Will optometry ever disappear?

[Smorr18]

I was just thinking...many people don't even go to optometrists because they're covered by health insurance to see ophthalmologists. Do you think in the future more and more people will take this route...making an optometrist no longer a "primary" care provider? Even my dad, when he got something in his eye, he immediately thought to go to an ophthalmologist because he was certain he scratched his eye, as well as for costs. I know I'm being a little ridiculous, but I plan to be an optometrist, and to me it's weird to think that an ophthalmologist can do most of the eye care provided by an optometrist, or at least that's the way a lot of people think. I know optometrists are usually much better at refractions due to schooling. Anyways, what do you all think about this?

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[cpw]

most people with something stuck in their eye care not whether you're on their insurance or not.. they just want the thing OUT OF THEIR EYE!

 

[luckyfool]

I was just thinking...many people don't even go to optometrists because they're covered by health insurance to see ophthalmologists. Do you think in the future more and more people will take this route...making an optometrist no longer a "primary" care provider? Even my dad, when he got something in his eye, he immediately thought to go to an ophthalmologist because he was certain he scratched his eye, as well as for costs. I know I'm being a little ridiculous, but I plan to be an optometrist, and to me it's weird to think that an ophthalmologist can do most of the eye care provided by an optometrist, or at least that's the way a lot of people think. I know optometrists are usually much better at refractions due to schooling. Anyways, what do you all think about this?

Most optometrists accept insurance nowadays. So cost shouldn't be an issue. When speaking about removing foreign objects from inside the eye, I think eyeMD would do a better job than optometrists. However, this is only a small thing. The optometry profession won't disappear simply because people prefer MDs over ODs when they want foreign objects removed from their eyes.

 

[drsax]

I am still learning about the laws as far as scope of practices for ODs, but has it ever been brought up for optometrist to have the exclusive right to refract (meaning opticians and OMDs can't refract)? If OMD's can fight for the right to be the sole provider of eye surgery, then OD's should be the sole provider of refractions. Just curious.

 

[Ben Chudner]

I am still learning about the laws as far as scope of practices for ODs, but has it ever been brought up for optometrist to have the exclusive right to refract (meaning opticians and OMDs can't refract)? If OMD's can fight for the right to be the sole provider of eye surgery, then OD's should be the sole provider of refractions. Just curious.

Opticians cannot refract without supervision, and there is no ethical, medical or legal reason to try to prevent ophthalmologists from being able to refract.

 

[PBEA]

I was just thinking...many people don't even go to optometrists because they're covered by health insurance to see ophthalmologists. Do you think in the future more and more people will take this route...making an optometrist no longer a "primary" care provider? Even my dad, when he got something in his eye, he immediately thought to go to an ophthalmologist because he was certain he scratched his eye, as well as for costs. I know I'm being a little ridiculous, but I plan to be an optometrist, and to me it's weird to think that an ophthalmologist can do most of the eye care provided by an optometrist, or at least that's the way a lot of people think. I know optometrists are usually much better at refractions due to schooling. Anyways, what do you all think about this?

Your Dad is covered by his health insurance if he visits an OD or MD who participates in his insurance plan. Doctors choose to be on an insurance panel, not the other way around. Another OD school is opening up, and the emergence of OD's as the primary eyecare provider is a relatively recent and growing trend not a shrinking one. The idea that OD's will "disappear" is ludicrous.

 

[alferec]

I was just thinking...many people don't even go to optometrists because they're covered by health insurance to see ophthalmologists. Do you think in the future more and more people will take this route...making an optometrist no longer a "primary" care provider? Even my dad, when he got something in his eye, he immediately thought to go to an ophthalmologist because he was certain he scratched his eye, as well as for costs. I know I'm being a little ridiculous, but I plan to be an optometrist, and to me it's weird to think that an ophthalmologist can do most of the eye care provided by an optometrist, or at least that's the way a lot of people think. I know optometrists are usually much better at refractions due to schooling. Anyways, what do you all think about this?

Many employers offer vision plans to their employees too, actually. I don't know if this is true for other vision plans, but the one I had previously (Superior Vision) did not have a copay for an optometrist visit, but had a copay for an ophthalmologist visit.

 

[stevec]

I am still learning about the laws as far as scope of practices for ODs, but has it ever been brought up for optometrist to have the exclusive right to refract (meaning opticians and OMDs can't refract)? If OMD's can fight for the right to be the sole provider of eye surgery, then OD's should be the sole provider of refractions. Just curious.

Hell, even a gynecologist can write himself a prescription for eyeglasses as unfair as that seems.

 

[iiiimonica]

Hell, even a gynecologist can write himself a prescription for eyeglasses as unfair as that seems.

talk about vertex distance issues...

