Why would anyone go into primary care nowadays?

[RJGOP]

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but, everyone should chip in their fair share. why should warren buffet pay less in income taxes than his secretary? I mean, people need that government honey that they don't deserve because it is the right thing to do, even if it doesn't make any financial sense and it will bankrupt our country.

It's not the right thing to do if it will bankrupt our country! Warren Buffet does pay more than his secretary or anyone else in the U.S. For that matter, with the exception of Bill Gates.[/QUOTE]

 

[DermViser]

I agree. The govenrment paints physicians out to be these money hungry people and uses that to specifically assault physicians with public support. The public isn't going to complain because the "overpaid" physician got a pay cut.

They'll just complain when they no longer have access to their physician. Look at the backlash of "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".

 

[tdram]

It's not the right thing to do if it will bankrupt our country! Warren Buffet does pay more than his secretary or anyone else in the U.S. For that matter, with the exception of Bill Gates.

[/QUOTE]
Raising taxes too much will only lead to people who have the money to pay either find more ways to cut taxes, or just take their money elsewhere than the US. Then what are you gonna do?

 

[tdram]

They'll just complain when they no longer have access to their physician. Look at the backlash of "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".

Absolutely. The public already thinks physicians are grossly overpaid. We have no support from them. The only way things will change is when obamacare starts driving so many physicians out of business, people can't find one and are frustrated that they have no care at all despite Obama's promise that everyone will be covered. What's the point in having an insurance card if there's no one to take it?

 

[RJGOP]

Raising taxes too much will only lead to people who have the money to pay either find more ways to cut taxes, or just take their money elsewhere than the US. Then what are you gonna do?[/QUOTE]
Or the people with the money who do pay all the taxes become exponentially less wealthy. And guess what, when the extremely wealthy folks who run all the imperative businesses go bankrupt, or can't afford to maintain their employees and businesses, millions of more people are screwed. It's just a domino effect.

 

[tdram]

Absolutely, taking from the rich and giving to the poor doesn't really work for too long. Eventually the rich wise up and take their money elsewhere, or they just become less and less rich and there's less to take.

 

[DermViser]

Absolutely. The public already thinks physicians are grossly overpaid. We have no support from them. The only way things will change is when obamacare starts driving so many physicians out of business, people can't find one and are frustrated that they have no care at all despite Obama's promise that everyone will be covered. What's the point in having an insurance card if there's no one to take it?

The general public may think physicians as a group are overpaid, but they deeply value THEIR OWN physician. Obamacare is unpopular bc it drives a wedge between patients and their physicians. It's why the "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" line angers people. It was the only reason that Obamacare passed. Now that people are finding out that it's not true, and that many of the hospitals are in fact not participating, it's become not at all what it was sold as.

 

[DermViser]

Raising taxes too much will only lead to people who have the money to pay either find more ways to cut taxes, or just take their money elsewhere than the US. Then what are you gonna do?
Or the people with the money who do pay all the taxes become exponentially less wealthy. And guess what, when the extremely wealthy folks who run all the imperative businesses go bankrupt, or can't afford to maintain their employees and businesses, millions of more people are screwed. It's just a domino effect.

Oops, don't tell that to @jonnythan. You'll disturb his utopia. 😆😆

 

[RJGOP]

Absolutely, taking from the rich and giving to the poor doesn't really work for too long. Eventually the rich wise up and take their money elsewhere, or they just become less and less rich and there's less to take.

And giving the poor money from the rich just teaches them that they will never have to work, and that capitalism, success and hard work is evil. Then we have a country filled with $hit-bums who never worked a day in their life and just collect unemployment from a nearly bankrupt country. That's what is Obama accomplishing. That's what he invisions for America.

 

[el_duderino]

Oops, don't tell that to @jonnythan. You'll disturb his utopia. 😆😆

Eh. I'm under no illusions. I understand that accomplishing this would require large sacrifices in terms of physician compensation and care rationing and taxes.

The only difference is that I think it's worth it. It works in other countries.

 

[tdram]

And giving the poor money from the rich just teaches them that they will never have to work, and that capitalism, success and hard work is evil. Then we have a country filled with $hit-bums who never worked a day in their life and just collect unemployment from a nearly bankrupt country. That's what Obama accomplishing. That's what he invisions for America.

Yup, that's what we already have for the most part. America is quickly rotting away. The question is, which other country will take over in the gap America has left?

 

[tdram]

Eh. I'm under no illusions. I understand that accomplishing this would require large sacrifices in terms of physician compensation and care rationing and taxes.

The only difference is that I think it's worth it. It works in other countries.

And you're OK with care rationing?

 

[DermViser]

Eh. I'm under no illusions. I understand that accomplishing this would require large sacrifices in terms of physician compensation and care rationing and taxes.

