Why Make 150k When 450k Is Out There?

[jetproppilot]

Let's play...

...Global Thermonuclear War.

(Oh, c'mon...I'm not totally dating myself here, am I?)

Absolutely not, Dude.

"Check."

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Ypo.]

Ah yes, I can smell it coming. Now that everyone has lost any scrap of self dignity, the time for closing the thread is here!


And now for the death blow--> JETPROPPILOT; your arguments smack of NAZI GERMANY!!!!!

 

[jetproppilot]

Click here ---> Chirp <--- Click here

OK, I clicked there, dude.

Your Mac prowess is incredible.

 

[jetproppilot]

Ah yes, I can smell it coming. Now that everyone has lost any scrap of self dignity, the time for closing the thread is here!


And now for the death blow--> JETPROPPILOT-your arguments smack of NAZI GERMANY!!!!!

Really!!

Nazi!!

Because I started a post on an inflammatory subject, albeit a real life worry subject,continued to contribute to it, and yielded to an incessant wall of personal flames, and continue to stand by my opinion......


HEY YPO!!!! Ever heard of apartheid? Racism? Whats the difference with your flames toward me, Slim? You've yet to answer that question....coincidence, huh? I've yet to flame primary care. Actually support it. Don't support the reimbursement, though. Don't support our CRNAs making more money than a primary care doc. BUT THATS REALITY. AND IT NEEDS TO CHANGE. Sorry, Slim. This ain't a FEEL GOOD POST. But its a REALITY post. Apparently you arent in touch with reality, huh? Ya think its right that debt-laden primary care docs emerge from residency making less than paraprofessionals? I don't. So I'm posting about it in a forum where I think people will listen......and judging from the views....uhhhhhh, Slimster, I was right.....

 

[jetproppilot]

Ah yes, I can smell it coming. Now that everyone has lost any scrap of self dignity, the time for closing the thread is here!


And now for the death blow--> JETPROPPILOT; your arguments smack of NAZI GERMANY!!!!!

Hmmmmm.....come to think of it, I have no idea where you're coming from.

No expletives, no name calling....

So you're implying, Ypo, if a non-member emerges with an opinion that skews the norm of the population, that Nazi Germany is coming?????

Thats way out in left field.

Maybe you should look in that DSM book of yours for paranoia.

 

[jetproppilot]

Actually, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that YPO was being sarcastic. By jokingly playing the "Nazi" card, she was suggesting that her post would ensure the closure of the thread, which is laughable. Now, if she'd have used this ---> <--- like I do, you'd have known she was joking.

<--- See?

Why would the moderators close a thread like this, anyway? We're practically having a sleepover, here!

WOW!

Members of a group encouraging the closure of a thread that speaks from a viewpoint unlike that of the group......

Hmmmmmm......

And you're calling ME nazi?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

thats inconceivably ironic, dontcha think?

 

[Ypo.]

JPP-it's called Godwin's law. (use that google function Kent was talking about).



(I must be REALLY bored).

I was going to add an afterthought about concrete thinking, but...

 

[jetproppilot]

Geez, dude...chill. Lemme buy you a beer.

All kidding aside, Doctor, read the flames toward me in the last, ohhhhhh, a hundred posts.

Yet I'm still here, not responding in an overly inflammatory nature totally unlike how I respond to trolls in the anesthesia forum....but hey, you guys arent trolls, huh? You are responding to something inflammatory to your being....even though its not meant to be personal, believe me....so I understand....hence the lack of support fire from Jet.......this is an issue, Dudes, ignored or not.

Saint Pauli Girl, draft. Please.

 

[jetproppilot]

JPP-it's called Godwin's law. (use that google function Kent was talking about).



(I must be REALLY bored).

I was going to add an afterthought about concrete thinking, but...

Apparently your block to concrete thinking has steered you away from answering my questions queried toward you, and you continue with flame posts as opposed to answering-questions-posts.

 

[balaguru]

Is that what you think most people wanna do? I agree staying meager post-residency is a great economic decision, regardless of specialty. The more you make, though, the sooner you can emerge from the-residency-life.

