Withdrawing from Match

[jupiterianvibe]

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I would complete the psychiatry residency. Psychiatry is a wonderful back-up plan because the income is fair, you can set up anywhere you like, and you can work completely independently without being subject to the vicissitudes of an unfavorable job market.

If you think about it in investment terms, it is a guaranteed 200k per year, at lowest. That is an opportunity that should not be spurned. With that income you can invest heavily, and reap substantial rewards. It keeps the power to invest in your hands. Should you not do residency, your opportunities to invest will be decided by other people. If you do not make a name for yourself, you will end up with nothing.

Burry, for all of the comparisons, is a probably-manic, Aspergers genius who was lucky enough to have a fixation on finance rather than on calendar days, sports stats or something else useless. He is one in seven billion and you are not him.

 

[Perrotfish]

This is so true it's ridiculous. Doctors are scared at even the thought of risk. That's why they're willing to jump through every hoop put in front of them in this crazy training process we have, no matter how absurd it is.

There is risk, and then there is the expected rate of return. Risk is the measurement of the variability in your outcomes. The rate of return is the average of those outcomes.

An example would be investing in Index funds vs investing in a single stock. Both options have the same 7% expected rate of return, but the single stock is the riskier investment. The single stock investor could very easily double his money in a year, or lose everything, while the Index fund Investor will pretty much always get the 7% rate of return.

What the OP doesn't seem to get is that switching from medicine to finance at this point isn't just the riskier decision, it also has a dramatically lower rate of return. He pretty much knows if he goes to residency that medicine will give him 5-10 million of lifetime earnings. Finance could earn much more than that, or much less, but as he is attempting to join a profession that heavily favors Ivy leagure undergraduates, and which he has no experience in or credentials for, the odds are so heavily in favor of failure that the average rate of return is probably below 2 million in lifetime earnings. Its like taking your money out of Index funds and investing in lottery tickets.

If he was a freshman in an Ivy league undergrad it might be different. The significant failure rate in premedicine, paired with a better ability to position himself for finance, could make the rate of return more equivalent between the two choices, with the only real difference being risk. However trading a sure thing for a slim chance isn't just risky, its a flat out bad decision. And its all the worse because the OP has said that he doesn't even dislike medicine.

 

[chipwhitley]

It's not very insightful or visionary to piss away four years of medical school.

It also does not make sense to continue doing something you realized you have no interest in just because you've done four years of med school already. Haven't you heard of sunk costs?

 

[chipwhitley]

There is risk, and then there is the expected rate of return. Risk is the measurement of the variability in your outcomes. The rate of return is the average of those outcomes.

An example would be investing in Index funds vs investing in a single stock. Both options have the same 7% expected rate of return, but the single stock is the riskier investment. The single stock investor could very easily double his money in a year, or lose everything, while the Index fund Investor will pretty much always get the 7% rate of return.

What the OP doesn't seem to get is that switching from medicine to finance at this point isn't just the riskier decision, it also has a dramatically lower rate of return. He pretty much knows if he goes to residency that medicine will give him 5-10 million of lifetime earnings. Finance could earn much more than that, or much less, but as he is attempting to join a profession that heavily favors Ivy leagure undergraduates, and which he has no experience in or credentials for, the odds are so heavily in favor of failure that the average rate of return is probably below 2 million in lifetime earnings. Its like taking your money out of Index funds and investing in lottery tickets.

If he was a freshman in an Ivy league undergrad it might be different. The significant failure rate in premedicine, paired with a better ability to position himself for finance, could make the rate of return more equivalent between the two choices, with the only real difference being risk. However trading a sure thing for a slim chance isn't just risky, its a flat out bad decision. And its all the worse because the OP has said that he doesn't even dislike medicine.

I mean, the numbers might add up, but if you're the one who has to show up every day and work yourself to the bone at a job you hate, do the numbers really matter? There's also a cost associated with unhappiness, not to mention he might just burn out before he gets through residency. Now, the OP hasn't said he dislikes medicine, but maybe he does and doesn't want to admit it here on a forum full of medical students and doctors. If he does, I would encourage him to pursue the job he can actually give his best at. If he sticks around in medicine and is constantly disappointed that he can't do the job he really wants to do, I think his performance and earning ability will likely suffer, not to mention he'll be mentally unhappy. Medicine isn't a job where you can just show up and zone out/go numb if you hate it, like packing boxes or stocking shelves.

