Will you take the mRNA Vaccine Immediately When Available?

[Birdstrike]

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UPDATE!

Some of you wondered where all that vaccine was going, and why you weren't getting it. Why were there unexplained "computer malfunctions" and delays in scheduling software. You blamed big, bad, nasty people far away in high places. But I told you to look in your own backyard for scammers jumping the line taking it before you. I told you to follow the money and round up the usual suspect, people with money and people who control the flow of money, and you'll be able to sniff out the trail to the missing vaccine. And what do ya know?! They had a convenient "glitch!" in an "algorithm!" that "accidentally" led to the shot being given first to.....


.....ADMINISTRATORS !

But it was an "accident," guys. We promise, it was. It was such an accident some dumb guy on the internet was able to predict it like an amateur Nostradamus.


And they also gave it to physicians that don't see patients, which we know is another term for "administrators"!



Stanford Hospital


Opportunity + motive + usual suspects = crime

For every one story like this, it's happened 1,000 time unreported.

 

[miacomet]

It will apparently never be available to us, so I guess not.

 

[southerndoc]

Thankfully my health system prioritized highest risk first (ED, ICU, COVID wings). I think more than 80% of our ED docs have been vaccinated now.

 

[sunshinefl]

I disagree. I think med students should be used as covid fodder, as a buffer zone between us and the patients.

Sorry to disappoint you but by a stroke of luck I was able to get my first dose today in a different hospital system.

I got it before showing up for work this morning. Was dizzy as crap for a few hours, but has since resolved. Despite my history of anaphylaxis, I didn't have an allergic reaction. One of the hospitalists had tinnitus for a few hours.

Haven't seen any horns growing on my head yet (despite my wife claiming they should be there LOL).

Yes!!!! They had us sitting in a chair that we stayed in for administration and observation for 15 mins after. Minute 18 as I’m walking to my car I was suddenly intensely dizzy! For a minute I thought I was going to lose consciousness. When I got to my car a leaned the seat back and laid there. I had to stay there for 90 minutes before I was safe enough to drive. I got the vaccine almost 6 hours ago and I still have the dizziness although much less, but also have a massive throbbing headache, tinnitus, myalgia, and fatigue. Luckily I got it after my shift, not before.

Update: add chills to the list.

Day 1 yesterday had headache. Day 2 resolved but arm sore as hell. Nothing else so far.

As I mentioned above, I have a terrible massive headache. My arm doesn’t hurt yet 6 hours in. And it normally hurts for others including flu.

 

[Cinclus]

Sucks for those who have had a bunch of symptoms. I feel pretty darned lucky. It might get me on round 2, though.

 

[gutonc]

I kinda included a lot of specific clues.

I'm guessing pigs.

I was hiking last spring with my actual dogs and we ran across a group of people hiking with a goat...on a leash. Not a pygmy goat, a regular, rather large, goat.

My 130# intact male Leonberger nearly tore my arm off going after that thing.

He's fixed now.

[/OT]

 

[thegenius]

What are we saying about how protective one dose of the vaccine is? Like 55 percent or so?

For Pfizer it's 80% effective after one dose, 94% effective after two.

 

[thegenius]

I got it before showing up for work this morning. Was dizzy as crap for a few hours, but has since resolved. Despite my history of anaphylaxis, I didn't have an allergic reaction. One of the hospitalists had tinnitus for a few hours.

Haven't seen any horns growing on my head yet (despite my wife claiming they should be there LOL).

I got my first shot today. I now have green eyeballs and am only speaking Portuguese. Is this an allergic reaction?

 

[thegenius]

I kinda included a lot of specific clues.

I know. It's a Wildebeest.

 

[thegenius]

I kind of want to try to hike with my "dogs," because I think they might like it. But they're not actually dogs, and I sort of fear for their safety in case we ran into actual dogs or hungry wildlife. The hike might also end when they start trying to dig everywhere. We're gonna try the yard and porch first. The fact that my particular type of pet is also experiencing an almost-always-fatal viral outbreak this year (active in our area) has also put a damper on their outdoor opportunities. I was able to get them vaccinated in September with emergency imported vaccine from Europe. It's been a weird year filled with viruses. And yes, I am this good at derailing things in real life, as well.

