Why Make 150k When 450k Is Out There?

[NewmansOwn]

it is sickening, and sad at the very same time, this guy Jetpropilot went to his own board and wanted attention there, stating that FM had actually bashed him. Did they not read the title of this thread? Why choose a lower paying career in Medicine than another one?
I think that its truly a disappointment, the maturity level of such characters, as well as integrity as a physician.
Thank God that he is not in Primary Care. That is the greatest relief to civilization actually.
I just thank goodness, that there is not a Surgeon each and every living day, who is directly responsible for whether or not I am even making a living.
The specialists, who can probably do their own Anesthesia on their own patients.
Going to the hospital at 5 am every day, getting scutted out hardcore by Surgeons and Specialists.

Dude you have GOT to chill out. You're embarrassing youself and are a liability to every single other person on this forum who isn't ignorant and who can conduct his or herself with poise, dignity and intellect. You're going to give FPs a bad name at a time when they really don't need it.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[andwhat]

NewmansOwn
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 287

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheruku
Hi, my name is Sree Cheruku. I want to thank all my fans for your support in

HAHAHA OH MY GOD -- HE'S BACK!!! And he's using a 'copyrighted' picture, just like he got mad at us for! HI SAUL!!!!!! Where's Juliet?? I need my Juliet to see this! Rally the Stewie U hopefuls!!

dude you are nuts, look at your ridiculous posts. Stop randomly attacking people, I can post more if you want. Stop pointing fingers when you are the biggest lunatic. Stop harrassing other people, and mind your buzinesssssss

 

[NewmansOwn]

NewmansOwn
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 287

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheruku
Hi, my name is Sree Cheruku. I want to thank all my fans for your support in

HAHAHA OH MY GOD -- HE'S BACK!!! And he's using a 'copyrighted' picture, just like he got mad at us for! HI SAUL!!!!!! Where's Juliet?? I need my Juliet to see this! Rally the Stewie U hopefuls!!

dude you are nuts, look at your ridiculous posts. Stop randomly attacking people, I can post more if you want. Stop pointing fingers when you are the biggest lunatic. Stop harrassing other people, and mind your buzinesssssss

You're creepy -- can you post pictures of me showering, too? I don't think you're a lunatic -- I just think you're being ignorant. Call me a dreamer, but I just think this site would be a better place for everyone if posters educated themselves and stuck to facts, rather than vicious demagogy and other such reprehensible pap. I guess I shouldn't have bothered though -- I just can't stand to see people like you in an educational forum. I've been touchy about it ever since this country elected one of your brethren to the presidency. And believe me, I don't support Jet starting this thread in such a manner, either.

Surgeons can't administer anesthesia themselves. Furthermore, they can't monitor the dozens of things an anesthesiologist must while the patient is under, nor do they have the training or expertise to handle a difficult airway, a pharmacological intervention or countless other scenarios. To think they can is just plain stupid -- that's a fact you can take to the bank.

I apologize to the moderators for derailing this thread; it's not my job to marshall fools. It's yours -- and I sympathize.

But andwhat, you should read the thread that thread you quoted from above -- it's an absolute classic.

 

[Ypo.]

Why do I feel like I'm in preallo?

 

[NewmansOwn]

C'mon, folks...Jet has backed off. Maybe we should, too. Just a suggestion.




<--- The Blue Dog is not the moderator.

Well obviously. Only blue bears can be moderators, Kent.

 

[NewmansOwn]

Why do I feel like I'm in preallo?

Haha fair enough, brother. Just to keep things fun, let's start an "I heard D.O.s eat babies and intentionally warm the globe" thread, or an "I have a 43 MCAT, 4.0, served two terms in the Senate and cured Japanese enchephalitis when I was 13 -- what are my chances???" thread.

 

[jetproppilot]

it is sickening, and sad at the very same time, this guy Jetpropilot went to his own board and wanted attention there, stating that FM had actually bashed him. Did they not read the title of this thread? Why choose a lower paying career in Medicine than another one?
I think that its truly a disappointment, the maturity level of such characters, as well as integrity as a physician.
Thank God that he is not in Primary Care. That is the greatest relief to civilization actually.
I just thank goodness, that there is not a Surgeon each and every living day, who is directly responsible for whether or not I am even making a living.
The specialists, who can probably do their own Anesthesia on their own patients.
Going to the hospital at 5 am every day, getting scutted out hardcore by Surgeons and Specialists.

