WHY OH WHY DO people apply to OVER 20 schools?

[BushBaby]

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Originally posted by hongspruce
You increase your chances for acceptance with every school you apply to.

Not true. If I had a 25mcat, and a 3.7 gpa I will not increase my chances of acceptance by applying to UCLA, DUKE, SUNY-STONYBROOK, NYU...etc...I guarantee you that much.

You know yourself, you know your stats, step it up.

 

[KarateGirl]

You have to do what's best for you, and what's going to allow you to sleep at night with no regrets.

Once I send out the Albert Einstein app I'll have applied to 21 schools. Of course, if I get into one of my top choices early on, it will be easy to look back and say, "Damn, I didn't need to apply to so many." But I can't know that now, and I'd rather pay extra for the peace of mind. All of this money is coming out of my own pocket, and it's put me farther into the financial hole I started out in, but I wouldn't do it any other way.

Ever since college, I've heard story after story about people with great apps who didn't get in anywhere, and people with less-than-ideal stats who got into schools way beyond their supposed range. You just never know. I think it's presumptuous to believe that you really know exactly where you can get in. People who apply to too few schools often get burned--those who apply to too many overpay, but which of those people will be going to med school next year?

There are a couple of reasons why to me it's worth the extra $$. For one, I could see the adcoms going either way with my app. I'm a post-bac, 30 years old, with a 3.2 undergrad GPA from Hopkins, but a 3.99 post-bac science GPA. I don't have tons of volunteer work on my app, mostly because I've spent all my time working and going to school. My MCAT is a 33, but I got a 9 in PS. And I have a really good committee LoR. To me, it's a mixed bag. And even if I called each school and asked them what my chances are, that's still not going to tell me whether I will get in there or not.

Also, I can't possibly decide whether or not I would like a school until I go there. To me, the atmosphere and environment are very important. I probably would like to stay in the NE, so I limited my choices geographically. (I did apply to one CA school, though.) When I made my list of NE schools, I tried to narrow it down, and every time I'd think, how do I know I don't want to go there? So I applied to all of them. To me, it makes sense. I would absolutely rather apply to too many than too few. In fact, I've often wondered the opposite--why would someone committed to becoming a doctor only apply to a half dozen schools or less?

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by KarateGirl
why would someone committed to becoming a doctor only apply to a half dozen schools or less?

Not sure what commitment has to do with anything. Applying to a million schools is all about money, if you got no $$ I am sure you won't be applying to 20 schools. Never heard of anybody taking a loan to apply to med school. Once again, I try not to use little thing to reflect your anyone's dedication/commitment/apptitude to becoming a doctor....

But to you all with 20+ applications, good luck to you all. And when you do get into your chosen schools, please become a member of the admissions committee and take it easy on the next chap with similar stats who is also trying to get ahead in the med school game, so they won't feel the need to apply to 40 schools.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by exmike
I'll give you a simple reason. My SciGPA was 3.01

Exmike,

I hate to call you out, but I've been wondering for a along time now why you applied to all those schools.

Your credentials are by far among the BEST I've seen on SDN. Undergrad GPA 3.1? You did go to Hopkins and look how well you've redeemed yourself in graduate school with 2 Master's degrees. It appears that your're an Ohio resident right? You HAD to know you'd get in at least one school there.

I guess I get your point about wanting to make sure you get in, but I really think 10 would have done it for you( excluding the UC's).

 

[KarateGirl]

Originally posted by BushBaby
Not sure what commitment has to do with anything. Applying to a million schools is all about money, if you got no $$ I am sure you won't be applying to 20 schools. Never heard of anybody taking a loan to apply to med school. Once again, I try not to use little thing to reflect your anyone's dedication/commitment/apptitude to becoming a doctor....

It's really not a little thing, in my book. From an objective viewpoint, if you see someone who only applies to a few schools, with the attitude, "If I don't get into one of these schools, then I don't want to go at all", versus someone who applies to 20 schools, with the attitude, "I will go to any medical school that takes me", which person wants to be a doctor more?

I almost had to take out a loan to pay for my applications. I guess you could consider my credit card debt from paying online fees a loan. Maybe that's more common for post-bacs since they usually don't have parental help, I don't know. I don't understand why people don't get that it's an investment in your future?

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
Exmike,

I hate to call you out, but I've been wondering for a along time now why you applied to all those schools.

Your credentials are by far among the BEST I've seen on SDN. Undergrad GPA 3.1? You did go to Hopkins and look how well you've redeemed yourself in graduate school with 2 Master's degrees. It appears that your're an Ohio resident right? You HAD to know you'd get in at least one school there.

I guess I get your point about wanting to make sure you get in, but I really think 10 would have done it for you( excluding the UC's).

Actually, I'm a CA resident, which makes the ohio acceptances seem really odd. 😕

path, I think i mentioned it in another thread, but seriously noone could give me a very good idea of what to do with my applications. I really had no idea where I stood, and my MCAT was about to expire, so I figured the most prudent thing to do would be to go all out.