A leopard gecko?

 

[thegenius]

Sorry to disappoint you but by a stroke of luck I was able to get my first dose today in a different hospital system.

Yes!!!! They had us sitting in a chair that we stayed in for administration and observation for 15 mins after. Minute 18 as I’m walking to my car I was suddenly intensely dizzy! For a minute I thought I was going to lose consciousness. When I got to my car a leaned the seat back and laid there. I had to stay there for 90 minutes before I was safe enough to drive. I got the vaccine almost 6 hours ago and I still have the dizziness although much less, but also have a massive throbbing headache, tinnitus, myalgia, and fatigue. Luckily I got it after my shift, not before.

Update: add chills to the list.


As I mentioned above, I have a terrible massive headache. My arm doesn’t hurt yet 6 hours in. And it normally hurts for others including flu.

wow
it's so random how some people have no side effects and others are severe.

I wonder what the pathophysiology is that makes one really dizzy.

 

[Daedalus]

I'm curious if people with more side effects from the first dose are those who had a previous covid infection (possibly asymptomatic)

 

[southerndoc]

Just woke up this morning and feel fine. Like @thegenius I also have green eyeballs, but I'm still speaking Redneckese.

 

[southerndoc]

I didn't think employers could require the vaccine due to its EUA status, but apparently they can. The NYTimes is reporting the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said employees can be barred from work if they refuse the vaccine. This is a federal endorsement of such behavior.

Employers Can Require Workers to Get Covid-19 Vaccine, U.S. Says (Published 2020)

The federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said employees could be barred from the workplace if they refused the vaccine.

www.nytimes.com

 

[sunshinefl]

I'm curious if people with more side effects from the first dose are those who had a previous covid infection (possibly asymptomatic)

Yeah I’m really wondering that too.

 

[Birdstrike]

A leopard gecko?

Oh, cool. I want one!

 

[Birdstrike]

Just woke up this morning and feel fine. Like @thegenius I also have green eyeballs, but I'm still speaking Redneckese.

I’m bilingual in English and redneckese

 

[Angry Birds]

For Pfizer it's 80% effective after one dose, 94% effective after two.

80 percent after how long?
Sorry I know I could look this up but if you know off the top of your head....

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

Just received my first Phizer shot yesterday. Our hospital admin is actually doing a pretty solid job w/ respect to rolling out the vaccine. They are definitely prioritizing ED staff.

 

[Dr_feelsbadman]

MS3 on inpatient rotations. Received the vaccine yesterday, arm soreness but no other symptoms.

3-hours post I took my temp at 97.8 lmao. I've been following this thread leading up and was waiting to see what would happen.

 

[Birdstrike]

80 percent after how long?
Sorry I know I could look this up but if you know off the top of your head....

As far as how long a single dose would be 80% effective, if you got one dose but never got the second, I don't think they know, because they gave everyone a second dose and didn't have a "one dose only" arm to the study. As long as you plan on getting the second dose you can rely upon getting up to 80% setting in during the first 12-14 days, then increasing to 95% by the 28 day mark (7 days after the second dose at 21 days). Beyond that, no one knows, because they don't have the long term data yet.

 

[Birdstrike]

Post vaccine day #3. No side effects day 1, 2 or 3 except sore arm on day 1. I'm not going to post anymore about this until injection #2 at the 21 day mark, as I don't think anything is likely to change.

 

[thegenius]

I didn't think employers could require the vaccine due to its EUA status, but apparently they can. The NYTimes is reporting the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said employees can be barred from work if they refuse the vaccine. This is a federal endorsement of such behavior.

Employers Can Require Workers to Get Covid-19 Vaccine, U.S. Says (Published 2020)

The federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said employees could be barred from the workplace if they refused the vaccine.

www.nytimes.com

Yes I’m very surprised to read this as well. I can see people rushing to the ER to get their vaccine too.