Your post is obviously an angry one.

Sorry you've chosen to trash a medical specialty. I certainly didnt trash yours. Yes, I think a primary care's salary doesnt reflect the years of school endured, and posted for med students reading this the reality of how a 200K loan from Sallie Mae hits you in the face July 1st after your residency completion.

Your post certainly doesnt reflect the reality of surgery in this country, and how an operating room works. But thats OK. You are eliciting ignorance more than anything else.

What percentage of medical students do you think are influenced in their specialty choice by their debt load? How do the match statistics reflect your opinion?

Like it or not, heated or not, I'm entitled to my opinion. And my opinion is everything isnt as rosey as many people have posted, monetarily speaking.

My opinion is also that med students deserve to hear more than one viewpoint.

Even if it pisses some people off.

>5000 views......hmmmmm.......certainly appears that this is an important subject.

 

[deleted87716]

What percentage of medical students do you think are influenced in their specialty choice by their debt load?

Some, but not as much as you suggest.

An interesting article on the subject:

Is Medical Student Choice of a Primary Care Residency Influenced by Debt?
Marc J. Kahn, MD; Ronald J. Markert, PhD; Fred A. Lopez, MD; Steven Specter, PhD; Howard Randall, PhD (deceased); N. Kevin Krane, MD
Medscape General Medicine. 2006;8(4):18.

Full text here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/545605_1

Abstract:

Context: The average medical student accumulates more than $120,000 in debt upon graduation.

Objective: The purpose of this study was to investigate whether medical student debt affects residency choice.

Design: This was a cross-sectional research study.

Setting: This study was a 5-year analysis of student debt and residency choice for 2001-2005 graduates from 3 US medical schools (n = 2022): Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans, Louisiana; University of South Florida College of Medicine, Tampa, Florida; and Louisiana State University School of Medicine in New Orleans.

Main outcome measures: Individual student data were collected from offices of financial aid for debt prior to and during medical school to determine total debt at graduation. Total debt (adjusted for inflation) was compared with residency match results coded according to specialties listed in the Graduate Medical Education Directory 2005-2006. Graduates were coded into either primary care (PC) or nonprimary care (NPC) specialty categories. Logistic regression for the choice of a PC residency was used with 4 predictors: (1) total debt, (2) medical school, (3) year of graduation, and (4) number of years of training required for a residency program.

Results: Mean total debt for the study population was $89,807 (SD = 54,925). Graduates entering PC did not have significantly less total debt than those entering NPC ($87,206 vs $91,430; P = .09). Further, total debt was not a predictor of a PC residency after adjusting for medical school, year of graduation, and years of training in residency (P = .64).

Conclusion: There is no association between PC residency choice and debt. We conclude that medical students make residency decisions on the basis of a complex set of factors.

 

[iatrosB]

Why do I feel like I'm in preallo?

 

[iatrosB]

>5000 views......hmmmmm.......certainly appears that this is an important subject.

Agreed.

 

[iatrosB]

Agreed.

That also might be a record for the FM forum

 

[iatrosB]

Best of luck to you Jet...sorry you AND your specialty got so many personal attacks. It's a legitimate topic, if not a hot-button one.

 

[jetproppilot]

Why do I feel like I'm in preallo?

Maybe because there is a paucity of conversations like this in medical school. Its a taboo subject to alotta people.

 

[Ypo.]

Maybe because there is a paucity of conversations like this in medical school. Its a taboo subject to alotta people.

Noooo...

You think this conversation doesn't happen nearly every day of my third year? People obsess about money when they are in $200,000 of debt.

 

[deleted87716]

Maybe because there is a paucity of conversations like this in medical school. Its a taboo subject to alotta people.

