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GassYous

GassYous

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So my friend recommended bourdeaux wine to me and said that as the wine gets more expensive the quality gets better up to around $100. So I went out and got a hundred dollar bottle that the employees recommended and it was not as good as the cheap stuff we usually get. Any recommendations?
 
For a good Bordeaux that's the least I'd spend. Last bottle we had that was really good was around $150. And I've had ones closer to $250 that were just excellent.

But you can't go by price alone. Learn about how wines are "ranked" in France. That'll help.
 
GassYous said:
So my friend recommended bourdeaux wine to me and said that as the wine gets more expensive the quality gets better up to around $100. So I went out and got a hundred dollar bottle that the employees recommended and it was not as good as the cheap stuff we usually get. Any recommendations?
Click to expand...

Here in America when we're talking about the average "good" red wine, we're talking about a cabernet from a quality producer in California that's bold, i.e. oaky, tannic, relatively high in alcohol, low acidity, and with a lot of fruit flavors and aromas.

Bordeaux, and the cabernet it contains, on average, is lower in alcohol, higher in acidity, less fruit forward, and has a lot of minerality. When most of us drink Bordeaux after drinking standard Napa Valley wine all our lives, it tastes and smells weird and flat.

You could probably spend $1k on a good Bordeaux and you wouldn't like it if you didn't know what you should be expecting.
 
Danger. Once you start drinking better alcohol, it's hard to go back. Good Bordeaux is awesome but pricey. If you want to stick with France, for a better value check out Cote du Rhone. If you ever take a serious food/wine trip to France, you will be blown away by $20 bottles of wine that you just can't get here.
 
This is a slippery slope as you get numb to high prices pretty quickly. But it can be really fun to try to taste wine and you can learn the basics of it with just a little bit of effort.

+1 for Cote du Rhone, they’re pretty strong and some smell like bacon! But I agree it’s difficult to get unless you have access to a rare wine dealer. Aged Burgundy is my favorite but that gets expensive quick. Good Bordeaux is probably too expensive to ever get a real feel for as an anesthesiologist…

Italian wines can be excellent as well. Brunello under $100 tastes great and pairs with lots of good dishes. Barolo is superb but as expensive as the best French wines.

For everyday drinking Costco has good bargains on domestic high end and cheap wines. You can get a lot of the well-known Napa and Sonoma brands there if you want to try a range of grapes or regions in one sitting and it won’t cost a bundle.
 
ambiturner said:
Italian wines can be excellent as well. Brunello under $100 tastes great and pairs with lots of good dishes. Barolo is superb but as expensive as the best French wines.

For everyday drinking Costco has good bargains on domestic high end and cheap wines. You can get a lot of the well-known Napa and Sonoma brands there if you want to try a range of grapes or regions in one sitting and it won’t cost a bundle.
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Most definitely.
 
GassYous said:
So my friend recommended bourdeaux wine to me and said that as the wine gets more expensive the quality gets better up to around $100. So I went out and got a hundred dollar bottle that the employees recommended and it was not as good as the cheap stuff we usually get. Any recommendations?
Click to expand...
This is honestly the worst thread on wine I've ever read, y'all.

If you're new to wine, definitely do not drink anything over $15-20/bottle until you know what you like. That might be a region, a country, a varietal, a given winery, etc etc. For example, I love Priorat, and Dry Creek Valley Zinfandel, and Napa Valley Cabernet, but basically I only routinely drink some Piedmontese wines and Rioja ($15-40 will be excellent).

If you don't know how to properly taste wine, read or YouTube how to do so.

Price vs quality (ie value) is really all over the place for wine. Especially in the $30-80 range, IMO. But most importantly, you might like something cheap or unusual, and so spending big $$$ for "supposed to be good wine" is folly.

I would be remiss to skip over food pairings and set/setting which have at least as much to do with the wine experience as the wine itself.
 
i get worse hangovers with cheaper american wine vs french...must be preservatives. 2 glasses cause pain.
 
fakin' the funk said:
This is honestly the worst thread on wine I've ever read, y'all.

