Will MD schools consider podiatry as relevant clinical experience?

[Gladiolus23]

The closest clinic near my home where I can scribe at is a podiatry clinic. Now, I'm not interested in pods at all and will only be applying to MD schools. I'm still looking for better scribe jobs, but so far, all of the hospital ED positions are filled and the rest are an hour away 🙁 Would MD schools be okay with podiatry scribing as clinical experience? Will they ask me why I don't just do pods instead since I was "interested" enough to take the position? I'm wondering if I should just leave this off my app…

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The closest clinic near my home where I can scribe at is a podiatry clinic. Now, I'm not interested in pods at all and will only be applying to MD schools. I'm still looking for better scribe jobs, but so far, all of the hospital ED positions are filled and the rest are an hour away 🙁 Would MD schools be okay with podiatry scribing as clinical experience? Will they ask me why I don't just do pods instead since I was "interested" enough to take the position? I'm wondering if I should just leave this off my app…

It's still employment experience. I think they'll still want to see you have experience with a physician though, for sure.

 

[Weirdy]

The closest clinic near my home where I can scribe at is a podiatry clinic. Now, I'm not interested in pods at all and will only be applying to MD schools. I'm still looking for better scribe jobs, but so far, all of the hospital ED positions are filled and the rest are an hour away 🙁 Would MD schools be okay with podiatry scribing as clinical experience? Will they ask me why I don't just do pods instead since I was "interested" enough to take the position? I'm wondering if I should just leave this off my app…

What Matthew said.

Do your best to find something more relevant to MD/DO for clinical exposure.

While it still counts as work experience, a podiatry clinic is not representative of the exposure you need for MD programs.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

a DPM would be no different than scribing for MD/DO in terms of observing how a physician interacts with a patient

podiatrists are not physicians. but the substance of your post is one i agree with

 

[Weirdy]

podiatrists are not physicians. but the substance of your post is one i agree with

🙁

I believe they are physicians. Very limited, but still a physician. Quality will vary.

Agree to disagree?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

🙁

I believe they are physicians. Very limited, but still a physician. Quality will vary.

Agree to disagree?

Well, the CFR says that a physician includes MDs, DOs, DPMs, ODs, and chiropractors (included if they are doing manipulations only, and only so that they may bill for services), within the bounds of state law.

And California differentiates between physicians and doctors of podiatric medicine. In fact, it specifically states that only an MD or DO can use the term physician.

So in Cali, at least, no. There's nothing to argue about. 😉

 

[Weirdy]

Well, the CFR says that a physician includes MDs, DOs, DPMs, ODs, and chiropractors (included if they are doing manipulations only, and only so that they may bill for services), within the bounds of state law.

And California differentiates between physicians and doctors of podiatric medicine. In fact, it specifically states that only an MD or DO can use the term physician.

So in Cali, at least, no. There's nothing to argue about. 😉

Ah ok this makes sense.

My fault for being ignorant, should've looked it up.

Ready for rogue unicorn to rip me a new one.

 

[libertyyne]

Yes. If people think scribing is clinical experience I am unsure on how this wouldn't be considered that? Think about the clinical experience a vast majority of applicants will have as hospital volunteers? IMHO, they just want to see if you can handle dealing with the public in such interactions, and you know what you are getting into.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

🙁

I believe they are physicians. Very limited, but still a physician. Quality will vary.

Agree to disagree?

I think podiatrists are great. But the word physic means medicine and I think most podiatrists agree they are doctors of feet, not medicine.

 

[Weirdy]

I think podiatrists are great. But the word physic means medicine and I think most podiatrists agree they are doctors of feet, not medicine.

Agreed.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yes. If people think scribing is clinical experience I am unsure on how this wouldn't be considered that? Think about the clinical experience a vast majority of applicants will have as hospital volunteers? IMHO, they just want to see if you can handle dealing with the public in such interactions, and you know what you are getting into.

Agreed. But I doubt a DPM would be satisfactory for showing you've seen what an MD/DO does on a daily basis, as they are not the same outside of possibly a F&A orthopod.

 

[Psai]

🙁

I believe they are physicians. Very limited, but still a physician. Quality will vary.

Agree to disagree?

You can call yourself a physician without me laughing at you if you go to medical school and get an MD or DO.

 

[Weirdy]

You can call yourself a physician without me laughing at you if you go to medical school and get an MD or DO.

Understood.

Most, if not all podiatrists will agree with you.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I think podiatrists are great. But the word physic means medicine and I think most podiatrists agree they are doctors of feet, not medicine.