Not on SDN. I found all of these threads on the first two pages of the archive (search string "debt"):

Is it possible to make over $200K in FM?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=496920&highlight=debt

how can a family doc make it anymore? (nearly 16,000 views)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=79891&highlight=debt

overcoming debt
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=122585&highlight=debt

Salary (nearly 15,000 views)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=336838&highlight=debt

Decline of Family Medicine
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=342030&highlight=debt

FP - the underclass of medicine?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=301283&highlight=debt

income potential
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=253603&highlight=debt

debt for FP doctors
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=244848&highlight=debt

Starting salaries for FP's
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=229153&highlight=debt

future salary for fp
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=206052&highlight=debt

How long will it take to pay off my debt?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=108343&highlight=debt

I'd hardly say the subject is "taboo."

 

[Ypo.]

Not on SDN. I found all of these threads on the first two pages of the archive (search string "debt"):


I'd hardly say the subject is "taboo."

Wow. Now that's what I call "evidence-based."

 

[jetproppilot]

Noooo...

You think this conversation doesn't happen nearly every day of my third year? People obsess about money when they are in $200,000 of debt.

Noooooooooo.....

I'm not talking about med student banter...

I'm referring to formal education talks from attendings and whatever economic
professionals a med school has to offer....to have pragmatic conversations to med students....especially the very-debt-laden ones.

I challenge you to provide evidence that this is a standard part of one's medical school education.

Why is that?

Why is economic education ignored by medical schools?

I'm posting a pragmatic viewpoint.

Like it or hate it, you read it.

Pissed off?

Thats OK.

Its more than you'll hear from your med school.

Just keep signing those student loan checks and the med school is happy.

 

[Ypo.]

Noooooooooo.....

I'm not talking about med student banter...

I get it mostly from residents and attendings. It's very annoying.

I'm referring to formal education talks from attendings and whatever economic
professionals a med school has to offer....to have pragmatic conversations to med students....especially the very-debt-laden ones.

What do you want, an MBA as well? I think 4 years of medical school and 3 years of residency is long enough for me. How much talk about this do you really need anyway? Most of us can add. It's not our school's responsibility to take charge of our personal financial planning.

If you wanted to have a discussion about economics you might have been better off posting in the general forum. FP is not the only specialty in this salary range.

Like it or hate it, you read it.

I read it because flame wars are ENTERTAINING. I wish I could say I learned something.

 

[jetproppilot]

Not on SDN. I found all of these threads on the first two pages of the archive (search string "debt"):

Is it possible to make over $200K in FM?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=496920&highlight=debt

how can a family doc make it anymore? (nearly 16,000 views)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=79891&highlight=debt

overcoming debt
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=122585&highlight=debt

Salary (nearly 15,000 views)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=336838&highlight=debt

Decline of Family Medicine
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=342030&highlight=debt

FP - the underclass of medicine?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=301283&highlight=debt

income potential
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=253603&highlight=debt

debt for FP doctors
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=244848&highlight=debt

Starting salaries for FP's
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=229153&highlight=debt

future salary for fp
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=206052&highlight=debt

How long will it take to pay off my debt?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=108343&highlight=debt

I'd hardly say the subject is "taboo."

Uhhhhhhh, not referring to SDN.

Referring to med school's education concerning economics.

Are you implying, Kent, that med students have a realistic feel of what it takes monetarily to buy a home, raise a family, and....oh....yeah....that nagging 200K note I took out eons ago?

Do you think they are well informed about life after residency?

I don't.

 

[jetproppilot]

It's not our school's responsibility to take charge of our personal financial planning.
:

With the paucity of primary care physicians and the increasing student loan debt, its my opinion that it is.

The fact that you find it "annoying" reflects your idealism.

 

[andwhat]

You're creepy -- can you post pictures of me showering, too? I don't think you're a lunatic -- I just think you're being ignorant. Call me a dreamer, but I just think this site would be a better place for everyone if posters educated themselves and stuck to facts, rather than vicious demagogy and other such reprehensible pap. I guess I shouldn't have bothered though -- I just can't stand to see people like you in an educational forum. I've been touchy about it ever since this country elected one of your brethren to the presidency. And believe me, I don't support Jet starting this thread in such a manner, either.

Surgeons can't administer anesthesia themselves. Furthermore, they can't monitor the dozens of things an anesthesiologist must while the patient is under, nor do they have the training or expertise to handle a difficult airway, a pharmacological intervention or countless other scenarios. To think they can is just plain stupid -- that's a fact you can take to the bank.