If you're new to wine, definitely do not drink anything over $15-20/bottle until you know what you like. That might be a region, a country, a varietal, a given winery, etc etc. For example, I love Priorat, and Dry Creek Valley Zinfandel, and Napa Valley Cabernet, but basically I only routinely drink some Piedmontese wines and Rioja ($15-40 will be excellent).

If you don't know how to properly taste wine, read or YouTube how to do so.

Price vs quality (ie value) is really all over the place for wine. Especially in the $30-80 range, IMO. But most importantly, you might like something cheap or unusual, and so spending big $$$ for "supposed to be good wine" is folly.

I would be remiss to skip over food pairings and set/setting which have at least as much to do with the wine experience as the wine itself.
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I don't know anything about wine man that's why I'm here

You should see how little I know about guns
 
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GassYous said:
I don't know anything about wine man that's why I'm here

You should see how little I know about guns
Click to expand...
Then don't pay more than 50$ for a bottle. A lot of marketing comes into wine prices and finding a difference between a 50 vs 200$ bottle is very hard, even impossible for a neophyte.
 
I drink a lot of wine and was really excited to see this thread. Maybe, like numerous gun and whiskey threads before it, we'll have a longer-term, ongoing back and forth about wines we try and like. I'll echo what a lot of posters have said so far: the relationship between price and quality is not linear (above a certain threshold, anyway), and "quality" is not at all the same as "do I like it?"

There is definitely a class of wine that is made in bulk, not aged in barrels, and adulterated with chemicals to give it specific colors, aromas, and flavors. These are generally in the <$10 range and should be avoided. Whether they "taste good" or not, these are of poor quality and don't reflect what I think is the true joy of wine: an agricultural product that is nurtured and created, a blend of sun, time, and whatever you're feeling at the time you drink it.

Getting past that class of wine, there is a whole world of styles, prices, and tastes, and a general rule is if you like it, it's good. Some regions, like bordeaux, have rating systems that have been in place so long they probably mean very little, but the higher ratings definitely mean higher prices. There are MANY bordeaux makers that either were not around in 1855 when the classification system was created (and not since changed!), or just haven't gotten on the radar of critics, that are excellent. I drank a $16 bordeaux last night that was really beautiful, and I buy from a "fifth-growth" (the lowest of the left bank grand cru ranks) for $189 that are easily as good as the "first-growths" at 1/10 the price.

It is also true that Napa cabs, over time, have become a little more like bordeaux (austere, mineral, savory), while bordeaux wines have become a little more like Napa (bigger, fruitier). Someone mentioned Cote du Rhone, and I couldn't agree more. For the price, southern rhone is a hotbed of big, bold, flavorful wines, but I disagree that you can't find them. On wine.com, right now, I see several bottles under $30 that I know to be good based on my own experience, or having had other things from those makers. Guigal doesn't make a bad wine, the family Perrin is reliably great, vieux telegraph... Rhone is also the region most like how the US regions are defined: Napa as a region, with specific appellations within it (e.g., Oakville, rutherford, coombsville, etc) , so it's a little easier than, say, with burgundy or bordeaux, to know what you're really getting (e.g., you can buy cote du rhone, sourced from a large area, or appellation-specific wines like Gigondas, Chateauneuf du pape, etc, which will cost more).

Rioja is also a tremendous value proposition for big, bold flavorful wines. I'd add that the spanish tradition is to bottle-age their wines longer before releasing, so whereas you're seeing 2018s from CA right now, Rioja is mostly releasing 2012s now. The result is you get aged wine at a better price because, for whatever reason, the market has decided that it doesn't want to pay french prices for spanish wine. Racist, perhaps, but... Rioja also has a simple rating system. "rioja" is the least-barrel-aged, crianza next, then reserva, then gran reserva.

CA, generally speaking, is really expensive. Some of it is outstanding, but I definitely think it's easier to find great wine at low prices in the regions I mentioned above compared to CA.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing what else pops up on this thread!
 
cchoukal said:
I drink a lot of wine and was really excited to see this thread. Maybe, like numerous gun and whiskey threads before it, we'll have a longer-term, ongoing back and forth about wines we try and like. I'll echo what a lot of posters have said so far: the relationship between price and quality is not linear (above a certain threshold, anyway), and "quality" is not at all the same as "do I like it?"