Of course, If id had found SDN earlier in my cycle, I probably would have trimmed at least 15 schools or more off my list.

If I was an Ohio resident, I think I wouldve applied to less than 20 schools for SURE.

In any case, Im flattered you feel I have good credentials. Where were you when I was picking schools?!?!

 

[hapkidochic]

i have good stats and ECs yet i applied to 20+ schools. Here's why: I read through the MSAR and looked at websites and happened to find 20+ schools that i thought i could be happy at. This process is as much a way for adcoms to find students that will best fit their schools as it is for us to find a school that is the best fit for us. Of the schools that i applied to, there were only a handful that i really really liked on paper. But after interviewing, some of those schools that i liked a lot on paper, really didn't impress me much in person. And many that i only somewhat liked on paper, i ended up loving after interviewing. We all want to end up somewhere where we're truly happy and that fits our personalities and learning styles best, and i think if you don't take the chance to apply to many schools, you might be misssing out on something. While this was the main reason for my 20+ apps, of course there are other reasons that compelled me to apply to so many, mainly the crapshoot nature of the process and the fact that i'm a CA resident and our state schools cannot be relied on as safety schools.

 

[jlee9531]

if i had applied to only 10-15 schools i doubt i would have been accepted.

its only natural that i would have applied to all the MD schools in california since that is where i want to stay, but those are extremely competitive. thats about 8 schools, leaving me 7 schools over the country to get accepted to? especially with my lower than average stats theres no way i would ever gamble on something like this. i might have never applied to msu because of their instate policies and tuition, but i did anyway because i wanted to increase my chances of acceptance and that was the first school that gave me an opportunity.

does applying to 40+ schools suck and drain money that i dont have? yes of course.
do i regret it? no way. in a process where over half of us won't get in anywhere i am grateful i did what i had to do.

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by KarateGirl
It's really not a little thing, in my book. From an objective viewpoint, if you see someone who only applies to a few schools, with the attitude, "If I don't get into one of these schools, then I don't want to go at all", versus someone who applies to 20 schools, with the attitude, "I will go to any medical school that takes me", which person wants to be a doctor more?

I almost had to take out a loan to pay for my applications. I guess you could consider my credit card debt from paying online fees a loan. Maybe that's more common for post-bacs since they usually don't have parental help, I don't know. I don't understand why people don't get that it's an investment in your future?

Well aren't we Mr/Ms Assumptions....what gave you the idea that someone who only applies to a few schools, with the attitude, "If I don't get into one of these schools, then I don't want to go at all", ?

I understand the investing in your future part but the rest, I don't get. You don't need to apply to 20+ to get into medical school, what you need to do is pick out options and place your bets. Nothing is guaranteed and applying to 20 doesn't guarantee you an acceptance as many students do it and not all get accepted (despite SDN stats). The same school that will accept you if u had 40 applications is the same school that would have accepted you if you had included them in your 5 applications. The questions is how do you know WHICH school this is? well, we don't and that's where you either get really friendly and start chitchatting with deans or just appy to 40 and see what happens.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by KarateGirl
It's really not a little thing, in my book. From an objective viewpoint, if you see someone who only applies to a few schools, with the attitude, "If I don't get into one of these schools, then I don't want to go at all",

Sometimes, applying to a limited number of schools has nothing to do with having this type of attitude. Most nontrads I know especially those with Significant Others and/or children, just can't (or won't) go to just ANY location for medical school. For example, my fiance' is a computer engineer. How many good paying jobs like these are in Greenville, North Carolina (ECU), a school which all but guarenteed me I'd get in?

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by BushBaby
The questions is how do you know WHICH school this is? well, we don't and that's where you either get really friendly and start chitchatting with deans or just appy to 40 and see what happens.

I've personally visited all the schools on my list and spoken to people in the admissions offices as well. This, plus I have carefully studied Interview feedback and mdapplicants.com. With all the information we have access to, it was very easy for me to choose my 5 schools.

 

[twinklz]

I rather resent the implication that just because I chose to apply to less than half a dozen schools, I don't want to be a doctor as much as someone who applied to 50. At two of the schools I felt like I had a 80+% of being accepted, and I added a few more schools just to be cautious.

I'm sure I could have gone to other schools and potentially have been happy there. But I chose the schools that (a) most[\b] accorded with what I wanted from a school and (b) I had a good chance of getting in to.

You can accuse me of being overly confident but not of not wanting to be a doctor.

 

[darkcity998]

Is the med school application process really a crapshoot?

I always hear about this from premed and med students, but when I talk to my advisor, professors and some on admisions committees, they say it's an exaggeration.

If you have average stats and MCAT scores, then there may be no need to apply to more than the average #, which is 11-14 schools (add more if you want more reach schools or you're CA). Just follow the basic rule, at least 2 schools with low stat requirements, 5-8 with similar stat requirements and 4-5 dream schools.

You should have a wide distribution of safeties (if there are any), reaches/wants and dream schools. Look at your whole application, how you want to convey your strengths and potential and have a strategy.

