Why not Psychiatry?

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So, I'm a 3rd year medical student and I've decided to go into Psychiatry. My other consideration was EM. I just feel the most comfortable in Psych.

My question to you all is: Why shouldn't I choose psychiatry? What are the aspects of psych practice that make you regret your choice?

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

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Currently, I'm just a 4th year so I don't know if my thoughts will help you, but I think it would be helpful to first know what you mean by "comfortable."
 
I think most people are happy to be in their specialty (after all, if you really hate your specialty you can switch out).
Some possible issues I could see bothering someone about the field:
A lot of people don't view psychiatrists as "real" doctors or will think that you went into it because you aren't knowledgeable/comfortable with "real" medicine.
Some of the patients can be difficult to work with...demanding or manipulative, very poor hygiene, etc. (though that is a huge issue in EM too :))
Sometimes your ability to really help someone is limited by the limits of the community resources available (i.e., if you have a homeless patient, then giving them a prescription alone is really not going to solve the root of the problem - again an issue in EM sometimes too).
If one of the things you like about EM is that you enjoy doing procedures, you might miss that in psych.
 
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Some people, due to their personality, just don't fit well into psychiatry.

Some doctors don't like to talk to their patients and get to know them. Others don't want to work in a setting where they are exposed to the bottom of society. Others like the more mechanical aspects of medicine such as surgery.

None of these are criticisms. Different fields attract different personalities. The different fields will also shape personalities as well.
 
So, I'm a 3rd year medical student and I've decided to go into Psychiatry. My other consideration was EM. I just feel the most comfortable in Psych.

My question to you all is: Why shouldn't I choose psychiatry? What are the aspects of psych practice that make you regret your choice?

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Im not a resident yet so I can't comment as well as others on the day to day issues, but I think money is a part of it as well.

It seems like a lot of people debate between IM and psych(those that cant decide at least), and IM subspecialties like GI and cards especially dwarf the income potential of psychiatry.
 
Some of the patients can be difficult to work with...demanding or manipulative, very poor hygiene, etc. (though that is a huge issue in EM too :))
Sometimes your ability to really help someone is limited by the limits of the community resources available (i.e., if you have a homeless patient, then giving them a prescription alone is really not going to solve the root of the problem - again an issue in EM sometimes too).
If one of the things you like about EM is that you enjoy doing procedures, you might miss that in psych.

Just finished an EM rotation, and yeah, stinky patients, difficult patients, etc. are pretty common. In fact, the ED is full of psych patients -- you're just not doing much for them in terms of psych care. You can definitely do a lot of procedures in the ED, though -- we'd have a few intubations and central lines every shift coupled with frequent lac repairs and abscess I&Ds. The big either upside or downside to EM (depending on what you want) is that you're really not very involved with any patients or their treatments. You stabilize, consult and move on. Some people love it, but I can see how it could leave you unsatisfied. The other downside to EM to me is that lots of the stuff you're doing is routine and kinda boring -- working up 10 cases of abdominal pain in one night can get pretty old. I'd definitely suggest doing an EM rotation because it was really not what I expected.

As for why not psych, those difficult, stinky, not getting better patients are yours for a while. You could do emergency psych work, though, and then I guess you could skip the longterm relationships. Psych is also probably about the lowest prestige specialty out there, so if that matters to you, it could make it less appealing. And yeah, limited procedures, but you could do a lot of ECT if you want to. Compensation is probably less than EM but still decent. Less opportunities for shift work if that appeals to you (it doesn't to me), but again, you could investigate emergency psych work. And what's generally cited as the biggest downside of psych -- patient improvement can be limited. So with EM, your patients might not improve, but it's not on your watch. With psych, it probably is.

There are a ton of upsides for psych, though. Good lifestyle -- all the EM docs I worked with did nights regardless of seniority. Lots of different career paths -- there doesn't seem to be as much variability in EM careers. Fascinating subject matter (if you like psych), and some patients actually are really helped by your work. And psychiatry is a rapidly changing, growing field, so it's pretty exciting. Doing psych also gives you the ability to really delve into a specialty, whereas EM docs usually function as generalists.
 
And yeah, limited procedures, but you could do a lot of ECT if you want to.

I wouldn't really count ECT as a procedure.

Not that it isn't a procedure, but it doesn't really require any manual dexterity and it's really pretty different from other medical procedures. So I kind of doubt it would be satisfying for someone who enjoys procedures to bank on doing a lot of ECT to scratch that itch.
 
