Why not DO?

[daniellema13]

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So i was asked at an interview last year if i had considered any DO schools. I hadn't, and the interviewer asked me why. I don't really have any good answer for this other than i just have never really considered DO. And my answer was something to that effect. I'm not sure what kind of reason he was looking for. I had just already spent the past year or so familiarizing myself with Allo schools, i dont really know anything about DO schools. And honestly, i dont know much about DOs. It seems to me the programs are pretty similar, and same for practice.

For those of you who have only considered Allo, why not DO?

 

[DrYoda]

DO schools from my understanding have a bit of a primary care focus, which I'm not really interested in.

To be honest, my primary reason is that they have a seperate application process from allopathic schools. My numbers are competative for allopathic schools, so I don't wanted to be hassled with another seperate headache filled process. If DO schools used the primary app, I may have considered adding a few, but only as a backup due to my perception of a focus on primary care (I haven't looked into it, so the primary care thing could possibly be my ill informed impression).

 

[Retsage]

I love research. Very hard to get into the competitive, research-heavy residencies if you go DO.

 

[linguini]

Even though MDs and DOs are theoretically on the same level and rightfully so, I think it will be a while before DOs are actually held in the same esteem as MDs in the medical community and with patients. Personally I don't want to deal with this issue in an already competitive medical field.

Also, there is less of a focus on research in osteopathic schools. Research is a big part of my life and I hope to pursue it during my medical education and as a physician.

 

[linguini]

I think this also shows that this is a question one should be prepared to answer during interviews. I hadn't really thought about it until you brought it up!

 

[Raryn]

Because I'm pretty sure I can get into MD.

I considered DO, even have an unsubmitted filled out AACOMAS for this year, but I changed my mind.

 

[stixx]

Because I want to eventually work in a country where DOs are still considered a joke. I don't know enough about the osteopathic philosophy to tell if that's a good or bad attitude, but that's the way it is.

 

[HumidBeing]

One reason is that fewer students are familiar with DO programs and philosophy, just as you were.

If you'd like to get a better overview and view the the many previous conversations about the possible advantages and disadvantages of each, do a search on the pre-osteo forum. You'll find tons of info there.

 

[daniellema13]

I love research. Very hard to get into the competitive, research-heavy residencies if you go DO.

Also, there is less of a focus on research in osteopathic schools. Research is a big part of my life and I hope to pursue it during my medical education and as a physician.

Good to know! I also want to incorporate research into my medical education/career. On my pre-maturely conceived list of specialties i'm interested in, rad onc is near the top....i'm guessing it would be much more difficult to match into a rad onc residency from a DO school.

 

[Depakote]

If you're ever confronted with this question in an interview (I actually had it once myself), it's better to hit some objective aspects* of the argument than arguing subjective points. BTW, there are plenty of DOs on faculty at MD schools (I had several M1 lectures given by DOs), there is no reason a DO couldn't be on the admissions committee so tread lightly if confronted with this question.

Objective points you might mention:
-DO students spend more time in class due to the added OMM requirement
-Extra boards if you wish to apply for a MD residency
-Limited international practice rights

 

[LossForWords]

I considered it briefly, but there's only one DO school in the state I'm trying to stay in, and it's in a city I'm not interested in living in.

 

[Decicco]

Less research opportunities, less competitive for residencies, less quality clinical opportunites as a med student. All of these are legitimate reasons you could say during an interview.

 

[RySerr21]

Even though MDs and DOs are theoretically on the same level and rightfully so, I think it will be a while before DOs are actually held in the same esteem as MDs in the medical community and with patients. Personally I don't want to deal with this issue in an already competitive medical field.

Also, there is less of a focus on research in osteopathic schools. Research is a big part of my life and I hope to pursue it during my medical education and as a physician.

dude patients don't know, nor do they care. they just want to see a doctor.

 

[Decicco]

dude patients don't know, nor do they care. they just want to see a doctor.