Yes, but the point is that these higher paying specialties have training programs that are longer than FM. So you would be living as a resident anyway with the added stress of training; whereas, these FM guys seem to have a pretty decent lifestyle post residency.

 

[jetproppilot]

WOW!!!

6000 + views.

But this is a subject that med students have all figured out, huh Kent?

All med students have the specialty thing figured out, regardless of debt-load, huh?

I dont see many threads here with 6000 views, do you?

 

[jetproppilot]

Yes, but the point is that these higher paying specialties have training programs that are longer than FM. So you would be living as a resident anyway with the added stress of training; whereas, these FM guys seem to have a pretty decent lifestyle post residency.

Solely from an economic standpoint thats a weak argument.

I'll spare you pulling out the legal pad with the numbers on it.

 

[Ypo.]

Axis II: Histrionic traits. "Wow everybody! Look at my thread!!"

 

[jetproppilot]

None from me, you'll note.



Good choice...

Have one in fronna me right now, Dude.

But notta draft.

 

[Ypo.]

Axis I: EtOH dependence.

(can you tell someone is on their psych rotation? )

 

[balaguru]

But its never solely from an economic standpoint. There must be something about gas that you enjoy besides the money. Likewise, the same is true for some with primary care. I was only pointing out that debt should not be given the weight you seem to be giving it.

Solely from an economic standpoint thats a weak argument.

I'll spare you pulling out the legal pad with the numbers on it.

 

[jetproppilot]

Axis II: Histrionic traits. "Wow everybody! Look at my thread!!"

If thats what it takes to post and hope med students read this, then yep. I'm axis II.

So I've admitted to your flame, Slim.

Move on, waste another five minutes of your life working on another useless, personal vendetta towards me and a thread that has merit, regardless of whether you wanna admit it or not.

 

[Ypo.]

You've convinced me to go into surgery just for the pure pleasure of ordering you to put the patient into T-burg.


That, AND ALL THE PILES OF GLORIOUS MONEY I WILL MAKE. *rubs hands gleefully*

 

[jetproppilot]

Axis I: EtOH dependence.

(can you tell someone is on their psych rotation? )

WOW.

Having a cuppla beers at home is now a crime, huh?

Sounds like you need to go into psych and start overdiagnosing ADHD like the current clinicians have!!!

All kidding aside, your personal flames are unbelievable!!!

Who's got the complex here, huh? delve deeper into that DSM book, Slim....you're in there somewhere...

 

[jetproppilot]

But its never solely from an economic standpoint. There must be something about gas that you enjoy besides the money. Likewise, the same is true for some with primary care. I was only pointing out that debt should not be given the weight you seem to be giving it.

The first, REAL post in the last hundred.

You da man (woman).

 

[jetproppilot]

Ah...

...I was about to ask, "blonde or brunette?"

Blonde, unfortunately.

Dark, bubbly beer rules.

 

[Ypo.]

this thread that has merit, regardless of whether you wanna admit it or not.

I'd give it at least 100 merit points.

 

[Ypo.]

I appear to have developed some weird compulsion. I can't stop posting in this thread until it dies.

 

[Ypo.]

Classic.

I'd say that about sums up this thread.

Indeed! May God have mercy on all of our souls!!

 

[jetproppilot]

Classic.

I'd say that about sums up this thread.

Indeed! May God have mercy on all of our souls!!

Kent would lash you for not answering questions queried.

Sounds like you've got delusions of grandeur.....and....hmmmmm......avoidance issues......putting a reality stamp on issues that arent reality....living life from a script instead of reality....WOW!!!...am I smelling codependence here?

What DSM number is that?

Ohhh...please refer to post #251 for a reality check....

 

[Ypo.]

What DSM number is that?

The one that pays the most, of course!

Cha CHING!

 

[jetproppilot]

The one that pays the most, of course!

Cha CHING!

You know, avoidance of issues, and answering questions with questions/flames, accomplishes nothing.

So continue flaming me, my questions, and concerns.

Your posts speak for themselves.

My questions and concerns stand.

 

[Ypo.]