No procedures.

Limited opportunity to do medical stuff. I get screamed at every now and then for wanting to handle general medical issues. As always, my argument is that its at least 10000x more appropriate for a psychiatrist to handle HTN or DM2 or basic infections than it is for a medicine doctor to use psych meds.

Having to fight with the patient about their well-intentioned but ultimately wrong non-psych doctors re: pain, fibromyalgia, IBS.
 
No procedures.

Limited opportunity to do medical stuff. I get screamed at every now and then for wanting to handle general medical issues. As always, my argument is that its at least 10000x more appropriate for a psychiatrist to handle HTN or DM2 or basic infections than it is for a medicine doctor to use psych meds.

for what psych meds? You don't mean commonly rx'd antidepressents for dysthymic disorder do you?
 
I wouldn't really count ECT as a procedure.

Not that it isn't a procedure, but it doesn't really require any manual dexterity and it's really pretty different from other medical procedures. So I kind of doubt it would be satisfying for someone who enjoys procedures to bank on doing a lot of ECT to scratch that itch.

That's true, but most routine procedures don't require a ton of manual dexterity or skill. Personally I don't really get the procedure deal unless you're a surgeon or something. Intubations, central lines, toenail removals .... not too exciting, imo.
 
Limited opportunity to do medical stuff. I get screamed at every now and then for wanting to handle general medical issues. As always, my argument is that its at least 10000x more appropriate for a psychiatrist to handle HTN or DM2 or basic infections than it is for a medicine doctor to use psych meds.

It's been my experience that medical students and residents are perfectly able to handle HTN or DM2 so long as the cases aren't advanced.

Problem is that several attendings allow their medical grasp on treating these issues to slip (although several do not), and insurance companies don't want the psychiatrist treating anything other than the psychiatric.

A patient of mine has treatment-resistant PTSD and panic disorder. I put him on an SSRI a SNRI and buspirone at the maximum dosages. It only improved his depression and did little for his anxiety.

He was on verapamil for HTN, so I asked his PCP to switch it to a beta-blocker, hoping it would further curb his anxiety. I would've just put him on the B-blocker myself, but there's problems with mixing it with verapamil. Since I wasn't the PCP, I didn't want to tell him to stop the verapamil.

The PCP put him on both, and it was causing side effects. I was suspecting he was actually getting some arrhythmia from it (which the mixture could cause). We didn't have an EKG in the office, and I had to call the PCP up asking him to look up the interaction between the 2 meds.

Anyway, my patient's anxiety still hasn't decreased and he is in intense psychotherapy which also is not helping. I'm wondering what to do about it.
 
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I'm using labetalol on occasion for refractory anxiety in pts with htn, and have been quite pleased with the results. Seems to work especially well for pts with a lot of somati sxs.
 
I will be honest. The personality disorder pathology I thought was so fascinating to read about in medical school (and to which I was exposed breifly on a very interesting elective) gets extremely tiresome when you are exposed to it in, essentially, an abusive manner by patients who you pretty much realize will never improve, will continue to present to the ER seeking admission for dubious reasons, and unlike medical patients, can't be treated in some straightforward discreet way.

For example, there is no treatment at all for antisocial PD. We actually run from that dx. Now can you imagine oncologists running from an untreatable cancer patient? No, they bring in palliative care. There is no palliative care for untreatable PDs. All we can do is behold the pathology. Sometimes, especially when you are the intern on call at 3 am in the ER it is horrible. You will be treated quite badly by these patients, and not be able to offer any treatment, and you'll see no hope of things getting better for you or for them. (Well, at least not until you finish residency and don't have to do call.) Same for substance abuse. (Although at least there there is some treatment.)

And psych diagnoses are vague. We have a diasnostic and STATISTICAL manual for a reason. Unless you suspect neurosyphillis or hyper/hypothyroidism or huntingtons, you can't exactly send blood off to the lab and get a result back confirming your hunch. When you do make a diagnosis--great. But some other doctor is going to botch it by diagnosing your very same patient with the Schizophrenia-Bipolar-Schizoaffective trifeca. (Indeed witness the number of people who walk around labeled with all three! Disheartening to say the least.)

