Why the huge divorce rate for psych's ?

[surftheiop]

I always thought psychiatrists were the ones who would have good marriages do to less stringent residency/hours. What gives here?

"The Hopkins team assessed the specialty choices, marriage histories, psychological characteristics, and other career and personal factors of 1,118 physicians who graduated from The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine from 1948 through 1964.


Over 30 years of follow-up, the divorce rate was 51 percent for psychiatrists, 33 percent for surgeons, 24 percent for internists, 22 percent for pediatricians and pathologists, and 31 percent for other specialties. The overall divorce rate was 29 percent after three decades of follow-up and 32 percent after nearly four decades of follow-up.
"

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[abcxyz0123]

I am pretty sure its because they cant help but call out their significant other for having some kind of psychiatric issue anytime they have a major argument. This is not official...but it makes sense if u think about it. Why else would it be so high, when everything else about the job contributes nicely to family life (solid income, good hours, etc) ? Seriously...imagine how much that would piss u off....especially since its coming from an official source (doctor trained in psychiatry):

Wife: I hate u

Husband (who is a psychiatrist): U r just insecure and are demonstrating a Xxxx complex because xxxx happened in ur childhood.

Wife (realizes thats true, which pisses her off more than any name-calling could): Phuc u. I want a divorce, you jackass.

 

[notdeadyet]

Keep in mind that this study is going to be more relevant to the last generation of psychiatrists, now aged somewhere between 71 and well-dead.

I would think a lot's changed in the field of psychiatry, the type of person it attracts, and our countries attitudes on marriage. You'd be comparing yourself with your grandparents' generation.

 

[surftheiop]

Keep in mind that this study is going to be more relevant to the last generation of psychiatrists, now aged somewhere between 71 and well-dead.

I would think a lot's changed in the field of psychiatry, the type of person it attracts, and our countries attitudes on marriage. You'd be comparing yourself with your grandparents' generation.

very true, but whats changed so much about psych (and whos does it) since then?

If the surgeons had been on top of the list nobody would likely object to the fact that we are comparing ourselves to grandpa.

 

[peppy]

Wife (realizes thats true, which pisses her off more than any name-calling could)

Heh. I really do think that, whether your observations are true or not, it is irritating to the other person to feel like you are putting yourself in the position of "know it all" doctor dealing with a patient rather than relating to them as a friend or partner. Not being able to "turn it off" when you leave work is a sign of a psychiatrist who lacks self awareness and social skills in my opinion.

Another factor, in my opinion, is the "compassion fatigue" factor. Psychiatry requires a lot of intense personal contact and can be emotionally draining. By the time you get home you may be jaded to a spouse's emotional needs or tired about hearing about other people's problems.

 

[peppy]

very true, but whats changed so much about psych (and whos does it) since then?
If the surgeons had been on top of the list nobody would likely object to the fact that we are comparing ourselves to grandpa.

I don't think any paradigm shift in surgery has been as radical as the transition in how psych is practiced now versus 40 years ago.
Having met both types on rotations, I feel there are some distinct differences between the Freudian-inclined old timer psychiatrist who wants to talk about how everyone's motives are rooted in some sexual desire (especially in regards to his attractive female patients) versus the freshly graduated psych attending who wants to pimp you on the pharmacology of anti-psychotics.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Keep in mind that this study is going to be more relevant to the last generation of psychiatrists, now aged somewhere between 71 and well-dead.

I would think a lot's changed in the field of psychiatry, the type of person it attracts, and our countries attitudes on marriage. You'd be comparing yourself with your grandparents' generation.

Exactly. These were all also JHU medical grads, so you might argue that it represented a rather less-well-rounded slice of American life than the population as a whole.

I wonder if one might also hypothesize that psychiatrists of that era might have been more liberal than their medical peers, and more likely to be "early adopters" of the sexual and marriage mores of the 60s and 70s.

 

[chameleonknight]

I wonder if one might also hypothesize that psychiatrists of that era might have been more liberal than their medical peers, and more likely to be "early adopters" of the sexual and marriage mores of the 60s and 70s.

That was the first thought that came to my mind as well.

 

[surftheiop]

Exactly. These were all also JHU medical grads, so you might argue that it represented a rather less-well-rounded slice of American life than the population as a whole.

I wonder if one might also hypothesize that psychiatrists of that era might have been more liberal than their medical peers, and more likely to be "early adopters" of the sexual and marriage mores of the 60s and 70s.

everytime someone comes in here thinking the sky is falling all of you manage to give reasonable/logical responces to calm people down.