You know, avoidance of issues, and answering questions with questions/flames, accomplishes nothing.

So continue flaming me, my questions, and concerns.

Your posts speak for themselves.

My questions and concerns stand.

I'm not! Geez. Just trying to have a little fun. Your thread is dead, Fred.

 

[jetproppilot]

Nope...

"It smells like...victory!"

Forgive me if I feel sorry for you if you feel like you've "won".

I'm not trying to "win" anything.

I'm delivering a cynical message, albeit a real one.

Med student emerges from training with a huge amount of debt.

No professionals talk pragmatically with them about this at-or-before-third year med school.

Life comes, priorities change after residency.

Student loans lurk.

And you guys would rather flame me than recognize and talk publicly about the problem of spiraling student loans verses low primary care doc salaries.

CHECKMATE.

 

[Ypo.]

I'm not trying to "win" anything...











CHECKMATE.

Tee hee!


Kent-can't you ban me or something? I'm giddy!!

 

[MechE]

Jet, you should post this in the allopathic forum to inform med students (like myself) about financial situations of med school/residency/private practice.



Your thread has garnered so much attention that the New York Times decided to do an article on it.

"The need to pay off medical school debt, which averages $120,000 at public schools and $160,000 at private schools, is cited as a major reason that graduates gravitate to higher-paying specialties and hospitalist jobs.

Primary care doctors typically fall at the bottom of the medical income scale, with average salaries in the range of $160,000 to $175,000 (compared with $410,000 for orthopedic surgeons and $380,000 for radiologists). In rural Massachusetts, where reimbursement rates are relatively low, some physicians are earning as little as $70,000 after 20 years of practice. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/u...per&adxnnlx=1207627604-cSTa8LuVu/2PW7wdS7WVBA

 

[iatrosB]

I can't believe this thread is still open!

 

[iatrosB]

Axis I: EtOH dependence.

(can you tell someone is on their psych rotation? )

I can tell you're on psych from the amount of time you have to post!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Oh for God's sake, this is getting ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I like a good slap fight as much as the next guy - but I think 100+ posts of that gets old fast. This thread is vaguely reminiscent of the kinetic days.

Here's the deal - you know the 2nd (maybe even tied for 1st) biggest factor in specialty determination these days. Lifestyle. That's it. Now, for some people this means money (ROAD and all). For others (myself included) this means having enough free time to actually enjoy life (not OB/surgery). Obviously, this can change on an individual basis should one find a specialty they just love, but c'mon derm has a huge number of applicants compared to available spots and I have a hard time believing that there are that many people who just love the skin.

I'm not discounting those who, like I mentioned, choose specialty entirely on what they love with no thought to lifestyle at all. I just have this nagging suspicion that they are now in the minority.

 

[andwhat]

Anesthesiology is not bad, then again neither are other specialties.

 

[NewmansOwn]

aaaaaaaaaaah yes, let us not forget the other task of the Anesthesiologist, to consume illicit substances, much much higher than any other profession.

Sorry that others don't want to be found obtunded in a parking lot with a needle in their forearm, or drinking like you.

Anesthesiology is a residency that takes forever and ever, and then when you are finished, you are the surgeon's whipping boy for the rest of your life.

Performing scutwork on the surgeon's patients.

Who is going to come in and do that central line in the middle of the night on the Surgeon's patient?
Not the surgeon usually, the Anesthesiologist.

This is the stress that turns to substance abuse check it out

http://www.aapd-saac.org/meetingpapers/2003/hines.pdf

That ain't worth the extra loot at all and whatsoever.

There is help out there Jetproppilot, but it starts with you, you have to admit that you need help.

I don't think that's true anymore. I'm pretty sure crack ****** have passed anesthesiologists as the most drug-consuming profession. I'm not sure though -- you might want to check the latest issue of Journal of the American College of Crack ******, or Annals of Crackwhoredom.

 

[sophiejane]

Ah...Uncle Kent is back.



May this thread continue for many many moons. I am turning a blind eye to whatever indiscretions and personal insults may fly here. This is WAY too much fun!