There is definitely a class of wine that is made in bulk, not aged in barrels, and adulterated with chemicals to give it specific colors, aromas, and flavors. These are generally in the <$10 range and should be avoided. Whether they "taste good" or not, these are of poor quality and don't reflect what I think is the true joy of wine: an agricultural product that is nurtured and created, a blend of sun, time, and whatever you're feeling at the time you drink it.

Getting past that class of wine, there is a whole world of styles, prices, and tastes, and a general rule is if you like it, it's good. Some regions, like bordeaux, have rating systems that have been in place so long they probably mean very little, but the higher ratings definitely mean higher prices. There are MANY bordeaux makers that either were not around in 1855 when the classification system was created (and not since changed!), or just haven't gotten on the radar of critics, that are excellent. I drank a $16 bordeaux last night that was really beautiful, and I buy from a "fifth-growth" (the lowest of the left bank grand cru ranks) for $189 that are easily as good as the "first-growths" at 1/10 the price.

It is also true that Napa cabs, over time, have become a little more like bordeaux (austere, mineral, savory), while bordeaux wines have become a little more like Napa (bigger, fruitier). Someone mentioned Cote du Rhone, and I couldn't agree more. For the price, southern rhone is a hotbed of big, bold, flavorful wines, but I disagree that you can't find them. On wine.com, right now, I see several bottles under $30 that I know to be good based on my own experience, or having had other things from those makers. Guigal doesn't make a bad wine, the family Perrin is reliably great, vieux telegraph... Rhone is also the region most like how the US regions are defined: Napa as a region, with specific appellations within it (e.g., Oakville, rutherford, coombsville, etc) , so it's a little easier than, say, with burgundy or bordeaux, to know what you're really getting (e.g., you can buy cote du rhone, sourced from a large area, or appellation-specific wines like Gigondas, Chateauneuf du pape, etc, which will cost more).

Rioja is also a tremendous value proposition for big, bold flavorful wines. I'd add that the spanish tradition is to bottle-age their wines longer before releasing, so whereas you're seeing 2018s from CA right now, Rioja is mostly releasing 2012s now. The result is you get aged wine at a better price because, for whatever reason, the market has decided that it doesn't want to pay french prices for spanish wine. Racist, perhaps, but... Rioja also has a simple rating system. "rioja" is the least-barrel-aged, crianza next, then reserva, then gran reserva.

CA, generally speaking, is really expensive. Some of it is outstanding, but I definitely think it's easier to find great wine at low prices in the regions I mentioned above compared to CA.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing what else pops up on this thread!
Click to expand...
As long as we don't talk about Merlot.
 
cchoukal said:
I drink a lot of wine and was really excited to see this thread. Maybe, like numerous gun and whiskey threads before it, we'll have a longer-term, ongoing back and forth about wines we try and like. I'll echo what a lot of posters have said so far: the relationship between price and quality is not linear (above a certain threshold, anyway), and "quality" is not at all the same as "do I like it?"

There is definitely a class of wine that is made in bulk, not aged in barrels, and adulterated with chemicals to give it specific colors, aromas, and flavors. These are generally in the <$10 range and should be avoided. Whether they "taste good" or not, these are of poor quality and don't reflect what I think is the true joy of wine: an agricultural product that is nurtured and created, a blend of sun, time, and whatever you're feeling at the time you drink it.

Getting past that class of wine, there is a whole world of styles, prices, and tastes, and a general rule is if you like it, it's good. Some regions, like bordeaux, have rating systems that have been in place so long they probably mean very little, but the higher ratings definitely mean higher prices. There are MANY bordeaux makers that either were not around in 1855 when the classification system was created (and not since changed!), or just haven't gotten on the radar of critics, that are excellent. I drank a $16 bordeaux last night that was really beautiful, and I buy from a "fifth-growth" (the lowest of the left bank grand cru ranks) for $189 that are easily as good as the "first-growths" at 1/10 the price.