 

[rpames]

Being a 4th year OD student, I can say..."A good refraction is a combination of art, skill, and science...but a functional refraction is not hard for anything with thumbs to find."

 

[cpw]

talk about vertex distance issues...

 

[PBEA]

Where is that extra mag when you want it

 

[gtnpaid]

Well Smorr18, I would say Optometry is probably not the field for you. I say this not to disappoint you; but your attitude toward the field is already negative as well as your fathers. If you are set on becoming an optometrist, you would have searched long and hard to understand the profession and understand that every optometrist, upon graduation, is capable of primary eye care at the same level of competency as OMD's...it's the law in my state that is. For example, in my state, I am considered an Optometric Glaucoma Specialist, which allows me to practice to the full extent of my education. Therefore, the laws in my state say that I (OD) and my fellow Ophthalmologist (OMD) are responsible at the same level of care within primary care. We are both responsible to treat corneal abrasions, or any other red eye, at the same expertise, no exceptions. Again, this is the law...we are equal up to the point of major surgical procedures in my state.


The many people that you speak of is unrealistic because you are not clear on these statistics.

Research Optometry and find out the true extent of the profession.

 

[orangezero]

Well Smorr18, I would say Optometry is probably not the field for you. I say this not to disappoint you; but your attitude toward the field is already negative as well as your fathers. If you are set on becoming an optometrist, you would have searched long and hard to understand the profession and understand that every optometrist, upon graduation, is capable of primary eye care at the same level of competency as OMD's...it's the law in my state that is. For example, in my state, I am considered an Optometric Glaucoma Specialist, which allows me to practice to the full extent of my education. Therefore, the laws in my state say that I (OD) and my fellow Ophthalmologist (OMD) are responsible at the same level of care within primary care. We are both responsible to treat corneal abrasions, or any other red eye, at the same expertise, no exceptions. Again, this is the law...we are equal up to the point of major surgical procedures in my state.


The many people that you speak of is unrealistic because you are not clear on these statistics.

Research Optometry and find out the true extent of the profession.

You make good and valid points. There is definitely a difference between what ODs are allowed to do by law and what they actually do on a daily basis in most cases. I think public perception of ODs generally is one of refraction, contacts, and unless other circumstances, not much else.

Eye allergies? they go to the PCP
Glaucoma? go to ophthalmologist
Eye injury? to to urgent care/ER

Now, I'm certainly not saying this is correct, the best for patients, or best for their wallet. But in a lot of cases that is what happens and how things are done.

Its only if you set up separate circumstances that you can break into all of this. You must have a friendly environment, ie state laws that allow this, medical panels that you have access to, patients that are receptive to your increased ability to care for them. In some situations, ODs are able to break the mold and perhaps it is becoming increasingly frequent. BUT, its not standard right now.

To get back to your original question. Some opticians want to refract. Opthalmologists are increasingly adding opticals for a variety or reasons. Increased pressure from retail, etc. But, ophthalmologists also seem to be increasingly specializing. Many don't have time for "normal" patients, or for dealing with mundane issues such as dry eye, allergies, etc. I think there is and will always be a place for the right type of optometrist. I think there is room somewhere between all optometrists ending up at walmart and all optometrists becoming purely medical.

 

[Smorr18]

Well Smorr18, I would say Optometry is probably not the field for you. I say this not to disappoint you; but your attitude toward the field is already negative as well as your fathers. If you are set on becoming an optometrist, you would have searched long and hard to understand the profession and understand that every optometrist, upon graduation, is capable of primary eye care at the same level of competency as OMD's...it's the law in my state that is. For example, in my state, I am considered an Optometric Glaucoma Specialist, which allows me to practice to the full extent of my education. Therefore, the laws in my state say that I (OD) and my fellow Ophthalmologist (OMD) are responsible at the same level of care within primary care. We are both responsible to treat corneal abrasions, or any other red eye, at the same expertise, no exceptions. Again, this is the law...we are equal up to the point of major surgical procedures in my state.

The many people that you speak of is unrealistic because you are not clear on these statistics.

Research Optometry and find out the true extent of the profession.

I understand optometrists can provide equal primary eyecare given by an ophthalmologist. However, what I was speaking about was the fact that people have an option of going to an ophthalmologist or optometrist for their eye care…and why some people choose to primarily go to ophthalmologists or optometrists. I do not have a negative view on the profession, I am just wondering about the differences between ophthalmologists and optometrists.