If you do get a positive RPR, well, off goes your patient to neuro. We could make a good case for why we need training in LPs, and bring a few procedures into our realm, but not many people in psychiatry seem to want to, which I think is sad. Our training in reading MRIs and CTs isn't what it should be if you ask me. And there are no equations, formulae or famous triads in psych. I personally wish psychiatry would diversify a bit. Oh, and diseases have boring names like "X disorder" rather than being named after people who discovered them. And there aren't new diseases being discovered every day like there are in some fields. Instead, apparently, diseases actually go away in psychiatry from time to time (with each new revision of the DSM)!

The patients are poor historians, almost by definition, and that can make diagnosis hard too. You have to get used to that.

Ok, well you asked what things people don't like about psych, so those are my thoughts! Keep in mind it's winter of my intern year... and I've done a LOT of call.
 
Now can you imagine oncologists running from an untreatable cancer patient? No, they bring in palliative care.

Or, depending on the oncologist, they will continue to offer the patient more and more clinical trials to enroll in and experimental chemo regimens to try without ever telling the patient that they have terminal cancer, leaving it to the on call intern cross-covering the patient at 3 am to explain to the family how it's possible that their mother who just started JQ3-33R4093 last week is actively dying.
 
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You are getting a long winded response from me... but you asked so I figured I'd keep responding with some more peeves of psych residency!

Or, depending on the oncologist, they will continue to offer the patient more and more clinical trials to enroll in and experimental chemo regimens to try without ever telling the patient that they have terminal cancer, leaving it to the on call intern cross-covering the patient at 3 am to explain to the family how it's possible that their mother who just started JQ3-33R4093 last week is actively dying.

Yeah, of course. That must be very difficult. I feel like this level of not-telling-the-patient-and-family-the-truth extends across medicine. We do it in psychiatry when we give people bogus diagnoses, such as when we put down "bipolar" for the borderline patient and then run them through the gamut of mood stabilizers which surpringsingly turn out not to work. I'm sure it's irritating no matter what field you're in.

I wonder what the irritations are for residents in surgery, radiology, etc. I'm not just talking about the obvious things like "surgeons work long hours" and "radiologists don't see patients" and "peds have to deal with the families" but the real annoyances at various stages in the professions. For example it doesn't bother me that "people don't consider psychiatrists real doctors" or "I'm not allowed to manage hypertension" (I'd probably get bored managing HTN even if I was in IM)--although I do mind that most psychiatric diagnosis are not very challenging to make, and there's only like 4 of them total in the world that you see daily and probably 7 others to round things out. These are not obscure endocrinological disorders we are dealing with. (Although I will say that when I've gone to case conferences with experts on personality disorders, they are amazing at identifying subtle pathology in a way that the DSM does not do justice to, which makes psych much more interesting!)

Back to my complaint about the lack of diagnostic complexity--even when uncertainty is justified it is not even particularly interesting, because it's almost always something that overlaps with mania or anxiety--i.e. activated catatonia (or whatever that term is) or pschomotor activated depression. If you ARE debating about a diagnosis in psychiatry, it's the SAME debate you had last week about a different patient. The differential diagnoses in psychiatry is hopelessly small, I'm afraid to say. The one in books is very exciting--you have Charles Bonnet, Capgras Syndrome and all, but that never, ever, ever happens in the real life of a resident. Again, psych patients are poor historians plagued by comorbidities and no one ever walks in clearly endorsing textbook symptoms of a rare or discreet psych disease. It seems to me that essentially we end up treating symptoms (of which I can only think of four that we really even treat: depression, mania, psychosis, anxiety; unless you count EPS sx) and often leave it at that. (However there's also delirium/dementia, which is a different game. Those are not boring. I am also not including child psych.)

I do think that things appear to get better after first year, when we can do consults, and when there are options like child psych and when outpatient therapy training begins.

I can't forget to make my biggest complaint of all about psychiatry--the use of subjective, seemingly (to me) pointless suicide risk assessment checklists which from what I can tell do nothing but lessen the anxiety of psychiatrists that they will get sued when their patient they d/c'd from the ER goes out and kills themselves. For example, I am required to ask all my patients whether they have a gun at home (and because nobody will intelligently tell me when or why or whom to ask, I ask them all, including the stretcher-bound demented elderly). It's dumbed down to the point of insanity! Because even if the patient doesn't have a gun, they could easily go out and buy one in my state. I have also never seen a clinical decision be made based on this question. I'm not saying this question should NEVER be asked, just that requiring it be checked off on a boilerplate form is one of the irritations of psychiatry. It's totally obvious that there are legal (as opposed to statistically proven scientific) powers operating behind these forms, and also I think it stems from a desire to create "objectivity" out of our inherently not-objective specialty. I guess this is our version of defensive medicine, but it is very irritating. The notes I write for medicine are so much shorter and less bogged down with checklists.

