why not nursing or social work?

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lina123321

lina123321

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aargh!! i hate the thought of answering this question because Nursing and PHysician are very closely related in terms of what they entail, their mission to help patients, etc....how does one approach this Q?
 
This question seems to be prompted by using the phrase "I want to help people"
 
Aye, if you want to avoid it be specific about why you want to help people and make sure it is in a way only a doctor could.

"I want to stop flesh eating bacteria from eating people alive." Ok maybe that is a lousy example try, "My most miserable memories are being sick and to minimize that feeling in others." Sure needs some tuning but you get the point.
 
Tell 'em only by being a doc can you quench your thirst for blood.
 
eh.
 
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here is my little analogy:
suppose that neither cars nor airplanes have been invented. Now, suppose that you are allowed to invent only one of those things...If you had the ability to invent the airplane, wouldn't u do that, instead of inventing the car?

I dont know if that just made sense but if u translate that to nursing/socialwork vs. physician, i think u could say that becoming a physician requires a lot more hard work, determination, analytical skills, leadership skills, academic excellence, science aptitude, etc, which are generally not required for a nursing/social work profession (without undermining the importance of nurses or social workers or their profession). So, if you have all the things that it takes to become a physician, I think that you are actually morally obligated to become one, because there aren't that many people who have what it takes to become a physician, and God knows the world needs lots of physicians.

Trying to make it clearer: If u had to do either A or B (B being more difficult than A), and u could do both, while some people could do only A, then it makes sense that those who can do only A have no choice, while those who can do both have a responsibility to do B.

Hope this makes sense.
 
Trismegistus4 said:
Why not social work? I'm not a liberal.

Why not nursing? I don't think I'd look good in a little white dress.
Click to expand...

Nurses wear white dresses? News flash the nurses in strip clubs aren't really nurses.

And what the hell does helping people who have fallen on hard times have to do with political affiliation?

"Kid I know your mom just died and your dad is in prison. I don't care though and I won't help you find a home because I am not a GOD DAMNED LIBERAL! Maybe you should go to Thailand, they hire kids your age there."
 
Trismegistus4 said:
Why not social work? I'm not a liberal.

Why not nursing? I don't think I'd look good in a little white dress.
Click to expand...

You, obviously, have not had a job in a health related field have you?

Social workers, masters degree levels, are now the forefront "counselors" in many mental health settings. They also help manage discharge planning in many medical settings.

This information would be useful to know before you enter the field as a physician because you will depend on social workers in many aspects of treating your patients.

As it also goes for nurses...
 
JimmyG said:
You, obviously, have not had a job in a health related field have you?

Social workers, masters degree levels, are now the forefront "counselors" in many mental health settings. They also help manage discharge planning in many medical settings.

This information would be useful to know before you enter the field as a physician because you will depend on social workers in many aspects of treating your patients.

As it also goes for nurses...
Click to expand...
Actually, although not necessarily tree-hugging hippie types, most social workers do tend to be pretty socially liberal. Tris4 is on the mark there.

And you are absolutely correct- physicians need to remember that their medical social workers can make their life a breeze or a living hell. 🙂

-Your Friendly Neighborhood MSW LCSW
 
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pingouin said:
Actually, although not necessarily tree-hugging hippie types, most social workers do tend to be pretty socially liberal. Tris4 is on the mark there.

And you are absolutely correct- physicians need to remember that their medical social workers can make their life a breeze or a living hell. 🙂

-Your Friendly Neighborhood MSW LCSW
Click to expand...
And the only person who can make your life more of a living hell is a disgruntled nurse.
 
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Unless i've missed something, neither nurses nor social workers can lead a surgical team and that is precisely what I plan to do.
 
^ Thought you might find this handy...gunner! :laugh:


turret.jpg
 
"because there aren't that many people who have what it takes to become a physician"

False, there are many with the ability to do so. But, some people are just not interested or do something even harder like getting a doctorate or a lower degree in one of the mathematical sciences.
 
and very arrogant as well.
 