Maybe in an ER setting. I would say there are a good number of patients who at least know that they are not the same degree. Many confuse DOs with ODs (optometry). In Des Moines, DOs are fairly common (because of DMU), especially in emergency medicine and fam practice. Because of DMU's mixed reputation, more people than you would think take interest in which degree their physicians have.

 

[linguini]

dude patients don't know, nor do they care. they just want to see a doctor.

I wouldn't assume that all patients don't know anything about medical care. Having that kind of attitude with patients might make them feel inferior and uninformed. A good patient (not all patients by any means) does their research.

 

[RySerr21]

Maybe in an ER setting. I would say there are a good number of patients who at least know that they are not the same degree. Many confuse DOs with ODs (optometry). In Des Moines, DOs are fairly common (because of DMU). Because of DMU's mixed reputation, more people than you would think take interest in which degree their physicians have.

Thats not my experience. Every DO I have worked with has been in a private practice setting with other MDs. THere was never a difference between patients seen, and the topic of degree never came up.

On a separate note, I'm intersted in your comment about Des Moines since i am visiting in a few weeks for interview. I am pretty excited about it, but would like to konw about the mixed rep you mention. You can PM me if you dont want to post it on here.

 

[RySerr21]

I wouldn't assume that all patients don't know anything about medical care. Having that kind of attitude with patients might make them feel inferior and uninformed. A good patient (not all patients by any means) does their research.

Yup, thats EXACTLY what I said. If you quote my post, youll see the words "All patients don't know anything about medical care." Silly me.

I dont know anybody who searches for a doctor by "degree." You are either referred somewhere, or you go to whoever takes your insurance. It would be interesting if someone actually did a study (maybe it has been done?) that looked at how patients choose thier doctors. Specifically, how many patients know what a DO is? How many would choose an MD over a DO just because of the degree? etc. etc. There is really no point in arguing it either way since no one knows (unless there has been a study which would be intersting to read).

 

[beachblonde]

To get back to the OP's original question, I think a lack of familiarity with the DO degree is a valid reason for not applying. Not everybody grew up in an area with DOs, and I don't think it's fair to expect that all students are even aware of the option. That's especially true if you don't hang out on SDN; I can imagine it would be easy enough for a student to take the MCAT, buy the MSAR, apply through AMCAS, and go throughout it all without having a solid idea that going DO is a valid alternative.

I had never heard of what a DO was until about a year ago, and hence I didn't apply to any DO schools last cycle. I've come to realize that I want to be a doctor-I don't give a rat's butt about the initials after my name-so I applied to both this go-round.

 

[GreenShirt]

If you're ever confronted with this question in an interview (I actually had it once myself), it's better to hit some objective aspects* of the argument than arguing subjective points. BTW, there are plenty of DOs on faculty at MD schools (I had several M1 lectures given by DOs), there is no reason a DO couldn't be on the admissions committee so tread lightly if confronted with this question.

Objective points you might mention:
-DO students spend more time in class due to the added OMM requirement
-Extra boards if you wish to apply for a MD residency
-Limited international practice rights

I second this post. If you're asked why not "X" other career in health care, the general form behind this question, you need to come up with a positive subjective answers. Claiming that you didn't consider other degrees because you felt they were inferior suggests you may have trouble working with the other crucial members of a health care team (or, rather, they won't enjoy working with someone who has a diva complex).

There are some caveats to Depakotes examples:
-DO students spend more time in class due to the added OMM requirement: Medical schools have anywhere from 0-8 hrs of lecture a day...so adding OMM to this may or may not equal more time spent in class.
-Extra boards if you wish to apply for a MD residency: It's not required for DO's to take the USMLE, although it can be a helpful addition when applying for very competitive residencies.
-Limited international practice rights: MDs face hurdles for international practice as well.

Some other points that might work:
-Research opportunites are limited in DO schools
-You're not interested in learning OMM
-You're not familiar with osteopathic medicine

Better yet, just focus on what drew you to allopathic medicine and keep it positive.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Oh Christ here we go ....


I am 100% staying away from this thread.