Oh, and while I'm at it, one-size-fits all approaches to pain medication and sleep medications... I.e. no on one on the psych floor can get ambien...

One thing I will say for psych is that psychopharmacology is very interesting to learn. Our meds are pretty intimidating and daunting to the uninitiated, and it's gratifying to learn about them. So is treating EPS, NMS; and delirium and dementia are interesting.
 
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I am seeing a C/L or child fellowship in your future!

A lot of what you say are exactly the aspects of the field I am nervous about...I would have similar frustration. We'll see what happens in the match for me (#1 program psych, #2 IM.)
 
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The one in books is very exciting--you have Charles Bonnet, Capgras Syndrome and all, but that never, ever, ever happens in the real life of a resident.

Not to entirely miss the point of your post, but I've had about 3 Capgras, a Cotard, and two "almost Bonnets" in the past six months, not including the bona fide Bonnet I had as an intern. These things totally exist, and they are very cool.

That said, that was a fabulous rant-of-a-psych-intern, and you should save it in a word document. Because next year, you will feel all those things times 10! And then supposedly third year comes and it all gets better ;). We'll see.
 
If you do get a positive RPR, well, off goes your patient to neuro. We could make a good case for why we need training in LPs, and bring a few procedures into our realm, but not many people in psychiatry seem to want to, which I think is sad. Our training in reading MRIs and CTs isn't what it should be if you ask me.

I couldn't disagree more. A significant number of people(many very good candidates btw) go into psych because they simply want nothing to do with procedures such as lp's, lines, etc......for a number of reasons.

since these basic procedures already overlap with pretty much every field(ie many in a real medicine prelim year is going to get signed off on lp's, paracentesis, thoracentesis, etc), whats the point? So we can do 5-10% as many lp's as neurology, medicine, em, peds, etc?

As for altered pts who are probably psych patients but still need an LP to rule other things out, how hard is it to plan on admitting them to psych and then have(depending on the institution) medicine or neuro or whatever come by on a quick consult and tap them(then have them follow up the results), then keep them on psych? Doesn't seem like an incredible in terms of the way things are done now.
 
Back to my complaint about the lack of diagnostic complexity--even when uncertainty is justified it is not even particularly interesting, because it's almost always something that overlaps with mania or anxiety--i.e. activated catatonia (or whatever that term is) or pschomotor activated depression. If you ARE debating about a diagnosis in psychiatry, it's the SAME debate you had last week about a different patient. The differential diagnoses in psychiatry is hopelessly small, I'm afraid to say.

im curious....these concerns...did they just pop up during your pgy-1 year? or during med school? how many psych electives did you do in med school?
 
Because next year, you will feel all those things times 10! And then supposedly third year comes and it all gets better ;). We'll see.

Why does it get better 3rd year? Adjusted expectations, realization of a broader truth, different work setting . . . ?
 
Why does it get better 3rd year? Adjusted expectations, realization of a broader truth, different work setting . . . ?

I am told that in third year some of my patients will be stable enough that they do not have to be locked into a psychiatric hospital. This is just a rumor, though. I will believe it when I see it.
 
And then supposedly third year comes and it all gets better . We'll see.

I'm sure this varies between programs, but in my own program, as well as several others, the amount of hospital duty required significantly drops. My 3rd and 4th year rotations were mostly outpatient.

In outpatient, it's very difficult to give residents scutwork. Scutwork usually happens in the hospital. In the 9-5 setting of outpatient, you're seeing patients in the same manner the attending would, 1-to-1, and most of those patients have a GAF >50, otherwise they most likely be in inpatient. I guess the worst thing an attending could do to you is give you the very difficult patients, but that IMHO is not such a bad thing given that a resident is still in training and needs to be able to tackle the hard stuff before they graduate.

Be honest, I was actually wanting more hospital work because I thought outpatient was too relaxed.

I had 3 outpatient locations. 1-the inner city where most of my patients were referred right after discharge from inpatient. Very few of them showed up. (No, I don't think it was me. They didn't even show up for their initial intake interview. Most of the people referred right after their inpatient stay never got follow up treatment. That was the trend for that office for several years). 2-a surburban area clinic. My patients had about a 90% attendance rate and 3-an outpatient child clinic.