3 women in my family are nurses or the equivalent, and they would go a different route if it were possible. Whenever I head home for holidays I can count on any number of hellish work stories meant to emphasize the 'go all the way' message. I'll take the advice of those who have taken the nursing path and go for medicine. Not to ramble, but I really don't consider it a question. Besides school is fun......for now.
 
JimmyG said:
You, obviously, have not had a job in a health related field have you?

Social workers, masters degree levels, are now the forefront "counselors" in many mental health settings. They also help manage discharge planning in many medical settings.

This information would be useful to know before you enter the field as a physician because you will depend on social workers in many aspects of treating your patients.

As it also goes for nurses...
Click to expand...

Wrong-o, sweetie. I currently work for an academic doc and share office space with a social worker. While I admit I don't know a huge amount about social work, it seems to me like the field is structured from the ground up around a politically/culturally liberal model for helping people. At least, all the social workers I've ever known were liberal.

But, my post was tongue in cheek anyway, as should be obvious from the little white dresses comment.
 
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i know my point of view isn't particularly relevant to someone having to answer this question during an interview, but my answer would be...

what if everyone decided to be a nurse/social worker? turn it right back around to the interviewer...

i have tremendous respect for the role that social workers and, especially, nurses play. but, ultimately, physicians are the ones responsible for what happens to the their patients. that, i think, is the real distinction between nurses and physicians. both have a great deal of knowledge, but ultimately i think it's a question of responsibility.
 
I think I'd be a policeman, if not a doctor. They too have power and the job requires some skills and certain attitude.
 
colbgw02 said:
i know my point of view isn't particularly relevant to someone having to answer this question during an interview, but my answer would be...

what if everyone decided to be a nurse/social worker? turn it right back around to the interviewer...

i have tremendous respect for the role that social workers and, especially, nurses play. but, ultimately, physicians are the ones responsible for what happens to the their patients. that, i think, is the real distinction between nurses and physicians. both have a great deal of knowledge, but ultimately i think it's a question of responsibility.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think responsibility is the key word in deciding whether or not nursing/pa or doctor.

As far as social work goes, those working as licensed mental health therapists have a great deal of autonomy. As a licensed clinician you can set up a private practice and not answer to anyone. There are also administrative roles where you are not answering to psychologists/psychiatrists for anything. These positions even exist with the state, etc.

Because there is autonomy in mental health social work, many not interested in research have pursued social work instead of becoming a psychologist. Either of these career paths will allow one to practice with autonomy.
 
somemaybedoc said:
This question seems to be prompted by using the phrase "I want to help people"
Click to expand...

very very true. a good way to pre-empt and avoid it is to mention something in your "why do you want to be a dr?" answer about wanting to stay at the forefront of medical science...or you could go ahead and mention something about a certain specialty you're really interested in. that way, the interviewer won't want to follow with the "why not a nurse?" question, even if that was the original plan, because it will seem out-of-place. the natural progression will instead be to ask you more about that specialty.😉
 
21JumpStreet said:
I agree. I think responsibility is the key word in deciding whether or not nursing/pa or doctor.

As far as social work goes, those working as licensed mental health therapists have a great deal of autonomy. As a licensed clinician you can set up a private practice and not answer to anyone. There are also administrative roles where you are not answering to psychologists/psychiatrists for anything. These positions even exist with the state, etc.

Because there is autonomy in mental health social work, many not interested in research have pursued social work instead of becoming a psychologist. Either of these career paths will allow one to practice with autonomy.
Click to expand...

What's the difference between a licenced mental health therapist and a psychologist? And are there research requirements for going into psychology? And (finally), is there really less autonomy as a psych(ologist/iatrist) than as an MH therapist?
 
Rafa said:
What's the difference between a licenced mental health therapist and a psychologist? And are there research requirements for going into psychology? And (finally), is there really less autonomy as a psych(ologist/iatrist) than as an MH therapist?
Click to expand...
As a general rule, licensed psychologists have a PhD or PsyD in psychology (you may find some exceptions due to grandfathering clauses when licensure was instituted for that state). Very research-heavy AND clinical training-heavy, 5-year doctoral degrees. I believe that psych doctoral programs do look for research on the applications, but I'm not the expert on that. The Psychology Forum would have the answers to those questions.