I apologize to the moderators for derailing this thread; it's not my job to marshall fools. It's yours -- and I sympathize.

But andwhat, you should read the thread that thread you quoted from above -- it's an absolute classic.

""NewmansOwn's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 290
Almost without exception, MDs are respected far more than DOs -- many people see DOs as wannabe MDs who couldn't hack it,
go to the MD school. 2 years isn't a long time, and I know, personally, I would never cripple my career (especially as a budding researcher) by going to a DO school over an MD school. Think about if you guys break up in a year or two -- holy **** that would suck. You'll spend the rest of your life bitter about not getting an arguably superior education and degree.

Anyway, good luck!""


you spend all of your free time instigating fights. I question the acumen of an individual as senseless as yourself.
You truly try your very best to start altercations with everyone, on each and every single forum.
This is an informative, and helpful board. Why don't you help out by leaving it?

 

[Ypo.]

With the paucity of primary care physicians and the increasing student loan debt, its my opinion that it is.

The fact that you find it "annoying" reflects your idealism.

I certainly never said you annoyed me. But I'd rather be ideal than obsessed with money.

Why don't you guys quietly, vigilantly, and safely get out of this forum?

Anyways, like I said; this thread was GREAT for comedic purpose. I don't know why, but this one in particular make me ROFL. Classic.

 

[jetproppilot]

Which begs the same question as to why the OP is in medicine at all. I'm sure a lot of people who ask that question about FM vs. specialties also asked the same question about pursuing a lesser-paying career vs. medicine. And of course their med school interviews were full of absolute BS statements about how they wanted to "help people".

Another personal shot.

Are you implying because I'm a specialist, and because I posted about real-life concerns, that I'm not a good doctor?

Whatever, Dude/Dudette.

My patients and colleagues would beg to differ with you.

You are obviously very early in your training. Reimbursement and providing services-without-reimbursement is talked about every day outside the holy-columns that surround academic medicine.

 

[Ypo.]

Yet another "*** mod." What exactly does an ***-mod do, anyway?

Wow, they are really working double time on censoring outass.

 

[jetproppilot]

I certainly never said you annoyed me. But I'd rather be ideal than obsessed with money.






Anyways, like I said; this thread was GREAT for comedic purpose. I don't know why, but this one in particular make me ROFL. Classic.

Gee, I didnt realize this was a members-forum.

Hmmmm.....you're hearing a viewpoint you don't like and are suggesting I leave.

Do you support apartheid as well?

Whats the difference between you inferring that I leave and apartheid?

 

[Ypo.]

Gee, I didnt realize this was a members-forum.

Hmmmm.....you're hearing a viewpoint you don't like and are suggesting I leave.

Do you support apartheid as well?

Whats the difference between you inferring that I leave and apartheid?

Is this a riddle? I LOVE riddles!!

 

[jetproppilot]

You seem to be continually shifting your argument. Let's see, so far we have (paraphrasing, now):

1) Why do people go into FM when they could go into another field that paid better?
2) FM docs deserve more money.
3) Medical schools don't do enough to inform students about personal financial management.

Honestly, it's getting tough to keep up with you. Maybe you need to start a new thread each time you change the subject. That would help.

Honestly, its hard for me to believe that you don't think all of the above are related.

Maybe you should admit the obvious. That the subjects you cogently listed are related.

That would really help.

 

[jetproppilot]

Is this a riddle? I LOVE riddles!!

Wow! How amusing you guys answer questions with questions!

Being alone here, BTW, with my opinions, receiving personal shots along the way, bothers me none.

And I'm not like alotta you who reports posts at the inkling of confrontation (gee, alotta you do that....whats up with that? Don't you think opinions outside your box have merit, even if you don't like them?

Don't understand why you wanna turn this into a flame war, just because you don't like what I post, which is, by the way, the truth... steering our medical students into subspecialties over primary care, whether you wanna admit it or not. Student loan debt is here to stay. And its spiraling higher. And you guys are saying OH, ITS OK! We can deal with the debt! Reimbursement is not an issue!

I beg to differ with you.

Many students, like it or not, don't even consider primary care because of their debt load.

Ignore that fact, and flame me all you wish.

