Why Tufts is filled with img?

[demyelinatedaspirant]

Hi everyone, applying this cycle and interested in Boston based university programs. Using residencyexplorer tool I realized, Tufts has a pretty high step 1 average (245) but also their recent match list was 5/6 imgs. How's that? I've heard a lot of great things about Tufts from my friends in Boston. Is there anything I am missing?

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[elaboratewithdodge]

Hi, I personally know one of the IMGs who matched into Tufts this year and for the record, she's a living genius. Also, I think Tufts workload is heavy but then again all Boston programs' are.

 

[Telamir]

I trained at a very "name brand" institution and 2/4 of my class were IMGs.

I think what you're "missing" might be a bit of prejudice.

While it is true that some lower tier places take more IMGs their presence at top institutions should not surprise you especially given that while neurology is competitive it's certainly not derm.

 

[xenotype]

Neurology is not ENT or plastics. It isn't that competitive particularly for mid-tier locations like Tufts- (ie not Harvard partners, Yale, insert name-brand here). With that said, the IMGs (more correctly FMGs) in neurology are typically very smart, hard working, and all the FMGs in my class made my CV and publications look sad as a US grad. One had a first author in Science and >500 publications, another had >200. US grads in my class had no more than 1-3 papers, and the same or lower board scores.

Don't go to a neurology residency where the workload isn't 'heavy'. That means you won't be juggling sick patients and might be incompetent when you are done- you need to be pushed past your comfort zone. I wouldn't worry about the ratio/number of FMGs in classes much- mine in my class are close friends that I rely on for advice/curbside all the time (and vice versa). If the residency picks well in general and residents seem happy, your FMG classmates will be great people you can rely on after a bad call night. It is much more complicated in reality than ratio of USMD grads in class = quality of residency program.

 

[bigamygdala]

Neurology is not ENT or plastics. It isn't that competitive particularly for mid-tier locations like Tufts- (ie not Harvard partners, Yale, insert name-brand here). With that said, the IMGs (more correctly FMGs) in neurology are typically very smart, hard working, and all the FMGs in my class made my CV and publications look sad as a US grad. One had a first author in Science and >500 publications, another had >200. US grads in my class had no more than 1-3 papers, and the same or lower board scores.

Don't go to a neurology residency where the workload isn't 'heavy'. That means you won't be juggling sick patients and might be incompetent when you are done- you need to be pushed past your comfort zone. I wouldn't worry about the ratio/number of FMGs in classes much- mine in my class are close friends that I rely on for advice/curbside all the time (and vice versa). If the residency picks well in general and residents seem happy, your FMG classmates will be great people you can rely on after a bad call night. It is much more complicated in reality than ratio of USMD grads in class = quality of residency program.

Wow, 500+ and 200+.... and here, I (FMG) was proud of my 75 papers for next year's match application... :s but yeah, you were spot on here.

 

[aquafinaoo]

Wow, 500+ and 200+.... and here, I (FMG) was proud of my 75 papers for next year's match application... :s but yeah, you were spot on here.

How on earth does someone get that many publications while in med school?

 

[sharkbaitwhohaha]

Neurology is not ENT or plastics. It isn't that competitive particularly for mid-tier locations like Tufts- (ie not Harvard partners, Yale, insert name-brand here). With that said, the IMGs (more correctly FMGs) in neurology are typically very smart, hard working, and all the FMGs in my class made my CV and publications look sad as a US grad. One had a first author in Science and >500 publications, another had >200. US grads in my class had no more than 1-3 papers, and the same or lower board scores.

Don't go to a neurology residency where the workload isn't 'heavy'. That means you won't be juggling sick patients and might be incompetent when you are done- you need to be pushed past your comfort zone. I wouldn't worry about the ratio/number of FMGs in classes much- mine in my class are close friends that I rely on for advice/curbside all the time (and vice versa). If the residency picks well in general and residents seem happy, your FMG classmates will be great people you can rely on after a bad call night. It is much more complicated in reality than ratio of USMD grads in class = quality of residency program.

I'm suspicious of 500 publications. That's chairman level number of publications.

 

[Thama]

How on earth does someone get that many publications while in med school?

Re; 500+ publications, it's usually not just while in med school. But the only way anyone gets that many publications in less than a decade or two is by being in a lab environment that lends itself to extremely high volume publishing, and where authorship is just given to everyone in the lab by default. You can have an entire extremely decorated research career and not publish a fifth of that if you're ethically following authorship standards.

