"Why your two week trip to Haiti doesn't matter"

[njtrimed]

Nope, don't think it was equivalent experience...just that I've heard the exact same discussions about getting to do more/speak to more people in both contexts. Ever seen mimelim discuss their MS3/4 experience vs many other people, for example? It seems to boil down to the same ability to demonstrate interest without pissing people off that was so useful during the surgical program. The rewards for doing so are, of course, far greater once you're actually a med student though.

Sorry you found the program so boring; I usually wanted the days to last longer than 8hrs. I certainly agree that a lot of the formalities were ridiculous, but the shadowing itself I found to be gold. I'm not sure why you decided I was a greenhorn; I had worked in hospitals for over a year before that, and I still found it awesome. It's something I'm considering spending far, far more than 8hrs once a week doing in the future, so the fact that it was interesting to me under those circumstances is entirely a good thing as far as I am concerned. I don't feel as if I need to pretend cynical ambivalence to demonstrate experience; nor do I feel the need to get into an internet dick-measuring contest with you over my application (which, as mentioned multiple times, the trip abroad was not even on.) Again, it's one thing for med students to pull out the "you are just a premed" card, but you're not a med student yet. You aren't magically better at all things and more qualified in all discussions just because you got in earlier in the cycle. Keep playing that card if you want, but it's hardly a qualification and mostly just makes you look petty.

I have to agree with you. I have been working in the OR for well over a decade and I have seen countless premed and med students come through. I can understand when someone is too shy or intimidated to make the most of the opportunity to shadow, but I will never understand those that stand against the wall, bored. Most surgeons who agree to allow students to shadow are those who absolutely love teaching. They often won't say much until you ask questions; they're not going to waste their breath on someone who is just there to check off another box. Oh, and I am still learning new things every day, particularly as I apply what I learn in class to procedures I've assisted on a hundred times and come up with questions. Even those surgeons that do not typically teach appreciate when someone is genuinely interested in a case. There is always something to learn if you're actually engaged in the OR.

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[Goldslugs]

Your depiction of yourself during the program has changed markedly since you started, from 'standing in the back of the room for 8hrs' to 'I was up front asking questions the whole time.' I still think that if you couldn't manage to find any value in the experience, you weren't looking to find any. My main beef on that front is that a lot of activities can be only box-checking, if you treat them as such...but they don't necessarily have to be. I think the surgical program is a great example of that. If there weren't a set period of time, I'd still be taking shifts, because I never felt as if I stopped getting something out of it.

And no, it wasn't simply that everything was new and bright and shiny. I've had plenty of exposure as well; I highly doubt that the difference between us is simply that you've seen *soooo* much more than me - in fact, given the hours you listed, I know you haven't. It's just that the surgical internship allowed me to see things that are exactly what interests me the most. I didn't run out of questions during my shifts, I didn't start finding the surgeries boring, etc. That doesn't mean I'm naive; it means I found it interesting. Those are not equivalent. Similarly, I never got bored with scribing after 1.5yrs of F/T. Sick of the low paycheck and long commute? Yes. Sick of the hospital portion? Nope. I still found it energizing, and hated leaving. I understand what it is you think explains my interest, but that simply wasn't it. I wasn't interested because it was new, I was interested because there was always something more to see or hear or discuss. Conversely, I got sick of both of my hospital volunteering positions because there was nobody available to help me learn more about what was going on. I was on my own, and after a while the novelty of examining adorable newborns wore off. I wanted to ask questions and see something beyond one part of the process. So I get what you're describing...it just doesn't apply in this case.

Furthermore, no...I don't think that you being accepted means you know any more about this ridiculous process. I'm having a 'rough cycle' (though I wouldn't actually describe it as such) because 8yrs ago, before I ever even considered going to med school, I didn't gaf about grades and was a B student who partied. That's it. Sure, you've got plenty of ground over 8-yrs-ago-me, but so does current-me. So please, get off your gorram high horse about having been accepted when it is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Finally, I'm not sure how saying "I want to learn Spanish to use with future patients" is a bad thing. I worked in CA hospitals near a rural area. I saw first-hand exactly how much of an impact this sort of thing can/does have on patients and their treatment, and I decided it was important to me to take the time to become fluent. I guess I don't gaf if that makes me a SJW.