It is also true that Napa cabs, over time, have become a little more like bordeaux (austere, mineral, savory), while bordeaux wines have become a little more like Napa (bigger, fruitier). Someone mentioned Cote du Rhone, and I couldn't agree more. For the price, southern rhone is a hotbed of big, bold, flavorful wines, but I disagree that you can't find them. On wine.com, right now, I see several bottles under $30 that I know to be good based on my own experience, or having had other things from those makers. Guigal doesn't make a bad wine, the family Perrin is reliably great, vieux telegraph... Rhone is also the region most like how the US regions are defined: Napa as a region, with specific appellations within it (e.g., Oakville, rutherford, coombsville, etc) , so it's a little easier than, say, with burgundy or bordeaux, to know what you're really getting (e.g., you can buy cote du rhone, sourced from a large area, or appellation-specific wines like Gigondas, Chateauneuf du pape, etc, which will cost more).

Rioja is also a tremendous value proposition for big, bold flavorful wines. I'd add that the spanish tradition is to bottle-age their wines longer before releasing, so whereas you're seeing 2018s from CA right now, Rioja is mostly releasing 2012s now. The result is you get aged wine at a better price because, for whatever reason, the market has decided that it doesn't want to pay french prices for spanish wine. Racist, perhaps, but... Rioja also has a simple rating system. "rioja" is the least-barrel-aged, crianza next, then reserva, then gran reserva.

CA, generally speaking, is really expensive. Some of it is outstanding, but I definitely think it's easier to find great wine at low prices in the regions I mentioned above compared to CA.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing what else pops up on this thread!
Click to expand...

Me too. We are planning on going to napa soon and am interested in what people like.
 
I know little about wine but will chime in. One of my favorite reds - chateau pedesclaux pauillac - runs 55-75$ - loved every bottle. So does everyone I’ve served it to.
Sparkling - I love vueve. From California - schramsberg
 
Any recommendations for Pinot Noirs and Cabernets in the $15-20 range ?

That’s what we usually get for dinners with guests. But more often us sitting on the couch watching a movie.
 
GassYous said:
Me too. We are planning on going to napa soon and am interested in what people like.
Click to expand...
Spend some time researching places to eat as well as wineries that you want to visit. Magnificent place for foodies too.

If you are willing to splurge, check out Palmaz for a tour and wines. The owner of the winery invented the coronary stent and applies high tech to wine making. Won't be cheap.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GassYous said:
Me too. We are planning on going to napa soon and am interested in what people like.
Click to expand...
We really enjoyed Stags' Leap (note there is Stag's and Stags'- we preferred Stags' Leap better), Del Dotto (fantastic barrel tasting from their wine cave), and Alpha Omega. If you make it up to Calistoga there is a very cool place called Tank Garage that specializes in blends that we also really enjoyed. It's hard to go wrong with any of them, though.
 
GassYous said:
Me too. We are planning on going to napa soon and am interested in what people like.
Click to expand...
You can Google a list of some of the most common and/or commercial vineyards that people visit but I do recommend hitting Miner and Robert Sinskey when you're there.
 
GassYous said:
We are planning on going to napa soon
Click to expand...

While Napa/Sonoma is certainly a must-do for any serious wine lover, it's become a bit of a caricature of itself. Pretty much the DisneyWorld of wine. I'm gonna put in a plug for Paso Robles as great wine destination, and much mellower, more raw (and less crowded) experience. Still really excellent wines with some amazing blends (Justin Isosceles) and more obscure varietals thrown in. Check out Daou and Justin at least (the stuff they carry at Costco is just their cheap stuff).

You can do yourself a favor and skip Temecula.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GassYous said:
Me too. We are planning on going to napa soon and am interested in what people like.
Click to expand...
Sonoma will likely be better bang for your buck. A little off the beaten path and less crowded. And you can switch over to some really great breweries if you get tired of wine.

Also consider picking up a copy of “wine simple” by Aldo Sohm if you’re looking to learn more about tasting wine/ how it’s produced. He gives brief descriptions with lots of pictures. It gave me a better understanding so I can go out and buy different types of wine and understand what I like/dislike more confidently.