The #1 location was the worst. I sat there twiddling my thumbs with nothing to do for hours. I was dying of boredom and would've rather been in the ER than there any day.
 
Not to entirely miss the point of your post, but I've had about 3 Capgras, a Cotard, and two "almost Bonnets" in the past six months, not including the bona fide Bonnet I had as an intern. These things totally exist, and they are very cool.

No, I definitely know that they exist--but the problem is, they don't come in as discreet cases that you might work up ala, say, glaucoma or a strange rare dermatological infection transported from overseas. Psych illnesses seem to always spill all over the place and affect the entire mental system all at once. I have yet to meet a psych patient without a comorbidity which clouds the picture. (When a case of pure arachnaphobia walks in my door, and gets the respect it deserves, and some treatment, and presented at a case conference and maybe even an M&M rounds about why the patient's diagnosis was delayed so long--that is the day I will cheer for psych.) Capgras is great, but the patient almost by definition has a larger psychotic illness at the same time, and so it's the larger illness that gets treated, the same thing I am treating for my 8 other inpatients. And I'm pretty sure I will never see a poltergeist or those really weird psych illnesses that are actually in the German and French books, or even an impressive pseudocyesis complete with hyperemesis gravidum. What I will see is similar to the following, where today on my way out of neuro clinic I walked by an obvious psych patient wrestling with security: "I'm going to kill myself you people and I HAVE SSI!!!" I just thought "I'm sure glad someone else is handling this." (I'm by no way saying I was glad to be in neuro clinic, mind you.)

A bona fide Bonnet case, that I will give you. That could be discreet and real and straight out of the textbook. Here is my only problem. I feel like as psych people we do not treat our rare cases with the same honor surgery people do. When I was on surgery in med school and a Whipple or a serious GSW came up, we fought over it. It was hard even to get a look at all the exciting veins and arteries because so many students and residents would all be peering in at the same time. A couple months ago a possible case of Charles Bonnet came into our psych ER. I felt like I was the only person who wanted to drop everything else and run to that case! Psych just does not orbit around rare or fascinating cases. We orbit around "does this person have a gun at home? Did you ask how much sleep they get? Did you get collateral from every single relative and friend? Did you document this collateral in the aforementioned template form?" Partly I'm just whining but we orbit around covering our arses!

Oh, and then there are the times where we need to sedate people. Once in the ER we needed to sedate a delirious person so she could get a head CT. All we had to use was haldol. This is ridiculous. If you called anesthesia, they would have anesthetized her with--I don't know--propofol? If you call psych, we will haldolize her. We are doing the same thing but we used our limited little arsenal of PO meds. I really wish we got more training in more meds, and in IV meds since we are consulted for ICU and medical inpatients, and many psych meds come in IV form, we just aren't trained in how/when to use them (at least I haven't been). Then WHO USES these IV forms of psych meds???

That case turned out not to be pure Charles Bonnet. Of course...

Ahhhh, I'm just whining, of course. If I was in some other field, I'd be whining about that. I am a few weeks into neuro and I have strong words for them too.
 
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im curious....these concerns...did they just pop up during your pgy-1 year? or during med school? how many psych electives did you do in med school?

I did a lot of psych in med school. The difference is that it was interspersed with other requirements. I will say that if the topic of this thread was "what are the things you love about psych," I'd be able to answer that too. I'm just answering honestly. I bet if you read other specialty threads you will find way more disparaging answers about those fields. I'm trying to stir up some negativity around here because generally there is way too much happiness in psych! hee hee

Oh and I understand that people have different interests and some people choose psych for its lack of procedures. Well to each his own of course.
 
And I'm pretty sure I will never see a poltergeist or those really weird psych illnesses that are actually in the German and French books, or even an impressive pseudocyesis complete with hyperemesis gravidum.

Do a CL fellowship at a major academic referral center and you will see all of this and more.

In CL, we pay the bills with the garden variety suicide attempts, deliria, and medically ill depressed, but we live for the zebras (and occasional unicorns) that come trotting through the doors.
 