You can call my depiction changing, but it hasn't. There was a lot of waiting around in the back, and I did ask a lot of questions, the two options are hardly mutually exclusive. The program was boring as **** for every reason I mentioned. Shadowing experiences don't offer much, but if you got as much out of it as you claim, then you should be using that to your advantage.

Grades aren't going to get you rejected post-interview, you definitely have some serious introspection to do if you honestly think that's it. What gets you rejected post-interview is a bad interview. A number of interviews and no acceptances is a bad cycle by any definition. Me being accepted has absolutely everything to do with this discussion since what you're saying is just conjecture, while what I say is established because I can talk and back it with my multiple acceptances, while you're empty handed, and are stuck constantly trying to rationalize and downplay why that is.

I'm still waiting to see why you're magically going to get in this cycle when you've struckout a lot. Do tell.🙄 cuz all i'm seeing is a bunch of BS hubris and empty talk. Perhaps if you didn't say/do what every premed does you'd have better luck. It looks like you basically just chose what you think sounds cool to adcoms and then tried to rationalize it. That's called doing it backwards. You do activities because they interest you and then don't get called out for being full of ****.

 

[mehc012]

Grades aren't going to get you rejected post-interview, you definitely have some serious introspection to do if you honestly think that's it. What gets you rejected post-interview is a bad interview. A number of interviews and no acceptances is a bad cycle by any definition.

Irrelevant to the subject at hand, but thanks for your continued analysis of my cycle.

Me being accepted has absolutely everything to do with this discussion since what you're saying is just conjecture, while what I say is established because I can talk and back it with my multiple acceptances, while you're empty handed, and are stuck constantly trying to rationalize and downplay why that is.

No, see, you're still wrong about this. My ideas won't magically convert from conjecture to gold as soon as I get an acceptance, and neither did yours. Acceptance means some school thinks you'll be a good medical student, not that you know everything about admissions, or shadowing, etc.

I'm still waiting to see why you're magically going to get in this cycle when you've struckout a lot. Do tell.🙄 cuz all i'm seeing is a bunch of BS hubris and empty talk. Perhaps if you didn't say/do what every premed does you'd have better luck. It looks like you basically just chose what you think sounds cool to adcoms and then tried to rationalize it. That's called doing it backwards. You do activities because they interest you and then don't get called out for being full of ****.

You've got this sooo backwards. It's funny, because I absolutely refuse to do activities simply because they'll sound good to adcoms. The closest I've come was to stick with my volunteering once I became bored with it, which a) I also did because I agreed to work a set minimum period and b) you also seem to support, since I don't hear you mentioning that you dropped out of that 'pointless' program.

Seriously, talking about what people get out of ECs is relevant and possibly worthwhile, but can you please stop trying to bring me to heel over my cycle? There are a ton of factors in that and the discussion really is NOT relevant here...even more so since you insist on going about it in a very rude, condescending fashion. Whether you think I'm right or wrong on this front, I do not and will not pretend that your opinion has more weight simply because you're accepted, no matter how much you insult my own application cycle, so you may as well give the subject up.

 

[Goldslugs]

Irrelevant to the subject at hand, but thanks for your continued analysis of my cycle.
No, see, you're still wrong about this. My ideas won't magically convert from conjecture to gold as soon as I get an acceptance, and neither did yours. Acceptance means some school thinks you'll be a good medical student, not that you know everything about admissions, or shadowing, etc.

You've got this sooo backwards. It's funny, because I absolutely refuse to do activities simply because they'll sound good to adcoms. The closest I've come was to stick with my volunteering once I became bored with it, which a) I also did because I agreed to work a set minimum period and b) you also seem to support, since I don't hear you mentioning that you dropped out of that 'pointless' program.