The only difference is that I think it's worth it.

Except the problem there are many other things in the budget that you have to pay for - not just healthcare. That's what happens when you make everything a "right".
Figures a person who believes everyone should have healthcare would want care rationing.

 

[DermViser]

And you're OK with care rationing?

It's for the good of the collective to care ration.

 

[tdram]

Except the problem there are many other things in the budget that you have to pay for - not just healthcare. That's what happens when you make everything a "right".
Figures a person who believes everyone should have healthcare would want care rationing.

There's already a natural method of rationing. It's called - you get what you're paying for.

 

[DermViser]

There's already a natural method of rationing. It's called - you get what you're paying for.

Except that isn't "fair". You are for healthcare inequality.

 

[tdram]

Except that isn't "fair". You are for healthcare inequality.

I'm sure people like him advocating for care rationing would be happy when his elderly parents or grandparents get care rationed and die because they're too old to be worth it.

 

[DermViser]

I'm sure people like him advocating for care rationing would be happy when his elderly parents or grandparents get care rationed and die because they're too old to be worth it.

Nope, that's usually when people like @jonnythan become hypocrites. Rationing then should apply to everyone else.

 

[el_duderino]

Except the problem there are many other things in the budget that you have to pay for - not just healthcare. That's what happens when you make everything a "right".
Figures a person who believes everyone should have healthcare would want care rationing.

Not everything.

 

[DermViser]

Not everything.

You're right. Just your bleeding heart pet project at the moment.

 

[Greenberg702]

Eh. I'm under no illusions. I understand that accomplishing this would require large sacrifices in terms of physician compensation and care rationing and taxes.

The only difference is that I think it's worth it. It works in other countries.

America without a doubt offers the best healthcare for individuals who are able to access it. We have the best cancer survival rates as well as the most accomplished physicians and most innovative researchers. It's an open secret that many world leaders and most oligarchs come here for care. Most of those health rankings that put us in like 30th place and are done by the WHO are complete bull**** because they perpetuate a fallacy that those countries' systems are better when in fact, it's their population that is much, much healthier, more homogenous, and jack every single one of our innovations. If you destroy what we have, completely decimate the cadillac care available to most so that a few can have "improved access" (which is complete BS bc people are dropping medicaid patients left and right) you will lose the driver of healthcare around the world which is currently irreplaceable.

 

[tdram]

You're right. Just your bleeding heart pet project at the moment.

He's a typical early stage med student. Wants to save the world, healthcare for all, wants to go into primary care, claims he would be happy to take a pay cut if it meant everyone could be healthy! Let's wait until MS4 and check back to see what he goes into....

 

[DermViser]

He's a typical early stage med student. Wants to save the world, healthcare for all, wants to go into primary care, claims he would be happy to take a pay cut if it meant everyone could be healthy! Let's wait until MS4 and check back to see what he goes into....

I predict a lifestyle specialty after MS-1. People like him, with such unadulterated hubris, have a habit of going full hypocrite.

 

[el_duderino]

I'm 33 and don't want to save the world or do primary care. I've been working in a different career for over a decade. My opinions predate my decision to go into medicine.

I don't fit in the box you want me to fit into.

 

[RJGOP]

America without a doubt offers the best healthcare for individuals who are able to access it. We have the best cancer survival rates as well as the most accomplished physicians and most innovative researchers. It's an open secret that many world leaders and most oligarchs come here for care. Most of those health rankings that put us in like 30th place and are done by the WHO are complete bull**** because they perpetuate a fallacy that those countries' systems are better when in fact, it's their population that is much, much healthier, more homogenous, and jack every single one of our innovations. If you destroy what we have, completely decimate the cadillac care available to most so that a few can have "improved access" (which is complete BS bc people are dropping medicaid patients left and right) you will lose the driver of healthcare around the world which is currently irreplaceable.

Not to mention we have much better trained physicians as a result of the better schools, which have been degraded by international "rankers" and "critics" of our healthcare system and doctors.

 

[DermViser]

America without a doubt offers the best healthcare for individuals who are able to access it. We have the best cancer survival rates as well as the most accomplished physicians and most innovative researchers. It's an open secret that many world leaders and most oligarchs come here for care. Most of those health rankings that put us in like 30th place and are done by the WHO are complete bull**** because they perpetuate a fallacy that those countries' systems are better when in fact, it's their population that is much, much healthier, more homogenous, and jack every single one of our innovations. If you destroy what we have, completely decimate the cadillac care available to most so that a few can have "improved access" (which is complete BS bc people are dropping medicaid patients left and right) you will lose the driver of healthcare around the world which is currently irreplaceable.