A licensed clinical social worker (LCSW, or whatever a particular state calls it) has a Masters of Social Work, while a licensed professional counselor (LPC, or again- whatever each state calls it) will have a Masters in Counseling, or MEd in Counseling, etc etc. And then the licensed marriage and family therapists (LMFTs)... These are all 2-year degrees. Although they require some research classes, the focus is on clinical training. Social work is the only one of those three fields that does not exclusively train their students in mental health. That is, you can get a MSW having done a concentration in Administration, Health, Children and Families, Mental Health, Community Organization, and many others. So as a general rule, having the MSW offers a bit more flexibility than the others should someone want to switch focus within the field.

All of the above practitioners are licensed to practice independently within their state.

Depending on how a practice is set up, it can be very autonomous, as is a physician's (psychiatrist's). I am the sole proprietor of my private practice. Many of my clients see psychiatrists for medication, and I do a lot of collaboration with those doctors when possible, but they do not dictate my practice style. They do send me referrals, though, so it behooves me to stay friendly with them. The collaboration also helps me do a CYA in the event of a negative outcome.
 
pingouin said:
As a general rule, licensed psychologists have a PhD or PsyD in psychology (you may find some exceptions due to grandfathering clauses when licensure was instituted for that state). Very research-heavy AND clinical training-heavy, 5-year doctoral degrees. I believe that psych doctoral programs do look for research on the applications, but I'm not the expert on that. The Psychology Forum would have the answers to those questions.

A licensed clinical social worker (LCSW, or whatever a particular state calls it) has a Masters of Social Work, while a licensed professional counselor (LPC, or again- whatever each state calls it) will have a Masters in Counseling, or MEd in Counseling, etc etc. And then the licensed marriage and family therapists (LMFTs)... These are all 2-year degrees. Although they require some research classes, the focus is on clinical training. Social work is the only one of those three fields that does not exclusively train their students in mental health. That is, you can get a MSW having done a concentration in Administration, Health, Children and Families, Mental Health, Community Organization, and many others. So as a general rule, having the MSW offers a bit more flexibility than the others should someone want to switch focus within the field.

All of the above practitioners are licensed to practice independently within their state.

Depending on how a practice is set up, it can be very autonomous, as is a physician's (psychiatrist's). I am the sole proprietor of my private practice. Many of my clients see psychiatrists for medication, and I do a lot of collaboration with those doctors when possible, but they do not dictate my practice style. They do send me referrals, though, so it behooves me to stay friendly with them. The collaboration also helps me do a CYA in the event of a negative outcome.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the very informative reply. If I may ask, why did you choose to go into therapy (instead of an LMFT or a PsyD or an MD in psych)? I'm actually hovering between venturing into therapy and the psychiatric route, but I know very little of what the procedure is for becoming a therapist. What is a typical day like for you as an LMHT? How did you go about starting a private practice? And what's required to apply into a therapy school?
 
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Rafa said:
Thank you for the very informative reply. If I may ask, why did you choose to go into therapy (instead of an LMFT or a PsyD or an MD in psych)? I'm actually hovering between venturing into therapy and the psychiatric route, but I know very little of what the procedure is for becoming a therapist. What is a typical day like for you as an LMHT? How did you go about starting a private practice? And what's required to apply into a therapy school?
Click to expand...
ummmmm.. I was pre-med when I started college. It wasn't working out- long story. My advisor suggested I meet with the BSSW advisor, and she was wonderful, so that became my new major.. loved it. advantage of BSSW over BS Psych- required practicum of ~600 hours, which gave us much more "real-world" experience over the psychs.

volunteered for a year full-time for a non-profit after graduation. missed being in school, so applied for MSWs for the next year, got in. kind of a natural transition, and everyone knows that you can't make a decent living in the field without it. since I had the BSSW, got the social work equivalent of AP credit and only had to go FT one year to get my MSW. didn't really want to be a therapist while in school. (hated my program b/c of their clinical orientation/philosophy.) again- mandatory practica. 👍

