will SOAP programs consider me if i did not interview before the SOAP?

[common man]

i applied late and received <10 interviews for family medicine (my bad). i'll be in the SOAP. i'm an osteopathic applicant with average comlex scores and no steps but this demographic still had an 89% success rate in 2018 per NRMP data. here's what concerns me:

if a program did not invite me for an interview before the SOAP, will they consider me, interview me, and rank me during the SOAP? i don't want to make false assumptions but it makes sense that programs are in a time crunch and will consider people that they already interviewed and know prior to the SOAP.

as always, thank you for your help!

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[GoSpursGo]

Yes, you will be considered, and in fact it works the opposite of how you have it in your head. The only way that someone would be SOAPing AND a program that they interviewed at has an empty spot is that they were so bad in their interview that the program decided to leave them unranked, ie they think that person is such a bad fit they prefer a random SOAPer over them.

 

[common man]

Yes, you will be considered, and in fact it works the opposite of how you have it in your head. The only way that someone would be SOAPing AND a program that they interviewed at has an empty spot is that they were so bad in their interview that the program decided to leave them unranked, ie they think that person is such a bad fit they prefer a random SOAPer over them.

basic logic. sorry i missed that. thank you so much! very helpful.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

SOAP programs may decide to video interview you -- Skype, or FaceTime, or similar. But not always. Almost never would you actually visit the program, unless they happened to be in the same location you were in.

 

[common man]

SOAP programs may decide to video interview you -- Skype, or FaceTime, or similar. But not always. Almost never would you actually visit the program, unless they happened to be in the same location you were in.

in the SOAP, MD students have a 27% success rate, DO students have a 18% success rate. i'm not going to hold my breath. i'm interested in FM. here's what i'll do in the following order (1) try to secure a spot prior to the ACGME match. AOA scramble spots have moved to ACGME so few are remaining (2) rank all programs in the ACGME match (3) SOAP - especially DO programs that are new to the ACGME match (4) post SOAP (5) possibly consider programs outside of ACGME accreditation. I'll have to look at the fine details to avoid pitfalls. (6) delay graduation, take Step 1, 2, and 3 and do at least 5 audition rotations. (7) apply and then look for a job in january.

a friend of mine who will also not match this cycle wants to go into "regular" Internal Medicine. his solution is to do a TRI (the ACGME equivalent of this is a prelim position). however, i don't think that he is either interested in or is competitive for anesthesia, neurology, radiology, dermatology etc. that's the only situation where a TRI / prelim makes sense. otherwise, he'll do a TRI / prelim and then apply for IM spots that have vacancies. A lot of people will compete for those vacancies. the TRI / prelim helps for one year because he has a job and maintains clinical experience. but after that year, aside from vacancies, i don't see any program willing to pay $$ for that extra year of funding. do i have this right or am i missing something? is transitional year good for someone who wants to go into an IM program? i hate making false assumptions. i looked for data on where transition year interns end up and did not see much.

i know that i am packing a lot of topics in this post but i'd rather limit myself to one thread.

thanks for your help!

 

[GoSpursGo]

in the SOAP, MD students have a 27% success rate, DO students have a 18% success rate. i'm not going to hold my breath. i'm interested in FM. here's what i'll do in the following order (1) try to secure a spot prior to the ACGME match. AOA scramble spots have moved to ACGME so few are remaining (2) rank all programs in the ACGME match (3) SOAP - especially DO programs that are new to the ACGME match (4) post SOAP (5) possibly consider programs outside of ACGME accreditation. I'll have to look at the fine details to avoid pitfalls. (6) delay graduation, take Step 1, 2, and 3 and do at least 5 audition rotations. (7) apply and then look for a job in january.

a friend of mine who will also not match this cycle wants to go into "regular" Internal Medicine. his solution is to do a TRI (the ACGME equivalent of this is a prelim position). however, i don't think that he is either interested in or is competitive for anesthesia, neurology, radiology, dermatology etc. that's the only situation where a TRI / prelim makes sense. otherwise, he'll do a TRI / prelim and then apply for IM spots that have vacancies. A lot of people will compete for those vacancies. the TRI / prelim helps for one year because he has a job and maintains clinical experience. but after that year, aside from vacancies, i don't see any program willing to pay $$ for that extra year of funding. do i have this right or am i missing something? is transitional year good for someone who wants to go into an IM program? i hate making false assumptions. i looked for data on where transition year interns end up and did not see much.

i know that i am packing a lot of topics in this post but i'd rather limit myself to one thread.

thanks for your help!

Keep in mind you may yet match. You didn't say how many programs interviewed you other than <10, but you may be getting ahead of yourself.

Your first 4 steps are fine.

Be very careful about non-ACGME accredited programs. If not accredited, and there isn't a clear plan in place for it to gain accredited, you might waste your time in a residency that won't lead to you becoming board eligible.