Thats reality.

 

[deleted87716]

When I was in medical school, my student loan advisor showed me a spreadsheet that projected what my debt would be at the end of school, including an estimated monthly payment, based on my anticipated loan requirement. This was before I had borrowed any money.

I knew exactly what I was getting into.

Are you suggesting that this was an exception?

 

[jetproppilot]

When I was in medical school, my student loan advisor showed me a spreadsheet that projected what my debt would be at the end of school, including an estimated monthly payment, based on my projected loan requirement. This was before I had borrowed any money.

I knew exactly what I was getting into.

I find it difficult to believe that I was an exception.

And I find it difficult that you don't think alotta (actually MOST, judging from the primary care shortage) students look at that big number and exclude primary care as a realistic option based on present day salary.

 

[deleted87716]

And I find it difficult that you don't think alotta students look at that big number and exclude primary care as a realistic option based on present day salary.

I have never disputed that money is one factor in determining specialty choice. It is not, however, the factor.

I have backed that opinion up with a reference (see my earlier post), which you have yet to comment on. Two of the three medical schools in the study were in New Orleans, as it happens. Coincidental, but amusing, nonetheless.

 

[jetproppilot]

When I was in medical school, my student loan advisor showed me a spreadsheet that projected what my debt would be at the end of school, including an estimated monthly payment, based on my anticipated loan requirement. This was before I had borrowed any money.

I knew exactly what I was getting into.

Are you suggesting that this was an exception?

Since it seems you are arguing that money doesnt have alot to do with specialty selection, Kent, lets look at, oh, anesthesia for example.

When I emerged from anesthesia residency in 1996, salaries sucked, compared to current day.

What happened over the next several years of sucky salaries?

Med students stopped going into anesthesia.

Hmmmmmmm......coincidence?

Now that salaries are huge, anesthesia is a touted specialty.

Your argument speaks towards the coincidence conclusion.

I beg to differ with you.

 

[deleted87716]

I beg to differ with you.

So, are you arguing that money is one factor, or the factor in specialty selection? That's the only point of contention, as far as I can tell.

 

[jetproppilot]

I have never disputed that money is one factor in determining specialty choice. It is not, however, the factor.

I have backed that opinion up with a reference (see my earlier post), which you have yet to comment on. Two of the three medical schools in the study were in New Orleans, as it happens. Coincidental, but amusing, nonetheless.

Oh, and right back atcha, Dude.

If you'll refer back to my many posts on this thread, its intent was to inform medical students of life's monetary realism after residency.

Not to bash, not to deter.

To inform.

You posted that the financial person from your school provided you with a spread sheet.

As did mine.

I'd be hard pressed to believe they informed you on what impact a 200K note has on an annual salary of 150K, after taxes.

Look, Dude, you've turned this into a chess match, where every post I make is countered.

Reality is money is a big part of everyone's life in this country, and med students continue to sign loan checks that are bigger and bigger.

Money is one of the top conflict-subjects in marriages.

So continue to check my bishop, rook, and knight.

"Check."

"Uhhhh, Check."

But I think you've yet to read my posts without bias.

 

[jetproppilot]

And that's wrong...how?

I disagree with you, "dude!" This is how the game is played!



So, you're claiming to be unbiased? Just checking.

Hmmm.....

If you think I'm biased by stating the obvious, which is that the majority of med students select specialties based on money,

then yes, I'm biased.

So, that brings us back to the OP, doesnt it?

Which means all the pissed-off banter from primary care docs and primary care residents doesnt answer the question, does it?

No matter how hard you try, Kent, you can't answer for a med student with 200K in student loans of todays dollars, knowing what that means, who still selected primary care.

Or maybe, just maybe, said med student hasnt thought about money after residency.

Hence the reason for the post.

Informed decisions are better than idealistic ones, regardless of specialty selection, wouldnt you agree? those winkies that you love are for you, bro.

 

[jetproppilot]

Mmm...not so much. It's tough to find references on the Internet a dozen or so years after the fact, but this is fairly representative: http://www.uam.es/departamentos/medicina/anesnet/journals/ija/vol2n1/articles/letter.htm

FYI, an estimated "quarter of a million dollar" salary in 1996 equals $337,123 in today's dollars (according to the inflation calculator.) That sounds about right.