Seriously, talking about what people get out of ECs is relevant and possibly worthwhile, but can you please stop trying to bring me to heel over my cycle? There are a ton of factors in that and the discussion really is NOT relevant here...even more so since you insist on going about it in a very rude, condescending fashion. Whether you think I'm right or wrong on this front, I do not and will not pretend that your opinion has more weight simply because you're accepted, no matter how much you insult my own application cycle, so you may as well give the subject up.

Your experiences this cycle have absolutely everything to do with the discussion at hand because they show exactly how much you are missing the forest from the trees in every regard. Not to mention your online hubris shows exactly what would get a person like you rejected post-interview.

🤣🤣🤣. You applied to and interviewed at some of the schools most open-minded schools to non-trads and you want to call it "because of my grades and stuff that happened years ago" when you're being rejected post-interview. No matter how hard you try and rationalize it it doesn't work that way. You get rejected post-interview because of a bad interview, bottom line. I'd like to see how exactly you intend to back up your claim of getting in this cycle given where you are now, and how little you are willing to reflect, as shown here. There is a significant difference between me and you, and what it means to be accepted to medical school and sitting on the sidelines. I'm a master of this process, and this process is the master of you. Insulate yourself from the realities and my facts all you want, but being accepted in this cutthroat process shows I have excelled in all areas of my application therefore I am an expert. You know damn well how much effort on all fronts it takes to succeed in this process and if you didn't you should have realized it by now as you continue to turn up empty-handed. It takes a ****ing champion to make it through this process and that's what I am. I don't pretend I know everything, but I know a lot more than you do, since your lack of an acceptance shows you're definitely missing more than a few parts of the package. You can either heed it or continue to hide behind false hubris, either way you're gonna have to figure it out sooner or late if you want to be more than empty talk aka actually getting in.

Your comment about me not dropping out is pointless, you bet your ass I'd finish that program because even though it was **** and boring for its entirety it looked damn good even though that program's talk is much like putting a new paint job on a beater. It sounds good but once you brush past the bs, you're stuck with absolute trash. I'm against box-checking, but this is one exception. Only a fool would pay the money, hang-around during the dragged out 3 day workshop that was never built upon, and say **** it. That's not an argument.

 

[mehc012]

Your experiences this cycle have absolutely everything to do with the discussion at hand because they show exactly how much you are missing the forest from the trees in every regard. Not to mention your online hubris shows exactly what would get a person like you rejected post-interview.

🤣🤣🤣. You applied to and interviewed at some of the schools most open-minded schools to non-trads and you want to call it "because of my grades and stuff that happened years ago" when you're being rejected post-interview. No matter how hard you try and rationalize it it doesn't work that way. You get rejected post-interview because of a bad interview, bottom line. I'd like to see how exactly you intend to back up your claim of getting in this cycle given where you are now, and how little you are willing to reflect, as shown here. There is a significant difference between me and you, and what it means to be accepted to medical school and sitting on the sidelines. I'm a master of this process, and this process is the master of you. Insulate yourself from the realities and my facts all you want, but being accepted in this cutthroat process shows I have excelled in all areas of my application therefore I am an expert. You know damn well how much effort on all fronts it takes to succeed in this process and if you didn't you should have realized it by now as you continue to turn up empty-handed. It takes a ****ing champion to make it through this process and that's what I am. I don't pretend I know everything, but I know a lot more than you do, since your lack of an acceptance shows you're definitely missing more than a few parts of the package. You can either heed it or continue to hide behind false hubris, either way you're gonna have to figure it out sooner or late if you want to be more than empty talk aka actually getting in.

Your comment about me not dropping out is pointless, you bet your ass I'd finish that program because even though it was **** and boring for its entirety it looked damn good even though that program's talk is much like putting a new paint job on a beater. It sounds good but once you brush past the bs, you're stuck with absolute trash. I'm against box-checking, but this is one exception. Only a fool would pay the money, hang-around during the dragged out 3 day workshop that was never built upon, and say **** it. That's not an argument.

That's all nice and all, but this isn't actually a thread about 'should mehc012 get into med school, why/why not, and what should she fix to do so.' I'm neither reflecting nor 'backing up my claim' (nor making any claims) because I'm trying not to veer off into discussing my application right now. It's not relevant.