You wanted to drink alcohol and I told you to go read a book- Just what you were looking for, right? 🤣
 
At open bar events, I’ll try the “fancy” wines. I can’t tell a difference, so I don’t pay for the high end stuff. Beer and hard alcohol/whiskey is a different story...

google “blind wine tasting”- even the so called experts can’t tell a difference. Drink what you like, not what people tell you to like.
 
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JoelJoel84 said:
Any recommendations for Pinot Noirs and Cabernets in the $15-20 range ?

That’s what we usually get for dinners with guests. But more often us sitting on the couch watching a movie.
Click to expand...

cchoukal said:
$20 Pinot is tough. Beat bets would be Oregon, though.
Click to expand...
If $15-20 is your range then just drink some La Crema or Meiomi and call it day. Both are perfectly acceptable in that range.

Oregon (esp Willamette Valley) is where some of the finest pinot has come from in recent history, so a small step up is something like Anne Amie in the $25-30 range.

And if you're willing to spend a good bit more more, look at Domaine Serene or Domaine Drouhin.

And then once your pinot habit gets out of control, Google "DRC burgundy" and look at the prices.
 
JoelJoel84 said:
Any recommendations for Pinot Noirs and Cabernets in the $15-20 range ?

That’s what we usually get for dinners with guests. But more often us sitting on the couch watching a movie.
Click to expand...
Long time lurker. But I too recently caught the wine-bug during the pandemic. Thanks to Wine Apps like Last Bottle and WineSpies, I now have 200+ bottles sitting in the basement.

Not too long ago I used to think sub-$20 wines were fine. I was happy drinking my Apothic Reds and Meiomi Pinot Noir. However, after being invited to a couple of dinners where Staglin and Schrader were being served, that changed my mind about wine. My wine palate is still developing, but I am definitely much more snobby about wine now (for better or worse).

Sub-$20 is hard to do, but there are some great wines for $10 more, or at least <$50. Agree that for less pricey Pinots, Oregon (more specifically the Willamette Valley) is a good region to look. "The Wrangler" by Ernest Vineyards runs in the $20 range and I remember it being decent. I think Ken Wright is another Oregon producer of Pinot that is in the <$50 range.

Also agree that Paso Robles has good Cab options for <$50. Daou and Justin were mentioned. Austin Hope might be my favorite <$50 Cab and it's from Paso Robles. Definitely a fruit bomb though.

Bordeaux I don't have much experience with yet. I've tried California Bordeaux blends such as Orin Swift's Papillon and Arietta's Quartet, but limited tasting of actual French Bordeaux.
 
I have been into wine for over 40 years. I would seek out a mentor that would let you taste a variety so see what you like. There are many well made wines that aren't expensive. For good value I would suggest Italy, Portugal and Spain. France has the most expensive top wines but many delicious inexpensive wines. Global warming has brought a lot of excellent inexpensive pinot noir to Germany. Feel to PM with specific questions.
 
Wow. 20$ gets me a better night than any of you i bet.
10 beers nd king louis, sleep like a baby
 
vector2 said:
If $15-20 is your range then just drink some La Crema or Meiomi and call it day. Both are perfectly acceptable in that range.

Oregon (esp Willamette Valley) is where some of the finest pinot has come from in recent history, so a small step up is something like Anne Amie in the $25-30 range.

And if you're willing to spend a good bit more more, look at Domaine Serene or Domaine Drouhin.

And then once your pinot habit gets out of control, Google "DRC burgundy" and look at the prices.
Click to expand...
La Crema's Russian River Valley pinot is our favorite not special occasion wine, can usually get it for $30-35 and its a fair bit better than their Sonoma one.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
La Crema's Russian River Valley pinot is our favorite not special occasion wine, can usually get it for $30-35 and its a fair bit better than their Sonoma one.
Click to expand...
Might I make a suggestion based on your current go to?


1625107308691.png

Inman Family Pinot Noir | Vivino US

Pinot Noir is a Red wine. See reviews and pricing for this wine.
www.vivino.com


Really enjoyed the tasting there when we last visited Sonoma.
 