For me, it took me only 1 week of searching through school websites, MSAR, review.com, usnews profiles, all to get a sense of what type of student they look for. When you have a clear goal of what you want to get out of med school, choosing less than 20 schools is doable.

So it may not be a crapshoot depending on your stats. If you are below average, then it may be more of a crapshoot because you would have to push yourself through their screening for numbers. If MCAT is at least a 30, my advisor said that every school will read my application no matter what, true?

Then again, I'm still in the process. I don't have any acceptances (yet? 🙁 ), but had/have 7 interviews so far at all my "want" schools and 1 reach.

 

[bella_dottoressa]

I will be financing my applications on loans, to dispel the notion that everyone who applies to 20-25 schools is doing it on Daddy's dime.

 

[ocean11]

I think the SMART thing to do IS to apply to as many medical schools as you can..... I know plenty of people who applied to 20+ and only got into one or two. This process is partially a crapshoot and luck is definetly an important variable (who's reading your essay, their mood at the time, other applicants being reviewed that day etc etc etc...)

Granted if you have REALLY strong numbers, LOR's & great essays... and by numbers I mean a 3.8+ GPA and 35+ MCAT maybe then you can feel confident applying to 'only' a handfull of schools; however for the rest of us 'average' or 'slightly above average' applicants need to maximize our possiblity to get in to ANY school!

Think about the alternatives, you apply to 10, get rejected (worse case scenerio) and have to do the whole thing over again...... you'll be wasting MORE money in the future and MORE importantly you'll be seriously wasting your time (A WHOLE YEAR!!!!). So I think applying to 20+ schools...... although costing an extra grand (or more) may be a wise way to go.... think of it as 'insurance'

 

[....]

Please, no one listen to these people.
Apply liberaly or risk losing an acceptance you wish you had. Anyone with a gpa and MCAT under 3.8 35 who aplies to less than 10 schools does so at a great risk.

 

[Petitpois]

It may be considered a waste of money, but I was really glad that I applied to 20+ schools. I applied to a bunch of schools that I thought I could get into and liked and just as many "reach" schools. I ended up getting interviews at half of the schools that I thought were probably out of my league. If I had only applied to two or three pipe dream schools, I may have been unlucky enough to apply to the two or three that decided not to interview me. If you have borderline stats/ECs for schools like Harvard or Duke, I would say that it wouldn't hurt to apply if you have the $. In the long run, it could completely change the course of your life!

 

[CalBeE]

Hey I applied to 20+ schools...nothing wrong with it as long as one has the time to fill out all the secondary and the "resource" to pay for all those app fees 😛

 

[josehernandez94]

I haven't quite gotten through reading all the responses yet (there are quite a few), but there are two things I find puzzling:
1. Why does bushbaby care how many schools we apply to? It's like she has a complete sense of disdain for those of us who applied to 20 or more schools. I don't really see how the number of schools I apply to affects her in any tangible way.

2. Why does everyone feel that it's necessary to justify to her their reasons for applying to a large number of schools? People are actually defending their decisions and I just don't get it.

Anyway, a final note of wisdom that I'd like to pass along is actually to apply to as many schools as you can afford. The school that wound up being my number 1 choice (and to which I was accepted!) would not have made my cut list if I had chosen only to apply to 10 or 15 schools. At the time, I didn't know enough about this school and would have chosen other "reach" schools to include before applying there. There's no real way I could've gotten the info I did about the school until I actually interviewed up there (a website can only convey so much about the school's environment, student happiness, special, somewhat obscure opportunities/programs unique to that school, etc). Understandably, it was easier to apply to a wide range of schools since my parents paid for a substantial bulk of my application expenses, but at the same time, I didn't apply to every single school (just 20), which seemed to be the perfect number for me. I don't think applicants should try to set a limit for the number of schools to which they will apply based on one person's observations, but should instead decide for him/herself what a reasonable number is.

 

[Spitting Camel]

Originally posted by BushBaby
If you apply to a chagazillion schools and get a few acceptances, I bet if you had sat down (from the start) and carefully picked 10-15 schools you want to apply to, those schools that granted you acceptances would be on your 10-15 list...that's all. There exists the out of the blue cases where a school you never thought will accept did, but for those schools, you pick 3-4 ...NOT 15.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing... too bad it happens AFTER everything is said and done! Do you even realize that? I thought you were cool and generally a good person. I was even way happy when you got in, but now you're putting people down. Don't be that guy (girl, in your case)!

Also, 15 schools + 5 reach schools = 20 schools, you math wiz!

All I'm saying is, you know yourself and you can use that knowledge to be realistic and apply to 10-15 schools. Yeah yeah, sometimes we like to shoot for the stars and there is nothing wrong with adding 4-5 high end schools to the batch.

 

[craig_rt]

I understand wanting to hedge your bets and give yourelf the best chance of getting in, but...

If you are only an average student is it worth applying to the top schools? Are you really expecting to be accepted?

For the people that applied to 20 or more and were only accepted at one, if you were only able to aplly to 10 would that school have been on it?

