Why Saving Kids Is BAD Business

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

SurfingDoctor

"Good news, everyone"
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
16,911
Reaction score
47,677
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)

This should work

It worked! Thank you!

Great video ... I know there are some community pediatric floors and PICU's out there, but definitely wish there were more, especially for caring for bread-and-butter things like RSV needing HFNC/CPAP/BiPAP, asthma exacerbations, DKA, etc. In the NICU, we were accepting tons of RSV kids from the community (sometimes intubated, sometimes not) because our PICU was full. And we were pretty much full too. Crazy times.

The thought of pediatric facilities closing down, especially relatively large/renowned ones like Tufts is crazy to me. But I guess caring for kids just doesn't pay
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It worked! Thank you!

Great video ... I know there are some community pediatric floors and PICU's out there, but definitely wish there were more, especially for caring for bread-and-butter things like RSV needing HFNC/CPAP/BiPAP, asthma exacerbations, DKA, etc. In the NICU, we were accepting tons of RSV kids from the community (sometimes intubated, sometimes not) because our PICU was full. And we were pretty much full too. Crazy times.

The thought of pediatric facilities closing down, especially relatively large/renowned ones like Tufts is crazy to me. But I guess caring for kids just doesn't pay
I guess its crazy times, but to some degree, it has always been this way. Now granted, where I trained was a larger institution (though at the time, the unit and faculty pool was smaller than my current institution), but I remember often going on diversion for bed capacity. In fact, the unit was a mix of private or shared rooms and pod beds (the latter types separated by temporary curtains). During various times during the winter seasons and especially during the H1N1 pandemic, we would often have the shared and pod bed, typical reserved for 2 patients, get 3 or even sometimes 4 patients (if they could physically fit) in those areas and go way past capacity. That was in addition to making the PACU a stepdown ICU for the post-surgical children. And this was over a decade age at this point. So the issues that existed back then continue to be an issue now. The acceleration of community hospitals closing down (which had a challenging time managing pediatrics anyway), as well as reductions in staff and staff experience, have exacerbated the problem though. But for many hospital systems, the juice isn't worth the squeeze unless it creates surgical volume.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The acceleration of community hospitals closing down (which had a challenging time managing pediatrics anyway), as well as reductions in staff and staff experience, have exacerbated the problem though. But for many hospital systems, the juice isn't worth the squeeze unless it creates surgical volume.

In my area of the country, this is what is most effecting us. Community hospitals have stopped admitting pediatric patients altogether. I believe this is multifactorial:
1. There is no money in it for the hospitals. Therefore pediatric beds / units have been closed altogether.
2. There has been a large change in hospital care and a move toward hospitalists - who mainly only care for adults. None of our local or rural FP's will take care of children in the hospital anymore. They have all dropped privileges when it comes to children. This has resulted in the two children's hospitals in my state being overrun with admissions that were previously cared for at outside facilities.

During the past 3 months, an already taxed system broke. The trickle down effect of having no PICU beds was beyond stressful on nurses and physicians who were already at a breaking point after Covid. And the hospital administrators were either clueless or purposely oblivious to the problem - not sure which would be worse. Just because you have the beds, it doesn't mean you have the nursing staff (who quit because you don't pay them enough for what they do). We had been taking care of critical children on our small general pediatric unit during the months of September to December - adding to the stress of the nursing staff - but there was nowhere to send those patients as all PICU beds in the upper midwest (and I assume the country) were full.

We need better reimbursement from Medicaid to fix the issue. Hospitals will not dedicate resources toward children if there is no money in it. It is either that or completely redoing the system with government run care - which I think would have its own drawbacks and would be near impossible to pass and install. Increasing Medicaid is at least feasible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
In my area of the country, this is what is most effecting us. Community hospitals have stopped admitting pediatric patients altogether. I believe this is multifactorial:
1. There is no money in it for the hospitals. Therefore pediatric beds / units have been closed altogether.
2. There has been a large change in hospital care and a move toward hospitalists - who mainly only care for adults. None of our local or rural FP's will take care of children in the hospital anymore. They have all dropped privileges when it comes to children. This has resulted in the two children's hospitals in my state being overrun with admissions that were previously cared for at outside facilities.