JoelJoel84 said:
Any recommendations for Pinot Noirs and Cabernets in the $15-20 range ?

That’s what we usually get for dinners with guests. But more often us sitting on the couch watching a movie.
Click to expand...
Give Erath a try in that price range. I liked it better than Meiomi, which other people are recommending.

I'm new to wine and thrilled at all the knowledgeable recommendations I'm seeing here. Can somebody give me recommendations on the best way to order wine? I'm in the desert in the summer, so temperature with shipping is a concern. If I'm to buy in-store, I'm assuming a place like Total Wine can be trusted with their storage and shipping practices to maintain quality, right?
 
+1 on Drouhin. I also like Cristom from the willamette.

but if you’re buying, I’ll take Kistler, Kosta Browne, or Williams-Selyem from the Russian river, or extreme coastal makers like Raen, Flowers, or Fort Ross.

Papillon tastes like Zin to me, which is a disappointment on multiple levels. The best Napa cabs I’ve had at a value have been Antica Antinorhidden ridge, and Nichols.
 
As foe the Napa trip, for you Gas, given what you’ve said about your tastes and experience, I would check out V. Sattui.

Completely unpretentious, and a bit of a circus, but you’d be able to try a huge range of types of wine all at the same time. This allows you to compare and contrast (e.g., do I like zin or cab? Pinot or Syrah?). This is probably more useful than going to a place with 5 different cabs to compare.
 
Drwine said:
I have been into wine for over 40 years. I would seek out a mentor that would let you taste a variety so see what you like. There are many well made wines that aren't expensive. For good value I would suggest Italy, Portugal and Spain. France has the most expensive top wines but many delicious inexpensive wines. Global warming has brought a lot of excellent inexpensive pinot noir to Germany. Feel to PM with specific questions.
Click to expand...

User name checks out.
 
And say what you want about domaine Chandon, but there’s no better start to your day of boozing it up in the valley than a glass of bubbly. Someone mentioned del Dotto, And although they are primarily Cabernet, and quite expensive, the barrel tasting session is actually very interesting and educational. You will try the same juice in a bunch of different barrel formats and see the differences, and similarly you will try different juices from the same barrels and see those differences, also. Lighthearted and unpretentious, as well.
 
cchoukal said:
And say what you want about domaine Chandon, but there’s no better start to your day of boozing it up in the valley than a glass of bubbly. Someone mentioned del Dotto, And although they are primarily Cabernet, and quite expensive, the barrel tasting session is actually very interesting and educational. You will try the same juice in a bunch of different barrel formats and see the differences, and similarly you will try different juices from the same barrels and see those differences, also. Lighthearted and unpretentious, as well.
Click to expand...
Obviously a huge tourist spot but the Chandon tour really was one of my favorites.


My favorite reasonably priced sparkling though is the blanc de noirs from Gloria Ferrer. $20-22 a bottle but drinks like something 5 times the price.
 
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Do some checking for comparison because most are bargains but not all.
If you want a wine BB check out
www.wineberserkers.com

WineBerserkers

Wine discussion forum and online community
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If you want to drink and dine with like minded people:
www.chaineus.org

Food & Wine Gastronomy Society - Chaine des Rotisseurs

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If you might be interested in the Chaine PM me because I am a national officer and can put you in touch with people in your area.
 
vector2 said:
Obviously a huge tourist spot but the Chandon tour really was one of my favorites.


My favorite reasonably priced sparkling though is the blanc de noirs from Gloria Ferrer. $20-22 a bottle but drinks like something 5 times the price.
Click to expand...
I’ll see your Gloria ferrar, and raise you a Roederer Estate. Granted, the Anderson Valley is too far a drive for the casual tourist visiting via the Bay Area…
 
SaltyDog said:
Alright, let’s hear everyone’s best, most-pretentious wine descriptions.
Click to expand...
Back in my single days, I used to take women to this wine bar in the Marina where the descriptions were highly sexualized. Tannins as tight as the buttocks of the Swedish beach volleyball team, or a bouquet, floral like the tan-skinned neck of your one-night stand, and the like. I don't know if it exactly worked as intended, but good for a few laughs.
 
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