Funny isn't it? Saudi sheiks, Heads of state come to the U.S. for their healthcare (which is allegedly so "inferior"), IMGs come to the U.S. take all the Steps and enter the match to practice in the United States, etc. from countries in which @jonnythan believes we should model our healthcare system after.

 

[PL198]

I don't see how society acts like A) Human life is some sacred and highly valuable commodity, where services dealing with life and somehow more special and significant than others that do not, but then B) Thinks that physicians, the people who are the primary protectors of human life, are overpaid. It's one or the other. Either you value your health, or you don't. If you expect me to go above and beyond what some other service provider would(because that's all medicine is, providing a service) then you're gonna pay me to do so.

 

[tdram]

I'm 33 and don't want to save the world or do primary care. I've been working in a different career for over a decade. My opinions predate my decision to go into medicine.

I don't fit in the box you want me to fit into.

I guarantee your opinion will change somewhere along the line.

 

[DermViser]

I'm 33 and don't want to save the world or do primary care. I've been working in a different career for over a decade. My opinions predate my decision to go into medicine.

I don't fit in the box you want me to fit into.

Oh, then you've already turned full hypocrite, already before you're even set foot in medical school. You know that primary care is where there is a "shortage" right? The common good needs more primary care doctors, not specialists.

 

[el_duderino]

I guarantee your opinion will change somewhere along the line.

My opinion is as a human being. If my opinion changes as a result of me potentially getting less money or job security for implementing universal health care, that's sad and I'd be very disappointed in myself.

The older I get, the worse I feel about other people not having the advantages I've had. It's pathetic that we as a society can't make sure everyone gets basic health care. Pathetic.

 

[PL198]

Funny isn't it? Saudi sheiks, Heads of state come to the U.S. for their healthcare (which is allegedly so "inferior"), IMGs come to the U.S. take all the Steps and enter the match to practice in the United States, etc. from countries in which @jonnythan believes we should model our healthcare system after.

I mean it's just the whole rap I wrote a while back about the emphasis on chronic disease vs acute. Chronic disease is hugely hugely hugely dependent on the population base, and the US is filled with a bunch of lazy f*cks, so we will never have good chronic disease rates. There isn't another nation in the world that can touch our acute care. I'd say that knowing how to kill someone's cancer or give them a new heart is more important and reflective of a successful health care system than telling them to eat less calories and having that person ignore you, but hey I guess that's just me. All those world organizations just want to make excuses for chronic disease being so bad in the US, because the same people that vote and fund them, are the same people who the lazy f*cks vote for.

 

[tdram]

I don't see how society acts like A) Human life is some sacred and highly valuable commodity, where services dealing with life and somehow more special and significant than others that do not, but then B) Thinks that physicians, the people who are the primary protectors of human life, are overpaid. It's one or the other. Either you value your health, or you don't. If you expect me to go above and beyond what some other service provider would(because that's all medicine is, providing a service) then you're gonna pay me to do so.

Exactly! The other thing is, a lot of people seem to think that physicians should basically be working for a pittance because saving lives is reward enough. I was working in a clinic last month where a lady bust in to the office with no appointment and demanded her right to be seen without any insurance or any payment. When the physician wouldn't do it, she got irate and started calling the physician greedy, immoral, uncaring, etc. Somehow physicians are expected to work for free. Would you go to verizon and demand an iPhone for free and call them greedy if they don't give you one?? That would be OK if society gave physicians a break elsewhere. But physicians have to pay just as much as everyone else at every other business. Why is it that the physician has to pay for everything but if you can't pay, you deserve to see the physician for free?

 

[RJGOP]

Funny isn't it? Saudi sheiks, Heads of state come to the U.S. for their healthcare (which is allegedly so "inferior"), IMGs come to the U.S. take all the Steps and enter the match to practice in the United States, etc. from countries in which @jonnythan believes we should model our healthcare system after.

I just remember my mom (who is a surgeon) working with this Russian anesthesiologist who always said Russia had better physician training and healthcare. He quickly lost his license to practice medicine because of so many malpractice lawsuits. I just thought it was ironic.

 

[tdram]

My opinion is as a human being. If my opinion changes as a result of me potentially getting less money or job security for implementing universal health care, that's sad and I'd be very disappointed in myself.

The older I get, the worse I feel about other people not having the advantages I've had. It's pathetic that we as a society can't make sure everyone gets basic health care. Pathetic.

What's pathetic is that people will take terrible care of their health and expect society to pay for their mistakes. What's pathetic is that people will have kids they know they can't afford to support and expect society to pay for them. What's pathetic is that people will come over here illegally and expect that we pay for their healthcare. I could go on and on.

I don't owe you anything and you don't owe me anything.

 

[DermViser]

My opinion is as a human being. If my opinion changes as a result of me potentially getting less money or job security for implementing universal health care, that's sad and I'd be very disappointed in myself.