 

[beachblonde]

Oh Christ here we go ....


I am 100% staying away from this thread.

Danger, Will Robinson!



But seriously, I hate that in any interview you may not only have to justify why MD, but also why not DO. I mean, where's the line? Why not become a PA, or RN, or hec, a JD? It's hard enough to articulate why you want to go into medicine, it's just opening up another whole can of worms to say justify why not another. Too bad "I just don't want to be X" isn't enough of an answer. Frankly, sometimes I feel like it's the only non-refutable answer (because for every quote-unquote objective reason/fact you can come up with, it can be refuted in some way or another, anecdotally or otherwise).

 

[JaggerPlate]

Danger, Will Robinson!



But seriously, I hate that in any interview you may not only have to justify why MD, but also why not DO. I mean, where's the line? Why not become a PA, or RN, or hec, a JD? It's hard enough to articulate why you want to go into medicine, it's just opening up another whole can of worms to say justify why not another. Too bad "I just don't want to be X" isn't enough of an answer. Frankly, sometimes I feel like it's the only non-refutable answer (because for every quote-unquote objective reason/fact you can come up with, it can be refuted in some way or another, anecdotally or otherwise).

Hahah ... trust me, I've had my fill of MD vs DO fights as of late. I'm all filled up for the year. I agree though. I can see asking 'Why DO and not MD' or 'Did you apply to MD schools as well' at a DO interview because some people really don't know the difference or apply to a few DO schools as a backup (which I do think is wrong) but to ask at an MD interview you mine as well just ask 'why medicine,' because otherwise its why not ND, OD, NP, DNP, DC, etc etc etc ...

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

Oh Christ here we go ....


I am 100% staying away from this thread.

This won't end well. 🙁

 

[AmoryBlaine]

It's a pretty strange interview question. If asked I would focus on a few answers people already gave i.e.

1. Looking for more of a research focus.
2. Concern about primary care focus (be careful with this one, many schools consider themselves primary care focused)
3. Concern about multiple board exams
4. Unsure about learning OMT

Stay far away from issues of residency competitiveness etc. I would not say something like, "my scores are competitive for MD so I didn't apply DO." I think the internat'l thing is probably valid to bring up as well. As someone pointed out it can also be difficult for MDs but some countries still do not even recognize osteopaths as physicians.

 

[Caesar]

It's a pretty strange interview question. If asked I would focus on a few answers people already gave i.e.

1. Looking for more of a research focus.
2. Concern about primary care focus (be careful with this one, many schools consider themselves primary care focused)
3. Concern about multiple board exams
4. Unsure about learning OMT

Stay far away from issues of residency competitiveness etc. I would not say something like, "my scores are competitive for MD so I didn't apply DO." I think the internat'l thing is probably valid to bring up as well. As someone pointed out it can also be difficult for MDs but some countries still do not even recognize osteopaths as physicians.

Another thing is location. There are 5 MD schools near enough to me that I'll apply to, only 1 DO.

 

[stixx]

I think the internat'l thing is probably valid to bring up as well. As someone pointed out it can also be difficult for MDs but some countries still do not even recognize osteopaths as physicians.

This is a valid point. IMO there is just no comparison. You'll be hard pressed to find a director anywhere in the world that doesn't know what an "M.D." is. You will find plenty who have never heard of the initials "D.O." or at best think they're chiropractors with doctoral degrees. And I'm not talking about third world countries half across the globe. Just take a look at Canada. The prejudice is real here.

I wouldn't want to bring that up as a reason however, because the school might not look fondly on the idea of subsidizing your training only for you to go practice somewhere else.

I think the "not a fan of OMM" one is safest. Shows you've actually researched it and not just going off of preconceived biases.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

Thats not my experience. Every DO I have worked with has been in a private practice setting with other MDs. THere was never a difference between patients seen, and the topic of degree never came up.

Same here. I've shadowed two DO's and both were in private practice alongside MD's (one was the senior partner with 5 MD Ortho surgeons under him).