 

[luckyfool]

I understand optometrists can provide equal primary eyecare given by an ophthalmologist. However, what I was speaking about was the fact that people have an option of going to an ophthalmologist or optometrist for their eye care…and why some people choose to primarily go to ophthalmologists or optometrists. I do not have a negative view on the profession, I am just wondering about the differences between ophthalmologists and optometrists.

Most of what we say here in the SDN forums is only words. Spending some time in an optometrists's office and an ophthalmologist's office would give you a clearer picture on the similarities and differences of the 2 fields. Good luck.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I understand optometrists can provide equal primary eyecare given by an ophthalmologist. However, what I was speaking about was the fact that people have an option of going to an ophthalmologist or optometrist for their eye care…and why some people choose to primarily go to ophthalmologists or optometrists. I do not have a negative view on the profession, I am just wondering about the differences between ophthalmologists and optometrists.

MDs do the surgery since ODs can't. I think ODs tend to be better at the vision part of things (as stated, a one-eyed monkey could give you a functional refraction; but, an OD is better equipped to deal with all aspects of the visual system).

As far as primary care... for 99% of stuff, there's no real difference to my mind. I personally prefer ODs. Their practices seem to be set up as less of a patient mill, on average. There's obviously exceptions on both ends, but that's just been my experience.

You're right, the public probably does view MDs as superior for medical problems. But, everytime a patient goes to an OD with red eye/FB/pain/whathaveyou and are given excellent care... well that's a convert.

 

[burlypie]

You're right, the public probably does view MDs as superior for medical problems. But, everytime a patient goes to an OD with red eye/FB/pain/whathaveyou and are given excellent care... well that's a convert.

...until you spend some time in an eye emergency room and see the OD train-wrecks that come in. Just today? A monocular guy with a massively detached retina who went to his OD and was told, "oh, you're fine". Um, look who's potentially going to be blind now? The resident with me was telling me how the same thing happened to his brother.

My diabetic mother sees an OD for her refraction (and the work he does there is questionable -- otherwise ODs are great for refraction) and I asked her if he's ever done a thorough retinal exam, not just through the slit lamp. Um, no...

I dunno...I like MDs dealing with the medical issues. call me crazy.

 

[still_confused]

...until you spend some time in an eye emergency room and see the OD train-wrecks that come in. Just today? A monocular guy with a massively detached retina who went to his OD and was told, "oh, you're fine". Um, look who's potentially going to be blind now? The resident with me was telling me how the same thing happened to his brother.

My diabetic mother sees an OD for her refraction (and the work he does there is questionable -- otherwise ODs are great for refraction) and I asked her if he's ever done a thorough retinal exam, not just through the slit lamp. Um, no...

I dunno...I like MDs dealing with the medical issues. call me crazy.

and yet optometry moves forward! imagine where we will be if we can eliminate these anectodal evidence against us! I like MDs dealing with medical issues too, because they never make any mistakes!

 

[posner]

...until you spend some time in an eye emergency room and see the OD train-wrecks that come in. Just today? A monocular guy with a massively detached retina who went to his OD and was told, "oh, you're fine". Um, look who's potentially going to be blind now? The resident with me was telling me how the same thing happened to his brother.

My diabetic mother sees an OD for her refraction (and the work he does there is questionable -- otherwise ODs are great for refraction) and I asked her if he's ever done a thorough retinal exam, not just through the slit lamp. Um, no...

I dunno...I like MDs dealing with the medical issues. call me crazy.

You should tell this to my patient I saw today. Pressures of 34 and 27, all but 10 degress of visual field gone in in OD, OCT is dreadful in the OD, borderline in OS, optic nervie is 2+pale OD with a giant notch inferiorly(about .9 vetical by .6 horizontal). I got the records from his OMD whom he saw 3 months ago with IOP of 26 and 24 and CDs of .5 and .4. Let me just say I was very surprised. I defended the OMD even though deep down I knew that he dropped the ball. If the shoe were on the other foot he would have tried to hang me. The OMD in my office also looked at this guy(I didnt tell him who the patient was seeing previously) and he was shocked that this patient had seen another eyecare provider recently(the look on his face was priceless when I told him the patient was under care of an OMD for the last 2 years). The point is not that I am any better than anyone else, it is that MDs are not infalliable. This poor bastard would have gone blind if it werent for a lowly OD like myself.

I have put this chart aside should it become necessary to refer to in the future. The best part of this whole story....is that this patient's cousin is a teaching ophthalmologist in Washington that did a glaucoma fellowship. The patient requested I send all records to his cousin(which I faxed today) to review. I cant wait to hear his response. Every one makes mistakes...I have missed stuff and there are not many others in practice(OD or MD) that havent missed important things. Why we continue to fight about who is better is stupid. I have at least a dozen other cases(that I have in the same file folder as this one) in which patients were referred to me by family/friends that had glaringly obvious misdiagnoses from OMDs in my community. You fix the patient(which is your job) and move on. For christ sake, enough already!