Back to my complaint about the lack of diagnostic complexity--even when uncertainty is justified it is not even particularly interesting, because it's almost always something that overlaps with mania or anxiety--i.e. activated catatonia (or whatever that term is) or pschomotor activated depression. If you ARE debating about a diagnosis in psychiatry, it's the SAME debate you had last week about a different patient. The differential diagnoses in psychiatry is hopelessly small, I'm afraid to say. The one in books is very exciting--you have Charles Bonnet, Capgras Syndrome and all, but that never, ever, ever happens in the real life of a resident. Again, psych patients are poor historians plagued by comorbidities and no one ever walks in clearly endorsing textbook symptoms of a rare or discreet psych disease. It seems to me that essentially we end up treating symptoms (of which I can only think of four that we really even treat: depression, mania, psychosis, anxiety; unless you count EPS sx) and often leave it at that. (However there's also delirium/dementia, which is a different game. Those are not boring. I am also not including child psych.) .
There is no field in medicine with greater diagnostic uncertainty than psychiatry - partially, due to our diagnostic system; partially, due to the inherent subjectivity in our assessment; and partially due to temporal variation of the symptoms. The differential diagnosis in psychiatry is actually quite broad and exciting - if you are not overworked to the point of not caring, which may well be the case. You are right that we are limited to treating symptoms, though - hence, the "differential" remains for many a mostly academic exercise.
 
There is no field in medicine with greater diagnostic uncertainty than psychiatry - partially, due to our diagnostic system; partially, due to the inherent subjectivity in our assessment; and partially due to temporal variation of the symptoms. The differential diagnosis in psychiatry is actually quite broad and exciting - if you are not overworked to the point of not caring, which may well be the case. You are right that we are limited to treating symptoms, though - hence, the "differential" remains for many a mostly academic exercise.

so does the satisfaction of "treating symptoms" (that is, witnessing patient improvement) come often enough to outweigh the frustrations of diagnostic ambiguity?
 
Do a CL fellowship at a major academic referral center and you will see all of this and more.

In CL, we pay the bills with the garden variety suicide attempts, deliria, and medically ill depressed, but we live for the zebras (and occasional unicorns) that come trotting through the doors.

how often do the zebras come?
 
Do a CL fellowship at a major academic referral center and you will see all of this and more.

In CL, we pay the bills with the garden variety suicide attempts, deliria, and medically ill depressed, but we live for the zebras (and occasional unicorns) that come trotting through the doors.

I loved my C&L rotation! That's what I want to do!
 
Thank you all for your comments! When I said that I feel most comfortable in psychiatry, I mean that I enjoyed the psych rotation more than I have any other. I mean that I feel comfortable with the illnesses that we're asked to treat and with my intellectual interest in the subject matter. I feel that it meets most of my criteria from what I want in my medical career. And I really found the psych "H&P" very satisfying, too.
 
so does the satisfaction of "treating symptoms" (that is, witnessing patient improvement) come often enough to outweigh the frustrations of diagnostic ambiguity?

I know a lot of people in medicine absolutely abhor uncertainty, but for me the diagnostic ambiguity is a positive, not a negative. I enjoy relying on my own abilities to think and put the puzzle pieces together. If psych diagnoses could be made by sending off some blood or getting imaging I think it'd be much less interesting and challenging.
 
Money, money, money, money.

You could expect to make at least $50-100,000/year more doing emergency medicine.

I also was torn between EM/IM, and Psych. I like them all for very different reasons. Ultimately, I think I would get burned out in the ED a lot faster (I gave myself 5yrs) because of the crazy schedule, and just some of the horrible stuff you have to deal with (dead babies, etc). I'm into my PGY1 year and glad I chose psych.
 
Depends on where you work.

Small community hospital - very, very rarely

Major academic referral center (the type of place where zebras get flown to) - often enough to keep you interested

The zebras are pretty interesting when you catch them, but they often involve referral to a neurologist in the end.

The exciting part of psychiatry, in my mind, is the interpersonal component. It's the everyday, mundane details of people's lives - the things that other doctors (especially EM doctors) roll their eyes at - that are the substance of an interesting case. If you find yourself rolling your eyes a lot when your patients (on any service) talk about their family, relationships or work, then perhaps psychiatry is not for you.
 
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The zebras are pretty interesting when you catch them, but they often involve referral to a neurologist in the end.

The exciting part of psychiatry, in my mind, is the interpersonal component. It's the everyday, mundane details of people's lives - the things that other doctors (especially EM doctors) roll their eyes at - that are the substance of an interesting case. If you find yourself rolling your eyes a lot when your patients (on any service) talk about their family, relationships or work, then perhaps psychiatry is not for you.

I felt the same way, and enjoyed that aspect of my psych rotations.

Interestingly though, I was frequently annoyed with it when I was on EM! After a week or so, I could feel my frustration level rising inside every time I'd ask a patient a question and they wouldn't just give me a straightforward, concise answer.