I hope to have a fraction of your prowess on posting links on this new Mac of mine someday.

Yes, you posted some article on salaries in anesthesia circa 1998.

I can assure you industry standard when I came out wasnt near what it is today.

 

[jetproppilot]

Way to completely evade the question (see post #208). <--- My real favorite emoticon.

I can assure you, Dude, that evading questions is not a specialty of mine. (My true emotion as well)

I think I've stated the answer to your question....uhhhh...the post that said the majority of med students select specialties based on money.....(see post #212)...

dontcha think that answers your question? my favorite emotion too, Doctor.

 

[Ypo.]

Personality Disorders in General

DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for a Personality Disorder:

A. An enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture. This pattern is manifested in two (or more) of the following areas:

1. cognition (ie, ways of perceiving and interpreting self, other people, and events)

2. affectivity (ie, the range, intensity, lability, and appropriateness of emotional response)

3. interpersonal functioning

4. impulse control


B. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations.

C. The enduring pattern leads to clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. The pattern is stable and of long duration and its onset can be traced back at least to adolescence or early adulthood.

E. The enduring pattern is not better accounted for as a manifestation of another mental disorder.

F. The enduring pattern is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (eg, a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (eg, head trauma).

 

[jetproppilot]

Command+C = copy
Command+V = paste

Voila.

So lemme ask a stupid question....

Whats the command button on da Mac? The little apple with the clover button?cuz it doesnt say COMMAND....kinda like I was supposed to intuitively find SAFARI means INTERNET...scuse me..I'm a specialist ya know.....

 

[jetproppilot]

Well, there ya' go. Whaddaya think we're arguing about, anyway?

As I've stated previously, money is one factor...it's not the factor. You're entitled to your opinion, of course.

I'm convinced its a bigger factor than you're willing to admit.

Yes, my opinion. An opinion supported by...match statistics..paucity of primary care docs analagous to the paucity of anesthesiologists in the mid 90s.......geez, I'm having to repeat myself.

OH YEAH, I FORGOT......

"Check, Kent."


HEY! Lets just ignore the ELEPHANT in the room looming like an alcoholic family member, huh?

 

[jetproppilot]

Yep, that's the one. Confusing, I know. To make things worse, some people call it the "Apple key."

Feel free to PM me if you have any Mac questions, by the way. I'm not an accredited expert or anything, but I made the switch three years ago, so I remember what it was like. It's worth it, though.

Thanks. I'll take you up on that. From what I figured out so far though, its frikkin awesome! Just the ease of music and pictures, along with the avoidance of viruses and spam makes me wonder why I didnt switch earlier....

Thanks again.

Now back to the chess match...

 

[jetproppilot]

Now, now...don't be so hard on yourself. The first step is admitting that you have a problem. <-- My second-favorite emoticon.

If you call being able to talk about real life issues regardless of personal assault,

then Yes, Dude, I've got a problem.

I post about reality.

And call people on (whatta great avatar, huh Kent?

 

[jetproppilot]

Personality Disorders in General

DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for a Personality Disorder:

A. An enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture. This pattern is manifested in two (or more) of the following areas:

1. cognition (ie, ways of perceiving and interpreting self, other people, and events)

2. affectivity (ie, the range, intensity, lability, and appropriateness of emotional response)

3. interpersonal functioning

4. impulse control


B. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations.

C. The enduring pattern leads to clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. The pattern is stable and of long duration and its onset can be traced back at least to adolescence or early adulthood.

E. The enduring pattern is not better accounted for as a manifestation of another mental disorder.

F. The enduring pattern is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (eg, a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (eg, head trauma).

the message still stands, personal flames and all.

 

[jetproppilot]

the message still stands, personal flames and all.

Hmmmmm....so Kents been totally flexible, huh?

Remember Ypo ya gotta be unbiased, so apply your flames to your allies as well as your "enemies", huh?

I see how you conveniently forgot that primary goal of scientific process....the removal of bias...