People seem to be making the argumen that "I applied to 20 schools and only got in to 1. If I had applied to 19 then I would not have made it in anywhere."

I don't buy it. If you were limited to only being allowed to aplly to 10 then you would make sure that those 10 were the 10 most likely to accept you. (Maybe with 1 or 2 hopefulls and 1 or 2 just in case.)

Craig

 

[Spitting Camel]

I got accepted to a school that I almost didn't return a secondary to. I would be sitting here WITHOUT an acceptance had I not returned that 21st secondary! You guys don't know what you are talking about. All of a sudden it goes from crapshoot to a sure thing now that you guys are accepted? You have to be kidding me! Apply to as many schools as you want: You may have to go to school in boonyville, USA, but you will be in the US and you will be a doctor 1 year sooner than the reapplication process would allow. It's not your money, so butt out of it!

 

[Lux Aeterna]

One of the reasons I worked/took off this year was to make money to pay for my applications (about 20-22 secondaries sent...I've lost track at this point). I have a lower than average science gpa, but yet something in my heart told me that it wouldn't kill me to try for some reach schools.

I've been incredibly fortunate with some of the interviews and acceptances I have, and I honestly think that I'd rather know my chances at a reach school even if it ends in rejection than wonder... what if?

 

[lola]

i am very very glad i applied to 25 schools last year: 9 interviews, 6 waitlists (3 of which eventually became acceptances in may, june, july). if you don't have a state school to fall back on and have average numbers or a weakness on your application, you need to apply to approximately 20 schools or you are taking a big risk. i almost didn't apply to uci last year b/c i hadn't heard good things about the irvine area and didn't feel like taking biochem. i am very very glad i got my act together and applied, because i loved it when i visited and feel like i'm happier here than i would be at most other medical schools. you never know where you are going to get in and what schools you are going to like when you visit.
the application process does not make a lot of sense. i got rejected from nymc and vermont post-interview, yet ended up getting accepted at georgetown and uci (and waitlisted at pitt). i could have never predicted the way things would unfold before applying, thus i needed to apply to a lot of schools.

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by AlreadyInDebt
I thought you were cool and generally a good person. I was even way happy when you got in, but now you're putting people down. Don't be that guy (girl, in your case)!

Also, 15 schools + 5 reach schools = 20 schools, you math wiz!

Reading this makes me laugh....was I some god to you and now I'm NOT?

Dude, be happy for me, be sad for me...do whatever you wish. I am the same Bushbaby I was before I posted this thread...it's all good.
Whether you all applied to 3 schools and got or you applied to 30 and got in, I will still be happy for you.

Take a chill pill, it's really not that serious....relax, I'm really NOT the monster I try to be.

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by josehernandez94
:
1. Why does bushbaby care how many schools we apply to? It's like she has a complete sense of disdain for those of us who applied to 20 or more schools. I don't really see how the number of schools I apply to affects her in any tangible way.

2. Why does everyone feel that it's necessary to justify to her their reasons for applying to a large number of schools? People are actually defending their decisions and I just don't get it.

Answer-

1) Cause I am master of the free world and all must bow to me....problem with that?

2) Cause I am master of the free world and all must bow to me...problem with that?

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by craig_rt
I understand wanting to hedge your bets and give yourelf the best chance of getting in, but...

If you are only an average student is it worth applying to the top schools? Are you really expecting to be accepted?

For the people that applied to 20 or more and were only accepted at one, if you were only able to aplly to 10 would that school have been on it?

People seem to be making the argumen that "I applied to 20 schools and only got in to 1. If I had applied to 19 then I would not have made it in anywhere."

I don't buy it. If you were limited to only being allowed to aplly to 10 then you would make sure that those 10 were the 10 most likely to accept you. (Maybe with 1 or 2 hopefulls and 1 or 2 just in case.)

Craig

Ditto, what craig just said.

 

[leaf]

I realize everyone's situation is different and that people have different priorities, but here's why I applied to close to 20 schools (despite living in a state with good state school options). For one, I had a nontraditional application, with some good features but also some definite warts and flaws. Thus I felt it would be hard to predict where I'd get interviewed or accepted. And indeed, some of the schools where I got accepted had higher USNews ranks than some schools that didn't even invite me to do their secondaries. For another, I was applying to a lot of "reach" schools. I could have trimmed my list by applying mostly to places where I thought I had a decent chance of getting in, but at the cost of reducing my chances of going to a "dream" school. Third, I found that my opinions of schools changed a lot after interviews. I have to admit that the school I wound up attending is one that I'd initially thought I'd have very little interest in -- but it felt right on interview day, and I've never regretted coming here.

So basically, I feel that the admissions process is random and unpredictable, and the more schools you see, the better informed your decision will be. Besides, the risk of not getting in and having to reapply (and does it look bad to admissions committees if you have to say you've applied before?) may not be worth saving $1000 to $2000, not when you consider the overall cost of medical school, the availability of low-cost student loans, and the salary you'll probably make at the end. Of course it'll depend on whether your record is uneven, how much you want to go to a "reach" school, and where your personal cost vs. risk-of-not-getting-accepted tradeoff is.