So I like it when I have time for it I guess.
 
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I felt the same way, and enjoyed that aspect of my psych rotations.

Interestingly though, I was frequently annoyed with it when I was on EM! After a week or so, I could feel my frustration level rising inside every time I'd ask a patient a question and they wouldn't just give me a straightforward, concise answer.

So I like it when I have time for it I guess.

Very true. Actually, now that I think back, I remember doubting my decision to choose psychiatry when I was an intern working on my EM rotation and caring little to none about these things, wanting to simply triage the person and get on with it. It is very different when you have time, i.e. when you are a psychiatrist. So, perhaps that was too strong of a suggestion that I made.
 
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I think it is normal really. We are finite resources and when you are on other specialties you only concerned with that issue, and whether we like it or not that is an upper limit to how much time we can spend with one patient to solve that specific issue. Most of the time family, work, pets, etc. are non-contributory to the problem and are a waste of time. To do the job you have to be effecient at triaging what the patient tells us.

The sweet thing about psych, is that is our job. Their issues and stories are our concern. Peripheral neuropathy not so much, unless it is so painful that it is making them suicidal...
 
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No procedures.

Limited opportunity to do medical stuff. I get screamed at every now and then for wanting to handle general medical issues. As always, my argument is that its at least 10000x more appropriate for a psychiatrist to handle HTN or DM2 or basic infections than it is for a medicine doctor to use psych meds.

Having to fight with the patient about their well-intentioned but ultimately wrong non-psych doctors re: pain, fibromyalgia, IBS.

Have you considered moonlighting at a DM2 Clinic or similar are where your psych background would be considered a real asset?
 
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I can't forget to make my biggest complaint of all about psychiatry--the use of subjective, seemingly (to me) pointless suicide risk assessment checklists which from what I can tell do nothing but lessen the anxiety of psychiatrists that they will get sued when their patient they d/c'd from the ER goes out and kills themselves.

I just gave talk on this topic today....as psychology/behavioral health seems to be stuck with the paperwork. Sadly we have plenty of objective data showing the poor efficacy of many of the assessments and "no harm" interventions....yet they still are being required. There is little to no legal protection either, which makes the process that much more pointless....but I digress.
 
Have you considered moonlighting at a DM2 Clinic or similar are where your psych background would be considered a real asset?

Long-term plans pretty much revolve around me creating a 'dual-diagnosis' niche of sorts. Neuromusculoskeletal disorders as well as obesity-related disorders.
 
So, I'm a 3rd year medical student and I've decided to go into Psychiatry. My other consideration was EM. I just feel the most comfortable in Psych.

My question to you all is: Why shouldn't I choose psychiatry? What are the aspects of psych practice that make you regret your choice?

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Have you ever seen that humor algorithm on how to choose a medical specialty? The first branch is choosing whether the medical student is "crazy" or "sane". And then if you pick "crazy", you choose whether your attention span is "non-existent" or "significant." "Non-existent" goes to emergency and "significant" goes to psychiatry. So I guess we already know you're crazy, now how good is your attention span? ;)

Not very scientific and hardly accurate, but I got a good laugh out of it when I first saw it.
 
excuse me for my ''seems to be'' stupid question, but, why is psy considered low income not prestigious speciality? As I know (and i might be wrong because Im not in US) private psychotherapists/analysts earn quite well?
 
I will be honest. The personality disorder pathology I thought was so fascinating to read about in medical school (and to which I was exposed breifly on a very interesting elective) gets extremely tiresome when you are exposed to it in, essentially, an abusive manner by patients who you pretty much realize will never improve, will continue to present to the ER seeking admission for dubious reasons, and unlike medical patients, can't be treated in some straightforward discreet way.

For example, there is no treatment at all for antisocial PD. We actually run from that dx. Now can you imagine oncologists running from an untreatable cancer patient? No, they bring in palliative care. There is no palliative care for untreatable PDs. All we can do is behold the pathology. Sometimes, especially when you are the intern on call at 3 am in the ER it is horrible. You will be treated quite badly by these patients, and not be able to offer any treatment, and you'll see no hope of things getting better for you or for them. (Well, at least not until you finish residency and don't have to do call.) Same for substance abuse. (Although at least there there is some treatment.)