I've had several jobs- mostly in mental health b/c that was my concentration, kind of by default- and have found that the field is ripe with practitioners that have psychopathology that rivals or exceeds what many of my clients have had. got sick of working for these folks, had been licensed for years, found a group of therapists who had an open office in their suite, and the rest is history. I see about 12-15 people/week. one of my previous jobs had been as a therapist for a county community mental health center, so I was already on several insurance panels and Medicare's panel which made this transition easier. plus I'd worked in managed care as a case manager, so I know how to work that system if I need to.

also have decided to go back to school and pursue MD/DO, so now taking post-bacc classes, 2/semester. wanted more medical/non-psych experience, so landed myself 2 PT jobs at 2 different hospitals doing medical SW. so MY typical day might involved go to class---> to the office and see 3 people -------> back to class OR work at the hospital 9-1 -----> go to the office until 7, it just depends on the day. and most of my colleagues would tell you that my schedule is completely atypical. 🙄 (and they'd be right)
 
pingouin said:
ummmmm.. I was pre-med when I started college. It wasn't working out- long story. My advisor suggested I meet with the BSSW advisor, and she was wonderful, so that became my new major.. loved it. advantage of BSSW over BS Psych- required practicum of ~600 hours, which gave us much more "real-world" experience over the psychs.

volunteered for a year full-time for a non-profit after graduation. missed being in school, so applied for MSWs for the next year, got in. kind of a natural transition, and everyone knows that you can't make a decent living in the field without it. since I had the BSSW, got the social work equivalent of AP credit and only had to go FT one year to get my MSW. didn't really want to be a therapist while in school. (hated my program b/c of their clinical orientation/philosophy.) again- mandatory practica. 👍

I've had several jobs- mostly in mental health b/c that was my concentration, kind of by default- and have found that the field is ripe with practitioners that have psychopathology that rivals or exceeds what many of my clients have had. got sick of working for these folks, had been licensed for years, found a group of therapists who had an open office in their suite, and the rest is history. I see about 12-15 people/week. one of my previous jobs had been as a therapist for a county community mental health center, so I was already on several insurance panels and Medicare's panel which made this transition easier. plus I'd worked in managed care as a case manager, so I know how to work that system if I need to.

also have decided to go back to school and pursue MD/DO, so now taking post-bacc classes, 2/semester. wanted more medical/non-psych experience, so landed myself 2 PT jobs at 2 different hospitals doing medical SW. so MY typical day might involved go to class---> to the office and see 3 people -------> back to class OR work at the hospital 9-1 -----> go to the office until 7, it just depends on the day. and most of my colleagues would tell you that my schedule is completely atypical. 🙄 (and they'd be right)
Click to expand...

Wow. But it sounds like you've got both the experience and the academic credentia to work comfortably now. So are you going to med school for a full-on career switch (like something totally unrelated to mental health/psych), or...what made you decide to return to pre-med land? (my last question, I promise! 🙂)
 
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Rafa said:
Wow. But it sounds like you've got both the experience and the academic credentia to work comfortably now. So are you going to med school for a full-on career switch (like something totally unrelated to mental health/psych), or...what made you decide to return to pre-med land? (my last question, I promise! 🙂)
Click to expand...
it was a combination of factors at the time I made the decision, some personal, some professional. I really don't want to get into the specific reasons publicly.

regarding specialty, my usual response is "let me just get in first, and then I'll let you know!"

of course, psych is on my short list, but there are several other areas where I think my current career would provide a nice complement to medical education. and I promised a psychiatrist I used to work with that I'd keep an open mind. you know, just in case nephrology says "Pick me! Pick me!" 🙄
 
Easy answer. Nurses help patients, Doctors treat patients. Huge difference. Nursing doesn't teach how to treat patients or what to prescribe them. Medicine does.
 
SRK85 said:
Easy answer. Nurses help patients, Doctors treat patients. Huge difference. Nursing doesn't teach how to treat patients or what to prescribe them. Medicine does.
Click to expand...
In my experience, this is a gross underestimation of nursing's knowledge and experience bases.
 