I find it hilarious to hear you talk about hubris and then spout bullcrap like
"I'm a master of this process...I have excelled in all areas of my application therefore I am an expert. It takes a ****ing champion to make it through this process and that's what I am."

It's almost as good as your hypocritical rants against box-checking while you post about all the boxes you've checked and how little you cared about any of the things you were actually seeing.
🤣

 

[eagles22]

And for everyone who isn't Goldslugs, the last paragraph above seems like an important distinction to me: I feel that there is a difference between a quick trip where you get *feels* from helping people (potentially in a very short term way) and one which you undertake in order to actually learn a new skill or perspective. Your warm fuzzies aren't going to help anyone when you come back home, even if you truly did help a handful of people on your trip. Learning to communicate, whether explicitly by breaking a language barrier, or subtly by broadening your perspective and learning to relate to people with different backgrounds from your own - that can make a difference throughout your career. And it's hard to tell, just from a description of the trip, what the person took away from the experience. That's what makes this such a mess to discuss in an admissions context.

Volunteering should never be about you learning a new skill. It should be about you helping with the skills you already have. That's why all of these unskilled students going out of the country without any useful skills is an affront to the communities they go in to.

If you need/want to learn something you go to school or do an apprenticeship. You don't ship out to another country with lax regulation to do it without proper training.

 

[Lucca]

Your experiences this cycle have absolutely everything to do with the discussion at hand because they show exactly how much you are missing the forest from the trees in every regard. Not to mention your online hubris shows exactly what would get a person like you rejected post-interview.

🤣🤣🤣. You applied to and interviewed at some of the schools most open-minded schools to non-trads and you want to call it "because of my grades and stuff that happened years ago" when you're being rejected post-interview. No matter how hard you try and rationalize it it doesn't work that way. You get rejected post-interview because of a bad interview, bottom line. I'd like to see how exactly you intend to back up your claim of getting in this cycle given where you are now, and how little you are willing to reflect, as shown here. There is a significant difference between me and you, and what it means to be accepted to medical school and sitting on the sidelines. I'm a master of this process, and this process is the master of you. Insulate yourself from the realities and my facts all you want, but being accepted in this cutthroat process shows I have excelled in all areas of my application therefore I am an expert. You know damn well how much effort on all fronts it takes to succeed in this process and if you didn't you should have realized it by now as you continue to turn up empty-handed. It takes a ****ing champion to make it through this process and that's what I am. I don't pretend I know everything, but I know a lot more than you do, since your lack of an acceptance shows you're definitely missing more than a few parts of the package. You can either heed it or continue to hide behind false hubris, either way you're gonna have to figure it out sooner or late if you want to be more than empty talk aka actually getting in.

Your comment about me not dropping out is pointless, you bet your ass I'd finish that program because even though it was **** and boring for its entirety it looked damn good even though that program's talk is much like putting a new paint job on a beater. It sounds good but once you brush past the bs, you're stuck with absolute trash. I'm against box-checking, but this is one exception. Only a fool would pay the money, hang-around during the dragged out 3 day workshop that was never built upon, and say **** it. That's not an argument.

Can we get a warning before you masturbate in public.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Your experiences this cycle have absolutely everything to do with the discussion at hand because they show exactly how much you are missing the forest from the trees in every regard. Not to mention your online hubris shows exactly what would get a person like you rejected post-interview.

🤣🤣🤣. You applied to and interviewed at some of the schools most open-minded schools to non-trads and you want to call it "because of my grades and stuff that happened years ago" when you're being rejected post-interview. No matter how hard you try and rationalize it it doesn't work that way. You get rejected post-interview because of a bad interview, bottom line. I'd like to see how exactly you intend to back up your claim of getting in this cycle given where you are now, and how little you are willing to reflect, as shown here. There is a significant difference between me and you, and what it means to be accepted to medical school and sitting on the sidelines. I'm a master of this process, and this process is the master of you. Insulate yourself from the realities and my facts all you want, but being accepted in this cutthroat process shows I have excelled in all areas of my application therefore I am an expert. You know damn well how much effort on all fronts it takes to succeed in this process and if you didn't you should have realized it by now as you continue to turn up empty-handed. It takes a ****ing champion to make it through this process and that's what I am. I don't pretend I know everything, but I know a lot more than you do, since your lack of an acceptance shows you're definitely missing more than a few parts of the package. You can either heed it or continue to hide behind false hubris, either way you're gonna have to figure it out sooner or late if you want to be more than empty talk aka actually getting in.