Seems like this ruling, or declaration, will be subject to judicial review.

 

[thegenius]

80 percent after how long?
Sorry I know I could look this up but if you know off the top of your head....

oh I don’t know. For the duration of the study, which might be 3 or 4 months so far but I don’t know. They real question is how long this immunity lasts...and I bet those who participated in the initial study will be getting their blood drawn every month or so measuring antibody titers and seeing If they get infected.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Post vaccine day #3. No side effects day 1, 2 or 3 except sore arm on day 1. I'm not going to post anymore about this until injection #2 at the 21 day mark, as I don't think anything is likely to change.

Please let us know when you think lockdowns, and seizure of private property are acceptable solutions. Then we will know the vaccine had it's intended effect!

 

[Birdstrike]

Please let us know when you think lockdowns, and seizure of private property are acceptable solutions. Then we will know the vaccine had it's intended effect!

They are not acceptable solutions. I'm not sure I see the connection from that to the vaccine, though.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Sorry to disappoint you but by a stroke of luck I was able to get my first dose today in a different hospital system.

Yes!!!! They had us sitting in a chair that we stayed in for administration and observation for 15 mins after. Minute 18 as I’m walking to my car I was suddenly intensely dizzy! For a minute I thought I was going to lose consciousness. When I got to my car a leaned the seat back and laid there. I had to stay there for 90 minutes before I was safe enough to drive. I got the vaccine almost 6 hours ago and I still have the dizziness although much less, but also have a massive throbbing headache, tinnitus, myalgia, and fatigue. Luckily I got it after my shift, not before.

Update: add chills to the list.


As I mentioned above, I have a terrible massive headache. My arm doesn’t hurt yet 6 hours in. And it normally hurts for others including flu.

wow
it's so random how some people have no side effects and others are severe.

I wonder what the pathophysiology is that makes one really dizzy.

That timing is very surprising. It suggests to me your reaction was anaphylactoid, rather than humoral immunity mediated. But I'm neither a virologist nor immunologist. Just a simple doc from flyover country.

 

[Apollyon]

That timing is very surprising. It suggests to me your reaction was anaphylactoid, rather than humoral immunity mediated. But I'm neither a virologist nor immunologist. Just a simple doc from flyover country.

You're just a simple man, trying to make your way through the universe?

 

[WilcoWorld]

You're just a simple man, trying to make your way through the universe?

Damnit Jim!

 

[Birdstrike]

You're just a simple man, trying to make your way through the universe?

He's a " s i m p l e . . . . kind of, man!" -Lynyrd Skynyrd

 

[Apollyon]

Damnit Jim!

 

[WilcoWorld]

Danger Will Robinson Crusoe!

 

[Birdstrike]

Its A Twister Crazy GIF - Its A Twister Crazy Insane - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[Backpack234]

Since I'm not anonymous on my social media I figure I can say this here. Does anyone actually think that posting "i got this vaccine bc..."
on their facebook is going to change anyones mind? or accomplish anything other than a big circle of "congratulations" and "wow youre so amazing" from their facebook friends who all believe the same thing?

rather than bragging about how your life gets to return to normal it’d be cool if you acknowledged those who still don’t have access to the vaccine and still have high exposure to covid. F

 

[thegenius]

Since I'm not anonymous on my social media I figure I can say this here. Does anyone actually think that posting "i got this vaccine bc..."
on their facebook is going to change anyones mind? or accomplish anything other than a big circle of "congratulations" and "wow youre so amazing" from their facebook friends who all believe the same thing?

rather than bragging about how your life gets to return to normal it’d be cool if you acknowledged those who still don’t have access to the vaccine and still have high exposure to covid. F

Tiny issue

 

[WilcoWorld]

Does anyone actually think that posting ANYTHING on their facebook is going to change anyones mind? or accomplish anything other than a big circle of "congratulations" and "wow youre so amazing" from their facebook friends who all believe the same thing?