The older I get, the worse I feel about other people not having the advantages I've had. It's pathetic that we as a society can't make sure everyone gets basic health care. Pathetic.

Remember this the next time as an attending you are giving health care services to someone who can not afford it. At that time, I fully expect you to give your services for free to that person, rather than charge them for it (and no excuse of the hospital is charging them, not me), unless you're a hypocrite.

Don't think that all of us are so heartless that we never had the same thoughts that you had. The difference is we entered or finished medical school and realized that the real world doesn't work in a utopian way that we wish it would be.

 

[el_duderino]

Your continued insistence that I need to work for free is just stupid. If I practice independently, which I probably won't, I'll take medicaid if I can do so and keep the doors open.

I will probably work for a hospital though.

 

[tdram]

Remember this the next time as an attending you are giving health care services to someone who can not afford it. At that time, I fully expect you to give your services for free to that person, rather than charge them for it (and no excuse of the hospital is charging them, not me), unless you're a hypocrite.

Don't think that all of us are so heartless that we never had the same thoughts that you had. The difference is we entered or finished medical school and realized that the real world doesn't work in a utopian way that we wish it would be.

Oh and don't forget that even if that poor person is ungrateful, angry, and badmouthing you the entire time, you need to give them free care, because they deserve it.

One of my preceptors actually got sued by a patient he gave free care to, believe it or not.

 

[tdram]

Your continued insistence that I need to work for free is just stupid. If I practice independently, which I probably won't, I'll take medicaid if I can do so and keep the doors open.

I will probably work for a hospital though.

All we're saying is that if you want to provide free healthcare for all, do it with your own money, or provide the care yourself. Get all your like minded friends to do the same. Don't raise our taxes to do it.

 

[DermViser]

Oh and don't forget that even if that poor person is ungrateful, angry, and badmouthing you the entire time, you need to give them free care, because they deserve it.

One of my preceptors actually got sued by a patient he gave free care to, believe it or not.

I completely believe it. It's why a lot of specialists (ENT, Ophtho, Derm) are refusing to do ER work - hence the complaint by ED docs. Not only financially is it untenable but also the litigious patient who received free care now wishes to sue you for your trouble.

 

[el_duderino]

All we're saying is that if you want to provide free healthcare for all, do it with your own money, or provide the care yourself. Get all your like minded friends to do the same. Don't raise our taxes to do it.

No one said free. No part of this is remotely free.

 

[RJGOP]

I completely believe it. It's why a lot of specialists (ENT, Ophtho, Derm) are refusing to do ER work - hence the complaint by ED docs. Not only financially is it untenable but also the litigious patient who received free care now wishes to sue you for your trouble.

The better you treat people, the more they take advantage of you.

 

[DermViser]

Your continued insistence that I need to work for free is just stupid. If I practice independently, which I probably won't, I'll take medicaid if I can do so and keep the doors open.

I will probably work for a hospital though.

There are only 2 ways for your utopia to work: 1) You work for free or 2) You take a HUGE and I Mean HUGE paycut. Your independent practice or hospital can not survive ONLY seeing Medicaid patients. Either one will go bankrupt.

 

[tdram]

No one said free. No part of this is remotely free.

Free, subsidized, whatever. Pay for it yourself. We don't want our taxes going up. You can call us greedy but we earned that money with sweat, blood and tears. It's ours, not the public's.

 

[DermViser]

The better you treat people, the more they take advantage of you.

It's proof that truly no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[el_duderino]

There are only 2 ways for your utopia to work: 1) You work for free or 2) You take a HUGE and I Mean HUGE paycut. Your independent practice or hospital can not survive ONLY seeing Medicaid patients. Either one will go bankrupt.

Only seeing medicaid?

Where are you getting this stuff? You have a very active imagination.

 

[el_duderino]

Free, subsidized, whatever. Pay for it yourself. We don't want our taxes going up. You can call us greedy but we earned that money with sweat, blood and tears. It's ours, not the public's.

They already have. It's us paying for all those medicaid recipients.

 

[deleted480308]

No one said free. No part of this is remotely free.

if they aren't paying what I'm charging....then at least some of it is free

 

[tdram]

They already have. It's us paying for all those medicaid recipients.

Yes, which we are already paying too much for. I don't want to dump any more money into a broken system.

 

[RJGOP]

It's proof that truly no good deed goes unpunished.

It's also partly a result of the people you're treating. For example, a Medicaid patient whose never worked in their life, whose obese, smokes and is dirt poor is mad at people who are successful in life- it never occurs to them that they caused their own problems.

 

[el_duderino]

Yes, which we are already paying too much for. I don't want to dump any more money into a broken system.

You also don't care if someone does because they can't afford basic health care. I don't think that's right.