 

[chipwhitley]

While is is true we're a risk-averse crowd (you kinda should be given the stakes we work with), your 3rd sentence has no bearing on that. NOT jumping through the hoops of residency is just stupid, not risky.

It's certainly stupid if your aim is to practice clinical medicine. If your aim is to become an investment banker, it seems a bit less stupid, doesn't it? Risky, yes, because you won't have a clinical job to fall back on if your investing career doesn't work out - but not stupid.

 

[Goro]

Bailing on med school after 1 year? Smart.

Bailing after 4 years?
Foolish.

It also does not make sense to continue doing something you realized you have no interest in just because you've done four years of med school already. Haven't you heard of sunk costs?

 

[chipwhitley]

Bailing on med school after 1 year? Smart.

Bailing after 4 years?
Foolish.

Funny, almost every person on here who asks if they should bail after year 1 or 2 is told to "at least finish the MD". I am one of those people who was told that at least a dozen times. Now you're telling me finishing is foolish?

 

[justadream]

I would complete the psychiatry residency. Psychiatry is a wonderful back-up plan because the income is fair, you can set up anywhere you like, and you can work completely independently without being subject to the vicissitudes of an unfavorable job market.

If you think about it in investment terms, it is a guaranteed 200k per year, at lowest. That is an opportunity that should not be spurned. With that income you can invest heavily, and reap substantial rewards. It keeps the power to invest in your hands. Should you not do residency, your opportunities to invest will be decided by other people. If you do not make a name for yourself, you will end up with nothing.

Burry, for all of the comparisons, is a probably-manic, Aspergers genius who was lucky enough to have a fixation on finance rather than on calendar days, sports stats or something else useless. He is one in seven billion and you are not him.

Genuinely curious about this:

Let's say OP finishes the entire psychiatry residency but decides to leave clinical medicine afterwards.

5 years pass by as OP does stuff on Wall Street. OP wants to come back to medicine. Can OP still practice medicine?

I know you would have to do the renewal board exam (and other continuing education things) but would you be allowed to actually practice after an extended period of NOT practicing?

 

[ACSurgeon]

While is is true we're a risk-averse crowd (you kinda should be given the stakes we work with), your 3rd sentence has no bearing on that. NOT jumping through the hoops of residency is just stupid, not risky.

Risk averse given life and death nature of our work but also given the long path of medical training that is unforgiving and has little room for risky behavior.

 

[Goro]

Better to be 50K in debt than 200K

Funny, almost every person on here who asks if they should bail after year 1 or 2 is told to "at least finish the MD". I am one of those people who was told that at least a dozen times. Now you're telling me finishing is foolish?

 

[chipwhitley]

Genuinely curious about this:

Let's say OP finishes the entire psychiatry residency but decides to leave clinical medicine afterwards.

5 years pass by as OP does stuff on Wall Street. OP wants to come back to medicine. Can OP still practice medicine?

I know you would have to do the renewal board exam (and other continuing education things) but would you be allowed to actually practice after an extended period of NOT practicing?

Yeah I mean if you take the exam and pass, you should be good to practice. The question is who will hire OP if he hasn't practiced at all in 5 years.

 

[chipwhitley]

Better to be 50K in debt than 200K

I'd agree with that, assuming you actually would be 200k in debt. Some people have way less due to parental contributions, etc. In that case, probably better to have an MD degree, rather than be a quitter/drop out.

 

[justadream]

Yeah I mean if you take the exam and pass, you should be good to practice. The question is who will hire OP if he hasn't practiced at all in 5 years.

Well you could open your own practice.

So the state licensing boards (or some other entity like say, insurance companies) would not have a problem with gaps in clinical experience? I was thinking that you would be a huge liability if you were extremely rusty from gaps (especially for procedural things).

 

[chipwhitley]

Well you could open your own practice.

So the state licensing boards (or some other entity like say, insurance companies) would not have a problem with gaps in clinical experience? I was thinking that you would be a huge liability if you were extremely rusty from gaps (especially for procedural things).

I dunno you'd have to look at each state's rules. Insurance companies probably would be more concerned if you hadn't worked in a long time. I've heard of physician re-entry training programs you can go to brush up your skills, like this one - http://www.drexel.edu/medicine/Academics/Continuing-Education/Physician-Refresher-Re-entry-Program/