(This decision-making approach may also be just me. I'm in the process of applying for residencies, and again I'm applying to more places than most people in my specialty. However, I'm finding that I really like a lot of the places I'd almost taken off my list, whereas some of the places I thought I'd love haven't impressed me as much. So for someone like me, who strongly prioritizes "fit" and who wants to have a lot of information before making a decision, applying widely may be a good move. After all, this decision will affect the next four years of my life and possibly where I settle down permanently, and I don't want to make this decision casually, even if I have to spend another $1000 to gather more information.)

 

[gioia]

1. There are are MUCH worse ways to spend your money. (Calculate the amount of wasted money spent on cheap restaraunt food, cheezy vehicle, luxuries you didn't need, clothes you didn't wear, and groceries that spoil etc...). It's called being nickel and dimed to death. Most Americans let money slip through their fingers on smaller purchases and complain about the big purchases, like health insurance.

2. Any kind of interview has variables. The pool of applicants is always changing, the 'flavor' of the institution, the goals of the institution, blahblahblah. We don't ever REALLY know and are only made better by trying (to agree with former posts).


3. Multiple interviews and secondaries can facilitate self discovery. Schools are MUCH DIFFERENT in person than on paper and for those who can't visit schools before they apply have the chance of getting an interview. There are themes, too, that thread through the process and I've met a number of people who really learned alot about their own personalities as a result. A self actualized physician is a good physician in my book.

 

[....]

Originally posted by craig_rt
If you are only an average student is it worth applying to the top schools? Are you really expecting to be accepted?

No, we are not EXPECTING to be accepted. But we aknowledge that the AVERAGES for high ranking schools are just that. If i offered you a game....lets say....I roll a dice if it lands on six i pay you 100 dollars....if it lands on 1-5 you pay me one dollar. you only get one roll. Do you expect to win? No, chances are youll lose. Are you a fool to play? Certianly not.

For the people that applied to 20 or more and were only accepted at one, if you were only able to aplly to 10 would that school have been on it?

nope, i applyed to 5 private schools that were in my numbers range. I havnt heard from 3, was accepted that the most prestigious of the group and declined an interview are the least prestigious. Had i had to choose one to not apply to it would have been the more prestigious one and i would be holding merely an interview at the lesser school.

People seem to be making the argumen that "I applied to 20 schools and only got in to 1. If I had applied to 19 then I would not have made it in anywhere."

No one is saying that. The chances that the one dropped school would have been the one to accept you, or the school of those who accepted you that you like the most, is slim. But it is a chance that i worth 100 bucks. Why not skip a month on your car insurance? Chances are very slim that you will get in an accident. Small chances of disaserous things are still weighty and deserve 100 bucks to be prevented. Its not rocket surgery.

I don't buy it. If you were limited to only being allowed to aplly to 10 then you would make sure that those 10 were the 10 most likely to accept you. (Maybe with 1 or 2 hopefulls and 1 or 2 just in case.)

Craig

Even that is wrong. If i have a 3.8 and a 35 the 10 schools most likely to accept me are still the worst 10 schools around. Its the people that simplify the proccess down too much that get either burn and dont get in or they end up at a school much less desirable.

 

[BlackstarNYC]

Great post hightrump.

 

[bigbaubdi]

If you have strong numbers/ECs, then chances are that you will get into medical school. Someone posted the acceptance rates of applicants by MCAT scores.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45362&highlight=statistics+MCAT

Here are the acceptance rates -

MCAT score of 38+ - 100%
MCAT Score of 34-38 - 81.0%
MCAT Score of 34+ - 82.7%
MCAT Score of 30-33 - 69.3%
MCAT Score of 30+ - 73.9%

I also made a few approximations based upon this data. There are about 35,000 applicants this year. Let us assume that 50% of applicants get in, leaving us with a pool of 17,500 accepted applicants. Of those 17,500, all of the 38+ MCAT scorers get in, 80% of the 34-38 MCAT scorers get in, and 73.9% of the 30-33 MCAT scorers get in.

This leaves us with 7894 acceptance slots and 21999 applicants, an overall acceptance rate of 35.9%, if your MCAT score is less than 30. I did a similar estimation for people with MCAT scores of less than 34 and I found that the overall acceptance rate was 45.3%.

The point of this exercise is that if your stats/ECs are not stellar, then your odds of getting into medical school are not that great. Therefore, it makes sense to try and apply to as many medical schools as possible to ensure that you get in.

I did one more approximation based on some simple probability calculations to determine the effects of applying to additional medical schools.