Posner

 

[posner]

...until you spend some time in an eye emergency room and see the OD train-wrecks that come in. Just today? A monocular guy with a massively detached retina who went to his OD and was told, "oh, you're fine". Um, look who's potentially going to be blind now? The resident with me was telling me how the same thing happened to his brother.

My diabetic mother sees an OD for her refraction (and the work he does there is questionable -- otherwise ODs are great for refraction) and I asked her if he's ever done a thorough retinal exam, not just through the slit lamp. Um, no...

I dunno...I like MDs dealing with the medical issues. call me crazy.

You make a good point(in spite of your efforts to be a giant dick). I dilate EVERY patient that I see(25-30 per day) and I am sure to look to the best of my ability. I send a complete letter of my findings to the patients PCP or OMD specialist if they see one.

Speaking of diabetics, I saw a patient two mondays ago who had PDR with a large vitreous heme. I was unable to get this woman into a nearby retinal specialist, so I called the OMD down the street for a consult since I had a VERY poor view with my BIO. What a nice guy...after a B scan he decided to throw down some laser(a general OMD I might add) through a 3+ cataract and dense vitreous heme. So long macula!!! Four confluent burns right in the macula!!! I saw the patient yesterday afternoon. The sad thing is, is that she is says she plans to pursue legal recourse in this matter. Should I go on? We all make mistakes!!!

Posner

 

[jtenney1]

happy friday!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

...until you spend some time in an eye emergency room and see the OD train-wrecks that come in. Just today? A monocular guy with a massively detached retina who went to his OD and was told, "oh, you're fine". Um, look who's potentially going to be blind now? The resident with me was telling me how the same thing happened to his brother.

My diabetic mother sees an OD for her refraction (and the work he does there is questionable -- otherwise ODs are great for refraction) and I asked her if he's ever done a thorough retinal exam, not just through the slit lamp. Um, no...

I dunno...I like MDs dealing with the medical issues. call me crazy.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't help anyone.

But, as I've said previously, go with the provider you feel most comfortable seeing. To each his own.

 

[jtenney1]

Sorry to say this but most other health professionals (and people) don't look at optometry as anything other than desk pushers at 60 minute eye wear. I just got into optometry a few months ago and thats what I thought optometrists were. When I tell my friends about optometry, they ask me why I would want to only fit glasses for a living when I could be a doctor or something more in my league. What a boring job that would be according to them. They may be ignorant but that's pretty much how everyone else in the world understands optometry. As much as all of the OD's and optometry schools out there try to build up the profession and make it sound so appealing, the fact of the matter is, when anyone thinks of hears of optometry, they picture people with fancy lab coats at Walmart giving you glasses for rip-off prices. Optometry schools try to fancy up the profession by having the definition of an optometrist as the "primary health care provider for vision and....blah blah blah. I am sorry but when people want health care, they go to medical doctors instead. OD's probably could fix their problems, but they they feel much more comfortable going to someone who has an "M.D." slapped on thier name. Do I like this? No. But that's how it is.

It is that reason why I sometimes have reservations about going into this field. I don't want to just fit glasses because from all of my shadowing, thats the only thing that seems to be done. But I still like optometry alot.

 

[Smorr18]

Sorry to say this but most other health professionals (and people) don't look at optometry as anything other than desk pushers at 60 minute eye wear. I just got into optometry a few months ago and thats what I thought optometrists were. When I tell my friends about optometry, they ask me why I would want to only fit glasses for a living when I could be a doctor or something more in my league. What a boring job that would be according to them. They may be ignorant but that's pretty much how everyone else in the world understands optometry. As much as all of the OD's and optometry schools out there try to build up the profession and make it sound so appealing, the fact of the matter is, when anyone thinks of hears of optometry, they picture people with fancy lab coats at Walmart giving you glasses for rip-off prices. Optometry schools try to fancy up the profession by having the definition of an optometrist as the "primary health care provider for vision and....blah blah blah. I am sorry but when people want health care, they go to medical doctors instead. OD's probably could fix their problems, but they they feel much more comfortable going to someone who has an "M.D." slapped on thier name. Do I like this? No. But that's how it is.

It is that reason why I sometimes have reservations about going into this field. I don't want to just fit glasses because from all of my shadowing, thats the only thing that seems to be done. But I still like optometry alot.

