years ago, I was like...f- engineering, I'm going into medicine!


Movies can romantacize anything for the naive. Sure trauma surgery can be exciting when you're still in your "surgery is oh so cool" phase. But it ain't no hollywood. In reality you'll be up at 2 a.m. patching up low lives so they can get back at the "two dudes" who stabbed them when they "was just standing on the corner minding their own business". Ask most seasoned surgeons and they'll tell you it gets downright irritating. Which is one reason trauma surgery is one of the least popular surgical careers.

When you get older and wiser you wanna come to the hospital, do your planned cases, and go home to some martinis at your mansion in a gated community far from the riff raff. Not still sleeping at the hospital waiting to get paged to operate on the homies.
 
In reality you'll be up at 2 a.m. patching up low lives so they can get back at the "two dudes" who stabbed them when they "was just standing on the corner minding their own business".


Ahhhhh, yes....the "two dudes" phenomenon.

Trauma surgery has its own "rule of 2's" separate from Meckel's Diverticulum. A frequent part of this rule is the "two dudes" assault. Of course, the most frequent is "two beers."
 
In reality you'll be up at 2 a.m. patching up low lives so they can get back at the "two dudes" who stabbed them when they "was just standing on the corner minding their own business". Ask most seasoned surgeons and they'll tell you it gets downright irritating. Which is one reason trauma surgery is one of the least popular surgical careers.

:laugh: Oh, so true, so true.

This is probably one of your best posts. 👍
 
Ahhhhh, yes....the "two dudes" phenomenon.

Trauma surgery has its own "rule of 2's" separate from Meckel's Diverticulum. A frequent part of this rule is the "two dudes" assault. Of course, the most frequent is "two beers."

haha don't forget the classic "rule of 2"

if the patient says "f#$K you" 2 times, they get intubated
hell, sometimes if they just say it once.

oh if only hospitals were just like what you saw in the movies and on TV. Every night, I would be ex-lapping someone in the ER after the ER resident put him on ECMO in the trauma bay and would be coding someone in the next bed who would miraculously come back after a few chest compressions and thanking me that I saved his life 10 mins after he had CPR done. Oh and don't forget the endless sex with the hot residents and nurses that are omnipresent in whatitsnamefictional hospital.

I swear, if you can find me a residency program where my senior residents/attendings could look like the women on grey's anatomy, then everyone would be doing medicine.
 
Things are changing in trauma surgery. I just matched into a fellowship and have been looking a lot at the field. The new trend acknowledges the problems mentioned above. True, trauma will always involve some babysitting. However, the field has responded to people wanting to operate more. The new trend is the new "acute care surgery" model. This does NOT means that you do neurosurgery or orthopedics as had previously been proposed, but that you cover trauma operative or non AND ALSO emergency general surgery. Many new job offerings want surgeons who will cover all the above on call-with a new emergency general surgery service being run by the trauma team. In practice this means that all things that have to go to the or at night will be fair game for the trauma team. If you like to operate then now trauma will have their share. When people lament the death of true general surgery they should realize that this is where it will be in the future-covering whatever emergently happens in the chest/abdomen/neck and maybe even some things vascular along with their associated ICU care. This makes sense to have these patients cared for someone used to sick people rather than having a surgeon with say a busy oncologic practice coming in the middle of the night to care for things outside of their usual routine.
 
True to the above, however will that change anything in terms of the life of a trauma surgeon?

They had talks about that making the trauma surgeon like a surgicalist but I'm not sure that will be the case.
 
I"m not sure that having the trauma surgeon covering emergency general surgery call is some new idea. As a matter of fact, at most hospitals, even some Level 1 trauma centers, this is the norm and has been for years. The friends I have doing trauma/critical care split their time between trauma coverage, ICU and ER.

What is different is the training in BASIC Ortho and Neurosurg procedures (please see the EAST and ACS discussions on these) and hospitals paying people for ER coverage rather than expecting it as part of your employ. The latter is still unconventional, but several ACS committees are working on trying to make this standard. Some hospitals have dedicated emergency surgery services.
 
Things are changing in trauma surgery. I just matched into a fellowship and have been looking a lot at the field. The new trend acknowledges the problems mentioned above. True, trauma will always involve some babysitting. However, the field has responded to people wanting to operate more. The new trend is the new "acute care surgery" model.

LOL, "acute care surgery". They give trauma surgery a new euphemism and people get all excited and think it's gonna change it from what it currently is.

You might as well argue that calling it "Acute Coronary Syndrome" changed the myocardial infarction.
 
LOL, "acute care surgery". They give trauma surgery a new euphemism and people get all excited and think it's gonna change it from what it currently is.

You might as well argue that calling it "Acute Coronary Syndrome" changed the myocardial infarction.

Hahah or that giving you an "MD" made you someone people had to tolerate.
 
And oh the mental masturbation that goes into writing my progress notes. I have to decide everyday about whether to write "A/P per ortho" or "A/P per neurosurg" or "A/P cont PT". Decisions, decisions...

haha so true
 
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