Let us assume that the average medical school accepts 10% of applicants. This means that you have a 90% chance of not getting accepted to a particular medical school. The probability of not getting accepted to n medical schools is therefore .9 ^ n. Alternatively, the probability of getting into at least one medical school is 1 - .9 ^ n

I ran this simulation under a variety of situations and here is what I found:

n = Number of Schools Applied to
p = Probability of Getting accepted into at least one school

Average Acceptance Rate of a Medical School = 10%
n = 5, p = 41.0%
n = 10, p = 65.1%
n = 15, p = 79.4%
n = 20, p = 87.8%
n = 25, p = 92.8%
n = 30, p = 95.8%
n = 40, p = 98.5%

I also ran this simulation under a number of different situations:

Average Acceptance Rate of a Medical School = 5%
n = 5, p = 22.6%
n = 10, p = 40.1%
n = 15, p = 53.7%
n = 20, p = 64.2%
n = 25, p = 72.3%
n = 30, p = 78.5%
n = 40, p = 87.2%

Average Acceptance Rate of a Medical School = 15%
n = 5, p = 55.6%
n = 10, p = 80.3%
n = 15, p = 91.3%
n = 20, p = 96.1%
n = 25, p = 98.3%

Average Acceptance Rate of a Medical School = 20%
n = 5, p = 67.2%
n = 10, p = 89.3%
n = 15, p = 96.5%
n = 20, p = 98.9%

Here are a few different combinations -

Assume that your probability of getting into a reach school is 5%, a mid level school is 10%, and a safety school is 15%.

Check out what happens with different combinations:

2 reach schools, 5 mid level schools, 3 safeties (total of 10 schools): p = 67.3%
4 reach schools, 10 mid level schools, 6 safeties (total of 20 schools): p = 89.3%

2 reach schools, 4 mid level schools, 4 safeties (total of 10 schools): p = 69.1%
2 reach schools, 9 mid level schools, 9 safeties (total of 20 schools): p = 91.9%

Obviously the acceptance rates to different medical schools vary considerably and all applicants are not equal. Applying to 20+ medical schools however can considerably improve your chances of getting in.

Take the situation in which an applicant has an average probability of getting accepted to a medical school of 5% (a reasonable approximation for a below average - average applicant). If he/she applied to only 10 schools, then he/she would only have a 40.1% probability of getting in. On the other hand, if he/she applies to 25 schools, then he/she would have a 72.3% chance of getting into med school. Would you pay an extra few thousand dollars to improve your chances of getting into medical school by that much?

I would.

 

[woolie]

I know I shouldn't post here, because I will just be sucked into the quagmire of "you can't win this argument ... ".

I am glad that I learned about applying to 30+/- schools frm SDN. It's much better in my mind to do one massive application year, and just give it your all, rather than be miserly about it and have to do it all over again. That said, I don't eat out much and I bring my lunch to work with me, etc - I am very careful with my money, with good reason.

It's a free country and I guess this debate is as reasonable as any other - but I am not sure why BBaby, you take such a lofty tone with those of us who felt it was the right thing for us to do. Why do you care what we do? Would your tone be very different if you were not holding your acceptance? Please be respectful to the rest of us ...

 

[Treg]

Kudos to bigbaubdi for trying to make a scientific argument. I think numbers resonate louder than personal impressions.

Also bigbaubdi-you have too much time on your hands!

 

[Tiki]

I've only applied to five schools, but I've had to pay for everything myself. Therefore, I didn't spend extra money on schools I felt I wouldn't get into. I think that my best chances are with my two state schools anyway, (and they also happen to be my first choice of where I would want to attend) so I didn't feel it necessary to add others.

Although, I have to say, that if I was rolling in the dough, I would have added more schools to the list. 😀

 

[bigbaubdi]

Originally posted by Treg
Also bigbaubdi-you have too much time on your hands!

Oh yeah... Nothing better to do than crunch numbers on SDN when you stay home from work b/c of some bizarre bronchial infection 🙂

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by woolie

but I am not sure why BBaby, you take such a lofty tone with those of us who felt it was the right thing for us to do. Why do you care what we do? Would your tone be very different if you were not holding your acceptance? Please be respectful to the rest of us ...

My tone would be the same regardless of my acceptances..why? Because I've been on this board for about or above three years as an "applicant" and it still boggles my mind each year when I see people apply to such high numbers of schools.

My first real application was to 8 schools...did I get in? NO. Did that make me go apply to 20 to increase my chances? NOPE. Infact, I applied to LESS schools this time around.

I am not taking any tone with anyone (at least no intentionally) but I know that you probably have in YOUR head, that since I have my acceptances I think I'm above thee or whatever it is that you are getting at. Point is, I've felt this way and continue to feel so. I have friends who apply to outrageous amount of schools, then call me to tell me how they haven't heard from school XYZ that is located in timbuktu and accepts only students of their alumni...I'm like WTF, why did you apply there to begin with? Just to cover ground?

Some people do their homework and do come up with 20+ schools that they might get into. I can see the sense in picking some (so called) high-tier, middle-tier, and lower-tier schools....but pick the jacket according to your size.

I guess the reason I don't see myself filling out 20 applications is because, as I mentioned before, I can't even think of 10+ schools that I would like to attend. My needs/wants in a school are soo specific that hardly 10 schools can meet them.