 

[NewmansOwn]

Posted in the gas forum, in 2004:

Can someone please inform me -- in which month is a good time to apply for Anesthesiology? I am going to send my material into ERAS very soon, and I should have my LORs ready very soon as well. Can someone please inform me which month, or even which part of which month, is a good time to apply to various Anesthesiology programs? I have heard from others that most of the interviews are conducted in November / December. In that case, am I safe to apply in October? Can someone please please help me out with this?
Thanks so much!

hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[andwhat]

Posted in the gas forum, in 2004:



hahahahahahahahahaha

Originally Posted by andwhat
Can someone please inform me -- in which month is a good time to apply for Anesthesiology? I am going to send my material into ERAS very soon, and I should have my LORs ready very soon as well. Can someone please inform me which month, or even which part of which month, is a good time to apply to various Anesthesiology programs? I have heard from others that most of the interviews are conducted in November / December. In that case, am I safe to apply in October? Can someone please please help me out with this?
Thanks so much!


yeah your right absolutely I did apply, interview, and not interested in the future of it. What was that five years ago brilliant scientist. At that time, I was CONSIDERING applying to several different fields. This coming from somebody not even finished with Undergrad. This newman or whatever did not even get accepted into medical school and is around here fighting with everyone.
WOW A POST FROM 2004 WHEN I WAS NOT EVEN DONE WITH MEDICAL SCHOOL YOU ARE TRULY GIFTED!!!!
You do nothing but try and instigate everyone on every forum. What nonsensical behavior, you should be banned.
Thanks for digging that up though, it is an interesting perspective. My roommate talked me into it, he is doing it and likes it. The sheer boredom of it.
I just could not tolerate inconsistencies at times during my elective rotation in medical school after I considered it.
It was cool, alot of procedures at times, but certainly not for a living. It has its own ups and downs, as any other profession.
So now genius I am being scrutinized because just like every other medical student in the country, I was considering several different specialties to apply to?
WOW UNBELIEVABLE YOU HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN ADMITTED TO MEDICAL SCHOOL YET YOU ARE TRYING YOUR LEVEL BEST TO CRITICIZE A SPECIALTY, AND D.O.s also!

you obviously have too much freetime, digging through old posts of mine.
Its like this crazy incessant person is following me around and fantasizing about me..... is there a harassment and possible police investigation that we can do here?

Try getting accepted into medical school first there big guy, then worry about specialties.

You have officially lost every ounce of credibility. Go to school and study harder.

Post Bac means that you did not even get accepted.

 

[NewmansOwn]

Originally Posted by andwhat
Can someone please inform me -- in which month is a good time to apply for Anesthesiology? I am going to send my material into ERAS very soon, and I should have my LORs ready very soon as well. Can someone please inform me which month, or even which part of which month, is a good time to apply to various Anesthesiology programs? I have heard from others that most of the interviews are conducted in November / December. In that case, am I safe to apply in October? Can someone please please help me out with this?
Thanks so much!


yeah your right absolutely I did apply, interview, and not interested in the future of it. What was that five years ago brilliant scientist. At that time, I was CONSIDERING applying to several different fields. This coming from somebody not even finished with Undergrad.
WOW A POST FROM 2004 WHEN I WAS NOT EVEN DONE WITH MEDICAL SCHOOL YOU ARE TRULY GIFTED!!!!
You do nothing but try and instigate everyone on every forum. What nonsense idiotic behavior, you should be banned.
Thanks for digging that up though, it is an interesting perspective. My roommate talked me into it, he is doing it and likes it.
I just could not tolerate inconsistencies at times during my elective rotation in medical school after I considered it.
It was cool, alot of procedures at times, but certainly not for a living. It has its own ups and downs, as any other profession.
So now genius I am being scrutinized because just like every other medical student in the country, I was considering several different specialties to apply to?
WOW UNBELIEVABLE YOU ARE THE SH+T SHERLOCK HOMEBOY IN THE HIZOUSSSSEEEE
freakin ***** ha ha ha ha
you obviously have too much freetime, digging through old posts of mine.
Its like this nutcase is following me around and fantasizing about me..... is there a harassment and possible police investigation that we can do here?
And this coming from a ***** who is not even done with UNDERGRAD???
Try getting accepted into medical school first there big guy, then worry about specialties.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