I think you make some good points. It's true; a lot of people do not view optometrists as high status doctors like "OMDs." However, a lot of people do make visits to optometrists for medical attention concerning the eyes. Although, yeah, even from my own shadowing...contacts and glasses are definitely the prominent reason for seeing an optometrist. But something about optometry that I find quite unique and rewarding is the fact that those people who are "just coming in to get new glasses," etc...ARE being tested and screened for ocular diseases, etc... So optometrists have that ability to recognize potential problems. In a lot of ways, I think the role of an optometrist is just as important as the role of an ophthalmologist...if not more. This is especially true for those people who are not well informed on the importance of yearly eye exams. So, I really think optometrists are "primary eye care providers." It just depends on whether the patient goes to an optometrist or ophthalmologist first. So I suppose, they're both "primary eye care providers."

 

[Ben Chudner]

Sorry to say this but most other health professionals (and people) don't look at optometry as anything other than desk pushers at 60 minute eye wear. I just got into optometry a few months ago and thats what I thought optometrists were. When I tell my friends about optometry, they ask me why I would want to only fit glasses for a living when I could be a doctor or something more in my league. What a boring job that would be according to them. They may be ignorant but that's pretty much how everyone else in the world understands optometry. As much as all of the OD's and optometry schools out there try to build up the profession and make it sound so appealing, the fact of the matter is, when anyone thinks of hears of optometry, they picture people with fancy lab coats at Walmart giving you glasses for rip-off prices. Optometry schools try to fancy up the profession by having the definition of an optometrist as the "primary health care provider for vision and....blah blah blah. I am sorry but when people want health care, they go to medical doctors instead. OD's probably could fix their problems, but they they feel much more comfortable going to someone who has an "M.D." slapped on thier name. Do I like this? No. But that's how it is.

It is that reason why I sometimes have reservations about going into this field. I don't want to just fit glasses because from all of my shadowing, thats the only thing that seems to be done. But I still like optometry alot.

My honest advice for you is to quit optometry school and consider another field. You may "still like optometry alot", but you will not enjoy it as a career and based on your uninformed observations of what "most other health professionals (and people)" think about this profession, I don't believe you will be a very good optometrist. If you want to waste 4 years of school to wear your white coat at Wal-Mart please pursue another career. It is people like you that make those of us, that actually have created a medically based practice in an office that looks just as professional as any other medical practice, fear for the future of optometry.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Anecdotal evidence doesn't help anyone.

But, as I've said previously, go with the provider you feel most comfortable seeing. To each his own.

I really like the quote that aphistis uses:

Contrary to popular belief, the plural of "anecdote" is not "fact"

 

[rpie]

I think you make some good points. It's true; a lot of people do not view optometrists as high status doctors like "OMDs." However, a lot of people do make visits to optometrists for medical attention concerning the eyes. Although, yeah, even from my own shadowing...contacts and glasses are definitely the prominent reason for seeing an optometrist. But something about optometry that I find quite unique and rewarding is the fact that those people who are "just coming in to get new glasses," etc...ARE being tested and screened for ocular diseases, etc... So optometrists have that ability to recognize potential problems. In a lot of ways, I think the role of an optometrist is just as important as the role of an ophthalmologist...if not more. This is especially true for those people who are not well informed on the importance of yearly eye exams. So, I really think optometrists are "primary eye care providers." It just depends on whether the patient goes to an optometrist or ophthalmologist first. So I suppose, they're both "primary eye care providers."

I hate the term “screened for eye diseases”! Back in the days when OD’s were not allowed to treat ocular disease, I think the use of screening would be appropriate, IMHO.

Now, if an OD is practicing to the fullest extent of their licensing, they Diagnose, treat and follow eye diseases until a secondary consult or invasive surgical intervention is indicated.

I also agree with Ben …... jtenney1 your comments and attitude of what Optometry is disturbes me.

 

[cpw]

I also agree with Ben …... jtenney1 your comments and attitude of what Optometry is disturbes me.

they disturb me too. It's our job as optometrists to EDUCATE the public as to what we're really capable of doing... not succumb to what "the general public" view point is. I have patients THRILLED that they can come see me to treat an infection, remove a foreign body, monitor their eyes for diabetic changes etc. I tell them what I can (and can't) do and they come back to see me time and time again ... and they bring friends

If that's not what you got into optometry for... please reconsider this field as your chosen profession.

 

[mme27]

........

 

[Ben Chudner]

Hey Ben I wasn't bashing optometry so don't attack me. Why would I make personal attacks on a profession that I might want to be a part of?

I don't believe it's possible to make personal attacks on a profession, is it? I believe you were bashing not only the profession of optometry, but also our schools which you obviously know less about than I thought since you are not even a student.

Whether you like it or not, that is what most people think about it. My "uninformed observations" (which is an oxymoron by the way) have come from talking to many people over many years.