SRK85 said:
Easy answer. Nurses help patients, Doctors treat patients. Huge difference. Nursing doesn't teach how to treat patients or what to prescribe them. Medicine does.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true. Nurse practitioners can treat patients and have prescription rights. I see an ANP for my primary health care provider, and she is amazing. I thought about the NP route but ultimately did want to be able to have full independence as a healthcare provider, so am going DO. I'll always have tremendous respect for the nurses I work with, though - they are dealing with a lot in their own profession.

I work full-time as a mental health case manager at the moment and have done it for the past three years. It can be a pretty miserable existence at times (I suppose any job could be like that, including a physician's). Like another poster said, a lot of people in the mental health circle have their own psychopathology that can make your life a living you-know-what. Sociopaths, alcoholics, you name it. Not sure if I expect that to change when I'm in medicine, but here's hoping.
 
SRK85 said:
Easy answer. Nurses help patients, Doctors treat patients. Huge difference. Nursing doesn't teach how to treat patients or what to prescribe them. Medicine does.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true. Nurse practitioners can treat patients and have prescription rights. I see an ANP for my primary health care provider, and she is amazing. I thought about the NP route but ultimately did want to be able to have full independence as a healthcare provider, so am going DO. I'll always have tremendous respect for the nurses I work with, though - they are dealing with a lot in their own profession.

I work full-time as a mental health case manager at the moment and have done it for the past three years. It can be a pretty miserable existence at times (I suppose any job could be like that, including a physician's). Like another poster said, a lot of people in the mental health circle have their own psychopathology that can make your life a living you-know-what. Sociopaths, alcoholics, you name it. Not sure if I expect that to change when I'm in medicine, but here's hoping.
 
SRK85 said:
Easy answer. Nurses help patients, Doctors treat patients. Huge difference. Nursing doesn't teach how to treat patients or what to prescribe them. Medicine does.
Click to expand...
\

Tell that to the ICU nurse who was responding to codes with me tonight. I think he had a pretty good idea of what was going on, how to treat the codee, and the code was runing just fine and would have continued to if I had been mugged on my way to the sixth floor.

It is true that some nurses don't know what to do in a code and look for direction but a lot of doctors don't know either. I've noticed the relieved look that spreads across the faces of the pediatric, family medicine, and OB Gyn residents when the Emergency Medicine or Internal Medicine Senior resident shows up.
 
pingouin said:
it was a combination of factors at the time I made the decision, some personal, some professional. I really don't want to get into the specific reasons publicly.

regarding specialty, my usual response is "let me just get in first, and then I'll let you know!"

of course, psych is on my short list, but there are several other areas where I think my current career would provide a nice complement to medical education. and I promised a psychiatrist I used to work with that I'd keep an open mind. you know, just in case nephrology says "Pick me! Pick me!" 🙄
Click to expand...

👍 Cool.
 
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drhannibal said:
very very true. a good way to pre-empt and avoid it is to mention something in your "why do you want to be a dr?" answer about wanting to stay at the forefront of medical science...or you could go ahead and mention something about a certain specialty you're really interested in. that way, the interviewer won't want to follow with the "why not a nurse?" question, even if that was the original plan, because it will seem out-of-place. the natural progression will instead be to ask you more about that specialty.😉
Click to expand...

that is exactly what happened to me....and i am a nurse! i got to talk about what specialties i loved and never once was asked "why not nursing?".
 
Panda Bear said:
\

Tell that to the ICU nurse who was responding to codes with me tonight. I think he had a pretty good idea of what was going on.
Click to expand...

👍

BionicOne said:
hard work, determination, analytical skills, leadership skills, academic excellence, science aptitude, etc, which are generally not required for a nursing/social work profession.
Click to expand...

😡
them's fightin' words.
*puts up dukes*
 
asunshine said:
😡
them's fightin' words.
*puts up dukes*
Click to expand...


wow. apparently I skimmed over that part.

well, asunshine, looks like we may have to use our "helping skills" to help explain how nursing and social work utilize "hard work, determination, analytical skills, leadership skills, academic excellence, science aptitude" in our respective professions. of course, yours is a little more dependent on the hard sciences than mine, but it's an even trade with the amount of social sciences I've got.
 
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