1) I'm out of undergrad; I work for the NIH.
2) I'll be going to an American medical school -- you wouldn't know what that's like.
3) I am the ****.
4) Did you not pull two posts out of my past?
5) hahahaha you've spent this entire thread bad-mouthing anesthesiology and you were seriously considering it! Classic...
6) I don't know if I'm fantasizing about you -- send me a pic and I'll make the call.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I am turning a blind eye to whatever indiscretions and personal insults may fly here.

This thread has turned into quite the catfight. I haven't seen this much hair-pulling since I had a slumber party for my 4 year old's birthday in December.

I've reviewed some of the reported posts and honestly, people are giving as good as they are getting. That makes it hard for us to mod (for those of you who've been reporting posts) - so please try to leave the personal insults and attacks out of it.

Otherwise, I think we should just leave this thread open so you guys can hash this out but please keep it out of other forums/threads. Carry on!

*hands out nerf bats and rulers*

Ya'll be nice to Sophie. She's the B-O-S-S around these parts and the fate of this thread is up to her.

*hands Sophie a flak jacket and a super-soaker*

 

[bananaface]

Ooh. Put glitter glue in the super soaker. It's hard to huff and puff when you're covered in glitter glue.

 

[Dr Barry Zlatko]

If you were to attend Zlatko School of Medicine, you would potentially be not only completely free of debt, but in the black by the time you finish medical school*.

I should also add that at Zlatko School of Medicine I personally teach a conflict resolution class consisting of small group sessions in which we learn to use the power of persuasion to win arguments. At Zlatko school of med, one of our philosophies is that winning an argument in your own mind is the most important thing, regardless of whether the other person's argument makes sense or not. We teach the following: 1) The louder person usually wins; 2) Ignoring the other person's argument is quite an effective tool of persuasion, and 3) When all else fails, resort to personal attacks involving the size of one's genitalia or the physical resemblance of your opponent to feminine hygeine products.

Zlatko med also has the option of a joint M.D./M.N.A. (Master's of Ninja Arts) for those who prefer to settle their conflicts definitively.

We are still accepting applications!

*All Zlatko students have the option of working off campus during their schooling, and may earn money.

 

[lisichka]

If you were to attend Zlatko School of Medicine, you would potentially be not only completely free of debt, but in the black by the time you finish medical school*.

I should also add that at Zlatko School of Medicine I personally teach a conflict resolution class consisting of small group sessions in which we learn to use the power of persuasion to win arguments. At Zlatko school of med, one of our philosophies is that winning an argument in your own mind is the most important thing, regardless of whether the other person's argument makes sense or not. We teach the following: 1) The louder person usually wins; 2) Ignoring the other person's argument is quite an effective tool of persuasion, and 3) When all else fails, resort to personal attacks involving the size of one's genitalia or the physical resemblance of your opponent to feminine hygeine products.

Zlatko med also has the option of a joint M.D./M.N.A. (Master's of Ninja Arts) for those who prefer to settle their conflicts definitively.

We are still accepting applications!

*All Zlatko students have the option of working off campus during their schooling, and may earn money.

ok. you convinced me. i am going to Zlatko.

 

[andwhat]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

1) I'm out of undergrad; I work for the NIH.
2) I'll be going to an American medical school -- you wouldn't know what that's like.
3) I am the ****.
4) Did you not pull two posts out of my past?
5) hahahaha you've spent this entire thread bad-mouthing anesthesiology and you were seriously considering it! Classic...
6) I don't know if I'm fantasizing about you -- send me a pic and I'll make the call.

you can continue the personal insults, I will not play along with them.

 

[iatrosB]

Ah...Uncle Kent is back.



May this thread continue for many many moons. I am turning a blind eye to whatever indiscretions and personal insults may fly here. This is WAY too much fun!