While they met with patients, the words "osteopathic" and "DO" never came up. Strangely enough, if you are a skilled physician or surgeon, you will get patients 🙄

Then again, I live in what is considered a "DO" friendly state, so I can understand someone's concern if they do not live in one. I've mentioned this before, but I know lots of med students (MDs and DOs) and shadowed both MD's and DO's, and it seems the only ones that see the difference between both degrees are pre-meds.

Anyways, if asked "why not DO?", don't say "because you never heard of it", because chances are, you might be working beside one some day.

 

[Starbuck815]

This is a valid point. IMO there is just no comparison. You'll be hard pressed to find a director anywhere in the world that doesn't know what an "M.D." is. You will find plenty who have never heard of the initials "D.O." or at best think they're chiropractors with doctoral degrees. And I'm not talking about third world countries half across the globe. Just take a look at Canada. The prejudice is real here.

True. Here is Canada there are no D.O. schools or degrees that I've ever heard of. I'd never even heard of osteopathic medicine until I found SDN. If you said you were a D.O. to most Canadians, they wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about.

That being said, as long as you're not considering practicing in Canada (and most of you are likely not- its generally the other way around) or other international, D.O-less countries its really not much of an issue.

 

[8744]

So i was asked at an interview last year if i had considered any DO schools. I hadn't, and the interviewer asked me why. I don't really have any good answer for this other than i just have never really considered DO. And my answer was something to that effect. I'm not sure what kind of reason he was looking for. I had just already spent the past year or so familiarizing myself with Allo schools, i dont really know anything about DO schools. And honestly, i dont know much about DOs. It seems to me the programs are pretty similar, and same for practice.

For those of you who have only considered Allo, why not DO?

"What's a DO?"

 

[daniellema13]

"What's a DO?"

.

 

[135892]

"What's a DO?"

a fake doctor

 

[bugalow121]

a fake doctor

not fake, just different. sort of like how if we were comparing operating systems, apple osx :: windows :: linux, as MD :: NP :: DO

 

[Depakote]

As premeds, it would be unwise to bash the degrees of those that can and will be your colleagues. You may even find yourself working under attendings with those degrees at some point.

I'm giving this thread one more chance to get back on track and address the OP's question. If it degenerates into another MD v. DO thread or a DO bashing thread it will be closed.

 

[m_rivera84]

Until I joined SDN, I never knew the existence of DOs. I would just say I'm not familiar with osteopathic medicine, and do not know enough about it to comment.

 

[Lukkie]

I'm interested in studying cancer, and I don't think you can solve that by teaching a patient to sit differently

 

[Virgil]

I swear, it's like some of these DO fanboys have a custom-made RSS feed that alerts them anytime the word "osteopathy" or the letters "DO" grace the pre-allopathic forum. 🙄

 

[bugalow121]

I'm interested in studying cancer, and I don't think you can solve that by teaching a patient to sit differently

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAH. props to you broski.

 

[Decicco]

I'm interested in studying cancer, and I don't think you can solve that by teaching a patient to sit differently

At first I thought this was a snide comment, but then I remembered how there was a DO on npr a few weeks ago that was talking about the importance of not sitting with your wallet in your back pocket.

 

[nlax30]

I'm interested in studying cancer, and I don't think you can solve that by teaching a patient to sit differently

What the HECK are you talking about?

Anyway, to get this back on track to the OP's question..... I would just be honest and if it really is because you just never looked into osteopathic medicine and/or are not familiar with it then just say that.

If you are/were familiar with it and just didn't go down that path then just say why. Now if the "why" deals with some sort of bias you have or other pre-med rumors you've heard from others then I would keep those to yourself and try to answer the question in a tackful way. I'm pretty sure answering the question by bashing your future colleagues will not be looked on highly. There's even the possibility that the person asking you happens to BE a DO....

There's still going to be people who don't view the degree as "equal" to the MD, then there's going to be those who think having a DO will hold them back from whatever they want to achieve professionally, there are those who just won't be familiar with it, and then there are probably people who just didn't want to do two separate application services.