During the past 3 months, an already taxed system broke. The trickle down effect of having no PICU beds was beyond stressful on nurses and physicians who were already at a breaking point after Covid. And the hospital administrators were either clueless or purposely oblivious to the problem - not sure which would be worse. Just because you have the beds, it doesn't mean you have the nursing staff (who quit because you don't pay them enough for what they do). We had been taking care of critical children on our small general pediatric unit during the months of September to December - adding to the stress of the nursing staff - but there was nowhere to send those patients as all PICU beds in the upper midwest (and I assume the country) were full.

We need better reimbursement from Medicaid to fix the issue. Hospitals will not dedicate resources toward children if there is no money in it. It is either that or completely redoing the system with government run care - which I think would have its own drawbacks and would be near impossible to pass and install. Increasing Medicaid is at least feasible.
Very unlikely to happen. With the current Congress I can guarantee nothing will happen in this regard.

Some other Congress? Maybe, but still doubtful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Very unlikely to happen. With the current Congress I can guarantee nothing will happen in this regard.

Some other Congress? Maybe, but still doubtful.
Completely agree.

Spending more money on defense is one thing, but God forbid we take care of our country's children! /s
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I guess its crazy times, but to some degree, it has always been this way. Now granted, where I trained was a larger institution (though at the time, the unit and faculty pool was smaller than my current institution), but I remember often going on diversion for bed capacity. In fact, the unit was a mix of private or shared rooms and pod beds (the latter types separated by temporary curtains). During various times during the winter seasons and especially during the H1N1 pandemic, we would often have the shared and pod bed, typical reserved for 2 patients, get 3 or even sometimes 4 patients (if they could physically fit) in those areas and go way past capacity. That was in addition to making the PACU a stepdown ICU for the post-surgical children. And this was over a decade age at this point. So the issues that existed back then continue to be an issue now. The acceleration of community hospitals closing down (which had a challenging time managing pediatrics anyway), as well as reductions in staff and staff experience, have exacerbated the problem though. But for many hospital systems, the juice isn't worth the squeeze unless it creates surgical volume.
So based on all of this, if one still desires to go into Peds, what areas are a more solid bet in terms of steady work, challenging work ?

Hospitalist at a children's hospital ?
Peds specialist affiliated with a children's hospital ?
Academia ?
General outpatient peds ?

Or does one better served going the Med-Peds route ?
 
So based on all of this, if one still desires to go into Peds, what areas are a more solid bet in terms of steady work, challenging work ?

Hospitalist at a children's hospital ?
Peds specialist affiliated with a children's hospital ?
Academia ?
General outpatient peds ?

Or does one better served going the Med-Peds route ?
Well, one should first figure out which field in/part of medicine they enjoy doing the most. Not the one with the best salary or which is the best bet... because those latter things are subject to market forces which are ultimately... unpredictable. For instance, 10 years ago, ER was one of the best bets... now, not so much.

But if you don't enjoy what you do, no amount of salary or consistency will make that better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Can’t watch it :(

Don’t subscribe and have used up my free content on all my different browsers :/
NYTimes subscription is $4/month. And when they raise the rate after a year, just click to leave the subscription, ask for the pediatrician rate, and they’ll offer $4/month again
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
So based on all of this, if one still desires to go into Peds, what areas are a more solid bet in terms of steady work, challenging work ?

Hospitalist at a children's hospital ?
Peds specialist affiliated with a children's hospital ?
Academia ?
General outpatient peds ?

Or does one better served going the Med-Peds route ?

Meds Peds so you have the flexibility to do adults. I tell everyone I know don't do Peds. The field will be midlevel run with the exception of concierge practices in the future.
 
Meds Peds so you have the flexibility to do adults. I tell everyone I know don't do Peds. The field will be midlevel run with the exception of concierge practices in the future.

Don’t think it will be midlevel run, or at least not more than primary care in general.

Do agree that there’s more flexibility and job options for adult medicine though. Especially for the subspecialties. So if you’re truly split between Peds and IM, do either med/Peds or IM
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Don’t think it will be midlevel run, or at least not more than primary care in general.

Do agree that there’s more flexibility and job options for adult medicine though. Especially for the subspecialties. So if you’re truly split between Peds and IM, do either med/Peds or IM

I'm a newish attending, and multiple colleagues had issues finding jobs. For every pediatrician spot there are 2-3 midlevel spots.

I think our profession will go toward DPC and concierge, which has its own issues in which parents want ABX for viral URIs.
 
Top