So your comments are based on all the people you have talked to over many years? I am no statistician but I am pretty sure that is a very small sample size. I could say that majority of people I come in contact with know exactly what an optometrist can do and that includes all of the ophthalmologists in my town. What's the point? You obviously interact with uninformed people. An you are correct about the "uninformed observations", as I meant to say irrelevant observations.

Do you think I like what most people think optometrists do?

I guess I don't really care.

You can tell me all you want to how people "make it look professional" and all that. But why should people have to make it look anything. They should just present it how it is and that should speak for itself.

We do present it how it is, and that was my point. We don't make it look professional, it just is. That is why the majority of my patients think of me first when it comes to a problem with their eyes.

By the way, I am actually not in optometry school.

Then there is still time for you to choose another path.

I am still debating on whether to go into optometry or not.

I wish you all the best with your decision.

PS Did I cool it enough for you?

 

[prettygreeneyes]

Hey Ben I wasn't bashing optometry so don't attack me.

WTF???

Wait... did I miss something here??? Are mme27 and jtenney1 the same person? If so... why two screen names? And if not... you're freaking out on Dr. Chudner for something he said to someone else?

So confused right now...

 

[luckyfool]

WTF???

Wait... did I miss something here??? Are mme27 and jtenney1 the same person? If so... why two screen names? And if not... you're freaking out on Dr. Chudner for something he said to someone else?

So confused right now...

Very good observation. I was asking myself the same thing. Why would mme27 defend what Ben said to jtenney1, and speak on her/his behalf. Hahaha.. some psychos in this place.

Also, just to clarify, I've been to 5 different OD office locations in new york and ODs are anything but desk pushers or people with fancy labcoats. As far as I see it, ODs do pretty much the same thing as MD except that they don't do laser repairs or medical eye injections. I can say this as a fact because I'm currently working for a MD and an OD. Therefore I can make factual similarities and differences of the two.

But seriously, mme27/jtenney1, if you have reservations about optometry as a career, you should consider other professions.

 

[mme27]

......

 

[Smorr18]

Tell you the truth, even if I did know what O.D.'s can do, I would still go to an M.D. for my problems.

Why are you talking about what ODs do when you don't even know!

 

[still_confused]

he makes good points and its sad but true, this is pretty much how the public percieves ODs

mme27, i am not going to try to convince you whether optometry is good profession, but for your sanity please seriuosly reconsider. If you wont go to an OD why would you want to be soemthing you do not respect? nothing is worst then not respecting yourself. Optometry has gone a long way because people that are passionate about it keeps pushing us forward. Most ODs LOVE being ODs. Even most of the cynical posters here still love being an OD (though practicing it might be different!)

But its your life and you need to pick something that you will wake up and look yourself in the mirror and be HAPPY and PROUD of what you do. Or else...why bother. If you decide to join us, its good to have someone who has your kind of viewpoint so that we can rectify the problem, If not best of luck. Optometry is not for anyone and especially not for the insecure and faint of heart

 

[scraders]

Living in the Phoenix, AZ (which is the 4th largest city in the country) believe me, I have come in contact with way more people and I am just saying how many people define optometrists. Are they uninformed? Obviously! My brother is a pediatric cardiologist who went to Harvard and thinks O.D.'s just fit glasses. My friend who was the CEO of General Mills, LA Times, and Federal Reserve president thinks the same thing. I don't interract with dumb losers. These are very smart people but just don't know any different. That's my whole point, optometry is a good profession but people are uninformed about it. Nobody in my family, and none of my friends wear glasses so we would never think of going to an eye-glass doctor (OD) for something medical. We just don't put them together. We go to a medical doctor for medical problems. Are we uneducated about O.D.'s? Yes. But so are most people that don't wear glasses and don't care to do research just for fun on all the skills and training an O.D. has. The only O.D.'s many of us see are in grocery stores behind the cash registers.

Does anyone else think that this misconception has to do with the evolution of the optometric profession over the recent two/three decades? Maybe the general public and even the medical community aren't aware yet that our scope of practice has expanded to involve more medical eye care. We need to inform our patients, friends, and family that optometry is a lot different today than it was twenty years ago.

 

[luckyfool]

Actually, I am just schizophrenic. No I am the same person, I just decided to change screen names yesterday cause I like this one better.