You all seem so good at it, why don't you do it for a career?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

everytime someone comes in here thinking the sky is falling all of you manage to give reasonable/logical responces to calm people down.

You all seem so good at it, why don't you do it for a career?

We should all try to be more reactionary to fit in with the rest of the medical community. So yes, you will get divorced if you go into psychiatry. And you won't make any money because all psychiatrists are broke and because of Obama and socialists and all that good stuff. Then one of your patients will kill you.

Now getting kinda serious, I'd be curious to see what results would be for a more recent study. Anecdotally, ever single surgeon I worked with on my rotation was divorced.

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

We should all try to be more reactionary to fit in with the rest of the medical community. So yes, you will get divorced if you go into psychiatry. And you won't make any money because all psychiatrists are broke and because of Obama and socialists and all that good stuff. Then one of your patients will kill you.

Now getting kinda serious, I'd be curious to see what results would be for a more recent study. Anecdotally, ever single surgeon I worked with on my rotation was divorced.

Heck, I would be more surprised they ever managed to get married.

 

[Ollie123]

To take a more optimistic bend, I think we're too quick to assume a higher divorce rate is inherently a bad thing. Let's see some data on happiness and life satisfaction before making that assumption

Its entirely possible the psychiatrists were the only ones with the self-awareness to REALIZE their marriage was making them miserable and had the sense to get out. Let's not forget that as a possibility

 

[Still Kickin]

To take a more optimistic bend, I think we're too quick to assume a higher divorce rate is inherently a bad thing. Let's see some data on happiness and life satisfaction before making that assumption

Its entirely possible the psychiatrists were the only ones with the self-awareness to REALIZE their marriage was making them miserable and had the sense to get out. Let's not forget that as a possibility

My thoughts exactly.

and/or - physicians in other specialities might actually be "aware" enough to realize they have a crappy marriage, but not motivated enough to do anything about it. especially for the more therapeutically-minded psychiatrists, we are always trying to help our patients make the most of their lives (which sometimes involves recognizing a toxic situation that just IS NOT / WILL NOT get better and deciding to remove that negativity from their lives). sure, it's always easier to "advise" others than apply the same advice to your own situation, but if you really believe this stuff it seems you'd eventually try to apply it to your own life, too. (and many psychiatrists have gone for therapy as part of their training which may help them overcome the inertia of inactivity to actually do something about the crappy aspect of their lives...)

 

[nancysinatra]

everytime someone comes in here thinking the sky is falling all of you manage to give reasonable/logical responces to calm people down.

Isn't that called denial? ;-)

 

[kugel]

everytime someone comes in here thinking the sky is falling all of you manage to give reasonable/logical responces to calm people down. )

The man who can keep his head while all those around him are losing theirs...

 

[kugel]

The man who can keep his head while all those around him are losing theirs...

doesn't understand the situation.

 

[Neurotica]

so this is somewhat tangential and off-topic, but the topic of divorce got me thinking. two of the residents in my class are divorced, and several times patients have questioned how these residents can truly help with relationship issues when they couldn't make their own marriages work. now i know there are a plethora of theoretical explanations we can throw out as to why they can still be effective therapists in this specific regard, but is there a chance their patients have a point? would we feel comfortable getting our car fixed from a mechanic whose own car is broken down? Or getting our hair cut by someone who flaunts a flock of seagulls style?

 

[kugel]

would we feel comfortable getting our car fixed from a mechanic whose own car is broken down? Or getting our hair cut by someone who flaunts a flock of seagulls style?

You should always get your hair cut by the barber with the worst haircut, since he/she is getting haircuts from the others in that shop. Maybe it's the same with marriages. Maybe the question isn't, "Why couldn't he save his own marriage?" It's, "Whom did he hire as a marriage counselor?"

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Heck, I would be more surprised they ever managed to get married.

Do you know how much money surgeons make in the US?

 

[michaelrack]

I am pretty sure its because they cant help but call out their significant other for having some kind of psychiatric issue anytime they have a major argument. .

It gets really interesting when 2 psychiatrists are married to each other.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

It gets really interesting when 2 psychiatrists are married to each other.

I believe that Doc Samson has mentioned this occasionally...

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

Do you know how much money surgeons make in the US?