And psych diagnoses are vague. We have a diasnostic and STATISTICAL manual for a reason. Unless you suspect neurosyphillis or hyper/hypothyroidism or huntingtons, you can't exactly send blood off to the lab and get a result back confirming your hunch. When you do make a diagnosis--great. But some other doctor is going to botch it by diagnosing your very same patient with the Schizophrenia-Bipolar-Schizoaffective trifeca. (Indeed witness the number of people who walk around labeled with all three! Disheartening to say the least.)

If you do get a positive RPR, well, off goes your patient to neuro. We could make a good case for why we need training in LPs, and bring a few procedures into our realm, but not many people in psychiatry seem to want to, which I think is sad. Our training in reading MRIs and CTs isn't what it should be if you ask me. And there are no equations, formulae or famous triads in psych. I personally wish psychiatry would diversify a bit. Oh, and diseases have boring names like "X disorder" rather than being named after people who discovered them. And there aren't new diseases being discovered every day like there are in some fields. Instead, apparently, diseases actually go away in psychiatry from time to time (with each new revision of the DSM)!

The patients are poor historians, almost by definition, and that can make diagnosis hard too. You have to get used to that.

Ok, well you asked what things people don't like about psych, so those are my thoughts! Keep in mind it's winter of my intern year... and I've done a LOT of call.

Truly great post.
 
My biggest reservation about Psych, even more so than the personal safety bit, is that I know treating patients will seem more depressing to me than interesting most of the time. Still, there is no specialty better suited to me.
 
There is no field in medicine with greater diagnostic uncertainty than psychiatry - partially, due to our diagnostic system; partially, due to the inherent subjectivity in our assessment; and partially due to temporal variation of the symptoms. The differential diagnosis in psychiatry is actually quite broad and exciting - if you are not overworked to the point of not caring, which may well be the case. You are right that we are limited to treating symptoms, though - hence, the "differential" remains for many a mostly academic exercise.

This is a very good point. I was oversimplifying things earlier. Also I was ranting which is why I was oversimplifying... I would say to anybody who is choosing a field--as a resident you will get frustrated with aspects of your field at different stages. I can't speak for how it is when you are farther along, as an attending for example. But psych is no different (at least in my experience) than any other field--it too has its frustrations. We seem to be lucky that most people claim to find themselves relatively happy, however!

And it's true, there's a lot of ambiguity with the patients we see, and often what's wrong could be one of several things. Bipolar overlaps with both depression and schizophrenia, for example. Eating disorder patients and substance abuse patients will not always tell you the truth, so you can't just know what's going on there. Actually there is a lot in psychiatry where you can't be sure. I think the thing I was trying to get at is that when a patient comes in, we pretty rarely make long lists of things it could be. I guess there must be times where that happens, but my view right now is biased towards adult inner city inpatient, where it's usually psychotic, mood, personality disorder, or substance abuse. The history and mental status exam reveal almost everything. Our job is not really to rack our brains to expand our differential and then systematically narrow it down. If a psychotic patient doesn't get better, then unless we suspect something non-psychiatric, it's not like we're going to reinvent the wheel in terms of rediagnosing this patient. We'll try different meds, try things that will improve compliance, send the ACT team out. There are patients like this in other fields too, but I think the difference is that this is the MAJOR challenge in psych. (I can't speak much for outpatients or higher functioning patients, but I think some parallel must apply.)

I don't think anyone will be surprised by this. I'm just pointing it out as something that becomes more evident the farther you go in training (at least the farther into intern year!). I think the challenge of psychiatry is in the treatment--and a big part of the challenge in the treatment is in the fact that a) patients don't take their meds and b) the meds are not perfect. Therapy training doesn't start at most programs in intern year, so I can't speak too much to that. I will say it takes a long time to learn if my less than stellar results at curing inpatients with supportive psychotherapy thus far are any indication!

Also, as others have said, the interpersonal aspects of psychiatry are important. Hmmm, I am not sure what this means exactly... But as for me, I like observing behavior and trying to figure out why people do things. I think what is really interesting is trying to formulate the patient's story into a diagnostic framework and think of a treatment. Sometimes the same themes come up with different patients, and you will be hearing similar "dramas" (or types of delusions) over and over. One day you may be very interested, but another day less so--what keeps it interesting is to have a framework for all this, IMHO.

Also, I probably was oversimplifying other fields by comparison. For example, medical problems are not very often "discreet" either. Take your typical "60 y/o w a hx of DMII, HTN, CAD, HLD, CHF, OSA, OA..." (Now OTOH I saw a case of carpal tunnel in neuro clinic recently--there's something nice and treatable on its own!)
 
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