Your comment about me not dropping out is pointless, you bet your ass I'd finish that program because even though it was **** and boring for its entirety it looked damn good even though that program's talk is much like putting a new paint job on a beater. It sounds good but once you brush past the bs, you're stuck with absolute trash. I'm against box-checking, but this is one exception. Only a fool would pay the money, hang-around during the dragged out 3 day workshop that was never built upon, and say **** it. That's not an argument.

You continue to respawn with the same ridiculous attacks, yet assume that no one's gonna catch on?!

And who are you to criticize someone's cycle considering how much you've spammed this forum with incessant questions when things weren't going well for you...

 

[mehc012]

Volunteering should never be about you learning a new skill. It should be about you helping with the skills you already have. That's why all of these unskilled students going out of the country without any useful skills is an affront to the communities they go in to.

If you need/want to learn something you go to school or do an apprenticeship. You don't ship out to another country with lax regulation to do it without proper training.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I didn't mean to come across that way.
The only skill I really meant was language, really, and that was more aimed at the 'travel' part of the discussion than the 'volunteer' part.

I tend to focus on the 'travel' part because otherwise, we're just discussing the utility of volunteering as a whole, which doesn't seem to be as contentious on the adcom front. To me, in order to paint travel as something relevant to an application, you should learn something that will make you a better doc in the future; otherwise you could just as easily have volunteered at home - and that begins to beg the question 'why did you do this abroad and not at home?', one of the answers to which is 'because I could do cooler (aka unethical) stuff abroad', and another of which is that you don't understand the difference between helping the poor people to make yourself feel better and helping them to actually make a difference. Not that everyone who volunteers abroad falls into those two traps, but I feel that, unless they demonstrate either specific motivation or personal growth related to the travel, those things are potential concerns. And to me, travel most easily leads to a growth in perspective and/or language skills.

Beyond this, however, I will say that I think you should always be trying to learn from whatever experiences you get. It's possible to help people and learn from the experience, and I would hope that the lessons gained from volunteering would enable you to help more people in the future. I don't think that learning has to be exploitative in any way; it just requires an open mind.

 

[owlegrad]

Please keep the discussion professional and polite.

mehc I am digging the avatar and signature BTW

 

[Goldslugs]

That's all nice and all, but this isn't actually a thread about 'should mehc012 get into med school, why/why not, and what should she fix to do so.' I'm neither reflecting nor 'backing up my claim' (nor making any claims) because I'm trying not to veer off into discussing my application right now. It's not relevant.

I find it hilarious to hear you talk about hubris and then spout bullcrap like
"I'm a master of this process...I have excelled in all areas of my application therefore I am an expert. It takes a ****ing champion to make it through this process and that's what I am."

It's almost as good as your hypocritical rants against box-checking while you post about all the boxes you've checked and how little you cared about any of the things you were actually seeing.
🤣

Lmfso They ain't rants. I can talk and back it up with the facts. You are full of hubris, you made ridiculous assumptions about the surgical internship just bc I didn't like it, you claim you're getting in somewhere when the results of your cycle clearly show otherwise, and you refuse to acknowledge where the fault actually is on your part. I see nothing but hubris on your part.

You need to put up or shut up about you getting in because the odds are clearly stacked against you I'd love for you to actually be able to backup your comments, but unfortunately you haven't done that, which is why you got a reality check from me.

 

[hailbate]

Lmfso They ain't rants. I can talk and back it up with the facts. You are full of hubris, you made ridiculous assumptions about the surgical internship just bc I didn't like it, you claim you're getting in somewhere when the results of your cycle clearly show otherwise, and you refuse to acknowledge where the fault actually is on your part. I see nothing but hubris on your part.