 

[bigamygdala]

How on earth does someone get that many publications while in med school?

Mine is via heavy involvement from day 1 of med school (about 10-15 during med school years). After graduation, I also did research while prepping for USMLE and working to raise the money to support my usmle journey. I am the first author in almost 80% of the pubs I had after graduating, 2nd-3rd author in the pubs I had during med school.

Re; 500+ publications, it's usually not just while in med school. But the only way anyone gets that many publications in less than a decade or two is by being in a lab environment that lends itself to extremely high volume publishing, and where authorship is just given to everyone in the lab by default. You can have an entire extremely decorated research career and not publish a fifth of that if you're ethically following authorship standards.

yeah so true, I had to add people in my papers by default, due to their status at the centre I was doing research, same thing everywhere.

 

[Thama]

yeah so true, I had to add people in my papers by default, due to their status at the centre I was doing research, same thing everywhere.

This kind of behavior is what drives skepticism about publication counts and academic integrity from certain parts of the world. It is also why match committees are likely to regard some absurdly high publication counts with an eye roll rather than being impressed.

 

[bigamygdala]

This kind of behavior is what drives skepticism about publication counts and academic integrity from certain parts of the world. It is also why match committees are likely to regard some absurdly high publication counts with an eye roll rather than being impressed.

rightly so. However, these are usually for people who have worked in those research centres for years or have a high rank, and those kinds of profiles are probably quite rare applicants for the match.

there is a new trend where imgs and fmgs are publishing in a very questionable journal that accepts within days. I've seen some applicants with 20+ papers , all in that one journal, all submitted and accepted within days, total time spent on "research" = 1month, mostly case reports and review articles, no "expert" or proper mentor with a background in the field, just a bunch of medical students or grads...
Several amgs have started doing that too... hmmm that feels so wrong... (I've not published there, and not planning to)

 

[Thama]

rightly so. However, these are usually for people who have worked in those research centres for years or have a high rank, and those kinds of profiles are probably quite rare applicants for the match.

there is a new trend where imgs and fmgs are publishing in a very questionable journal that accepts within days. I've seen some applicants with 20+ papers , all in that one journal, all submitted and accepted within days, total time spent on "research" = 1month, mostly case reports and review articles, no "expert" or proper mentor with a background in the field, just a bunch of medical students or grads...
Several amgs have started doing that too... hmmm that feels so wrong... (I've not published there, and not planning to)

Yep - and think of a match committee's reaction. They are going to open up a CV with more publications than can possibly be read, glance at a couple at random, see obviously predatory journal without legitimate peer review or often even pubmed indexing, and throw the application in the trash as essentially fraudulent.

 

[90sportsfan]

I'm suspicious of 500 publications. That's chairman level number of publications.

Agree. I personally don't believe a med student could have anywhere near 500 pubs. That's just not plausible. Even 100 is not plausible in my mind. If they somehow did, I feel like that would actually backfire against the applicant as PDs would likely probe deeply into this, and if the applicant couldn't answer questions about their publications/reasearch, it would open an even bigger can of worms.

 

[xenotype]

To quell some of the scepticism- older FMG who had their own basic science lab, grants for many years prior. I stand by my point that I've trained with excellent FMGs who've been there for me through training, are smart, and give great patient care. The program's culture, structure etc is the key part for those looking for where to train. Not glancing at the list and calculating a ratio of how many US grads they have.

 

[90sportsfan]

To quell some of the scepticism- older FMG who had their own basic science lab, grants for many years prior. I stand by my point that I've trained with excellent FMGs who've been there for me through training, are smart, and give great patient care. The program's culture, structure etc is the key part for those looking for where to train. Not glancing at the list and calculating a ratio of how many US grads they have.

That explains it a lot more. I agree with you that I'm sure there are very talented and competent FMGs/IMGs; I was reacting more to the publications numbers, which shocked me (whether it is a US MD or a FMG) 🙂. But the additional information helps explain it, and I agree with your overall point.

 

[elaboratewithdodge]

I don't think an instituition should be necessarily a "brand name" to be considered competetive. Firstly, Tufts program is affliated to a brand name institution. Secondly, It's in Boston which makes it 10× more competetive. Thirdly, a Step 1 average of 245 is HUGE.
Tufts MC and Lahey are great hospitals to be trained at and surely you'll have the opportunity to rotate your electives at any hospital in Boston. Nothing beats the location in residency (for med school could be different). 245 is about the same average for Partners and Mayo sisterhood. Apply there and rank them highly.