Medicine is defined as "the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease" and "the science and art dealing with maintenance of health and the prevention, alleviation, or cure of disease".

Podiatrists may practice in one specific region of the body (as do many specialists), but what they practice in that region is most certainly medicine—from diagnosis through treatment.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/medicine
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/medicine

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Medicine is defined as "the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease" and "the science and art dealing with maintenance of health and the prevention, alleviation, or cure of disease".

Podiatrists may practice in one specific region of the body (as do many specialists), but what they practice in that region is most certainly medicine—from diagnosis through treatment.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/medicine
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/medicine

That's nice, I'm sure that's why you're working towards a doctorate in medicine. Oh.

 

[Weirdy]

Aw come on guys.

Was really hoping we'd avoid this flame war.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Medicine is defined as "the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease" and "the science and art dealing with maintenance of health and the prevention, alleviation, or cure of disease".

Podiatrists may practice in one specific region of the body (as do many specialists), but what they practice in that region is most certainly medicine—from diagnosis through treatment.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/medicine
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/medicine

Doesn't matter how you want to argue semantics if state law says they aren't physicians.

 

[KShah1]

The closest clinic near my home where I can scribe at is a podiatry clinic. Now, I'm not interested in pods at all and will only be applying to MD schools. I'm still looking for better scribe jobs, but so far, all of the hospital ED positions are filled and the rest are an hour away 🙁 Would MD schools be okay with podiatry scribing as clinical experience? Will they ask me why I don't just do pods instead since I was "interested" enough to take the position? I'm wondering if I should just leave this off my app…

Literally, no one will care.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Doesn't matter how you want to argue semantics if state law says they aren't physicians.

To clarify for anyone who stumbles across this thread in the future, most states do refer to podiatrists as physicians in their laws.

From Ohio Administrative Code: 5160-7-01
A doctor of podiatric medicine is included within the definition of "physician" ...

From Iowa Administrative Code: 149.1
"Podiatric physician" means a physician or surgeon licensed under this chapter to engage in the practice of podiatric medicine and surgery.

From Florida Statute: 461.003
"Podiatric physician" means any person licensed to practice podiatric medicine...

From Oklahoma Administrative Code: Title 59, Section 136
"Podiatric physician", "doctor of podiatric medicine", and "podiatrist" are synonymous...

Et cetera...you get the point.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

To clarify for anyone who stumbles across this thread in the future, most states do refer to podiatrists as physicians in their laws.

From Ohio Administrative Code: 5160-7-01
A doctor of podiatric medicine is included within the definition of "physician" ...

From Iowa Administrative Code: 149.1
"Podiatric physician" means a physician or surgeon licensed under this chapter to engage in the practice of podiatric medicine and surgery.

From Florida Statute: 461.003
"Podiatric physician" means any person licensed to practice podiatric medicine...

From Oklahoma Administrative Code: Title 59, Section 136
"Podiatric physician", "doctor of podiatric medicine", and "podiatrist" are synonymous...

Et cetera...you get the point.

We were taking about California specifically. And saying "podiatric physician" is not the same as saying "physician." Hence the definitions.

 

[bobtheweazel]

We were taking about California specifically. And saying "podiatric physician" is not the same as saying "physician." Hence the definitions.

That's how administrative code works, they start with definitions. Furthermore some states define osteopaths as osteopathic physicians, so I guess DOs aren't real physicians either by your standards.

California has a joint task force between California's orthopedic association, medical association, and podiatric medical association looking into giving podiatrists the "physician and surgeon certificate" in California, basically the plenary license that MDs and DOs enjoy. Last update I heard the task force had reviewed podiatric medical education and residency training (including on site reviews by the task force) and found it equivalent to MD/DO education and if they stay on track the three associations would introduce legislation to make that happen in Cali within the next year or two. So to clarify that further, they are not currently classified as physicians by California law but a group of MDs (including orthopedists) has reviewed curriculum of podiatry schools and residencies and done on site evaluations as well and has so far agreed that what thay've seen is equivalent to earn the plenary license—that's more research than anyone posting on SDN has done into the matter, so you can try to tell them why you feel its not equivalent.

Furthermore, in an instance like that first reference I posted, it clearly states that podiatrists fall under the definition of "physician". I don't see how you could argue against that.

Lastly, nobody is saying that podiatrists are physicians who specialize in spinal surgery, or ophthalmology, or whatever. They are physicians who specialize in the lower extremity (in most states up to the tibial tubercle, in some states up to the hip), and so yes the term "podiatric physician" describes them succinctly.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's how administrative code works, they start with definitions. Furthermore some states define osteopaths as osteopathic physicians, so I guess DOs aren't real physicians either by your standards.