Fixed it for you 😉

And my answer is "no"

 

[Angry Birds]

oh I don’t know. For the duration of the study, which might be 3 or 4 months so far but I don’t know. They real question is how long this immunity lasts...and I bet those who participated in the initial study will be getting their blood drawn every month or so measuring antibody titers and seeing If they get infected.

Sorry I meant I got the shot yesterday. Does it take a few days for it to confer full immunity that it will offer me?

 

[GeneralVeers]

They are not acceptable solutions. I'm not sure I see the connection from that to the vaccine, though.

I was making a joke about potential side effects and mind control. I forgot the laughing emoji.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Sorry I meant I got the shot yesterday. Does it take a few days for it to confer full immunity that it will offer me?

Yes, I'm spitballing 1-2 weeks

 

[WheezyBaby]

Since I'm not anonymous on my social media I figure I can say this here. Does anyone actually think that posting "i got this vaccine bc..."
on their facebook is going to change anyones mind? or accomplish anything other than a big circle of "congratulations" and "wow youre so amazing" from their facebook friends who all believe the same thing?

rather than bragging about how your life gets to return to normal it’d be cool if you acknowledged those who still don’t have access to the vaccine and still have high exposure to covid. F

I'm not one of the people to do this, but I think there's certainly some hesitancy among those who traditionally vaccinate about a "rushed vaccine" that can be mitigated by a visible presence of HCPs and others vaccinating.

 

[thegenius]

Sorry I meant I got the shot yesterday. Does it take a few days for it to confer full immunity that it will offer me?

Probably longer...I think @Birdstrike posted more detail about it above. The results were in the paper and I haven't read it yet. I think by the time people got the second dose, which is 17-21 days after the first, it was 80% effective?

 

[AMEHigh]

Since I'm not anonymous on my social media I figure I can say this here. Does anyone actually think that posting "i got this vaccine bc..."
on their facebook is going to change anyones mind? or accomplish anything other than a big circle of "congratulations" and "wow youre so amazing" from their facebook friends who all believe the same thing?

rather than bragging about how your life gets to return to normal it’d be cool if you acknowledged those who still don’t have access to the vaccine and still have high exposure to covid. F

I’m not on Facebook but I am on twitter and there has been some positive dialogue. Especially with people who are pregnant posting that they got vaccinated. Obviously there’s no way to follow up with people for sure but I’ve seen more than 1 person say they now were planning to get vaccinated after seeing someone post about it and the discussions that followed.

I haven’t gotten vaccinated yet but I was in a trial and I posted about it and it also lead to some good dialogue. So yes I think posting can lead to some good discussions that can lead to more people getting vaccinated.

I certainly agree with you in regards to the access problem, which I think is a separate issue. I’m sure the poor and people of color will be left behind in getting equitable access to the vaccine once we move on to other stages.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Interesting that "No" got 23% or 42 votes. We should have another survey to see what the reasons are. I'd be very curious.

 

[DoctwoB]

Since I'm not anonymous on my social media I figure I can say this here. Does anyone actually think that posting "i got this vaccine bc..."
on their facebook is going to change anyones mind? or accomplish anything other than a big circle of "congratulations" and "wow youre so amazing" from their facebook friends who all believe the same thing?

rather than bragging about how your life gets to return to normal it’d be cool if you acknowledged those who still don’t have access to the vaccine and still have high exposure to covid. F

Keep in mind like half your Facebook friends are probably MDs. So seeing everyone post their shots is repetitive at best or aggravating at worst if you haven’t been given the opportunity to get yours as well. But remember that most non MDs may have one or 2 doctor friends on Facebook. And seeing that their medically inclined friends are chomping at the bit to get vaccinated might help.

Or whatever, delete your Facebook and you’ll probably be happier.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Keep in mind like half your Facebook friends are probably MDs. So seeing everyone post their shots is repetitive at best or aggravating at worst if you haven’t been given the opportunity to get yours as well. But remember that most non MDs may have one or 2 doctor friends on Facebook. And seeing that their medically inclined friends are chomping at the bit to get vaccinated might help.