Don't you all go worrying yourselves though, I don't have a holier than thou attitude.
And what's wrong with me questioning why people apply tp 20+ schools? Why are you questioning my questions? Can a girl not post a thread asking something she is curious about? I'm not here to bite you...(and if any you are into that sorta "biting" thang PM me)

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by indo
why? mommy and daddy are paying for it and the only reason I'm even applying is so that they'll love me. I really want to be a teacher but I've already recieved the "teachers don't get paid very well" lecture and I guess I'm just looking for some approval from my father.

FINALLY...an honest answer KUDOS to you my future doc.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by BushBaby
And what's wrong with me questioning why people apply tp 20+ schools? Why are you questioning my questions? Can a girl not post a thread asking something she is curious about? I'm not here to bite you...(and if any you are into that sorta "biting" thang PM me)

There is a big difference between "WHY OH WHY DO people apply to OVER 20 schools?" which can be interpreted as condescending and "why do people apply to 20+ schools" which would be curiosity.

The title of your thread clearly exceeds curiosity, hence the strong responses.

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by exmike
There is a big difference between "WHY OH WHY DO people apply to OVER 20 schools?" which can be interpreted as condescending and "why do people apply to 20+ schools" which would be curiosity.

The title of your thread clearly exceeds curiosity, hence the strong responses.

Well....I apologize for my tone. I didn't mean to offend no one (at least not with this thread).

If it makes ya'll feel better we can have a "WHY OH WHY DOES BUSHBABY thinks it's better to apply to LESS than 10 schools?" thread. Or "WHEN OH WHEN DID BUSHBABY became an expert in medical school applications?"

About a "WHY OH WHY IS BUSHBABY so fine and sexy?" thread

 

[ocean11]

I think this thread is pretty pathetic.

FINE! so some of us applied to 5000 schools and some only to 1 WHO CARES?!?!?!? lets move on people.....

And for those that got in with only applying to 5 schools HURRAY for you.... that $700 will go up in smoke anyways.... whats $700 when you have a 250K debt anyways?!?!?

PEOPLE we're debating on 'nickles and dimes' now...

And for those that got accepted CONGRATULATIONS..... now lets move on....

 

[finnpipette]

Wow bushbay...3 years as an applicant, eh? That's great that your medical school has to be the perfect fit, but I think for the most of us, we're willing to settle and go to a school with a less than perfect fit because we all want to become doctors. 3 years...so let's say that you make 30k/year for 3 years. 90k...that's a lot of wasted time and money. I mean...if you graduated two years earlier...and came out making $120k/year...that's a lot more than the 20 applications, isn't it? But you have the luxury of spending three years applying...some of us need to hurry up and finish this med school thing to get on with marriage, our family, taking care of our families, working in our communities. What's another 10, what's another 30 applications? How much is your time worth?

 

[BushBaby]

Originally posted by finnpipette
Wow bushbay...3 years as an applicant, eh? That's great that your medical school has to be the perfect fit, but I think for the most of us, we're willing to settle and go to a school with a less than perfect fit because we all want to become doctors. 3 years...so let's say that you make 30k/year for 3 years. 90k...that's a lot of wasted time and money. I mean...if you graduated two years earlier...and came out making $120k/year...that's a lot more than the 20 applications, isn't it? But you have the luxury of spending three years applying...some of us need to hurry up and finish this med school thing to get on with marriage, our family, taking care of our families, working in our communities. What's another 10, what's another 30 applications? How much is you
or time worth?

Applying to med school more than Once is NOOOOOO luxury. You think I made a conscious decision to apply 2x? I took the mcat 3x, but applied twice (01 and 03).
I am still pissed about the money I wasted and I want ma money back!There should be a refund if a school doesn't give you at least an interview.
As I have gotten older, I don't really care about time too much. I met people in med school who are 35+ so time is no object as long as the brain juice is flowing and your doing sometime pleasure in between time to kill time.
I wanted to get in this time because I was tired of the process.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by bigbaubdi
The point of this exercise is that if your stats/ECs are not stellar, then your odds of getting into medical school are not that great.

I think if your stats AND EC's are not stellar, then the answer isn't applying to 30 schools, the answer is to improve your application BEFORE you apply.

I think that for many people who apply to medical school, their chosen occupation/major is "premed" instead of actually preparing for a "real" career. This may be the difference between the person who applies to 10 schools and the person that applies to 30.

Finally, I'm like Bushbaby in that I can only think of a few places where I'd like to study medicine. I'm fortunate to be happy enough in my life and career to not feel lost if I apply to less than 10 schools and I'm not accepted.

 

[Tezzie]

Originally posted by pathdr2b

Finally, I'm like Bushbaby in that I can only think of a few places where I'd like to study medicine. I'm fortunate to be happy enough in my life and career to not feel lost if I apply to less than 10 schools and I'm not accepted.

Sorry but how do you KNOW ?

See i had a competitive MCAT and a really good GPA and i still didn't KNOW. So i ended up applying to more than twenty schools and i went to all of my interviews.