Hell, yes - but at what price? The burned-out, emotionally unavailable rich spouse is only going to attract "trophy-spouses" - or, at best, another surgeon.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Hell, yes - but at what price? The burned-out, emotionally unavailable rich spouse is only going to attract "trophy-spouses" - or, at best, another surgeon.

You seem to suggest that this places a limitation on their prospects...

 

[whopper]

My wife is getting her master's in counseling and has a psychotherapy curriculum much more intense than in my residency. So far she's had to read several textbooks on psychotherapy, and gives approximately 20 hrs a week of intensive psychotherapy to clients.

Her own personal insight has dramatically increased in the past year, and she's a much different & more sophisticated person since her program started.

IMHO, that change has actually been good in our marriage. When we have arguments, she has better insight into what's going on. I think we're better off together with her having this training.

However there were some growing pains along the way. A few times she'd question something going on between us--directly based on what she was learning in her program.

I can see being a mental health professional (at least so far) being bad for marriage if the person uses their knowledge in a bad faith manner with their spouse, or if they are going through personal growing pains while in training which make them question who they are. That will in turn affect the spouse. Marriage will be a process where both people grow & change & have to adapt to the other person's changes, however being in a psychotherapy rich curriculum can cause some pretty deep & fundamental changes on a faster rate than normal life.

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

You seem to suggest that this places a limitation on their prospects...

Probably not - but it co-habitation without formalising the relationship might be easier and more convenient for both parties (which brings us back to my original remark that I am surprised they would manage to get married to start with)

 

[Still Kickin]

On our tangential topic about surgeon's marriages:

I would bet there is not a lot of arguing going on in a house where one of the spouses is always either (1)not home -or- (2)asleep plus (3)earns a very attractive salary.

(For the non-surgeon spouse):
Rich, emotionally satifying relationship? Maybe not. (But I don't want to over-generalize about surgeons here...)
Nice lifestyle without a lot of hassle? Probably.
It all just depends what you want out of life - different things work for different people.

(Just a thought.)

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

On our tangential topic about surgeon's marriages:

I would bet there is not a lot of arguing going on in a house where one of the spouses is always either (1)not home -or- (2)asleep plus (3)earns a very attractive salary.

(For the non-surgeon spouse):
Rich, emotionally satifying relationship? Maybe not. (But I don't want to over-generalize about surgeons here...)
Nice lifestyle without a lot of hassle? Probably.
It all just depends what you want out of life - different things work for different people.

(Just a thought.)

You know, I never thought about it this way, but you are right. I am sure, there are there people happy to be in semi-long-distant relationship with their spouse, seeing them once a week or so but getting regular healthy size injections into their bank accounts. Perhaps, it could even be called a happy marriage, bearing in mind that "happiness is in the eye of the beholder", to paraphrase the saying. And it might be that not all those marriages are destined to fail, if both spouses are genuinely happy with the way things are (considering many people would not be). Maybe, one day someone will carry out a study on contributors to happiness in (and longevity of) surgeons' marriages...

 

[billypilgrim37]

Probably not - but it co-habitation without formalising the relationship might be easier and more convenient for both parties (which brings us back to my original remark that I am surprised they would manage to get married to start with)

But cohabitation is a narcissistic injury (and makes paying the plastic surgery bills more awkward).

 

[zenman]

Do you know how much money surgeons make in the US?

Wonder how much barbers make and what their divorce rate is....

 

[whopper]

My dad is a surgeon, and he was hardly home. When he was home, he was very beat from having to pull multiple all nighters in a week. IMHO his diabetes is a direct result of his hard hours. I'm sure the cortisol running though his system all those years messed up his glucose & insulin receptors bigtime.

My parents' marriage had plenty of problems--much of it as a direct result of his hard hours. They stayed together, mostly IMHO because they're from the old country where no one gets a divorce.

As for the family as a whole, my dad was often times absent minded, which I didn't get until medschool. When you work crazy hours, yeah you can know the Krebs cycle, and this & that, but you start losing touch with common sense and what's going on right in front of your face. Him being that way did have some negative effects. E.g. the kids didn't understand him being so absent minded, and we didn't really have him home much.

He also expressed his love for his famliy by working the crazy hours so he could pay for a big house, and expensive private school tuitions.

 

[notdeadyet]

When you work crazy hours, yeah you can know the Krebs cycle, and this & that, but you start losing touch with common sense and what's going on right in front of your face.

Do surgeons really care about the Krebs cycle? The only appeal of the surgical fields for me is the ability to happily forget about that kind of thing...