 

[balaguru]

If debt is as important as suggested in the OP, then I don't buy the argument that FM should be ruled out. Let's assume 2 med school grads have 200k in debt, will make on average 45k/yr throughout residency and can defer interest throughout residency to make things simple. One goes into FM and the other into gas. Presumably, both have learned to live off of 37k/yr (that's 45k after tax). At the end of PGY3 the fm guy accepts 150k/yr. After tax this around 114k. Since debt is so important the fm guy continues to live like a resident and uses the residual to pay down debt. At the end of PGY4 the fm guy has around 123k plus some interest in debt. The gas guy still has 200k in debt. At the end of PGY5 the FM guy has around 47k plus some interest in debt and again since debt is so important the gas guy pay's it all down but gets to live off of about 113k for the year. At the end of PGY6 the fm guy pays all his debt off and gets to live off of about 66k. So, in return for living like a resident for 2 maybe 3 years after graduating the FM guy gets to spend the rest of his life doing what he enjoys for a decent salary--not so terrible.

 

[jetproppilot]

Command+C = copy
Command+V = paste

Voila.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks for the visual, Dude.

Ahhh, yes. The "command" key.

 

[jetproppilot]

Is this a riddle? I LOVE riddles!!

Following Kent's lead, great job on evading the question.

 

[jetproppilot]

Actually, I think you're far more "flexible" than I am. (Sing along, everybody.)

Flexible
by Depeche Mode

Fame can have strange effects
Money can have strange effects

I ask myself, is it a sin
To be flexible when the boat comes in
Open the window and out go ideals

Drink can alter you
Girls can have strange effect too

I ask myself, is it a sin
To be flexible when the boat comes in
Open the window and out go ideals

We all know boats don't last
We all know cars are fast

I ask myself, is it a sin
To be flexible when the boat comes in
Open the window and out go ideals

NICE!

When the 250K house note comes in (not materialistic by any opinion, I'd say) along with two 25K car notes (not materialistic by any opinion, I'd say) and you wanna send your two kids to catholic/baptist/non public school which requires tuition, safe to say 5K each kid (not materialistic, I'd say), along with power, gas, cell phones....oh....we won't even include the "extravagants" of this materialistic society.....like taking a vacation with your family.....no, don't talk about that....rolleyes....

and, oh yeah!! remember the 200K Sallie Mae loan too!

Hmmmm.....wonder if the dude at the bank likes Depeche Mode......YEAH!!! Thats a great strategy! Quote a rokkstars lyrics to pay the bills!!!

Kent, you're on to something here, Dude.....

 

[jetproppilot]

"Would-you-like-to-play-a-game?"

You've selected the wrong individual if you enjoy guerilla warfare, Private.

 

[jetproppilot]

If debt is as important as suggested in the OP, then I don't buy the argument that FM should be ruled out. Let's assume 2 med school grads have 200k in debt, will make on average 45k/yr throughout residency and can defer interest throughout residency to make things simple. One goes into FM and the other into gas. Presumably, both have learned to live off of 37k/yr (that's 45k after tax). At the end of PGY3 the fm guy accepts 150k/yr. After tax this around 114k. Since debt is so important the fm guy continues to live like a resident and uses the residual to pay down debt. At the end of PGY4 the fm guy has around 123k plus some interest in debt. The gas guy still has 200k in debt. At the end of PGY5 the FM guy has around 47k plus some interest in debt and again since debt is so important the gas guy pay's it all down but gets to live off of about 113k for the year. At the end of PGY6 the fm guy pays all his debt off and gets to live off of about 66k. So, in return for living like a resident for 2 maybe 3 years after graduating the FM guy gets to spend the rest of his life doing what he enjoys for a decent salary--not so terrible.

Is that what you think most people wanna do? I agree staying meager post-residency is a great economic decision, regardless of specialty. The more you make, though, the sooner you can emerge from the-residency-life.

I guess I'm a medical-society outcast.....posting about how a huge student loan debt affects medical students, and how said debt burden is a huge (geez, Kent, IDK....THE factor? A factor? Whatever....its important and is swaying students from primary care, like it or not...and this needs to change) factor in specialty selection amongst med students...

I'm willing to say the unthinkable, huh Kent? That a med student would be so narcissistic to think about monetary life after residency...and how one's income directly reflects the ability to be comfortable after emerging from more than a decade of sacrifice....