I had seen Stanford and Hopkins med before and i had friends at Columbia, Cornell and Harvard and i still didn't know.

After being to so many interviews, seeing people and talking to them ... i still don't know. There are so many issues to take into account, some that i already knew (location) and others that i found out while interviewing (Emory was great, New Haven was worse than i expected, etc ).

I am glad that some people want to apply to less than 10 schools and feel comfortable with their choice. My choice was to apply to the schools that i would like to see. After that depending on how much i liked them, felt comfortable, expect on how well i would fit with the students - i will make my decisions.

If i had gone just by my stats and ECs, i could have just applied to the top5 or top 10 USNews schools and hoped that i would be accepted to one of them (which i have been anyway). But that would mean that i would miss part of the process and the whole experience was so great (although stressful, demanding and very expensive).

 

[jedirampage]

There are many reasons why people apply to 20+ med schools. My fiancee and I applied to 26 each (the same of course) because we want to be at least inthe same city for med school. And we are paying for the whole process ourselves. Sure, it's not easy, but when you really want something you have to make sacrifices in order to get there.

Bushbaby,
You cannot determine if you are going to get into a particular school just by researching. I know many people with good stats that have been outright rejected pre-interview at schools where candidates with lesser numbers were accepted. There are so many subjective factors that it is next to impossiple to gauge. Also, don't you find it a little funny that by the time you matriculate you will have applied to 20 med schools. Except you will have paid more money and spent more time doing so than others who did it all in one shot. But what it all comes down to is can you look back at the end and say that you have no regrets about hte way things turned out. If you can, then that's great. And the same goes for those of us who applied to many more schools. If you can live with it then who cares if you apply to 120 schools or just one.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Tezzie
Sorry but how do you KNOW ?

One way to be reasonably sure of your chances at a particular is the do what I suggested before in this thread: CALL THE SCHOOL AND SET UP AN "INTERVIEW" WITH SOMEONE ON THE ADMIN. COMMITTEE BEOFRE YOU APPLY TO SEE WHAT THEY SUGGEST YOU DO TO GET IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's called NETWORKING and if getting into medical school is important enough, you'll MAKLE the time to network BEFORE you apply!!! Besides, its a hellva lot cheaper than applying to 25 schools and filling out 25 secondarys.

Most nontrads I know (with kids/homes, over 30, ect) are extremely limited in their options for applying to medical school, yet they seem to enjoy would looks like a 100% aacceptance rate, of the people I know personally and through the various websites. Perhaps it's appealing to adcoms to see applicants that not only bring to the table expereinces in other fields, a "true" comitment to attending a certain school, but also the confidence it takes to place a "bet" and "win".

 

[Tezzie]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
One way to be reasonably sure of your chances at a particular is the do what I suggested before in this thread: CALL THE SCHOOL AND SET UP AN "INTERVIEW" WITH SOMEONE ON THE ADMIN. COMMITTEE BEOFRE YOU APPLY TO SEE WHAT THEY SUGGEST YOU DO TO GET IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't even know how to read. My original question was how do you know if a school is right for you or not. Not if you are going to get in or not.

It's called NETWORKING and if getting into medical school is important enough, you'll MAKLE the time to network BEFORE you apply!!! Besides, its a hellva lot cheaper than applying to 25 schools and filling out 25 secondarys.

Most nontrads I know (with kids/homes, over 30, ect) are extremely limited in their options for applying to medical school, yet they seem to enjoy would looks like a 100% aacceptance rate, of the people I know personally and through the various websites. Perhaps it's appealing to adcoms to see applicants that not only bring to the table expereinces in other fields, a "true" comitment to attending a certain school, but also the confidence it takes to place a "bet" and "win".

Networking? Are you completely insane? At some schools there are over 6k applicants. Do you think that just because you sent an email or because you talked to someone , they actually "know" you?

I was talking about how do you know you are going to be happy at the school, fit in, what makes the school different, how will the school help you reach your short term and longer term goals, etc.

Even if you do get to know what the school wants (as if we don't know what every school is looking for already), what makes you so sure that they are going to accept you? And where does that "true" commitment to attending a certain school come from when you haven't even seen it (unless you live in city X and want to go to school in city) ?

Congratulations, along with CJ2Doc you now hold the title of biggest tool on SDN.

 

[oldtimer]

Why oh why are we still debating this stupid topic? Anyone who applies to only a handful of schools probably has never been to Vegas. It's a crapshoot process and you increase your chances if you spread your risk around.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Tezzie
Networking? Do you think that just because you sent an email or because you talked to someone , they actually "know" you?

If you think an email and or one phone call is networking , then what you really need to do stop collecting the bulk of your income from your parents, get a real job with benefits, 401K, ect, then find out the hard way what REAL networking is all about. No wonder you're trying to get into medical school with the guarenteed job/income that comes with being a physician. You probably wouldn't last 1 year in the work force without an MD.

Originally posted by Tezzie
Congratulations, along with CJ2Doc you now hold the title of biggest tool on SDN.

Name calling? Ahhh, poor Boo Boo!!!!!!