You need to put up or shut up about you getting in because the odds are clearly stacked against you I'd love for you to actually be able to backup your comments, but unfortunately you haven't done that, which is why you got a reality check from me.

Well at the end of the day, even if mehc012 doesn't get into med school this cycle, that's better than having your personality 😛

 

[NicMouse64]

Step 1: Major in engineering
Step 2: do Engineering without borders
Step3: Feel like you are doing something important for communities outside of the U.S. where they have neither the technical training or resources (computers, etc.) to finish the job.

I am genuinely curious what @Goro , and @gyngyn think of trips where the main focus is building things that are useful to communities but require technical skills that can't be found inland (also basic projects similar to those done in haiti aren't necessary in the U.S.)

 

[Officer Farva]

Genuinely confused by this thread. If those trips don't matter, why is global health such a buzzword on admissions websites?

 

[haaaaaaaaaaveyoumetted]

Genuinely confused by this thread. If those trips don't matter, why is global health such a buzzword on admissions websites?

Because the pursuit of global health equity and epidemiology is not the same as these trips (see article at top of thread)

 

[haaaaaaaaaaveyoumetted]

Step 1: Major in engineering
Step 2: do Engineering without borders
Step3: Feel like you are doing something important for communities outside of the U.S. where they have neither the technical training or resources (computers, etc.) to finish the job.

I am genuinely curious what @Goro , and @gyngyn think of trips where the main focus is building things that are useful to communities but require technical skills that can't be found inland (also basic projects similar to those done in haiti aren't necessary in the U.S.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pippa-biddle/little-white-girls-voluntourism_b_4834574.html

This girl writes about how as a high school student, she went on a "building trip" but the results were profoundly negative due to them not being qualified in construction.
I feel as though programs training community members to build and maintain these structures reach much farther. While helping build can certainly be beneficial ("the town needed a library and we built one") it makes more sense to train individuals in the community while providing materials than to force the community to rely on Western trips

Another good example of this is the issue with well-building trips and fundraisers. There are now tons of broken down, useless wells in the African continent because no local workers were consulted on how to maintain and fix the wells and boreholes. Again, had the projects been performed differently and included the community they aimed to help, this would not be a problem (or if donating workers/money to fix the wells were considered as glamorous as building them in the first place)
See: http://www.theguardian.com/society/katineblog/2009/mar/26/water-projects-wasted-money

 

[Goro]

Agree 1000% percent. A short visit isn't going to fix things. Peace Corps is considered one of the most admirable types of support because the volunteers become part of the community, and establish the fixes to be permanent...by teaching the locals how to help themselves.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pippa-biddle/little-white-girls-voluntourism_b_4834574.html

This girl writes about how as a high school student, she went on a "building trip" but the results were profoundly negative due to them not being qualified in construction.
I feel as though programs training community members to build and maintain these structures reach much farther. While helping build can certainly be beneficial ("the town needed a library and we built one") it makes more sense to train individuals in the community while providing materials than to force the community to rely on Western trips

Another good example of this is the issue with well-building trips and fundraisers. There are now tons of broken down, useless wells in the African continent because no local workers were consulted on how to maintain and fix the wells and boreholes. Again, had the projects been performed differently and included the community they aimed to help, this would not be a problem (or if donating workers/money to fix the wells were considered as glamorous as building them in the first place)
See: http://www.theguardian.com/society/katineblog/2009/mar/26/water-projects-wasted-money

 

[njtrimed]

Volunteering should never be about you learning a new skill. It should be about you helping with the skills you already have. That's why all of these unskilled students going out of the country without any useful skills is an affront to the communities they go in to.

If you need/want to learn something you go to school or do an apprenticeship. You don't ship out to another country with lax regulation to do it without proper training.

I agree with this statement completely. I am curious, however, what you think of medical students and residents joining the mission trips I've done abroad (I went as a healthcare professional performing my normal role, not as an unskilled premed). Realistically, only the senior residents were really performing surgery and the junior residents and medical students were primarily there to learn. They were obviously there working with the same attending physicians who teach them here in the U.S. Do you think this is a problem?