That's what I thought...keep this alive for nothing else than keeping Kent around

 

[NewmansOwn]

you have not even been admitted to medical school? Yet you are on a SPECIALTY FORUM??? And you have the nerve to talk down D.O.s??? Wow that is incredible.
You have not even come CLOSE to any sort of board examination, such as USMLE, yet you think that you can light up some sort of conversation in a SPECIALTY forum??
Yes I am PERFECTLY happy with my $200K, considering you have not even been admitted to medical school.

Post Bac = Didn't work hard enough in undergrad, or were not smart enough to get in medical school = Lost all credibility in a Medical Specialty forum.
Unreal.

Why give YOU any of my time, when you should be PAYING for it.

Well, I'll respect the wishes of the admins and steer clear of personal attacks -- they're hardly necessary in your case anyway.

I will say that a good way to find out about specialties is by visiting the specialty forums, so I don't see anything wrong with folks coming and going as they please.

Also, to clarify, I think you're thinking of a Special Master's Program (SMP). The term 'postbac' is generally used to refer to a postbaccalaureate premedical program. These are formal courses of study offered to those who did not take any of the medical prerequisites in their undergraduate studies. Far from being not smart enough for medical school, students at the best of these programs (among which my postbac, Bryn Mawr, counts itself) have GPAs above 3.6, high standardized test scores, research experience in a variety of fields and many clinical and otherwise extracurricular achievements. Upon graduating the program, these students enjoy a near 100% acceptance rate to medical school.

Check it out: http://www.brynmawr.edu/postbac/

Again, let's stop shouting at each other -- it's getting old.

 

[sophiejane]

*hands Sophie a flak jacket and a super-soaker*

Can it be a pink camoflage one?

And I have a loud whistle, too. And my super soaker has glitter glue. And I have silly string.

Carry on.

 

[sophiejane]

Your posts speak for themselves.

Yes, and they are HIGHLY entertaining.

Look, this thread has become so circular it has turned into a spiral only fathomable by mathematicians and rocket scientists.

Nothing new has been said in, oh, 4 pages or so. But it's funny, that's why there are 6,000 views.

Asking people to justify their choices in their lives, whether it be career, choice of spouse, sexual orientation, religion, political affiliation, etc...to me, all of that is pretty much on the same level.

We make choices and sacrifices and decisions based on taking the good with the bad, weighing the options, and ultimately--hopefully--choosing what is best for each of us.

To assume that medical students are uniformed is insulting to them. I have just finished reviewing the applications of >80 EXTREMELY well-qualified individuals applying to our program. Each of them has their reasons for choosing family medicine, and I can tell you that only an extremely small minority appeared to do so because of grades or test scores. These people can go anywhere and do anything. They are smart, smart, smart. And they are all going to be great docs with satisfying careers.

Will some have chosen wrong? Of course.

But there will be surgery, gas, pathology, IM, OB etc residents who also chose wrong who will gladly take their open spots (and yes I can give you a name and a face for each of those specialty-hoppers into FM).

 

[Museless]

If the past two pages haven't killed the thread yet, maybe math will:

When the 250K house note comes in (not materialistic by any opinion, I'd say) along with two 25K car notes (not materialistic by any opinion, I'd say) and you wanna send your two kids to catholic/baptist/non public school which requires tuition, safe to say 5K each kid (not materialistic, I'd say), along with power, gas, cell phones....oh....we won't even include the "extravagants" of this materialistic society.....like taking a vacation with your family.....no, don't talk about that....(

a $250K house, I can say from experience, with no money down (as offered to residents at my institution) costs $1900 per month, in a high-tax area, including escrow.

A $25K car, I can say from experience, costs $437/mo, also no money down.

Tuition (or if they're younger, daycare) at $700 per month per kid. Assuming two kids, $1400.

Power: 200/mo

Gas: $50 per fill per week for two cars: $400

Two iPhones per month: $180

Week at a resort for a family of four: $4000, or 333/mo

Total cost of big-ticket items per month: $5287.

An FP who makes 150k gross and nets two-thirds of that makes $8250 a month. They've still got $3k/month left over. And that's before their spouse goes to work. Not too shabby.