Or whatever, delete your Facebook and you’ll probably be happier.

Hopefully the class-action anti-trust lawsuit from 49 states does that for us.

 

[AMEHigh]

Interesting that "No" got 23% or 42 votes. We should have another survey to see what the reasons are. I'd be very curious.

Agreed.
I asked a couple pages back if people were specifically concerned about Pfizer and moderna or if they’d be open to any other vaccine or what their reasoning is. But no one responded, so who knows, would be interesting to know.

 

[BAM!]

Agreed.
I asked a couple pages back if people were specifically concerned about Pfizer and moderna or if they’d be open to any other vaccine or what their reasoning is. But no one responded, so who knows, would be interesting to know.

Here are some factors I believe people have concerns about, off the top of my head.

We have no data on long term side effects. Are there autoimmune issues?
In the NEJM article they followed 8k of the 40k with a symptom diary. Not sure why now everyone? out of convenience? I suppose this is enough.
Do we trust industry sponsored data? Pfizer and Moderna have a lot riding on this.
What's in this 'proprietary' nanolipid formula. Will this cause long term side effects?

Overall, I think these risks of long term side effects are born purely out of caution. I can't think of any reasonable reason not to get it except that it is still in the 'unknown' category. Given its reported effectiveness, I got mine this morning.

 

[sunshinefl]

At 72 hours, I am pretty much recovered from all my post-vaccination symptoms.

 

[Spikebd]

Interesting that "No" got 23% or 42 votes. We should have another survey to see what the reasons are. I'd be very curious.

The novelty of an mRNA vaccine is exciting but it is entirely reasonable not to want to be first in line. These are the first vaccines using mRNA authorized in the USA. Add in the knowledge that the process was performed at warp speed (approved in less than a year, so no long term safety data or data on fertility, pregnancy, autoimmune, or other unforeseen complications is currently available) and it adds another reason for hesitation for some physician demographics. Learning the story about the Sanofi Pastuer
vaccine and the awful controversy in the Philippines, where many Filipino children died, has also forced many of us to reconsider the ethics of the multi billion dollar pharmaceutical industry. Especially when those same multi billion dollar corporations are immune from any legal action related to the vaccine. I already mentioned the Purdue pharmaceutical scandal and OxyContin, so we know pharmaceutical companies are not anywhere near as altruistic as we physicians are may naively project onto everybody else.

Younger, healthier, physicians who desire offspring then weigh these factors and decide it just isn’t worth it, and may actually be harmful.

EDIT: The Sanofi vaccine is NOT an mRNA vaccine, as was incorrectly stated above.

 

[Birdstrike]

The novelty of an mRNA vaccine is exciting but it is entirely reasonable not to want to be first in line. These are the first vaccines using mRNA authorized in the USA. Add in the knowledge that the process was performed at warp speed (approved in less than a year, so no long term safety data or data on fertility, pregnancy, autoimmune, or other unforeseen complications is currently available) and it adds another reason for hesitation for some physician demographics. Learning the story about the Sanofi Pastuer mRNA vaccine and the awful controversy in the Philippines, where many Filipino children died, has also forced many of us to reconsider the ethics of the multi billion dollar pharmaceutical industry. Especially when those same multi billion dollar corporations are immune from any legal action related to the vaccine. I already mentioned the Purdue pharmaceutical scandal and OxyContin, so we know pharmaceutical companies are not anywhere near as altruistic as we physicians are may naively project onto everybody else.

Younger, healthier, physicians who desire offspring then weigh these factors and decide it just isn’t worth it, and may actually be harmful.

What "Sanofi Pasteur mRNA vaccine" in the Philippines are you referring to? Because I just looked this up and all I'm finding is information on a live (not mRNA) vaccine in the Philippines from Sanofi Co. that itself isn't harmful, but makes kids have more severe cases of Dengue fever.