I do think delaying graduation is a good idea if you can do it, but it's not realistic to think you're going to take all three USMLEs and do 5 audition rotations. If you didn't do well on COMLEX when the information was fresh, it's unlikely you're going to suddenly do much better on the USMLE especially if you're dividing your time with audition rotations. It might be more realistic to work on a clinically-based research project while you're doing the rotations. I also don't understand why you would need a job in January, unless your school will only allow you to delay graduation until December?

Doing a transitional year is good in that it keeps your clinical skills sharp, and you can gain strong letters of recommendation which might convince programs that you will be able to handle the workload in residency despite borderline scores. In general, I think it's better to delay graduation and do additional rotations if you can, but a TRI is not a terrible outcome.

 

[common man]

Be very careful about non-ACGME accredited programs. If not accredited, and there isn't a clear plan in place for it to gain accredited, you might waste your time in a residency that won't lead to you becoming board eligible.

good point! if i don't see clear progress / plan for being accredited, i'll skip it.

but it's not realistic to think you're going to take all three USMLEs and do 5 audition rotations. If you didn't do well on COMLEX when the information was fresh, it's unlikely you're going to suddenly do much better on the USMLE especially if you're dividing your time with audition rotations.

probably true. however, i'd consider taking a crack at it. over time, i feel that i have gotten better for exams. i'd try to get dedicated time for studying and then move onto audition rotations from 8/1 to 1/1 (5 months). it was a thought but i'll have to think it over.

I also don't understand why you would need a job in January, unless your school will only allow you to delay graduation until December?

i'm only delaying graduation for residency admission purposes. once i've done all that i can for residency, i want to stop being a student and make $ and move on! i suppose for a few months i can be flexible to do what is best.

Doing a transitional year is good in that it keeps your clinical skills sharp, and you can gain strong letters of recommendation which might convince programs that you will be able to handle the workload in residency despite borderline scores. In general, I think it's better to delay graduation and do additional rotations if you can, but a TRI is not a terrible outcome.

a TRI who goes into a categorical IM residency non advanced, will be a resident for 4 years but receive only 3 years of funding. the program that accepts them will have to foot the bill for that 1 year. this sounds highly unlikely. so after the TRI, it will be hard to get into a program. it shuts the door for the future.

thank you very much for your time!

 

[gutonc]

a TRI who goes into a categorical IM residency non advanced, will be a resident for 4 years but receive only 3 years of funding. the program that accepts them will have to foot the bill for that 1 year. this sounds highly unlikely. so after the TRI, it will be hard to get into a program. it shuts the door for the future.

thank you very much for your time!

You don't understand the way GME funding works. Which is fine because most people, including a fair number of PDs don't either.

But the reality is that for that final year in your scenario, the program only has to foot somewhere between 20-30% of the cost of a resident, not 100%. So it's not the non-starter that you seem to think it is.

 

[common man]

You don't understand the way GME funding works. Which is fine because most people, including a fair number of PDs don't either.

But the reality is that for that final year in your scenario, the program only has to foot somewhere between 20-30% of the cost of a resident, not 100%. So it's not the non-starter that you seem to think it is.

thank you for this info. so it's as not as bad as i thought. of course, PDs may not even realize that they pay only 20-30% cost or even if they do they may opt to pick another candidate out of many in an already competitive applicant pool in order to save some money and hassle. is there official data on the success rates of TRI / prelim people going into FM or EM?

 

[gutonc]

thank you for this info. so it's as not as bad as i thought. of course, PDs may not even realize that they pay only 20-30% cost or even if they do they may opt to pick another candidate out of many in an already competitive applicant pool in order to save some money and hassle. is there official data on the success rates of TRI / prelim people going into FM or EM?

There is not. But a bird in the hand and all that.

 

[GoSpursGo]

thank you for this info. so it's as not as bad as i thought. of course, PDs may not even realize that they pay only 20-30% cost or even if they do they may opt to pick another candidate out of many in an already competitive applicant pool in order to save some money and hassle. is there official data on the success rates of TRI / prelim people going into FM or EM?

No such data exists. But it's also a hassle to deal with an intern who hasn't seen a patient in a year (or more). Delaying graduation and continuing clinical rotations is probably the best way to go if you can do it because you don't run into a funding issue and you get to apply as a graduating senior, but if someone does have to graduate either because the school won't allow them to delay or because they need to start making money, then a transitional year is a good way to show prospective programs that you have what it takes to hack it as an intern. Also, in the worst case scenario where you never get a categorical spot, even doing one year of residency training opens up a number of job opportunities (not great ones, mind you, but at least you'll be able to do something with your degree).

i'm only delaying graduation for residency admission purposes. once i've done all that i can for residency, i want to stop being a student and make $ and move on! i suppose for a few months i can be flexible to do what is best.

It's not like there are a ton of jobs out there for a medical graduate without residency training that will hire you if you're planning to only stay for the 6 months between graduation and starting residency.

 

[common man]

thank you all very much for the very helpful info and insight! i really appreciate it! i'll try to match and if don't then my first choice will be to delay graduation and second option is transitional year.