 

[Benjoe11]

For my own curiosity, when does the opinions of these types of trips flip from being condemned to being admirable? Obviously a 2 weeks of voluntourism is not something to be really championed and a 2 years living and serving somewhere is. I'm just curious as to what point these service trips are viewed as more of a commitment and actually can do some good in a population. If at all.

 

[NicMouse64]

Agree 1000% percent. A short visit isn't going to fix things. Peace Corps is considered one of the most admirable types of support because the volunteers become part of the community, and establish the fixes to be permanent...by teaching the locals how to help themselves.

My school's EWB chapter did a project last year that helped set up electrical power to a local village in africa. The project required building a bridge (statics and hydrology knowledge), converting DC electric to AC, teaching maintenance, etc. I feel like a lot of this required intense technical skills that the local schools didn't have the resources to teach. I am not sure however if the chapter taught the locals how to maintain or fix hiccups in the electrical system.

 

[Goro]

You touch upon it right here I don't think that there is a magic number, like 30 being the start of competitive MCAT scores. It's a situation where one demonstrates prolonged commitment, and not's not about you, and all about them. Two weeks is not the same as two months which is not the same as two years.

For my own curiosity, when does the opinions of these types of trips flip from being condemned to being admirable? Obviously a 2 weeks of voluntourism is not something to be really championed and a 2 years living and serving somewhere is. I'm just curious as to what point these service trips are viewed as more of a commitment and actually can do some good in a population. If at all.

 

[njtrimed]

For my own curiosity, when does the opinions of these types of trips flip from being condemned to being admirable? Obviously a 2 weeks of voluntourism is not something to be really championed and a 2 years living and serving somewhere is. I'm just curious as to what point these service trips are viewed as more of a commitment and actually can do some good in a population. If at all.

I think the mission trips I have done make a difference. We operate on hundreds (now well into the thousands) of people who have little to no access to healthcare of any kind. We return to the same region every year and work with local physicians who provide follow up care, and even operate on the same patients multiple times if they require several surgeries. The surgeon who runs this mission was born and raised in that area and still has family there, and wants to help the community he's from. He started returning to volunteer after he finished residency and since that time, has recruited a few dozen of his colleagues to provide more care. Everybody on our mission is fully qualified and must provide license information, CVs, etc., so prior to reading on this forum, I was unaware that "voluntourism" was a thing.

 

[Planes2Doc]

For my own curiosity, when does the opinions of these types of trips flip from being condemned to being admirable? Obviously a 2 weeks of voluntourism is not something to be really championed and a 2 years living and serving somewhere is. I'm just curious as to what point these service trips are viewed as more of a commitment and actually can do some good in a population. If at all.

I think that if you continue to be committed to the region, then that would look good assuming you go for a short duration trip. For instance, this would mean that you go on a trip of let's say two weeks duration, then after you raise money somehow for medicine, supplies, and other important things to send to the region. Then going again to the same place would look good too.

Also, some people are connected to a place because of their culture. For example, when Luol Deng played for the Chicago Bulls, he held a basketball clinic for children that raised money to send to Darfur because he is from there. Other people do the same thing when they are helping out a region that they either came from, or have other strong legitimate connections with. If a student went on a one week trip to Caldera, Costa Rica (I randomly looked on a map), then I'd be curious to see why they are passionate specifically about this place. Is it because of legitimate reasons, or is it because the trip they went on was, but not limited to, one of the following:

1. Cheapest trip
2. Nicest accomodations
3. Most fun itinerary
4. Close to a beach
5. Fit their schedule the best
6. Most photo opportunities with locals
7. Ability to do procedures (this is unethical, but uninformed pre-meds will still innocently believe this will help their application)
8. Their friends are going on it
9. And anything else

So if it's one of the reasons above, then I wouldn't be impressed.

Things like Peace Corps will look good, but that is a serious commitment, and you need to be sure that you are willing to put forth the sacrifices in order to do this.