Ok so it's great that there has been a lot of commotion regarding what I wrote in my first thread. First off, yes you can make personal attacks against a profession. You can "personally" attack whatever you want. I supposedly did because some people seem are getting defensive over it. But that's not the point. Also, I DO NOT HATE OPTOMETRY! You are getting mad at me for telling you what I have experienced. So from what you say, you seem to think that because the people in your town (which I am positive has a VERY tiny sample size) know what optometrists do, then everyone does. Living in the Phoenix, AZ (which is the 4th largest city in the country) believe me, I have come in contact with way more people and I am just saying how many people define optometrists. Are they uninformed? Obviously! My brother is a pediatric cardiologist who went to Harvard and thinks O.D.'s just fit glasses. My friend who was the CEO of General Mills, LA Times, and Federal Reserve president thinks the same thing. I don't interract with dumb losers. These are very smart people but just don't know any different. That's my whole point, optometry is a good profession but people are uninformed about it. Nobody in my family, and none of my friends wear glasses so we would never think of going to an eye-glass doctor (OD) for something medical. We just don't put them together. We go to a medical doctor for medical problems. Are we uneducated about O.D.'s? Yes. But so are most people that don't wear glasses and don't care to do research just for fun on all the skills and training an O.D. has. The only O.D.'s many of us see are in grocery stores behind the cash registers. Tell you the truth, even if I did know what O.D.'s can do, I would still go to an M.D. for my problems. I am just talking as an outsider who has only recently learned about optometry. If you didn't wear glasses and didn't personally know optometrists, I think you would think the same.

Optometry is easy for you to define because you have probably been involved in it for years and years. Like or not most people are uninformed about something. Don't get offended when I tell you how the people that I talk to view optometry. Maybe you can go on a personal crusade and be the poster boy of optometry. You can tell all of us informed people how amazing O.D.'s actually are and what great skills you have.

I don't interract with dumb losers. These are very smart people but just don't know any different.

It is funny that you mentioned those supposedly prominent individuals on their lack of knowledge about optometry. Obviously they are uninformed. But no one equates uninformed = dumb losers? lol...

Speaking on behalf of New York City (since you spoke for Phoenix, AZ), I can tell you that many people here know exactly who optometrists are and what they do. Of course there are always those who don't know . It is up to us to educate them. The situation in NYC about eyecare is this: most older patients tend to see MDs because MDs have a broader insurance coverage and fees are more affordable. The bad part about going to see a MD is waiting hours and hours to be seen and released. That's why most younger patients will see ODs rather than MDs because they want to be seen quickly and don't want to wait half a day in a MD's office. I'd also like to mention that this is a generalized trend since younger patients have less severe eye problems. Most severe eye problems are found in older patients, who should and always deserve a MD's attention, and not ODs.

Nobody in my family, and none of my friends wear glasses so we would never think of going to an eye-glass doctor (OD) for something medical. ....The only O.D.'s many of us see are in grocery stores behind the cash registers. Tell you the truth, even if I did know what O.D.'s can do, I would still go to an M.D. for my problems. I am just talking as an outsider who has only recently learned about optometry. If you didn't wear glasses and didn't personally know optometrists, I think you would think the same.

Now speaking about your interest in optometry, I am confused as to why you became interested in a career where you have so little contact with and has almost nothing you can relate to.

 

[cpw]

WTF???

Wait... did I miss something here??? Are mme27 and jtenney1 the same person? If so... why two screen names? And if not... you're freaking out on Dr. Chudner for something he said to someone else?

So confused right now...

yeah, that threw me too.... unless they're related and/or the same person that post makes no sense.

Thanks PGE.. I thought it was just me. *sighs relief of non-craziness*

 

[planex]

I was just thinking...many people don't even go to optometrists because they're covered by health insurance to see ophthalmologists. Do you think in the future more and more people will take this route...making an optometrist no longer a "primary" care provider? Even my dad, when he got something in his eye, he immediately thought to go to an ophthalmologist because he was certain he scratched his eye, as well as for costs. I know I'm being a little ridiculous, but I plan to be an optometrist, and to me it's weird to think that an ophthalmologist can do most of the eye care provided by an optometrist, or at least that's the way a lot of people think. I know optometrists are usually much better at refractions due to schooling. Anyways, what do you all think about this?

What fits the definition of "TROLLING".

To me this sure seems to be written for that intent and not for a beneficial discussion forum.

 

[Smorr18]

What fits the definition of "TROLLING".

To me this sure seems to be written for that intent and not for a beneficial discussion forum.

I didn't write it because I wanted to "troll." It's a topic that I don't think has been discussed a lot, and I was interested in what others thought of patients' freedom to go to an optometrist or ophthalmologist.

 

[mme27]

.....

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

I would have to say that most people don't know the difference b/t ophthalmologists, optometrists and opticians. Most of time people think I'm an ophthalmologist or an optician.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

yeah, that threw me too.... unless they're related and/or the same person that post makes no sense.