California has a joint task force between California's orthopedic association, medical association, and podiatric medical association looking into giving podiatrists the "physician and surgeon certificate" in California, basically the plenary license that MDs and DOs enjoy. Last update I heard the task force had reviewed podiatric medical education and residency training (including on site reviews by the task force) and found it equivalent to MD/DO education and if they stay on track the three associations would introduce legislation to make that happen in Cali within the next year or two. So to clarify that further, they are not currently classified as physicians by California law but a group of MDs (including orthopedists) has reviewed curriculum of podiatry schools and residencies and done on site evaluations as well and has so far agreed that what thay've seen is equivalent to earn the plenary license—that's more research than anyone posting on SDN has done into the matter, so you can try to tell them why you feel its not equivalent.

That's great. As the law stands, it says very clearly that if you use the term physician, you had better be a medical school graduate. That's not a judgement on podiatrists, just a statement of law. California doesn't say anything about having to be an allopathic physician, so I'm not sure where the DO argument comes into play.

Furthermore, in an instance like that first reference I posted, it clearly states that podiatrists fall under the definition of "physician". I don't see how you could argue against that.

I wasn't. I was arguing that a podiatric physician and a physician aren't the same thing, and if the law specifically states that podiatrists have to say "podiatric physician" vice "physician," then they aren't considered just physicians the way MDs/DOs are under the law. Again, no judgment. Just stating the obvious really.

Lastly, nobody is saying that podiatrists are physicians who specialize in spinal surgery, or ophthalmology, or whatever. They are physicians who specialize in the lower extremity (in most states up to the tibial tubercle, in some states up to the hip), and so yes the term "podiatric physician" describes them succinctly.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

Podiatrists are podiatrists. Dentists aren't arguing that they are dental physicians who specialize in teeth. Not sure why so many podiatrists feel like they need to somehow get the word physician into their title.

 

[OchemOficionado]

Lol, people!

 

[podankle]

so even though podiatrists perform ORIF of ankle fractures, total ankle replacements, calcaneal fractures, I&D, treat osteomyelitis... we still aren't considered physicians?

 

[navigator]

To answer your question, OP, shadowing a podiatrist would absolutely count as clinical experience, at least at my school!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

so even though podiatrists perform ORIF of ankle fractures, total ankle replacements, calcaneal fractures, I&D, treat osteomyelitis... we still aren't considered physicians?

Do you consider a dentist a physician?

 

[Lawpy]

so even though podiatrists perform ORIF of ankle fractures, total ankle replacements, calcaneal fractures, I&D, treat osteomyelitis... we still aren't considered physicians?

Do you consider a dentist a physician?

i think podiatry should be a medical specialty for medical graduates (i.e. graduates from medical schools). i don't see the purpose of podiatry schools honestly.

 

[LutGholein]

i think podiatry should be a medical specialty for medical graduates (i.e. graduates from medical schools). i don't see the purpose of podiatry schools honestly.

It's history. Historically it just ended up like this-- I know a lot of folks who think "foot doctors"(as they call them) are medical grads who specialized in the foot. It's just quirky.

 

[LizzyM]

The closest clinic near my home where I can scribe at is a podiatry clinic. Now, I'm not interested in pods at all and will only be applying to MD schools. I'm still looking for better scribe jobs, but so far, all of the hospital ED positions are filled and the rest are an hour away 🙁 Would MD schools be okay with podiatry scribing as clinical experience? Will they ask me why I don't just do pods instead since I was "interested" enough to take the position? I'm wondering if I should just leave this off my app…

Based on my definition, which is about patients not physicians, it is a clinical experience.

 

[BeddingfieldMD]

The closest clinic near my home where I can scribe at is a podiatry clinic. Now, I'm not interested in pods at all and will only be applying to MD schools. I'm still looking for better scribe jobs, but so far, all of the hospital ED positions are filled and the rest are an hour away 🙁 Would MD schools be okay with podiatry scribing as clinical experience? Will they ask me why I don't just do pods instead since I was "interested" enough to take the position? I'm wondering if I should just leave this off my app…

I don't think this will be a major issue. It's clinical experience, and per your description it sounds like logistically it's your best option.

Perhaps you could round out your experience/clinical exposure by doing some research or shadowing a physician at your undergraduate institution--if it has an associated med school? Or perhaps even just writing physicians near your college to see if any will let you shadow them for a few days? Anything can help, and at least that way you could say you've also been exposed to medical doctors in addition to podiatrists. In other words, don't limit your attempts to gain exposure to physicians to paying positions such as scribing or being a technician.