 

[Starbuck815]

My advice? I wouldn't say you just don't know much about the D.O. option- cause if you are really serious about being a doctor you likely know about it and looked into it.

Just be honest about what doesn't appeal to you (unless its the "prestige" of your initials- if that's the reason... uh, lie I guess). Things like not being interested in primary care/ interest in specialties that DOs have difficulty matching into, wanting to be involved in research, not being interested in learning OMM, wanting to keep international options open... all fine. They show you've done your research, and have a valid reason for preferring MD.

 

[Lukkie]

What the HECK are you talking about?

i apologize if i can across as snide, it wasn't my intention. i actually appreciate DO very much and i think most people here (people interested in patient health) would be much better DO candidates than MD. the osteopathic approach to caring for a patient is much better than allo since it searches for the root of the problem rather than attack the symptoms. it makes curious about what a lot of people's real desires are when they say "they want to help people" yet reject DO.

with that said - i don't DO offers an advantage vs MD in regards to oncology. i doubt theres much strong evidence showing how osteopathic-specific approaches can reduce the chances of getting cancer in the first place, or treating it once its present.

I consider DO equal or superior to allopathic care in many situations, especially the day-to-day problems most patients go to the clinic with.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

Why not DO?

Because there is no scientific basis for OMM.

 

[Tired]

I'd focus less on answering the specific question, and more on wondering why it was asked in the first place.

Honestly, when I read the OP's first post, my first thought was that it was a veiled suggestion from the interviewer that he may not have the numbers for an MD program.

That question would make me very very nervous about my prospects for an MD admission.

 

[ar2388]

re: international opportunities

Although US osteopathic medical physicians currently may obtain licensure in 47 countries, osteopathic curricula in countries other than the United States differs. DOs outside the US are known as "osteopaths" and their scope of practice excludes usual medical therapies and relies more exclusively on osteopathic manipulative medicine and other alternative medical modalities.

 

[stixx]

That question would make me very very nervous about my prospects for an MD admission.

Getting asked anything like, "why haven't you considered something other than this particular program at this particular school?" would both annoy and scare the crap out of me. There's no right way to answer, and unless your interviewer just enjoys social engineering, he's probably already made up his mind up about you.

 

[ar2388]

i think the primary care is a good excuse:

There are notable differences in the specialty choices of MDs and DOs. One study attributes this to a difference in the 'cultures' of their medical schools. "In comparison with allopathic schools [MD], the cultural practices and educational structures in osteopathic medical schools better support the production of primary care physicians."[6] According to one survey, 54.6% of deans of conventional medical schools reported that training future primary care physicians was more important to their institutions than training future specialist physicians, compared with 100% of osteopathic medical school deans. (F = 893.11,95, p < .0001).[6]

 

[fire2]

So i was asked at an interview last year if i had considered any DO schools. I hadn't, and the interviewer asked me why. I don't really have any good answer for this other than i just have never really considered DO. And my answer was something to that effect. I'm not sure what kind of reason he was looking for. I had just already spent the past year or so familiarizing myself with Allo schools, i dont really know anything about DO schools. And honestly, i dont know much about DOs. It seems to me the programs are pretty similar, and same for practice.

For those of you who have only considered Allo, why not DO?

Was it a caribbean school?

 

[JaggerPlate]

Was it a caribbean school?

Don't Caribbean schools do interviews over the phone??

 

[enjoydrywax]

nm, dont want to start a war

 

[daniellema13]

I'd focus less on answering the specific question, and more on wondering why it was asked in the first place.

Honestly, when I read the OP's first post, my first thought was that it was a veiled suggestion from the interviewer that he may not have the numbers for an MD program.

That question would make me very very nervous about my prospects for an MD admission.

Actually when the interviewer asked me this, i was a little put off at first, but my numbers are solid...way above average GPA for the school and average mcat. I later learned that this was a standard question asked at the school even among accepted applicants (i did my undergrad there).

Was it a caribbean school?

no.