Thanks PGE.. I thought it was just me. *sighs relief of non-craziness*

We'll if you're crazy... we can be crazy together!

 

[KHE]

Does anyone else think that this misconception has to do with the evolution of the optometric profession over the recent two/three decades? Maybe the general public and even the medical community aren't aware yet that our scope of practice has expanded to involve more medical eye care. We need to inform our patients, friends, and family that optometry is a lot different today than it was twenty years ago.

That may be the case but the biggest obstacle in this area is the fact that optometrists as a rule do not see "in patients" and as such we do not interatct with any medical specialties outside of ophthalmolgy as part of our training or as part of their training.

In medical school, all doctors are going to encounter and work alongside podiatrists, dentists, and other "allied health" professionals if you will. HOwever, they will not interact with optometry. Couple this with the fact that its drilled into every MD as part of their rotations that if there is any eye related concern, ophthalmology is the consult that needs to be ordered, not optometry.

Until optometrists start working alongside medical students in managing patients with systemic diseases that can have ocular complications, then this trend is not likely to change because medicine will never view optometry as a viable referal option, and you wouldn't really be able to blame them.

The fact that optometry students may take some of the same anatomy or physiology courses as first year med students at a few optometry schools is not nearly enough to place optometry in these future doctors minds when it comes time to order a consult or make a referal.

 

[bournehall]

Please don't go into optometry!!! I would hate to be considered a peer of someone with an attitude like yours. It sounds you have issues outside of optometry...get help for your arrogance.

Hey Ben I wasn't bashing optometry so don't attack me. Why would I make personal attacks on a profession that I might want to be a part of? Whether you like it or not, that is what most people think about it. My "uninformed observations" (which is an oxymoron by the way) have come from talking to many people over many years. Do you think I like what most people think optometrists do? You can tell me all you want to how people "make it look professional" and all that. But why should people have to make it look anything. They should just present it how it is and that should speak for itself. I think optometrists do a great thing, I feel that they are needed, but I also feel that many people unfortunately don't know what they can do and what they are really there for.

By the way, I am actually not in optometry school. I accidently posted in the wrong forum. So do not worry, I am not a disgrace to this field and I am not going to quit a school that I am not enrolled in. I think your right, I would be an awful OD if I agreed with what I said earlier. But never in my thread did I say that I agree with the statements that I put down. I am just wrote what I have experienced over many years and living in Phoenix, AZ. p.s. I am still debating on whether to go into optometry or not.

 

[mme27]

......

 

[FamilyMD]

That may be the case but the biggest obstacle in this area is the fact that optometrists as a rule do not see "in patients" and as such we do not interatct with any medical specialties outside of ophthalmolgy as part of our training or as part of their training.

In medical school, all doctors are going to encounter and work alongside podiatrists, dentists, and other "allied health" professionals if you will. HOwever, they will not interact with optometry. Couple this with the fact that its drilled into every MD as part of their rotations that if there is any eye related concern, ophthalmology is the consult that needs to be ordered, not optometry.

Until optometrists start working alongside medical students in managing patients with systemic diseases that can have ocular complications, then this trend is not likely to change because medicine will never view optometry as a viable referal option, and you wouldn't really be able to blame them.

The fact that optometry students may take some of the same anatomy or physiology courses as first year med students at a few optometry schools is not nearly enough to place optometry in these future doctors minds when it comes time to order a consult or make a referal.

Very perceptive of you KHE. I know every eyeMD in town and not ONE OD, not even one. As such, I have NEVER referred a pt to an OD, pretty sure that's the same with the other MD's in town (probably everywhere). Simply put, you refer to people you know.

 

[drgregory]

Very perceptive of you KHE. I know every eyeMD in town and not ONE OD, not even one. As such, I have NEVER referred a pt to an OD, pretty sure that's the same with the other MD's in town (probably everywhere). Simply put, you refer to people you know.

i met with the local MDs in the area to establish a relationship. family docs, in my opinion, seem to be the most caring provider ive ever been in contact with. in my experience, they simply wanted timely, efficient, and competent care for their referrals. if that meant an OD of MD for eye care, it didnt matter, but why would they pull my name out of thin air if i didnt make the effort to meet them?

 

[KHE]

Very perceptive of you KHE. I know every eyeMD in town and not ONE OD, not even one. As such, I have NEVER referred a pt to an OD, pretty sure that's the same with the other MD's in town (probably everywhere). Simply put, you refer to people you know.

So would you be more inclined to refer to an OD who you knew as part of your social circle?

If an OD wanted to garner referals for blurry vision, pink eyes, and screening for diabetic retinopathy, what would they need to do or what would you need to hear to make you consider the OD as a viable referal option?